Just diagnosed and not sure I'm able to give proper care

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Bree

Bree

Member Since 2016
Hi all,
My cat, Kai, was diagnosed in late September. Her blood sugar was still reasonable enough that the vet felt we could try a diet switch for about a month to see if that helped. I took Kai back on Thursday and her test results showed that the condition was worsening and now wants to start her on glargine.
Sparing you the whole story, here are my main points of concern:
1. I am broke. I am a nursing student on a very fixed budget. I have no money coming in and a lot going out! The cost of in the insulin seems doable, but my vet also wants Kai to have monthly blood work to the tune of ~$120. I'm also sure you are aware that cost of diabetic foods are not cheap either.
2. As I said, I am studying nursing, so my schedule is often long and unpredictable. Sometimes I am gone longer than 12 hours (which makes a 12 hour injection schedule complicated). I am new to the area so don't know any neighbors and most of my friends are also in the nursing program. I know it's possible to find pet sitters to help with injections, but I am concerned about the additional cost of this.
3. Given my situation, I can't help but think I may not be the best person to provide sweet Kai the care she needs and deserves.
I would imagine that many of you have similar experiences, so I'd really be grateful for any advice and guidance.
Many thanks,
Bree and Kai
 
Sending a warm Welcome to you and your extra sweet kitty. When my cat was first diagnosed I had many of the very same concerns and worries but I can assure you that feline diabetes is very treatable and there are ways to manage the costs of insulin and supplies.

There is a lot to learn in the beginning but you have found a wonderful place where all of us have been exactly where you are and we will help you as much as we can to learn to take care of your kitty.

1. My first tip is that you do not need to take the cat for expensive blood work at the vets office. The very best way to see how your cat is responding to insulin is to get a human meter and learn to test blood sugar levels at home. I know way more about what is happening inside my cat on a daily basis than my vet does because I test frequently.
2. Second, you don't need expensive prescription food. A low carb wet food like Fancy Feast is very affordable and appropriate for diabetic kitties.
It will help us assist you better if we know a few more things about your treatment plan. Have you started insulin yet? Do you know what kind of insulin the vet wants you to use? What type of food is your kitty eating now?
 
Welcome.
- There is no need for prescription food. All yo need is a low-carb canned. Here is a listing of commercial, cow-carb canned:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/shortcut-shopping-list-all-8-or-less-updated.117688/
- No reason for periodic blood tests at the vet. Most of use here test our cat's blood sugar using a human meter like Walmart's ReliOn Confirm or Confirm Micro.
Most of us here test our cat's blood glucose at home using a human meter. We test before each shot and periodically between shots. We record our reading and other info in a spreadsheet. See:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
Here is a link to home testing blood sugar
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
- Yes, using Lantus (Glargine) is not the best if yo can't do a 12/12 hour schedule. However, a few years ago I was on an 8/16 hour schedule on the weekends and use Lantus and it was OK.
Also, you can order Lantus and Levemir from a Canadian pharmacy like
https://rxcanada4less.com/
at a very very reasonable price. YO do need to send then a prescription from your vet.
- An insulin like ProZinc is better for uneven schedule. However, it is more expensive than getting Lantus/Levemir from Canada.
 
Hi adding my agreement with those above who said this is do-able without the expensive regular blood work and outrageously costly actually-not-the-best-diet-for-a-diabetic-cat prescription food! Initially the thought of the expense involved is daunting but it really can be done far more affordable than it first seems. Many buy their insulin from a less expensive supplier so there are ways to save on that expense as well:bighug:
The home meters for testing are not expensive and you may find one on the supply closet forum. Worth checking!
Hang in there, there is lots of great help, support, and advice from real experience here:bighug:
 
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANKS!! Wow, such great, gracious and encouraging advice here. I am all choked up because it is sounding so much more hopeful than I was thinking.
I have not started my insulin protocol yet. In the big picture, I have to say that I am most concerned about the 12/12 schedule. Well, and the money, but that's not looking as grim now. I guess I'd like to know what questions I should be asking my vet about the types of insulin and how best to adjust for my schedule, etc. I plan to put a call into her tomorrow with a list of questions.
I have been feeding her the Hills/Science Diet diabetic prescription diet. But, another piece of good news is that I may have access to discounted raw food from Darwin's (https://www.darwinspet.com), but my vet told me that raw diets are not ideal for a number of reasons. I'm kind of suspicious of this and hate to turn down a less expensive, and seemingly healthy, option.
Also...and this is a big one...how do you even begin this process?!
 
