Hi from Washington state

I'm Linda (aka Redpenner) from Shelton, WA. Currently Mom to 4 cat kids and found out over the weekend that one of them, Lacey, is diabetic. She hasn't started treatment yet (glucose curve is tomorrow) but my main concern at the moment is the feeding issue in a multi cat household. Looks like there is plenty of good advice on this site. I'm glad I found you!

 

Welcome to the FDMB Linda and extra sweet Lacey!!

One of the best things you can do for Lacey (and your other cats too!) is to get them all onto a low carb canned or raw food. We want to see our diabetics eating under 10% carbs

You don't have to go broke either! Fancy Feast classics, Friskies Pate's and 9-Lives pate's are all under 10% so it's what a lot of us use...especially if we're feeding a herd!

There's a list of a lot of available cat foods and their carb percentages on this Cat Food Chart (Column C)

When we got the diagnosis, I was really lucky....all my cats had no problem at all when I picked up their dry food they'd been eating their entire lives (thinking I was doing good) and plopping down a can of Friskies!! Matter of fact, I got looks like "Where have you been hiding this good stuff all our lives, mom?"

Do you know what insulin they're going to put Lacey on yet? The 3 insulins that work well in cats are Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc.

We're also big advocates of home testing here! There's no better feeling than knowing exactly what's going on inside your cat's body! Knowledge is power against this disease and by home testing, you not only keep your kitty safe, but you know exactly how she's responding to treatment.

Most of us here use the Relion Confirm or Micro meters from WalMart. Pet meters are nice (and you'll hear a lot of vets insist you use them if you're going to home test) but the strips they use are about $1 a piece!! Not many of us can afford that and the protocols we use here are written for human meters anyway

Don't want to overwhelm you! (Too late?....LOL)

Look forward to having you with us and learning all the steps of this new "sugardance"

 

Thanks for the welcome! Lacey is a very special 12-year-old dsh tortie who loves being vacuumed and helping Dad do any kind of mechanical work. Won't know until Tuesday evening or Wednesday what the treatment plan will be. We have been feeding all 4 cats free choice, some friskies canned and unfortunately they have a Party Mix addiction as well. It's going to be a tough switch for them, more than for her. I have read over the links and resources on here and not feeling too reassured, worrying about giving insulin and having her get sick after we go out. I work but Dad is home most of the time. What do people do if they need to go out of town, are there boarding places that will give shots and do the testing?

 

Welcome Linda . I am new here as well . I have two cats . Neither have diabetes but my male is overweight at 19 pounds so I joined this forum to learn all I can to help my boy hopefully prevent diabetes . I know what you mean about the treat addiction . My cats were hooked on Temptations and the best thing for them was quit cold turkey . They are also kibble addicts and it has been tough to get them to eat mostly wet food ( Fancy Feast Classic ) but it does get easier .

 

Hi Linda and Lacey. You can save yourself money to do your own curves at home. We can teach you how to test and do them. Also, if you change your food to lower carb food as Chris suggested, make sure you are testing at home because the blood glucose could drop as much as 100 points from a diet change alone.

 

It does seem overwhelming at first, especially because there is a lot of information here to absorb. Will it help to know that everyone here felt that way at first? And everyone who replies to your post is paying it forward it forward for help they received when new and overwhelmed.

The good news is that Feline Diabetes is a "doable" disease. You can all the treatment at home, just like humans do, and unlike humans, cats can and do go into remission. The most important things for you are to make that little diet change (glad they are already used to some wet!). Here is an excellent website written by a vet about food and FD: www.catinfo.org. We all test at home. We have found that since most cats are stressed at the vet and stress raises blood glucose levels, we can get more accurate numbers at home. It is cheap, fairly easy after your cat and you get it down and easy to send to the vet. And we do suggest a mild long lasting insulin like Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc, started at a low dose (usually one unit twice daily) and increased slowly, as your testing indicates.

Let us know how we can help, keep reading and Welcome!

 

Welcome Linda and Lacey! My hubby and I went away for 5 days last month, and we took our sugarkitty Ivana with us (we'd booked the holiday before her diagnosis). However, we're also going away for 1 or 2 nights next month and can't take her with us, so will be boarding her at the vet. Well I hope so, haven't actually asked the vet yet! It's certainly doable and you don't have to never leave the house again, it just takes a little more planning to holiday when you have an extra sweet family member.

 

Hello, and welcome, Linda and Lacey! It may seem daunting and overwhelming at first, but trust me, you will learn very quickly. There is a wealth of information to be found here, and everybody is always ready and willing to help.

Please do get a glucometer and start learning how to test at home. It really is a vital part of treating a diabetic kitty. It's much easier to do than you are probably imagining, lol, and we can help you with it.

