Jeter's first blood test by me!

Okay we finally got some blood out of that sweet kitty ear with a reading of 69. I've been reading trying to figure out if this is good or bad but am not sure. It was taken immediately after he ate and before his shot of Novolin (1 unit). I know he needs more tests for a curve but feel like he isn't doing really well- still peeing a lot and drinking a lot of water. Any comments?

 

Are you sure about that reading? Can you do another test with another strip? That's a pretty low (non-diabetic, even) number, it doesn't seem consistent with the clinical signs (drinking and peeing).

Have you given the shot yet? If not, I would hold off until I got another reading. If you have given the shot, then definitely get another reading now to make sure you know what the insulin is working on.

 

It's very good that you got that test. Per Nan and Amber's recommendation if you haven't given the Novolin yet then hold off for now.

Please can you get another blood test and post the result.

If you have already given the Novolin then you will need to keep monitoring for several hours to make sure Jeter stays safe because if the 69 is a genuine result then that's a very low number for a preshot.

Please can you post straight away with the type of meter you're using (human or pet meter?).


Mogs
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I agree...I'd retest....if he's below 200, we don't suggest shooting until you have a lot of data on how your cat responds

 

@Chris & China -

Can you keep an eye on Jeter, Chris, or find someone else who can? I've taken a sleeping tablet and I'm about to pass out.

I've PM'd @postalbunny to ask them to reply here ASAP.


Mogs
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Yeah I'll try....get some sleep!!

I need to start keeping track of people who use Novolin so I know who to look for

 

You're a star, Chris!

FYI, Marje helped Cathie and Shaak with Novolin recently.


Mogs
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Thanks, guys-- I'm a newbie and was just hunting around to try to figure out how to 'tag' more experienced members to follow up on this, but you stepped right in before I could!

 

@Nan & Amber - Your instincts were good!

 

@Nan & Amber ....to "tag" someone, put the @ in front of their name and as you type, a drop down list should come up with choices that match

 

@postalbunny -

Make sure you have all your hypo supplies handy. If you're using a pet meter that 69 reading is just one point above the nominal hypo threshold. Even if it's on a human meter, it's still concerningly low.

If that 69 is a valid reading and you have already given insulin then for safety it is CRITICAL for you to test every 30 minutes for the time being because Novolin can drop blood glucose levels very hard and very fast and Jeter was already low at preshot.

FDMB HYPO GUIDE - http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/


Chris will keep an eye on the two of you and help you but you need to keep posting on this thread and checking for replies and guidance. Crossing fingers and paws for you both to have a safe night.


Mogs
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How is Jeter doing? Has anybody heard from @postalbunny?

 

@Squalliesmom ...No...still hoping to hear back from her

 

Wow just got back online.. I did give Jeter his shot because I wasn't sure what to do. He has been napping but seemed ok while I was trimming the knots off his stomach. Ill try the blood test again

 

You shot when he was at 69?

You're going to need to keep a VERY close eye on him and test frequently tonight until we know for sure he's out of danger

 

Blood test says 26 now giving him food

 

so what are the numbers where it is safe to give him a shot?\

 

Using a human meter Relion. My first reading for him- the vet has been telling me to give him one unit every 12 hours and he'd be fine..

 

At the beginning, before you have a good sense of where a dose will take him, the recommendation is not to shoot under 200.

I'm hoping some of the more experienced folks return soon to offer guidance, but here's what I know:

1) with the insulin on board and such low numbers, you need to monitor very closely until the numbers start going up.
2) hold off on feeding a ton of food right now, you may need to keep feeding to keep the numbers up
3) if you do give food, with a number like 26 I think you should be giving high-carb food-- gravy from the Fancy Feast gravy lovers is a favorite, but another option is to put a bit of honey or Karo syrup on the usual low-carb food.
4) in a pinch, a bit of honey/Karo on the gums (it will absorb in, he doesn't have to swallow) will quickly (though briefly) bring numbers up.

