Humulin

My cat Blue has had diabetes for 1 1/2 yrs. He originally was given Vetsulin, then I changed vets and he was given PZI (which he did well on). Recently, the same vet switched him to Vetsulin because I am a single mom and have trouble affording the PZI (very expensive). He has not done well on Vetsulin and my vet never told me about the recall! The vial had alot of white suspension, even when "rolled to mix". Today, I ordered Humulin (human insulin) from pet.meds.com to try it. It is more affordable and I don't need a prescription to get it. I know to use the u-100 needles rather than the u-40 used with Vetsulin. I have them left over from when my cat was on PZI. Here is my query: Has anyone out there used Humulin with any success? If Blue doesn't do better on Humulin, I will be returning to PZI, eventhough it hurts money-wise. Also, my vet said he could not get "PZI" anymore, only a generic form, and I'll tell you, it didn't work as well. I can tell just by looking at Blue's coat...it is smooth and soft when his diabetes is under control, but gets greasy-looking and choppy when it is out-of-control. Any thoughts?

thanks...suite

 

I can't answer any of your question except about the insulin needles. There is a conversion chart here
http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

Connie

 

You can't convert, you need U100 needles for humulin insulin. I assume Humulin N?

As I said in your earlier post:

But meanwhile...humulin N is not a great substitute as it is even shorter acting than vetsulin. I understand that the cost is a factor but if your cat doesn't do well on it then you may have increased vet costs, etc. Your better bet is either the BCP PZI (still being made), the new Prozinc PZI or lantus/glargine or levemir. They are more expensive but if your cat is healthier then you are likely better off.

yes, condition of your cat's fur/skin is an indication of regulation, but a much safer way to do it is hometesting with a glucometer just like human diabetics do. Please, read the faq at http://binkyspage.tripod.com/ and come on back with more info and questions

 

Hi I haven't used humulin N , as I used Lantus and would highly recommend that insulin (Lantus or Levimer) to anyone.

Humulin N is a short acting insulin and I don't think there are many people on board here using it. May I suggest you check out the Insulin Support Group Forum For Humulin N.
Humulin N Primer.

In addition, may I suggest that you check out the Lantus and Levimer forums. While the initial cost of these two drugs may be more than the others you were using, the actually long term costs comes out the same or even cheaper than the others, given the life span you can get on those.

Lantus Forum

Also, by any chance are you home testing?
What kind of foods are you feeding your cat?

Where are you located?

I'll also send you my welcome pitch in a separate post.

 

I haven't tried Humulin though I believe it is a shorter acting insulin, than PZI. Idexx PZI has been discontinued, however, there are two other options. The first is BCP PZI and your vet can order the first vial for you for free from their website. The link to the form is at the bottom of this page http://www.bcpvetpharm.com/products_bovine.htm. The other insulin is a new one called ProZinc. I haven't used ProZinc, but my cats have responded well to BCP PZI

 

WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.

Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.

2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.

 

Hi there! Just want to make sure that you are going to use Humulin N, not Humulin R...there is a difference in those two insulins.

BTW, Spot was on N for 7 months and it didn't do much for him. We changed to Lev and 10 months into this dance Spot is doing so much better. It is pretty cost efficent. 5 carts cost me $124 and they will more than likely last me a year...as a matter of fact I got my first five carts in March of 2009, gave one away, and am now on my last cart...so it's pretty much only $10 a month.

Good luck!

 

Dear Deb and Spot:

Is this how I post a reply?! I did order Humulin N...I will try the one vial and then switch to Lev, is it?

suite

 

yes, you did just fine.

Are you hometesting?

 

I'll tell you...my vet wants me to do a BG at her office every few weeks but I can't do it....I have to taxi to and from the office and have to miss work because they have no tech to draw blood on Sat! I have never even known you could test at home...needless to say, my vet never mentioned it! Where is a good place to get a kit? I have read some posts.....looks like you nick the ear for blood? Are the kits expensive?

suite confused_cat

 

Testing at home is easier, less expensive, and the results are more valid. See the faq that I linked you to for more info. We use human glucometers and some are very reasonable including the strips.

edited to add: testing can save your cat's life, it takes the guessing out of dosing, and will reduce your visits to your vet. think of it in human terms; would you inject yourself or your child without testing?

