Junior's #s have been high then now are low.

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Suzzel & Junior, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/feline-health-the-main-forum.28/

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/finally-able-to-breathe-again.185725/


    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/juniors-ss-is-up-insulin-need-updated.185823/

    Been testing him pretty regular and has been in the 200s & 300s with a few 400s. He's on 1unit of Prozinc. Then at the +5 test he was 82mg. Giving high carb food and and retest 30 minutes and now he's 96mg. Giving more high carb food and gonna retest in 30 minutes. Not hypo numbers but to low for this momma to feel comfortable. May also give Karo at next testing of it hasn't come up very much. Did I miss something or do something wrong?
     
  2. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    His SS is up to date.
     
  3. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    That 82 is a great number and it's at or near the expected nadir time for ProZinc (usually half way through the cycle). You would step in with high carb food only if BG is near 50 on a human meter. With the 82 you could have let him coast to see what he'd do the rest of the cycle.

    Having said that, I know how hard it is to decide what to do when you're new to this. After you have a ton of BG data on your SS you'll see his response patterns and be more confident in addressing the BG levels. It takes time to learn this and you're doing great! :) Always post for advice if you're unsure. Right now, the 1 unit dose looks good and you're doing really well with testing.
     
  4. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Sorry just found this post. Still figuring this stuff out. Thank you so much for your help. Yes I'm still terrified when it gets that low after almost losing him Friday. I'm having to learn how to breathe all over again. And to top things today was the first time in like a week that I left him to go to an appointment out of town. Granted it was only a few hours and I worried to death about him, I thought he be fine since he's been testing higher. Then I hurried home and test him and get a low number and had a break down.
     
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I saw on your first thread that your baby was on a super high insulin dose. Thank heavens you came here and took it down to the usual starting dose of 1 unit twice a day. Those recent blues and greens are very nice and you'll learn to be calmer when they happen. You're doing the best thing you can do to keep him safe - testing BG. And when in doubt, post here for help! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
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  6. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Thank you again. This sure has been a wild ride, not one I'd recommend though but with this group one that's easier to survive. I hope to one day be a bit more calm and not have a panic attack when it's super high or gets below 100. Oh and to be able to sleep longer than a couple of hours at a time without waking and freaking out wondering if he's ok or in trouble.
     
  7. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    You'll get there!!! Give it time...it's always hardest at the first, but you'll reach a point where it isn't as nerve wracking!
     
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  8. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Thank you! Man I hope! I know we've just begun but dang does he have to throw everything at me at once. LOL
     
  9. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Wow! look at this nice numbers! I do understand that you've had a bit of trauma around all of this in your first few days, so your reaction is very understandable. Sending you hugs and a virtual class of wine....or tea...whichever you find more soothing!

    As Kris said, it was a safe number, and close to nadir which makes it extra safe, but you'll start to feel more comfortable with it as the days go on. You can always post in those scary moments, and since it can be a little quiet around here during the day, you can also post out in Main for things like that. Sometimes just having someone reassure you that he's safe can do wonders!

    Overall though, I'm super excited to see him get such a great response on just one unit! Hopefully those safe greens will start to show up more often and begin to bring the PS's down as well!
     
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  10. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Thank you! I'll take all the hugs and positivity I can oh and that glass of wine too. LOL. Yeah it was scary since it hadn't been that low since his hypo Friday and I freaked. But to know that there was help out there and that I knew what to do if I needed to do was a big help. Hopefully as my nerves calm down I don't panic every time he farts sideways, I'll be better to able to handle these situations. He's so tired of me poking him with needles, bless his heart. I hate hurting him, but I know it's for the best and some day maybe I won't have to do it as often. I keep telling him momma loves him but he just screams louder, poor baby. I hope I'm not the only one that has one that screams every time they see them with a needle. It rips my heart out and I know it's for the best but it's hard.
     
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    By screaming, do you mean like a loud meow? Or an actual cat scream? Mine used to make a loud grumpy meow when it was testing time, and a little bark when I stabbed him. No screams though. He's better now, but he does still bark sometimes. I hope Junior settles down for you soon. They do get used to it all, especially if they get extra treats along with the pokes. There are lots of freeze dried, no-carb treats that work wonders to win them over to all of this!
     
  12. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    It's a, I'm pissed at you and if you don't stop stabbing me, I'm gonna gonna rip you arm off and beat you with it. It's not a cry of pain but a I'm really mad and you're gonna pay for what you're doing to me cry. Of course I can't blame him, he went from only being poked a few times in his life to several/multiple time a day. I'd probably be pissed too.
     
  13. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear....but he's letting you do it anyway? Or are you having to hold him down? Are you giving him treats for each poke? I'm so sorry to hear he's reacting like that (although your description did kind of make me chuckle :p) Are you rubbing/scratching his ears at non-test times so he has some positive associations with it too?