More in a bit.

 

Thank you

 

26 is WAY too low

You need to give him some high carb food like the Gravy from a Fancy Feast gravy lovers and I'd add a few drops of Karo, honey or syrup to that

A couple of teaspoons of just the "gravy" part and a few drops of Karo/honey/syrup....we don't want him to fill up on food because you're going to need to keep him interested in eating

Retest in 20 minutes

 

Chris and China are here, yay! I'll step back to let the more experienced folks guide you so that you don't have too many conflicting pieces of advice coming at you at once.

Follow their lead, they know what they are doing and have guided many through the same process over the years...

 

You're doing good @Nan & Amber !!

When it's an emergency (and this IS), the important thing is to get the help started....keep it short and simple and just get the point across that they're too low and what to do immediately

There's time for explanations about why later

 

@postalbunny .....if you haven't tested again yet, please update

We really need to get him at least above 50 but even then, we'll need to keep testing for awhile since we don't have any data on how he responds

 

Up to 52-thanks for the help-I wish I had known more

 

OK....you can't relax yet but I'm glad to see he's over 50

Is he a "big eater"? If you put food down, will he eat forever or does he "fill up" and stop eating? If he's a good eater, I'd give him a teaspoon or two of food now

You need to test again in 30 minutes....he could very easily come back down again

 

@postalbunny

Stay logged in, still need to keep close eye. Watching from sidelines, I don't want to intrude.

 

That's what we're here for....in the future, if he's below 200 at Pre-shot time, you should "stall", don't feed and post for help

 

Great! Going in the right direction!

As Chris & China said, you're going to need to keep monitoring and feeding some high-carb food for a while longer to make sure this increase "sticks", but this is encouraging so far.

How is Jeter feeling now? And how are you so far?

 

@postalbunny ,

Chris needs to step away for a few. Ask me to help.

Do you have a name?

Next test should be soon right?

 

10:30 now at 76. I'm Brigit. Jeter likes to graze a few bites here and there but lately he's been eating good

 

Will do!

 

He seems a little better..I'm kicking myself

 

Ok. That's good. Try holding food and test in 30 minutes. Need to see how it goes without food influence.

 

It's okay, we have all been in this exact same spot.

 

My first was over Labor day weekend. Had just found this site. Spent 2 days reading everything to decide if it was legit. After all there are a lot of nuts out there.

Decided it was. Introduced myself. Wham Smokey was hypo and I didn't know it. Had nothing in the house. Wasn't monitoring cuz I was told it wasn't necessary.

It was a long long anxious night.

 

Brigit, can you tell me a little about Jeter? How old is he, when was he diagnosed? Is he a big kitty?

 

Please don't feel bad....the reason we're all here helping you is because when we were in the same place, someone here reached out to us and helped us.

Vets don't know much about treating feline diabetes and treat most of their cat patients like they would treat a small dog and cats are totally different. The Novolin you're using is a much better dog insulin than it is a cat one. Cat's metabolism is faster, so having a hard hitting insulin like Novolin tends to hit them hard and fast and then wear off long before it's time for the next shot. Lantus, Levemir and ProZinc are much better for cats.

I'll be checking in on you but I'm glad Woodsywife is here to watch over you too! I'm fighting a bad cold and my own kitty is running a little low tonight

By the way....Congratulations on your first test!! Welcome to the Vampire Club!!

 

I remember that!

I'll be around for a while, too, if somebody needs a break for a bit. Chris, hope China comes up okay and you feel better soon!

 

@postalbunny

Have you gotten another test?

 

Yeah that was a night. Couldn't get to ER. No Karo or icing. Got through it with everyone here.

 

Another test now at 86. Should I continue with food and testing?

 

I would do one more test in an hour. If he is the same or better, I think your safe for the night.

Is he hungry? Or is it time for a meal?