 

Hi there,

If you have decided to try Humulin N, What is the starting dose your vet suggested?
The reason I ask is because some vets initially dose based on weight which often result in too large a starting dose. Like others have mentionned, this is a fast acting insulin so it's always good to "start low and go slow".
If you haven't already, please read the sticky on this insulin to help understand better how it works.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=303

Good luck

 

My Blue was getting 8 units Vetsulin 2x day and was getting worse, not better. I have not consulted my vet about the Humulin, because, honestly, I think she will get mad because I am doing this on my own. I am planning to start Blue on 1 unit 2x day and watch his reaction carefully.

 

We would love to teach you to hometest. We can do it online or if you post your city and state, we may have someone close by who could come help you the first time. One of the best things (besides keeping your kitty on safe dosages) is that you don't have to go to the vet to see how he is doing. You just keep your data in a spreadsheet and fax it to the vet.

Here is a video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

And a great site for explanations: http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm

 

Wow, 8 units is a very large dose of Vetsulin.

Like I already mentionned, some vets dose cats by weight like they do for dogs. Cats metabolize differently. Even a small dose can sometimes make a big difference.

Unless there is a known underlying medical condition, most of us here start on a low dose like 0.5 unit or 1 unit, hold this dose while hometesting so we can see how it's effecting the cat, and slowly increase from there. I truly believe that hometesting is the best way to know how the dose is effecting the cat. It will be cheaper than doing a curve at the vet. The numbers will also be more accurate because the cat will be in it's own environment and not have the added stress from being at the vet. Stress can temporarily increase the B.G.'s.

You can get a human glucometer and your local pharmacy and some are even free with your first purchase of strips. After that you can buy strips relatively cheap on E-bay.

or read the post in this forum for newbies who want to start hometesting

request a starter kit

Navigate around this site and look for posts on hometesting. They are very valuable and some have links to videos to show how it's done.

 

Yep, that is how you post a reply!
I have to echo that you don't need to go to the vet's office to monitor your kitty's bg level. I bought my meter at Wal-Mart...the Relion Micro for $12 and the strips are $22 for a box of 50. It's not very hard to do and will save you money, time, and STRESS!!! Just check out the links provided in the other posts and you will see how easy it is. If you would like someone to come to your house and show you how to do it, please post your location and there is a possibility that someone lives in your area and can help you.

 

In my opinion, 1 unit is a safer starting dose for a fast acting insulin.
Consider the hometesting too.

Just my further thoughts....
I understand how you may feel about making your vet mad, but it's important to have a good working relationship with your vet. If your vet won't collaborate with you on the treatment of your pet, you could always look for another one that will.

Good luck with everthing.

 

I started on Humulin N with Snickers and was not at all happy with it. It dropped her too far, too fast (we're talking 300 points in two hours). I switched to BCP PZI, which is still being manufactured, and had very good luck with it. A vial lasts 6-9 months, and depending on the strength, costs $50-75.

You can get a free sample vial of the BCP PZI if your vet faxes in the form from their website (www.bcpvetpharm.com).

 

Humulin N worked for us! But always remember that ECID, Every cat is different.
I am a newbie but have seen great success with our Boozer
Boozer was diagnosed in November of 09 and was put on Lantus and had an allergic reaction, which is very rare. Even the people here had never heard of it before. Our vet then put him on Humulin N. It is a very harsh insulin and was on 1 unit BID, and I could see after 10 + hours the insulin coming off. We didn't home test at first, I got my newbie kit and began right away, my huband held him like a baby and I did all the poking and stabbing. His blood sugars at a curve at the vets office December 2nd were upwards of 460 to 495, which was from vet stress. I highly reccomend hometesting, and if I can do it you can do it! I know that it saved his life. We started testing the end of December and were getting in the 30s and 40's. We took him back to the vet and he was 66, he has been OTJ since Christmas 09 and has a stable daily BG in the 80s for two weeks.

Good luck.