I have four cats, my diabetic is the oldest at 17 and has been a devoted free-feeding, dry food junkie all his life. I would never have thought I could ever get him to eat a canned food/frozen raw diet, but he made the switch with very little complaint, much to my amazement! The other three also eat low carb canned mixed with frozen raw, so food theft doesn't create problems, lol, except for my IBD kitty (but that's a whole other story). They were all also huge fans of all sorts of high carb treats. Now they get Pure Bites dehydrated meat treats and they're crazy about them! And now a word of warning; if you switch Lacey to an all canned, low carb diet, you need to do so gradually, and you must be home testing or you risk hypoglycemia! Cats' blood glucose can drop as much as 100 points or more when transitioned to a low carb diet so you need to monitor very closely and be prepared to make any necessary dose changes indicated. I'm not trying to scare you, just making sure you have the information you'll need!

When you go away, would it be possible to get someone you know to be a kitty-sitter for you? That would cause much less stress on Lacey, and be a lot more comfortable than a boarding facility. I have trained both of my sons to test and administer insulin, in case I am not home (I am disabled and end up in the hospital from time to time, and I never know how long I will be there).

Last but not least, never be afraid to ask questions or post for help!

Lucy

 

Thanks everybody for the reassuring words. We took Lacey for her curve today but while she was reportedly very friendly and sociable, she refused to eat. They tested her bg anyway but we have to take her back on Thursday after feeding her first at home. Meanwhile they want her eating w/d food and gave us some insulin to give her tomorrow. Her bg was over 400 today. She seems to like the w/d dry food but even after eating nothing all day she wouldn't touch the canned.

 

Sounds like your vet has drunk the Hills Science Diet salesman's Kool-Aid. Vets only get a few hours of education on nutrition in school and pretty much the rest of their education comes from the prescription food industry salespeople. Here's a great article on The truth about prescription foods

W/D canned is about 25% carbs and the dry is even higher!!....and if you look at the ingredients, you'll see "powdered cellulose"...that's a fancy word for sawdust!

Lacey will respond much better if she's on a low carb diet....Just like humans shouldn't eat potato chips and cake, our cats need to be on a low carb diet too. If she'll eat Friskies pate's, she's much better off eating those! The pate's are all less than 10% carbs (except for the Mixed Grill that's 11%)

Feeding a high carb food while trying to get blood glucose numbers down is like trying to put a fire out with gasoline...just doesn't work!

What kind of insulin have they started her on?

 

The stuff they gave us for tomorrow is PZI.

 

Welcome to FDMB! You have come to the right place for support. There are a lot of caring and experience folks here. You will be given a whole lot of information and at first, it will seem very overwhelming however in a couple of weeks, things will start falling into place. I giving you some of the same information that you have already received however I think that you cannot get enough even though it is the same thing.

Regarding your vet giving their expensive, high carb food - take it back. I understand that if you tell them that your kitty will not eat it, they should refund you. I sure wish vets would quit selling that food without doing the research. Anyway, I have four cats. Previously on dry food and they are all switched over to 4% carb wet food. They love it too. If you have trouble switching over all your cats, post and we have tricks for you.

Good Reading: This is a must read. It is an excellent 18 page informative document that covers feline health and nutrition. Don't take short cuts and read it all. www.catinfo.org Also read other postings and their spreadsheets. You will learn a lot more from others.

Home Testing: Here, we all home test. It is mandatory to understand how your kitty is reacting to the insulin and the dose. You will want to test before each shot and some additional test in between the 12 hour cycle. Another reason to home test is to keep your kitty safe. Find a place in your home where you will always perform the test and give lots of hugs before and after testing. There are many videos showing you how to test. Hometesting Links and TipsHere is a picture of where you test on your kitty. http://s106.photobucket.com/user/chupie_2006/media/testingear/sweetspot.jpg.html

Here is another good link on Home Testing:http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-home-test.htm

Meters: There are many meters. There is a pet meter called the Alpha Trak2 and human meters. Some use the pet meter because it is what the vets use so the numbers will match up. The meter and strips are expensive though ($1 per strip). Most use human meters that can be purchased at any pharmacy. It typically reads a little lower than the pet meter but we have ways of compensating those lower numbers. Many use Walmart's brand, Relion Micro, Relion Prime or Relion Confirm (Micro/Confirm meters use less blood but it's strips are a little more expensive than Prime strips), because it only needs a tiny drop of blood. They cost around $15 and the strips are around 35 cents each.

Lancets: These are used to poke the ear to get blood. There are many different sizes (gauges). It is recommended when you are first starting out to use a 26-28 gauge. Also, it would be a good idea to pick up Neosporin WITH pain reliever to apply on the edge of the ears and don't forget to alternate ears.