Never panic, keep everything close at hand, your meter can give you different readings just minutes apart, if he goes too low make sure your honey hasn't crystalized (we keep corn syrup as well) and when it comes to money just be up front with your vet about what is suggested and what is absolutely necessary. Gotta go, making Sunday cookies!
 
Bree said:
I am most concerned about the 12/12 schedule.
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Some insulins are more flexible in that regard. ProZinc is fairly flexible whereas the L insulins (Lantus and Levemir) are more stringent in the timing needed. They can accommodate the odd "off time" but you must sytsematically get yourself back to your standard schedule over a couple of days. Could be hard if your schedule is very erratic and unpredictable. You can accommodate that more easily with ProZinc by adjusting the dose.

Bree said:
the money,
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ProZinc is expensive no matter where you buy it. Lantus is purchased by many on here from a Canadian pharmacy (Marks Marine Pharmacy) at a much better price.
Bree said:
I'm kind of suspicious of this and hate to turn down a less expensive, and seemingly healthy, option.
Click to expand...
I have no experience feeding raw food but many here can advise you on that. If you are philosophically OK (additives, etc.) with grocery store brands, Fancy Feast and Friskies pates (not the sauce/gravy types) are used by many of us and they're very economical.
Bree said:
how do you even begin this process?!
Click to expand...
  • meet with vet to discuss and assess vet's attititudes toward home testing of blood glucose, insulins to use, starting doses, etc.
  • go buy human glucose meter (even if vet says don't bother!) and learn to test BG at home
  • switch kitty to low carb wet food and begin accumulating BG data BEFORE starting insulin. A week should suffice.
  • post here telling us vet's advice for type of insulin and dose before administering. They often want to start at too high a dose.
  • if you've been strong-armed into having BG done at vet's to determine starting dose post here for advice. Kitties are often stressed there which can raise BG and cause a too high dose to be prescribed.
  • set up a spreadsheet of the type we use here so we can see your BG data as you begin a low dose on Kai. This is how we're able to assess the situation and provide guidance. There are techies here to help with the SS.
 
I'm guessing that the Hills prescription food is pretty high in carbs. It is MUCH MUCH easier to make a food switch now to low carb (less than 10% carbs is what we generally aim for) wet food before you begin insulin!

I would suggest that you begin your treatment there. Changing the food to low carb wet food can have a significant impact on blood sugar levels and the amount of insulin a cat needs can change quickly and significantly. Read information HERE from Dr. Lisa Pierson, about feline nutrition and specifically feeding diabetic cats and how to safely switch to low carb foods while doing insulin therapy. I didn't know any of this when my cat was diagnosed and wish that I had because the beginning of our journey with FD would have been so much easier.
 
Hello, Bree and Kai, and welcome to FDMB, the best place you never wanted to be! Feline diabetes is very treatable, and maybe not as costly as you may think. You can sometimes get deals on insulin (check out our Supply Closet) and you definitely don't need to feed expensive, "prescription" food!

Don't be daunted if your vet is not very supportive of home testing; some are, but it seems a lot are not, no idea why (except they make money off you bringing your kitty in every couple of weeks for tests there). Also don't let her talk you into buying a pet-specific meter, they are expensive and the test strips are not only exorbitant but they are also only available online or at your vet's. Trust me, you will use a lot of test strips! A lot of us here use the Walmart Relion meters, they're inexpensive, and the strips are more affordable and more readily available. You'll find most things here are geared toward using a human meter.

I second what Jan has told you - much easier to make your diet change NOW before you start insulin!

I can't speak to scheduling problems because I am here 24/7, but I do know many people with difficult schedules have managed, so it is definitely do-able.

We're here any time you need help or have questions, and will do our best to share our knowledge and help provide guidance. :):):)
 
As someone who started feeding raw more than 15 years ago, long before it was even thought of all I can say is fooey at the notion it is not good for cats and especially diabetic cats! All the better if you can get your cat transitioned to the Darwins as it is great raw food.....
Edited to add..how to begin this process? you have already begun, you reached out here!:bighug:
 
Welcome, Bree and Kai.

Very glad you found FDMB and that you're feeling a wee bit better about things. :bighug:

Bree said:
My cat, Kai, was diagnosed in late September. Her blood sugar was still reasonable enough that the vet felt we could try a diet switch for about a month to see if that helped. I took Kai back on Thursday and her test results showed that the condition was worsening
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1. Can you let us know the food(s) you switched to in order to see whether Kai's blood glucose levels might improve enough. Is it correct that you have been feeding the new diet since late September?