 

Jeter is about 13. He was diagnosed in February and did fine for a while but I'm thinking I may need to switch insulin. He had lost weight both pre and post diagnosis and last I checked weighs 8 pounds. Pretty skinny and hasn't been grooming himself much.( though never did enough)

 

When is his next insulin shot due?

 

no I just thought he may need more calories

 

No more food for now....you will want to test every 3o minutes for at least 1 hour from the last time he got any food....and then test at least once more an hour later than that....so you're testing for at least 2 hours from the last food so you know for sure he's up and going to stay up without you having to continue to intervene with food or Karo

 

How many hours ago did he get his shot? I would suggest getting at least one more test, as Woodsywife says. When was the last time you gave him food?

 

next insulin is due at 6:15 am.

 

Not familiar with the insulin your using but I would test a post for advice before you give it.

If you could do that an before would be ideal, but the time I don't know. Any suggestions Chris?

 

Don't be surprised if he's really high in the morning....it's called "bouncing"....when a cat drops too low, drops too quickly or just drops below where their body hasn't gotten used to being, the liver releases stored sugars and hormones to bring them back up fast

With him dropping into the 20's, he'll probably bounce pretty high by morning....BUT even if he's over 200 (which I suspect he'll be) you'll want to REDUCE his dose to .75 unit

With him only being at 69 tonight, 12 hours after his morning shot, 1 unit is obviously too much for him

 

His shot was at 6:15. I just fed him a couple teaspoons around 10;30 I think.

 

You should discuss with your vet. Lantus, levemir, Prozinc, PZI are all good. And each is done differently.

No matter what you use someone here can help you with it. We can point you in the direction of buying and getting the most bang for your buck.

 

Would it be better to skip the morning shot? The needle is so small I'm not sure I can measure out .75

 

Before you go to bed, you might want to leave a little low carb food out for him.

 

Ok thanks so much Chris

 

We live all over the world here, so was 10:30 Eastern time? If so, I'd test again at 11:30

It would really help if you'd start our spreadsheet and start keeping track of his test numbers too. We really depend on seeing what's been going on with a cat before we like to give a lot of advice, especially using an insulin we aren't familiar with. Here are Instructions on getting the FDMB Spreadsheet

Another thing you can do really quickly is to get your signature lines filled out. Just go to the top right and find your sign on name and there's a drop down menu with "Signature" as a choice. Click there and a new box will pop up

Put information like Your name/cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food you're feeding and any other health problems...some of us like to put a general idea of where we live too

Once you have that, we won't have to keep asking you the same questions over and over again!

Once you have your spreadsheet set up, the link would go into your signature too

 

No, it wouldn't be better unles he is to low. And as Chris said he will probably be high and that's when he needs it.

Just ask before you give.

 

I have to stand guard over him while he nibbles or my other 2 cats scarf it up! maybe I'll put him in the bathroom Thanks for all the advise

 

Ok Chris- I'll try. Thanks again for all your help

 

Brigit, my cat used to be on a harsher insulin, like Novolin, too. I would definitely err on the side of caution with his morning shot; Chris is absolutely correct, no more than 0.75U. I might even go down to 0.5U. Before you shoot, test and post your results, asking for dosing advice.

ETA: Please contact your vet in the morning to let him know what's happened!

 

Will you be home around 3 to 4 hours after his shot to check his BG levels? If not, please leave food out for him.

Both my kitties hypoed every shot on Novalin. If it wasn't for the food being out they probably wouldn't have made it.

I shot my Buzz for 5 months without home testing. He was showing signs of low BG but I was following the advice of my vet and not home testing. Woody at one time was at 13 units twice a day. The wonderful people here saw what was happening and advised lowering the dose. We all ended up surprised that Woody survived my bumbling attempts to manage is diabetes.

That bounce will look bad, but it will straighten out. If he were my kitty I would follow Chris' advice and only do .75. You'll see tomorrow evening what that did.

Also, you are feeding him 30 minutes prior to shot time?