Spreadsheets: Our spreadsheet instructions are here. If you look at the signatures of the members here, you will see a link to their kitty’s spreadsheets. We keep track of all our tests. This is basically a place to collect data and help you to determine patterns, doses, etc. It also aids those that may be helping you to better understand your kitty.

Food: There are many reasons why we are here but one is due to feeding dry cat food which is high in carbs. You will want to consider changing your food to wet, low carb food. It is recommended to feed food that is under 10% carbs. Here is a list of cat food to choose from food chartyou will note that the food with fish are lower in carbs however it is recommended that you only give fish once a week due to its mercury content. Many use Fancy Feast, 9 Lives, Friskies, etc. This list can also be found in www.catinfo.org If you are already giving insulin and you have not transitioned to wet, low carb cat food, be sure to test while you are transitioning. This is because by changing to low carb food, it could decrease your kitty’s number by 100 points or more. One last thing, many of us add water to the wet food so your kitty is getting plenty of water to flush out the toxins and to keep them hydrated.

Hypo Kit: Always good to be prepared for possible hypo events which means that your cat has reached dangerously low numbers. It can be fatal, hence, the importance of home testing and collecting data in a spreadsheet. In each of the Insulin Forums are stickie’s labeled Hypo Links. Here is one: How to Handle a Hypo. Please print and post on your refrigerator so everyone in your household is aware of hypo symptoms. You will want to create your hypo kit that would include and not limited to; extra testing strips, honey/karo/maple syrup, high carb food, medium carb food, vet information, etc.

Ketones: Diabetic cats are susceptible to diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA). It is best to buy testing strips that will measure (if any) ketones in the urine. One brand is Ketostix which can be found at Walmart or any pharmacy. You will want to test periodically unless you continue to get high numbers, then it is suggested to test more frequently. Ketostix typically costs around $10.

Treats: It is always nice to have treats available for your kitty especially when testing or when they decide not to eat. I like using Pure Bites. I have found it at Petsmart and other pet stores. It is freeze dried and the only ingredient is the meat i.e. chicken, duck, etc. If your cat likes it, then I would go to the dog section where it is cheaper than the cat package. It is bigger chunks but no problem in breaking it up. Another option is to use Bonita Flakes. There is a link here somewhere that has a list of low carb treats but I don't have it right now.

Injections: Most folks here use one of these main insulins; Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc. Glad that your vet gave you Prozinc. Two hours prior to your insulin shot, you will not want your kitty to eat. Then you will test and then feed. It is best for your kitty to eat a little before your shoot. I shoot while he is eating. The reason why you do not want your kitty to eat two hours prior to your test is because food elevates BG numbers. So you do not want to dose based on a food influenced number. Here is a link on how to give injections.http://www.felinediabetes.com/injections.htm

 

PZI is a mild, long lasting insulin. I hope they start on a low dose, letting you increase carefully based on your at home testing. We put together a protocol for it; it's in my signature in blue.

I agree that the WD is really high in carbs - like a human eating donuts daily and adjusting his insulin dose upward to compensate. If she really won't eat wet, there are lower dry foods. And Stella and Chewy's has a commercial raw food that is like the dry texture but low carb.

But, if she were mine, I'd work on the wet first. The vet on www.catinfo.org explains how dehydrating dry is and why cats, who are carnivores, need meats, not carbs. She also has some good ideas for switching over reluctant eaters. Some of mine include: adding some warm water to the pate and making a gravy. (Sometimes it's the texture they don't like). Adding some Parmesan cheese or tuna juice to it or "dressing" it with a favorite low carb treat or some of the dry crushed up. One of her tips is to dress it with FortiFlora. That's a probiotic (so good for her anyway) that has the animal digest that makes dry food so irresistible. You sprinkle in on the wet. We were lucky. Oliver was happy to switch and his levels plunged overnight by 100 points.

So be sure you are confident home testing before switching. If we'd given Oliver his usual dose that morning, he would have dropped too low.

I know we are throwing a lot of information at you. It's partly because we care about cats and know that diet change, hometesting and a good insulin works. And it's partly because we arrived here overwhelmed and confused and others helped us get our cats happy and healthy again. Some were even able to get into remission like mine. It doesn't happen for every cat but it does for lots of cats here.

Some of the best advice I got early on was to breathe. Amazing how you forget to do that on a regular basis when you are worried.

 

Welcome to the message board, the best place you never wanted to be.

