? If the AMPS is low why do you still shoot?

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Kylee and Her Mom Renee', Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Kylee and Her Mom Renee'

    Kylee and Her Mom Renee' Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2018
    I have been looking at others SS and for example kitties AMPS is 100 and 3.5 units are given. The afternoon tests show kittie BS is high. The PMPS is high too. Isn't that dangerous? I am new and am able to watch my kittie for any unusual signs. I have seem them the first week of her on insulin.
    Now if she is low I will not shoot. Is this wrong. I am reading all the info here. I know I have a lot to learn so this is why I am asking.
    Thank you
     
  2. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    First, you haven't had a chance to collect much data yet. We don't encourage someone who is still new at managing their kitty's diabetes to shoot low. However, once you have a good grasp on how Kylee responds to insulin, you can start lowering the point at which you opt to shoot.

    Because Lantus is a depot type of insulin with a gentle action, it's possible to shoot low numbers I would routinely shoot any number above 50. A typical Lantus cycle is flat. With shorter acting insulin, you can't risk doing this since these types of insulin yank down numbers.

    When you see a low number followed by an upward spike, this is what we refer to as a "bounce." Numbers that are lower than what your cat is used to, truly low numbers, or a fast drop in numbers are reasons that trigger a bounce. Bounces are the result of the liver and pancreas "panicking" and releasing a stored form of glucose and counterregulatory hormones as a means of getting a cats blood glucose levels up. It's an overreaction that most people find annoying but, it's a normal response..

    If I may offer a suggestion... It's a good idea to get spot checks during the PM cycle. Many cats experience lower numbers at night. We encourage at minimum, a before bed test every night.

     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  3. Amanda and a Loudogg

    Amanda and a Loudogg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Hiya Renee! These depot insulins work slowly and usually peak later in the cycle. They try to give you nice flat cycles instead of the big dives and rebounds of those quicker-acting in-and-out insulins. The idea is you shoot low to stay low. While you're still new and collecting data, we do say to not shoot at lower numbers as you're learning Kylee's reaction to insulin. We usually have you stall without feeding and post for assistance. As you get more data and experience, you'll shoot those lower doses to keep Kylee's BGs lower. If you're skipping a lot of doses, it might be an indicator that your dose is too high. I'll let someone more experienced look at that aspect. I do not see any PMPS BG checks. You'll want to always check prior to giving insulin both AM and PM to ensure the BG is safe to shoot.

    PS - no need for apologies or explanations. We were all new once and we're here to help! We love questions, haha.
     
    Mary Ann & Baby likes this.
  4. SOBrien

    SOBrien Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2018
    Renee, I’m so glad you asked this question because I was of the understanding (and I’m still pretty new at this) that you shouldn’t administer insulin if BG was 200 or less. As much as I read I keep finding there is so much more to learn! Boots has been under 200 since the 4th so I haven’t been giving insulin. I’ll be keeping an eye on the thread :)
     
  5. Kylee and Her Mom Renee'

    Kylee and Her Mom Renee' Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2018
    Thank you for responding. It is a lot to learn. read and read, and trying to get it all straight in my head. I looked at your SS for Boots, Why do does your SS say and hour after (+1) but I don't see any AMPS numbers? Do you shoot before you feed or after? I try to get a AMPS in before I shoot. Then I feed, then test 4-6 hours after. It is is mind boggling huh. Take care.
    Boots is a cutie.
     
  6. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I see Kylee showed you a couple tests in the 40's two nights ago. That means her insulin dose of 1.0 units is too high. You should reduce to 0.75 units.

    Yes, always get an AMPS and PMPS test so you know it is safe to give insulin.
     
  7. SOBrien

    SOBrien Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2018
    Hi Renee, I haven’t been dosing Boots on insulin for a couple of weeks since he’s been running lower than I’m comfortable shooting, but I’m still using the spreadsheet to track his BG readings. The +1 to me is +1 after food is given (I know most ppl dose
    at meal time) - I probably made it more complicated by using the spreadsheet at all... when he was getting regular insulin I dosed after he ate to make sure he ate at least half his food. I’m bringing his numbers into the vet again tomorrow and I’m looking forward to hearing her feedback. Thank you for taking the time to respond and again for the good question. It got me thinking!
     
  8. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    With Lantus being slow acting, you are not shooting the PS number, but rather a number 2-3 or so hours down the road,when the insulin kicks in - this is called onset
    This can be hard to wrap your mind around at first.


    So determining when onset occurs for your kitty is critical to evaluating whether to shoot a lower than ever PS.
    The PS is important in that when you look at data from the previous cycle, particularly the second half of the previous cycle relative to the PS it can help you figure out if numbers a re going up or down and ultimately if it is safe to shoot.

    This is all part of becoming data ready, which takes some time. :cool:
     
  9. Kylee and Her Mom Renee'

    Kylee and Her Mom Renee' Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2018
    Thank you. I will see how her numbers are in a few minutes if I can get her. I hate to wake her up. She didn't sleep much today. Hubby was vacuuming for me. So her schedule was upset. I always check before her evening meal.
    I will re-read all the info provided for us. Thanks again. I appreciate everyone's help so much.
     

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