Hypo cat refusing food

HI, this is probably somewhere but I couldn't find it. Fred is at 4.5 and I have given glucose water but he has barely eaten today and even now shuns food (treats, meat, peanut butter I am trying it all) how should I deal with it? Am i to test every hour and put more sugar paste in his mouth? Thanks Helen x

 

What insulin is he on and what dose. Are you using a pet meter or human meter? Also how long after the shot did you get the 4.5 reading

 

Helen, I don't know what glucose water is but yes, test again when you can and if Fred is still dropping - you don't want him going any lower if you can help it - try rubbing some honey on his gums.
I was just about to ask you what insulin do you use, amd when you last gave a dose? As Mary Ann has asked above.

Diana

 

I'm pretty sure (from FB) that Helen's kitty, Fred, is on Caninsulin.

Helen:
How many hours ago did you give insulin?
Did you test blood glucose at that point, and what was it?
How many units of insulin did you give?

Am I right in thinking that you are using a 'human' glucose meter?

That 4.5 is fine in and of itself, but we don't want it dropping much lower.
.

 

Thanks for stopping by with that information. Just waiting for Helen to reply.

 

Mary Ann, I'm a bit concerned that Helen said in her initial post that Fred hasn't eaten much today... Wondering what is going on there....

Edited to add: Have commented on FB page (in Diana's post there) telling Helen that there are responses here on FDMB.
.

 

I expect she's testing again as we speak...

 

That concerned me and even more now that you say she is using Caninsulin.

@Helenjayne can you reply to the questions as soon as possible please.

 

According to Helen's FB page she had another hypo episode in June where she took him into ER. All turned out fine at that time.

 

BUMP

 

Omg nothing happened on the thread then bam. Yes he is on caninsulin and I didn't give him his evening shot as having noticed him not eating much I wanted to check before I gave him it which is when I got the number. He has now eaten a few biscuits but not a lot but glucose paste was given also. I am going to retest soon. Fred also had a reading of 4.0 the time before last I did a curve but showed no outward signs. It seems to be getting to be a bit of a habit to be honest even when he is eating norm. Let me check the thread and see what info I missed out x

 

Right, human meter and his dose is 1.5 twice a day, we haven't cracked getting him regulated yet though

 

Sorry I took so long

 

Have you tested again Helen and if so what number did you get?

 

Quite a few questions, Helen :
1. How many HOURS since insulin?
2. What dose?
3. Did you check his blood glucose prior to giving insulin, and what was it?
.

 

Also I did a curve yesterday this is the graph

 

Don't worry
.

 

Jebus his shots are at 8 and 8 so his last was roughly 12 hours before at 8 am I didn't test this morning as the poor thing endured a curve yesterday and it was 1.5u caninsulin

 

Gonna test now lol, too much typing hahahaha x

 

There probably isn't much if any Caninsulin left in his system if his last shot was at 8am.
He had quite a steep drop yesterday - is that normal for him? I don't know how often you do curves.

 

Helen, can you confirm that you got that 4.5 at around 12 hours after giving Caninsulin? (Preshot number not known)?
If it is 12 hours after the shot then he shouldn't be at risk of hypo.

 

Got an 8.1 this time and he is eating a bit. He may be a bit upset as lately I bought another foster cat into the home (am sure I have had one from the same home before and the first one couldn't be saved, this one is not in the best way either) so I am having to spend time dealing with the new cat a lot and while they mainly ignore each other they do get annoyed when they spot one another which happened last night, maybe it was the curve yesterday, I just don't know why he had barely eaten today but I also didn't know whether he had stolen the other cats food so wad indeed OK until I tested x

 

All I know is the vet said anything under 5 give sugar and I had a pre shot 9 before and the vet advised not to give him a shot so a 4something would be a no too. I have given fred a few weeks off but try to do a curve every week or fortnight but yes, these drops seem to be becoming the norm

 

This is the curve before. Remember shots are at 8 and 8 and before this we tried three small shots a day so the curves are irrelevant x

 

So 8.1 is great - hopefully hypo alert is over! Maybe give Fred a bit of TLC and try to tempt him with something really tasty. Sounds like he could do with something in his tummy.
More expert peeps here may be able to advise the next step, ie when to test again (amd def before next insulin shot).
Good luck!