There are 4 things you'll need to manage your kitty's diabetes:
- You - without your commitment, the following won't work.
- Home blood glucose monitoring with an inexpensive human glucometer such as the WalMart Relion Confirm or Target Up and Up (the pet ones will break your budget!). This saves you the cost of going to the vet for curves and done regularly, removes the need for a fructosamine test. All of our insulin guidelines use human glucometer numbers for reference.
- Low carb over the counter canned or raw diet, such as many Friskies pates. See Cat Info for more info. If already on insulin, you must be home testing before changing the diet. Food changes should be gradual to avoid GI upsets - 20-25% different food each day until switched. There are 2 low carb, dry, over the counter foods in the US - Evo Cat and Kitten dry found at pet specialty stores and Young Again 0 Carb found online.
- A long-lasting insulin such as ProZinc, Lantus, BCP PZI, or Levemir. No insulin lasts 24 hours in the cat, so giving it every 12 hours is optimal for control.

 

Hi - internet is finally back up, so I can respond by keyboard (hate typing on my phone!) and print out some of these great resources!

The dose they gave us for today of PZI was just 1 unit every 12 hours. We did feed her, wait 10 minutes, then the shot, and she took the shot very well. She's been a little more alert today but still sleeping quite a bit. Lacey does normally like some Friskies wet food, just have to transition her from "shreds with gravy" to pate, but that shouldn't be a problem. She also loves 9-Lives Tuna & Egg every now and then. She has snacked a bit on the w/d dry food. One of our other cats (20 lbs but not diabetic...yet) likes the w/d canned and we only bought 2 cans anyway, so no problem there, she will eat it up.

Which brings me to the biggest complication...multi cats. All 4 have been used to eating "free choice", with a half can of wet food in the AM and/or PM and plenty of "treats" when they request them throughout the day. But they don't (and won't) eat at the same time, so the plates of canned food stay down for quite a while and they "graze". Nonetheless we will have to get all 4 off the treats and onto twice-a-day feeding of canned food. They like the "shreds with gravy" but can learn to like pate. Unfortunately I think my husband's idea is to keep giving them treats and give Lacey the w/d dry for a treat. (The freeze-dried meat treats are way too expensive for 4 cats and if she's getting them, they will all want them.) My husband is home all day, and I'm not, so whatever he wants to do is probably what will happen. I also don't think he's too interested in frequent testing, either, and to be honest, that's the part of this that I don't feel comfortable doing. The insulin shots don't bother her at all, but the testing sticks definitely will, and he has trouble catching her if she doesn't want to do something (he uses a wheelchair). But since she won't eat at the vet's office, doing regular curves there might not even be an option.

We still haven't talked to the actual vet, just the front desk staff, and as noted above she hasn't had her first curve done yet, so I don't know what dosing and timing we will be looking at.

Forgot to mention, the vet assistants said the w/d was formulated for slower and more consistent carb metabolism and that's why they wanted her on it instead of just a low carb alternative like Friskies or Fancy Feast pate.

 

Its still too high in carbs. Cats are obligate carnivores and do not require grains, legumes, root vegetables, nor fruit in their diet. Feeding that ensures your cat will remain on insulin. Feeding low carb Friskies, or Fancy Feast Classics, and carefully monitoring gives your cat a chance at getting off insulin and becoming diet controlled.

Also, there is nothing in the W/D that requires a prescription. Its just marketing.

 

That's what I figured - just wondered what the response would be to that argument

 

That's a new one on me, I've never heard that before, lol. I know your vet means well, and wants to help you do the best you can for Lacey, but Hill's w/d is not going to help her. It is not a good food and it will keep her BG raised, it has some of the highest carbs of any of the foods available! Please consider changing to a better food for Lacey!

 

Treats. I buy the dog sized bag of PureBites. Same thing, much cheaper. I just have to crush them up a little. Some people buy a bag of chicken breasts and bake them, without the skin or spices. Then chop them up into bite sized pieces and store in a bag in the freezer. Take them out as you need them. Most cats like chicken. It makes for a cheap treat.

Maybe have your hubby read some of the info here. The thread on hometesting has great info. So does catinfo.org. Sometimes the guys get into the science of the whole thing - watching the actual levels go down can be empowering and interesting. And then share the hypo thread. They are so small and getting such a small amount of insulin. If they get too much for the level they are at, they can go down very fast, suffer seizures and frankly, die before you can get them to the vet. The most important part of testing is keeping them safe. You can always find out, with a quick poke, if they are too high and acting strange or too low and acting strange. No guessing, no worrying.

 

I have the links ready for him when he's ready to listen. He is NIDDM himself with poor testing compliance

 

Please stress to him how detrimental, and potentially dangerous, it is to Lacey to not test, and to not feed approprite foods! I'm sure he would feel terrible if anything bad happened to her on his watch, and it's so easy to avoid situations like that with a simple, quick test! And yes, it CAN mean the difference between life and death. Fingers and paws crossed that you can get him to realize the seriousness of this!