What time zone are you in? I'll be up at 6:00 central time

 

Ok thanks

 

Here's a picture of .75...but this picture is using a U100 insulin syringe with half unit markings....Since Novolin is a U40 insulin that uses a U40 syringe, you'll just need to do the best you can

You might want to just go to .5 (without lines, again, you'll just have to eyeball it)....but you can play with it tonight with some colored water of some kind (tea, coffee, koolaid) and decide where you want it to be....that way you'll have something to compare to in the morning

 

Ok will do

 

Trying to figure out things-sorry. No I'm working tomorrow usually feed everyone at 5:20 or so and give Jeter his shot an hour later. He takes a long time to eat usually. will figure out a way for leaving out the food. Thanks for all the help! I'm on Eastern time.

 

Good luck, and don't feel bad, we've all been there! It's quite a learning process, but you'll be amazed at how quickly you begin to assimilate it all!

 

That .5 or .75 is going to look like nothing.

 

You are doing great! If you need help setting up the spreadsheet there are numerous people here that can do it for you. Just let us know. In the am start a new thread with the prefix ?

 

Ok ! New reading 114

 

Thanks!!

 

My cat gets a tiny dose that is very hard for me to see. I have found that if I hold it horizontally against a white or light colored background, just like in the picture Chris posted, it is easier to see how much I have drawn up. Glad he's up to 114, he's headed in the right direction!

ETA: Sometimes holding it up to the light can help, too!

 

Make sure you test before you feed in the morning...it's good that you don't shoot right away (usually we say to wait 30 minutes) but that will give you a little time to post if he's below 200 in the morning (which I doubt he will be, but he's a cat!!)

 

If you do need advice on shooting, make sure your subject line says something like "STALLING...NEED HELP!".....so you'll hopefully get someone's attention...you can always change it later once you have someone's attention

We have people from all over the world here, so there's usually someone around pretty much 24/7

 

Brigit, you did well. Jeter is okay for the night.

 

Absolutely!! You did fantastic Brigit!!

 

Yes, you did a great job!

 

Hi all,

I'm pleased and relieved to see that Brigit and Jeter are safe and well. Thanks to everyone who pitched in to help last night; there was no way I could have stayed (I'm utterly exhausted these days).

@postalbunny - Be sure to let your vet know that the dose was too high and be sure to keep testing, even on the reduced dose.


Mogs
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Don't kick yourself, whatever you do. You are learning, just as we all are every day. You're doing great, seriously. Just by starting hometesting and insulin etc you have taken some really positive steps. The people on the board are here to guide you through. We would never learn if we didn't make a few mistakes along the way!

 

Just a quick bit of information here. My cat was previously on Novolin N and his insulin was a U100 not the U40 as someone mentioned above. Do your syringes have the orange cap? If so then you are using the U100 syringes which I think is the right one to use for Novolin N. Maybe another Novolin N user can weigh in here with their syringes?

 

My syringes are also U100. They have the orange cap. Postal bunny what are your syringes?

 

Please try not to be so hard on yourself, Brigit. So many of us arrive here with wrong doses and little or no instruction from a vet on how to manage our diabetic kitties. Instead of beating yourself up, you should be congratulating yourself on your decision to learn more in order to help Jeter. In particular you should give yourself one HUMUNGOUS pat on the back for choosing to learn to home test. That decision you made protected Jeter last night. Well done!

And have another .


Mogs
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My syringes were also U100 for Novolin N. They had half unit markings with orange cap.

 

Yes I have the u100 syringes with an orange cap. They hold 50 units and I didnt see half unit markings unless I am reading it wrong. Vet visit today- Jeter has a fever and is started on antibiotic with blood drawn for a full panel. The vet is thinking he is anemic due to the thin quality of the blood and that this could indicate that his kidneys aren't functioning well. Will find out more when the panel comes back. In the meantime he said to hold off on the insulin.

 

Glad that you took him to the vet! And you did a great job last night! I know that you had to have been terrified!

 

Mine didn't, they only have the 1 unit markings. It would have been nice to have this 1/2 markings