Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Sue Hammond, Oct 4, 2017.
I've heard of Levimir, my husband used it for his Diabetes
Take heart, Sue ... the learning curve is steep and, as is often said, it's a marathon and not a sprint. You're still early in Molly's treatment. You'll feel much better if you can accept that it's going to take time. There are few blacks and whites and a lot of grays in the decisions you'll learn to make. I've been at it almost 2 years and my kitty still bounces. He's particularly tricky though.
Thanks Kris for your time and patience, should I stick to giving 2u tonight if her numbers go high or go back to 1.5u....I think Molly is going to be one of those difficult cats to treat x
See now she's gone up to 19.0 bg +9....It's surely no good for Molly with numbers up and down like this...I guess I should give 2u again tonight?
I suggest you keep the dose for another couple of cycles. Try not to focus on individual numbers because they'll fluctuate. It's the pattern over time that tells the story. It's almost impossible to find a reason for one number and, short of a very low number, not a good idea to change a dose based on one.
Ok Kris, thank you
She may come down for preshots once she hits used to the lower numbers. Hold the 2 I for a bit longer.
It's still 'early days', Sue.
Some cats respond quickly and become regulated (or even go into remission) fairly early on. Some cats take longer to get regulated (or to go into remission). A minority of cats never get regulated.
But, fortunately, cats can generally tolerate high blood glucose levels much better than humans and dogs. And, even with high blood glucose levels, many will live into old age.
With high blood glucose levels though it is important to test on a regular basis for ketones. And it is especially important to test for ketones if the kitty is off her food or seems unwell in any way.
The ketone test is simple. It just involves dipping a little test strip into cat's pee.
Crumpling clingfilm over the litter tray is often an easy way to get a sample. You only need a couple of drops. 'Ketostix' strips are available from most pharmacies. You're looking for a 'negative' result. Anything above 'trace' is a reason to contact your vet.
Patience is required when dealing with diabetes. It can sometimes take a long time to see results.
It was two years before I saw a significant improvement in my own cat.
In the end it was a change of insulin that worked for us.
A change of insulin can make a huge difference to some cats.
Given that you don't want to use syringes, and want to stick with the Vetpen, that rules out any change of insulin for Molly. So Caninsulin is her only option.
Some cats have done just fine on Caninsulin, and some have gone into remission. But it isn't considered the easiest insulin to work with. That makes it all the more important that you get a basic understanding of how Caninsulin works, and an understanding of the basics of feline diabetes; this will help you to get the best out of this insulin.
Don't worry, you don't need to know everything all at once. All you need is a willingness to learn, and a willingness to put what you learn into practice.
I do suggest you print out this document and read through it, marking anything you consider particularly relevant with a highlighter pen.
Beginner's Guide to Caninsulin (Vetsulin)
When we look at a cat's numbers on their SS we're usually looking for 'patterns', rather than individual numbers. The pattern of numbers shows how the insulin is working in the cat's body.
Ideally, the pattern might show us when the insulin usually starts working, how fast it drops the blood glucose, how low the blood glucose typically drops on a given dose, and how long the insulin lasts in the cat's system.
But patterns aren't always that straightforward. We may see erratic numbers, or high numbers interspersed with sudden lows. Or maybe the cat has a good spell of numbers for a while and then suddenly everything 'goes pear-shaped'.
We don't always know the reasons why a pattern is atypical. But there are some common patterns, such as 'bouncing', that happen time and time again with cats, and so are often reasonably easy to spot.
But sometimes we never know the reason for the numbers. Once we've injected the insulin there are all kinds of factors that affect how the cat's body will respond to that insulin. We might be able to control what the cat eats, and monitor the cat's health to ensure that she is well, but the cat's own body may well have a variable response to any given insulin shot. The amount of insulin that the cat's body will absorb from any given shot will vary, for example. So, we learn what we can. And then we just do our best...
Even when numbers are less than ideal the kitty's health and well-being can still improve once they start on insulin. A cat is far more than just their blood glucose numbers. So it's important to celebrate the good things that happen along the way. I see that you wrote this about Molly...
These are things to celebrate.
Not a good start today's amps in the reds for the first time for almost 6 weeks, 22.2, very dissapointed with that @Elizabeth and Bertie @JanetNJ @Kris & Teasel
(((Sue))), remember it's just one BG number...
If you're going to be disappointed every time you see a high number be aware that you may be setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment....
Breathe... This is 'a marathon, not a sprint'.
It may be that Molly stays in these sorts of numbers but merrily potters along and lives a happy life for years. Molly doesn't know her BG is high. Only you know that. Molly is just 'living her life' and doing normal cat stuff. She's the same cat she always was, and loves you just like she always has....