2. Can you let us know what level the blood glucose (BG) was before the food switch and also the BG at the check-up last Thursday.

Bree said:
Sometimes I am gone longer than 12 hours (which makes a 12 hour injection schedule complicated).
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Thinking of cost of insulin - if Lantus (ETA - from Canada) is the most affordable option maybe we might be able to help you find a way to work with it in your particular situation. Doesn't hurt to explore possibilities. :)

If you can let us know more about how much variation there is in your own schedule then perhaps experienced Lantus members might be able to give you some suggestions about ways it might be possible to treat Kai with Lantus in a way that suits your schedule.


Mogs
.
 
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Some answers now and some to come!
Re: diet - Kind of a complicated answer and looking back, I seem to have my dates a bit mixed up. I switched Kai to the Hills diet the first week of November and, of course, that involved transitioning from what I had been feeding her (which was a mix of Trader Joe's canned and a dry food). I then began a mix of Hills (dry and wet) and Darwin's beginning just after Thanksgiving. Across the past week, I've been feeding her either a mix of Darwin's and Hills (WET ONLY) or just Darwin's. This may be too confusing and complicated to be of any help.
She had blood work on October 26th, which indicated the elevated BG, and was rechecked on December 15th...the interim between marks the time we played with her diet.
I don't have her BG numbers, but will get them from the vet tomorrow.
Thank you again...and more to come!
 
Hi and welcome! Looks like you're already getting a lot of info and encouragement from the folks here. I'll just add that I have been feeding my cats Darwin's for years with no ill effects. I would make their raw food myself but I've been a vegetarian for most of my life and I have to admit, I just can't bring myself to doing it. It's great if you are able to get the Darwin's at a discount, that should help.
 
Hi and welcome.
I started to feed my cat raw/homemade food 3 years ago and she has thrived on it. Dont let the vet talk you out of it if you want to feed the raw. My vet was very sceptical at first too but now agrees she is doing well on it.
I would invest in an automatic feeder so you can leave food out for Kai . Not sure where you live but here is a link to buying it in the US. You might be able to get it cheaper....look online. It is worth its weight in gold. I use mine every day. It is fine to put wet/raw food in it
http://store.petsafe.net/5-meal-timed-pet-feeder#
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Hi and welcome.
I started to feed my cat raw/homemade food 3 years ago and she has thrived on it. Dont let the vet talk you out of it if you want to feed the raw. My vet was very sceptical at first too but now agrees she is doing well on it.
I would invest in an automatic feeder so you can leave food out for Kai . Not sure where you live but here is a link to buying it in the US. You might be able to get it cheaper....look online. It is worth its weight in gold. I use mine every day. It is fine to put wet/raw food in it
http://store.petsafe.net/5-meal-timed-pet-feeder#
Click to expand...

I free feed Kai, with a meal in the morning and one in the evening. What is the advantage of the automatic feeder? Is it so you can ensure you feed exactly the same times each day?
 
Bree said:
What is the advantage of the automatic feeder? Is it so you can ensure you feed exactly the same times each day?
Click to expand...

Most cats do better with small, mini-meals instead of 2 big ones....just like humans are told to eat multiple small meals instead of 3 meals a day! The autofeeders give you the option to leave food down at pre-determined times while you're at work or away from home and can't be there to feed.
 
Just want to chime n about the raw food. My cats have been on raw food for 9 years. My vet wasnt thrilled with it at first. Now he thinks its fine and thinks its the best food Katie can have.
 
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Hi Bree,

Bree said:
Some answers now and some to come!
Re: diet - Kind of a complicated answer and looking back, I seem to have my dates a bit mixed up. I switched Kai to the Hills diet the first week of November and, of course, that involved transitioning from what I had been feeding her (which was a mix of Trader Joe's canned and a dry food). I then began a mix of Hills (dry and wet) and Darwin's beginning just after Thanksgiving. Across the past week, I've been feeding her either a mix of Darwin's and Hills (WET ONLY) or just Darwin's.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Sorry to be a nuisance but I need a little bit more information on the exact varieties you've been feeding to Kai, e.g:

Hill's (varieties) - for example: w/d dry/wet; m/d dry/wet; other varieties???