    It looks like you are home with him most days, is that right? You can probably skip the +1 or +2 tests, and just have the first test after closer to the nadir. So maybe wait and have the first test around +4 or +5? Give him a couple less stabs/day as he adjusts to all of this?
     
  14. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Oh no I have to hold him down and usually try to wrap a towel around him, but you probably know that when a cat isn't happy they grow extra legs/feet. Sometimes it is a real struggle but if you I don't laugh at it I'd sit and cry and I've already done enough of that. Oh he lets me brush when I'm in the bathroom and I have to turn his water on so he can get a drink. He still is sleeping with me on my pillow and will let me scratch him aslong as I don't bother his beauty sleep to much. LOL. Of course I give him lots of hugs and kisses through out the day but he usually just gives me a disgusted look and has to rewash himself. Yes thankfully I am home with him right now and will be for awhile, my job is kind of a seasonal thing. I'm trying to spread the testing out some but if him is acting odd to me, I freak yet and test him. Believe it or not the 2 test over night was done with alittle less screaming and my bloodshed. LOL. My mom has always told me I'm good for a laugh so I'm glad I gave you one, trust me it won't be the last. And once again thank you for your help and support.
     
  15. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Well Junior's +3 & +4 test are 59 & 55!!!! What is going on? Lower than yesterday now. Yes I gave Karo this time, way toooo close to that bad #50. What else can I do to? He's starting to not want canned food now, not even his favorite canned science diet. I'm at a loss. Help.....
     
  16. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Well his +5 was 104 and +6 is 194. What is causing him to go so low in the afternoons now? What can I do and how can I get him to eat?
     
  17. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/members/djamila.13192/

    This is from Sharon14:
    You’re getting really good at this! Is Junior accepting the tests better? Not sure on the drops, but maybe the insulin brings him down and then next cycle is a bounce. He hasn’t gone too low, but it may be that he needs a smidge less insulin to level out. The prozinc guys, Rachel, Djamila and others will be better able to help you with that.
     
  18. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Woah Junior! Look at you, buddy!

    That's an awfully early time to get such a low number...you did exactly the right thing! I'm sorry we weren't around...we're often not in the afternoon. I see you posted on Health too..that's what I'd do whenever you get a lower number (post both there and here so you can get more eyes on it :) ).

    You may want to give a bit less insulin...perhaps going up to 1 unit was a bit too much. Could you eyeball 0.75? That's probably what I'd do since today's number was low at such an early hour. Let's see what others say though...I might be too conservative sometimes. :)
     
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  19. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree that you should try eyeballing 0.75 u. Maybe make up a reference syringe for this dose using coloured water so you can be consistent from shot to shot at this dose. Consistency is more important than absolute accuracy.
     
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  20. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    I was wondering if I should reduce his insulin just a bit. I finally got my new syringes and I ended up ordering the wrong ones. Crap!!!! They're u40 but not the 1/2 unit ones. I could have swore I ordered the right ones. I went back and checked and I must've selected the wrong ones and of course I didn't know it till I opened them and now I can't return them. Double crap!!!! What I had were the green ones and now have the purple ones, atleast they're easier to see between the units so I'll be able to judge it better.
     
  21. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree with everyone else, drop to 0.75u, and HOORAY!

    If he goes low again, try giving him regular food, or maybe medium carb food (10-15% carbs) and then re-test in 20-30 minutes. If that doesn't stall the slide, or raise it a bit, then you can bring out the high carb.

    Giving Karo is pretty hard on their system, so it's better save it for an emergency - like if they don't stop sliding despite a LC or MC snack, or are showing a symptomatic hypo. It's so high carb that it can make their numbers more unstable for a few days afterwards. It might help to take a look at a few spreadsheets (maybe start with @Kris & Teasel since she's had some action in the past couple of weeks) to see how tough our kitties are. I don't want you to be complacent about hypos, but just to find some comfort and reassurance.

    You're going to have nerves of steel by the time this is all sorted! ;):p:bighug:
     
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  22. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    I tried food first today but he wasn't having it. He literally took a couple of licks and that was it. So I waited and did the second test and it had dropped lower so I tried food again and it was even his favorite science diet and he absolutely refused it so that's why I pulled out the Karo. What would be considered as medium carb, just curious? So now I'm with holding food in hopes he'll eat here after bit when I need to give him his shot. I hope you're right about the nerves of steel, man! Atleast today when he tested low, Im happy to say I didn't freak as much. I started with food and then rechecked then I posted for advice. I was like ok we can do this and we'll gonna get through this.
     
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  23. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why he wouldn't eat? I can see how that would have added a bit to your stress!

    Here is a link to the food chart most of us use: http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

    Medium Carb isn't exactly defined, but I would call it anything around 10-15%ish.

    In no time you're going to be the one coaching other people through their low numbers!
     