But hopefully, and with a little luck, those blood glucose numbers will improve. If not though, it's not the end of the world.
There are far worse things to be diagnosed with than diabetes. Diabetes is at least treatable. And even if we can't get the BG into a good range cats still very often have improvements in their health in spite of that.
As I said in the previous post, do remember to celebrate the good things. You'd said...
"...she appears on the outside well, is eating, drinking normally, her coat has improved, the dandruff she had has gone, she's lost the excess weight."
Personally I think the problem is you don't get enough longevity out of this insulin. If that's the case you Can
1. Continue doing what you're doing... Tweaking the dose to at least get it low in the middle and hope eventually those preshots will come down.... It may happen but could be awhile. My cats numbers didn't come down until I was three months in and up to 3 units.
2. Try shooting 3 times a day but this can be a hardship on you... So hard to schedule around. This would keep the levels all lower because it won't have rocketed back up before it's time for the next dose.
3. Insist on a longer acting insulin and give that a try.
I have tried several times to get the insulin changed, but he's still not having it...Injecting 3 times a day isn't a option I'm afraid, Molly's been diagnosed now almost 4 months, so I guess it's still early days, we'll keep going and see how it goes, like I said earlier, on the outside she seems perfectly fine and we've seen several improvements in her outwardly the main thing being her dandruff has gone, coat has improved, and she's not contantly drinking and weeing....My Vet said this can take a very long time to get under control, I just worry that these constant high numbers will eventually do damage inside
I just worry that the constant high numbers will damage her organs like in humans, as is what happened to my hubby, he passed away with organ failure associated with diabetes, I know it's not quite the same, but it worrys me constantly
(((Sue))), in the circumstances your concern is very understandable.
However, diabetes doesn't affect cats the same as it affects humans. Honestly!
But there are still, unfortunately, people who will tell newcomers to feline diabetes that their cats will suffer if they don't get control of the BG levels. I was told this when my cat first became diabetic. And I got PM's from someone telling me I'd be killing my cat if I didn't get him into better numbers. It was very distressing. (I even left this forum for a while because of that, until Diana persuaded me to come back. I think tea and cake were involved.... )
My cat has been now been diabetic for almost 11 years. For a long time he had BG numbers not dissimilar to Molly's. Even so, he's reached the age of 19...
Many cats here on this forum live long lives with diabetes.
The main complication I've seen with feline diabetes (apart from the risk of hypo) is that of ketones and diabetic ketoacidosis. Some cats are prone to ketones, some aren't. That's why we encourage folks to test for it. And some diabetic cats have pancreatitis, which can be tricky to manage.
With good care, and a little bit of luck, there is no reason why diabetes should shorten a cat's life....
I was told the same, by the practice nurse!!!..she said that Molly will become very sick if those numbers stay high..
Her +3 was 15.6
The vet who diagnosed Bertie's diabetes suggested I have him PTS because 'diabetes is so hard to manage in cats'...
If I'd taken that vet's terrible advice Bertie would not have had these 11 years of life.... She knew naff all about feline diabetes....
Many vets' knowledge and experience of feline diabetes is absolutely minimal...
I found this forum, and that pretty much saved Bertie's life....
It's really shocking isn't it... My vet has supposedly studied feline diabetes, but certainly doesn't seem like it..
Those of us who come here and stay are committed to treating FD ourselves because we've recognized the limitations in our vet's knowledge of diabetes treatment. My vet is great and her level of knowledge is better than most but I know a lot more about FD than she does at this point. You have to learn all you can, get help here and trust that you can handle Molly's treatment. My vet has said often the cats generally don't suffer the whole body effects of diabetes to the degree that humans (or dogs) do. They can have neuropathy and might be in danger of developing diabetic ketoacidosis under certain conditions. Hypo is always a possibility. However, monitoring the way we do here is the best way to learn your kitty's responses and prevent complications.
I agree with Sue that one can sometimes be made to feel "less than" in treating our kitty's FD if the SS isn't an ideal array of blues and dark greens. That just isn't realistic for some cats nor is the constant testing, feeding to steer BG, etc. realistic in the long term for the owner. The human needs to find a way to keep the kitty as healthy as possible within the constraints of his/her time, money, other demands in life, etc. After almost 2 years, my cat's SS is far from ideal but he and I are OK. As I say often, I do what's needed to keep him safe and me sane.
I love that reply Kris, I'll continue to care for Molly as best I can, with all your help on this message board, you really do keep me sane,and I really do appreciate all your comments and advice xx
Yes, absolutely, Kris.
Well that's the important thing.... That she's feeling better!
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