Trader Joe's (variety)

Darwin's (variety)

etc., etc.

If you can give us this info we can look at the carb values for the foods Kai has been eating and it will help us to better understand what has been affecting his BG levels over the last few weeks. :)


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Bree,



Thanks for the info. Sorry to be a nuisance but I need a little bit more information on the exact varieties you've been feeding to Kai, e.g:

Hill's (varieties) - for example: w/d dry/wet; m/d dry/wet; other varieties???

Trader Joe's (variety)

Darwin's (variety)

etc., etc.

If you can give us this info we can look at the carb values for the foods Kai has been eating and it will help us to better understand what has been affecting his BG levels over the last few weeks. :)


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize! I just didn't realize you needed those details and I know you are only trying to help!
Trader Joes - Turkey & Giblets Dinner (wet food)
Hill's - Glucose/Weight Management m/d wet and dry
Darwin's - All wet varieties; duck, turkey and chicken

Also, I just spoke with the vet again. The good news is she was supportive of home glucose testing, but she still recommended monthly fructosamine, at least initially. She thought if I could do a weekly glucose curve, that would be helpful. The bad news is I'm back to feeling overwhelmed and less hopeful about my situation.

Kai's BG at her last visit was 385 and her fructosamine was 439 (up from 389 in October).

A few additional questions (more to come, I'm sure!):
1. How often are you checking BG (outside of doing a curve)?
2. What are some good diabetic friendly treats?
3. With being gone so much during the day, how concerned do I need to be about not being able to monitor for hypoglycemia?
 
Bree said:
How often are you checking BG (outside of doing a curve)?
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We recommend checking before every insulin injection: test BG, feed, inject insulin. Do this AM and PM. Try to fit in one other test each day around the middle of a cycle (cycle = time between doses). It can be late evening when you're out all day, overnight if you get out of bed to use the washroom, through the day when you're off. It's very flexible.
Bree said:
What are some good diabetic friendly treats?
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There is a variety of freeze dried meat/fish treats available in pet stores. I've used both the Pure Bites and Orijen brands.
Bree said:
With being gone so much during the day, how concerned do I need to be about not being able to monitor for hypoglycemia?
Click to expand...
The way to start is at a low, safe dose of insulin and test BG to see how Kai does. It's important to accumulate as much data as you can so you can see her patterns. As the dose is slowly raised and you add to your data log, you'll find out whether the insulin causes her to drop slowly and gently and how low she goes. The reason we ask you to post all the data on a spreadsheet is so other experienced people here can look at it and give you advice on how to proceed.
 
Bree, breathe honey, try not to get overwhelmed. It's tough in the beginning. Glad you vet is on board with home testing. It's the best way to help your kitty. As far as the fructosamine, maybe once you get your tests in and give her a copy of your readings (I emailed them to my vet, and sent him the link to the spreadsheet) maybe the vet won't require them.

Since you haven't started insulin yet I say ditch the dry food now. Nothing wrong with raw or homemade cat food. As long as they contain the necessary nutrients.

As far as testing glucose, you would test minimum before each injection of insulin. One before you go to bed is always good idea so you know kitty is safe overnight. If your off on weekends or holidays you can get extra tests in.

Automatic feeder is a wonderful tool in my opinion. If your running late, kitty will still get fed. And the middle of the night feedings, it's invaluable.
 
Hi Bree,

Bree said:
I switched Kai to the Hills diet the first week of November and, of course, that involved transitioning from what I had been feeding her (which was a mix of Trader Joe's canned and a dry food). I then began a mix of Hills (dry and wet) and Darwin's beginning just after Thanksgiving.
Click to expand...

Here's an idea of the amount of carbs in the foods you've been using that I could find info for:

* Trader Joes - Turkey & Giblets Dinner (wet food) ----------------> 9% kcal from carbs (from catinfo.org list)
* Hill's - Glucose/Weight Management m/d wet ------------------->14% kcal from carbs (from catinfo.org list)
* Hill's - Glucose/Weight Management m/d dry ------------------->16.5% kcal from carbs (own calc based on data from Hill's website)
* Darwin's turkey unpasteurised raw --------------------------------> 8% kcal from carbs (from catinfo.org list)

For a feline diabetic it is recommended to feed a wet food with less than 10% kilocalories from carbohydrates. As you can see, the Hill's prescription foods are too high in carbohydrates. (FYI Hill's w/d is even higher in carbs than the m/d!).

