Introducing Murrie (Canada)

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Riulake, Jan 10, 2018.

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  1. Riulake

    Riulake Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Hi everyone! I’ve been creeping around the FDMB since diagnosis but held off posting until I knew a little of what I was talking about. I first want to say a big thank you for the time, effort, and work you all have contributed to the community. It has been such a challenge to navigate this new world, and this forum has already been an immensely helpful resource and a source of relief so for that, I thank you.

    Allow me to introduce my little Canadian kitty. Murrie is a 7yo male, neutered, white shorthair / brown tabby, diagnosed in November 2017. He had been eating a high-quality dry food with some wet here and there.
    On the night of diagnosis and with the vet’s recommendation, we switched to the dry Purina DM. They said to stay with dry food until he refused it, and only THEN consider wet food.
    Day two, we got him started on the prescribed 2.5 units of Lantus - that evening he was at the edge of consciousness. We did not receive any info / training re: how to identify and treat hypo, but my instinct was to finger-feed him wet food which, very thankfully, brought him around. Day three, he was vomiting the DM kibble so went back to the vet and they lowered his dose to 1 unit. I started researching the DM food, and upon finding the FDMB and reading Dr. Lisa’s work, we bailed on the Purina DM and switched to a high-protein wet food (Canadian brand Boreal). After one week of 1 unit, he was drinking a lot and vomiting. We had no idea what was happening in his little body: was the dose was too high now that he was on wet food, or was it too low. I was worried about DKA so we went to the late-night Emerg; he was not in DKA but did have ketones in his urine.
    He spent three long, heartbreaking nights in the ICU. They said he was having separation anxiety and wouldn’t eat or sleep if we weren’t there, so we went 2x a day to hold his little head so he could rest. They re-started his Lantus and did a mini curve; he was apparently very difficult to regulate but they advised 2 units.
    The Emerg vets said if the initial 2.5 dose was too high, the first vet shouldn’t have brought him down quite so low to 1 unit; it should have been a gradual decrease to find his sweet spot. That he basically just went from hypo to hyper. This was very frustrating to hear; those four days in the ICU were so upsetting for Murrie and for us, and of course extremely expensive. Just to learn such a seemingly obvious lesson. We have not returned to that vet.

    Two weeks after taking him home and administering 2 units, we started seeing hypo symptoms. The original vet had heavily advised against human meters, stating the only viable option was the Alpha-Trak. I had read on FDMB that human meters were common and after a bout of vomit, we couldn’t take being in the dark any longer so we purchased the Aviva Accu-Check. We are so relieved to be able to read him at any time and have the peace of mind of knowing where his BG is.

    SO, I have followed the instructions and included in my signature the link to Murrie’s BG Log. As you can see, based on high / low readings, we have been slowly adjusting his dosage and he has been quite comfortable now receiving 1.75 units. I’ve seen a few comments about “surfing the green.” As I originally heard 6-10 mmol was ideal, we have been trying to keep him out of the dark green and in the blue. Can someone provide some clarity re: dark green, blue, and ideal numbers?

    Please feel free to provide any feedback / experience, it would be greatly appreciated as we are still so new to this. We have also started looking into the Tight Regulation (Lantus) but I’m still learning about this.

    Many thanks in advance from our little clan,
    Amy, Andrew and Murrie <3.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  2. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Hi Murrie, Amy & Andrew!

    I am so sorry that you went through all that. Unfortunately it is not an unfamiliar story. So glad you are home testing.

    Dark green is the sweet spot that is considered the pancreas healing zone! Lime green is a take action number. Means they are going lower than is really safe.
    Did you have a chance to read the hypo sticky thread? If not, please do so and print a copy and put it on your fridge. Make sure you have a hypo kit ready as well.

    I am from Alberta and there many other Canucks on this board. Wait till you meet @Noah & me (GA) .
     
  3. Riulake

    Riulake Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Hi Tracey! Nice to e-meet you. And thanks for responding.
    Murrie is frequently in the dark green, but it was concerning to me as I mentioned I'd heard 6-10 was ideal. I will dive in deeper to this pancreas healing zone - the Emerg vets did say he could possibly have pancreatitis.
    And two weeks ago when he hit 2.9 I completely freaked out - so I ran and purchased a full hypo kit as per the sticky thread. I am always a fan of being prepared!
     
  4. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    I can't seem to click onto Murrie's spreadsheet to see his numbers.

    With a human meter - the BG is read lower than it actually would be on a pet meter or lab.