 

Yup didn't test this morning so the 4.5 was twelve hours after his last shot

 

He pretty much refused to eat til I left him alone, he did look a lot more perceptive after the glucose earlier though

 

Thanks everyone. So what do you think of the two curves? I thought they were normal as the vet never mentioned anything about the drops? If anything is up I will speak to the vet about the other insulin that has just been licensed in the UK x

 

What are you feeding and how much at each meal? How soon after eating do you give insulin?

 

Hmm, so he may have gone even lower than the 4 reading you got. Helen, I don't know anything about Fred's FD but if you possibly can, when you feel up to it, put some info about him on your profile so other people here can look for the basic information we need to know in order to give you advice (eg what insulin he is on, what doses you give, any particular issues that may be relevant). It really is worth doing this. Anyway, now that you've joined FDMB come here as often as you like and post with more questions.

Best wishes
Diana

 

Ooh home work lol. He eats just normal tinned cat food, worked our way down to just under a 400g tin twice a day, normally he tucks straight in x

 

Gonna go do the profile things brb

 

Oh insulin is given sometimes while tucking in sometimes about fifteen minutes later and if he hasn't eaten about 15 minutes after breakfast is offered as sometimes he eats only just after I give his shot

 

Er I think I did the info thingy lol

 

Did I?

 

Excellent! Well done Helen! Get yourself a drink or some chocolate or something and have a breather!

I'm signing off for the night now as will Eliz and other UKers (unless they are night owls) but if you have more concerns just keep posting, this is an international board and there is usually someone around...

 

That's fine I have 3 cats of my own, a three year old and two foster cats to be up for, I have a daily alarm for 7:30 am to get fred sorted so I am gonna head off myself, night all x

 

ok - there are lots of canned cat foods, which canned cat food? How much at each meal?

With Caninsulin you should always ensure the cat has eaten before the shot, I usually give it about 30 minutes after I put food down. The problem is if insulin is on board and the cat decides to something more interesting instead then you are looking at a risk of hypos as once it is in you can't get it out again. Caninsulin works quickly and can cause big drops, and if there is no food on board or not enough time to start digesting it then the numbers will be hammered down.

Both your curves show big drops and this may be the reason, the steepness of the drop can be managed with an appropriate feeding regime. I see you are feeding 12 hourly according to your curves, this isn't a problem - I do the same. Some people prefer a different regime by giving most of the food pre shot and at around 3 hours after a smaller meal or snack. Consistency is important.

Big drops can also cause the numbers to bounce up as the body has an emergency supply of glucose it can release from the liver and if you don't recognise a bounce the temptation is to increase the dose rather than holding it or reducing it. Not all cats will display symptoms of hypos until they crash big time. As you are monitoring when you get a chance can you set up a spreadsheet so we can have a closer look at his numbers and see what the pattern is. We can then advise further.

 

I also notice you said at one point you were giving three shots a day - this kind of regime requires much more frequent monitoring during the cycle as the risk of hypos is increased, so you need nerves of steel and a lot of time to do this. Unless you have both I would stick with the standard 12 hourly regime.

 

I have now had a chance to have a proper look at both your curves. The 8 August curve shows a typical caninsulin curve with a smile shape with the low between 4 and 6 hours post shot from a start point around 20 finishing around the same. I use a pet meter so find it difficult to 'translate' where in the normal ranges we use what the corresponding would be on a human meter.

The 25 July curve shows something different. There was a steep drop to +4 then a sudden upturn in the curve to +5 and +6 with a rise after to an end point of just under 20 from a start point of around 16, this looks to me like a bounce but I would appreciate some other eyes on this to check. Was there anything different between these 2 days - amount of food, timing of shot in relation to food, etc?

You also say you skipped the pre-shot am test yesterday, cats can throw odd numbers, and mine seems to be an expert at this, even with everything else fully controlled, so we don't know the start point yesterday. You should always test before giving insulin and when the cat has not eaten for at least 2 hours prior. It's all about getting into a regime. Mine knows no test, no food, now so she actually goes to her test place and waits for me first thing in the morning - evenings she hasn't quite got the message yet but if you have a specific test spot and give a small treat post test they do learn.

We can help you through this, bounces happen, the important thing is you recognise it, sometimes it takes a few days if you can't get mid cycle tests - life gets in the way. Regulation takes time and slow and steady is the way.

About hypos. They happen, insulin is a hormone, every cat is different, every cycle is different. Here are some links to help you
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

Come back with any questions, and welcome to the board!