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  24. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Yeah him not eating wasn't helping. LOL. Maybe he's just tired of me picking at him? Well the little stinker better eat tonight or momma is gonna have a meltdown. I'm gonna look over the list and guess try something different. It's gonna be awhile yet but I hope I can pay it forward and help someone like you all have done for me. Thank you!
     
  25. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Small victory but made this momma's heart so very happy! He actually wanted to eat, wasn't much, maybe a fourth of a can and yes it was his science diet, but YAY!!!!! I'll take it, something is better than nothing. :)
     
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  26. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    What are you feeding him (or trying to feed him:rolleyes:).
     
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  27. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Well he won't touch the fancy fest so I am trying to get him to eat canned science diet, that's what I had him on before and he used to love it.
     
  28. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    What are the color/number range I want him in to be ok? I did get him to eat alittle bit more just a short time ago and got him to eat a few bits of tuna after I tested him. His numbers have been 85, 77, 76 over this night. Would he be at nadir?
     
  29. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    The most important thing is that he eat, but having said that, As you know all Science Diet is high carb, have you tried mixing them? Or maybe some other foods? Looks like he’s had another nice cycle on the lower dose!
     
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  30. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Would him not wanting food be from his levels not being so high and his body not needing it?
     
  31. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Yeah I was doing that for awhile till he figured out what I was doing. Then he just would stare at me like I was stupid for trying it. LOL.
     
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  32. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Greens are good, just stay above the 50 mark. There’s more info on regulation numbers in the prozinc stickies. Some nondiabetic cats have numbers below 50, but when they are on insulin, we want to keep them above that. And yes, my cat eats less when he’s in normal numbers. But he has to eat enough to maintain his weight. Some weigh their cats weekly to monitor.
     
  33. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to add normal numbers on human meter is 50-120
     
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  34. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    I guess I'm so used to him eating all the time from before he was diagnosed and recently that not wanting food has scared me and this is the first time his numbers have been like this since we joined. So the numbers he's at right now are good, right?
     
  35. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    He seems to be acting ok, he's up moving around (running from me I should say) washing himself, I got him to play too earlier. I guess I'm used to him eating and drinking almost non stop that for him to act like my other cats is throwing me for a loop.
     
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  36. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    My cat will eat anytime I put food out, so I can’t imagine having one that won’t eat! That would scare me too!!!! Yes the greens are good. You want to keep an eye and get some more tests to be sure he’s rising. We don’t really know when his nadir is yet since you gave the Karo and brought him up fast (understandably)
    Since you have other cats, try testing one and you’ll see what normal is!
     
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  37. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    I really appreciate you coming on and checking on us. I was really needing someone to reassure me about his numbers. Thank you!!!
     
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  38. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    What time do you shoot? I’m thinking it’s when most of us are asleep
     
  39. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    What number would he have to be at or below for me to not shoot at his next time?
     
  40. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    I do 12/12
     
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  41. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    We usually say no shot under 200, and as you learn your cat, you can change that. The others will be better able to guide you on that. Ask them today so you’ll be prepared. I only used prozinc for a short while and my cat has a high dose condition so I never learned ‘normal’ dosing.
     
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  42. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Ok I will definitely be reaching out to the others. Thank you again for your time this morning.
     
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  43. Suzzel & Junior

    Suzzel & Junior Member

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    Just retested and he's at 129mg. Ok he's going back up and not any lower, I can breathe now.
     
  44. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Good morning! Those are great numbers during the mid cycle! Junior is doing so well! `So it looks like at least for this cycle, his nadir is around +5-6 which is exactly normal on prozinc.

    One of the things about feeding higher carb foods (like the science diet) is that it will make their numbers more volatile. Cats on low carb food who are being monitored and dosed carefully, will usually keep themselves in safe numbers. On higher carb diets, their bodies can't regulate as effectively so you'll get bigger dips and bounces. You are monitoring a lot right now, so that will keep him safe, but getting him on lower carb food will help lower your stress level!

    However, it is a challenge to find one he'll eat. One trick is to get some freeze dried chicken and crush it up and sprinkle it on the food. Another version of that is using Fortiflora. It's technically a probiotic, but it doesn't work very well in that regard. However, it has a taste and many cats will go crazy for. I've often said that Sam would eat a shoe if I sprinkled Fortiflora on it.

    And finally, just keep trying different foods until you find one he'll eat. Have you tried the Friskies? Mine won't eat Fancy Feast either. They look at me like I've insulted them. But they love the Friskies Mixed Grill. They also really like Primal Freeze Dried Turkey (you have to add water and mix it up).

    Here is a link to the Foriflora if you want to give it a try. It isn't sold in regular stores, but you can buy it at some vets, Amazon, and Chewy.com.

    https://www.amazon.com/Purina-Forti...TF8&qid=1509104595&sr=8-2&keywords=fortiflora
     
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