    According to the lab work that Jones has had normal is 3.5/4 to 9.4/9.7 depending on the lab - which is calibrated to cat blood.

    So our take action number of below 2.7 is within range of that 3.5 on a pet meter. And before you ask...no there is no direction correlation between the two types of meters but the two meters are closer together in the lower ranges.

    I know for Jones, he has pushed it 1.9 and he had no outward signs except he was cold and slightly lethargic - I was completely freaked.
     
  5. Riulake

    Riulake Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Sorry, I just updated the link. It should work now!
    Wow 1.9 would have totally freaked me out too. So glad Jonesie was ok (sorry, I am a fervent nicknamer).
    Ok so I was getting worried when I'd see anywhere near 3 (being near 2.8 don't shoot) but that shouldn't be the case.
     
  6. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Hello from the Kawarthas.
     
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  7. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    I still get hyper attentive when he gets to the 3's. :rolleyes:

    I see you are using the TR protocol - is that correct? I don't use that one, so I am not sure on the don't shoot numbers. It is all there in the sticky though I believe. There it is and it says....The short answer is that most kitties can be shot at +12, almost regardless of the number, once you are data ready to do so. The exception is that shooting 30s or 40s is not recommended for most cats, so if a cat is lower then usual the best option is to wait until they are at a shootable number to shoot. So, 40 is 2.2 - 45 is 2.5 - 50 is 2.7.

    When in doubt of shooting a low number - stall, don't feed, retest and see if Murrie is going up or down...that may help you decide when to shoot. You can always post asking for guidance.

    I see his spreadsheet. That is a beautiful spreadsheet.

    If you have any questions, please feel free to post them on the Lantus forum, lots of experienced eyes over there.
     
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  8. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Don't provoke me Tracey! Amy, Andrew and Murrie. I used to live where Tracey lives now (Tar Sands, pickup trucks), then downtown Toronto, then we did the white picket fence thing in Milton. There's a fantastic vet out this way if you need a recommendation.
     
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  9. Riulake

    Riulake Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    I have only begun looking into TR, but since he is so newly diagnosed I wouldn't mind trying if there's a chance it could get him into remission. But I'm just still not entirely comfortable with playing around with dosing and low numbers. I'm only just starting to feel like we're a bit more stable, and having a teeny tiny sigh of relief. Thanks, I think I will post on the Lantus thread shortly.
    So I might not understand the shorthand in your signature, is Jones only getting 1 shot per month? That's very impressive if so! How does that work?
    And I'm still trying to price out LC options, in a panicked flurry we went with Boreal - a bit expensive but it's all made in Canada so that was a plus. What are you feeding Jones?
    Thx in advance : )
     
  10. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Another Canadian here! You are doing fantastically well and your kitty's spreadsheet is wonderful! :D The Lantus folks will be very impressed! Do you have to feed small snacks to keep Murrie's BG so stable? If not he has remarkably calm responses to the insulin.
     
  11. Riulake

    Riulake Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Oh now I see - it's B12 he's getting 1x per month.
     
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  12. Myagi (GA) and Heidi

    Myagi (GA) and Heidi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    I'm not Canadian, but I'd still like to welcome you and your beautiful Riulake! :bighug::bighug:
     
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  13. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Yes the B12 is once a month;)

    I feed Jones Rawz, Wervu Fowl Ball and Tiki Velvet Mousse.
     
  14. Riulake

    Riulake Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Hi Kris, and thanks for the kind words!! I actually grew up in Ottawa : ) and I love the name Teasel!
    When Murrie was first diagnosed, I was told anything under 108 (6 mmol) was too low. So between +2 and +4 he would be in the area of 55 - 70 (3 - 4 mmol), occasionally I would give him a bump of wet food. I'm still a little nervous when he's in the dark greens but I'm learning it's not so bad. I'm still not entirely clear if dark green is preferable to blue? I see a lot of conflicting numbers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  15. Riulake

    Riulake Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Thank you Heidi! It's nice to e-meet you! Your Myagi looks quite regal. And he and Murrie are Dx buddies - they were diagnosed within 2 weeks of each other!
    (FYI I only specify being Canadian because of the mmol and also food options).
     
  16. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Dark green is good but it can be difficult to achieve without going too low if your kitty is volatile like mine. Murrie seems very "measured" in his responses so you should be able to get him there without too much drama.
     
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  17. Riulake

    Riulake Member

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    Nov 19, 2017
    : ) Thanks for your help. Teasel is a lucky bun!
     
  18. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    He sure doesn't make it easy for me but after two years of this I'm accustomed to it. ;)
     
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