* Fructosamine was 389 in October when you were feeding Kai his old diet. (Trader Joes canned + unspecified dry diet.)
* Fructosamine was 439 on December 15th - after 2-3 weeks of feeding the mix of Darwin's and Hill's m/d (both wet and dry).

If Kai's old diet was lower in carbs overall then the Hill's m/d diet may have contributed to the higher December fructosamine value.

As a rough guide to what the fructosamine tests mean, here is the reference range for cats (from MSD Animal Health's UK website):

Cats Fructosamine values (micromol/l)
Normal non-diabetic cat 190-365
Newly diagnosed diabetic cat 350-730
Treated diabetic cats:
Excellent control 350-400
Good control 400-450
Fair control 450-500
Poor control >500

Kai's fructosamine levels are still at the lower end of the diabetic range. I hope that makes you feel a little bit more hopeful.

Bree said:
Kai's BG at her last visit was 385
Click to expand...
Without home BG levels it's not possible to be sure, but there is a chance that this value may have been raised a little by vet stress. It's still in the diabetic range but she might be running a little lower at home.

To help you find diabetic-friendly commercial foods here's a link to the FDMB US shortcut food list to help you find low carb commercial foods for Kai.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/shortcut-shopping-list-all-8-or-less-updated.117688/

The list is in the opening post on the thread. Find the "Click to Expand" instruction to display it on the screen.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Hi Bree,



Here's an idea of the amount of carbs in the foods you've been using that I could find info for:

* Trader Joes - Turkey & Giblets Dinner (wet food) ----------------> 9% kcal from carbs (from catinfo.org list)
* Hill's - Glucose/Weight Management m/d wet ------------------->14% kcal from carbs (from catinfo.org list)
* Hill's - Glucose/Weight Management m/d dry ------------------->16.5% kcal from carbs (own calc based on data from Hill's website)
* Darwin's turkey unpasteurised raw --------------------------------> 8% kcal from carbs (from catinfo.org list)

For a feline diabetic it is recommended to feed a wet food with less than 10% kilocalories from carbohydrates. As you can see, the Hill's prescription foods are too high in carbohydrates. (FYI Hill's w/d is even higher in carbs than the m/d!).

* Fructosamine was 389 in October when you were feeding Kai his old diet. (Trader Joes canned + unspecified dry diet.)
* Fructosamine was 439 on December 15th - after 2-3 weeks of feeding the mix of Darwin's and Hill's m/d (both wet and dry).

If Kai's old diet was lower in carbs overall then the Hill's m/d diet may have contributed to the higher December fructosamine value.

As a rough guide to what the fructosamine tests mean, here is the reference range for cats (from MSD Animal Health's UK website):

Cats Fructosamine values (micromol/l)
Normal non-diabetic cat 190-365
Newly diagnosed diabetic cat 350-730
Treated diabetic cats:
Excellent control 350-400
Good control 400-450
Fair control 450-500
Poor control >500

Kai's fructosamine levels are still at the lower end of the diabetic range. I hope that makes you feel a little bit more hopeful.


Without home BG levels it's not possible to be sure, but there is a chance that this value may have been raised a little by vet stress. It's still in the diabetic range but she might be running a little lower at home.

To help you find diabetic-friendly commercial foods here's a link to the FDMB US shortcut food list to help you find low carb commercial foods for Kai.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/shortcut-shopping-list-all-8-or-less-updated.117688/

The list is in the opening post on the thread. Find the "Click to Expand" instruction to display it on the screen.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
Click to expand...
You are so wonderful Mogs!
It's beyond irritating to think that the diet switch may have made things worse for Kai. It's looking like I will be able to have continued access to discounted Darwin's food (which is the lowest in carbs!), so I'm going to stick with it and ditch that m/d nonsense.
And the values do make me feel a bit better!
Thank you again
 
Have a look at Frankie's spreadsheet from 2015 and have a look now. It may take a while, but eventually you will get to a dose that seems to shift the numbers. There was a time I thought Frankie would never see yellow, let alone green! And one day for him, things just suddenly fell into place and the bouncing stopped. Just keep on keeping on, you can only do your best and the rest is down to the cat and we know how unpredictable they can be.
 
@Kris & Teasel -

Just tagging you to have a look at Frankie's spreadsheets (see Sue's post above). I thought it might be helpful for you to see a cat who became less 'bouncy'. Might give you some ideas for Teasel.


Mogs
.
 
Bree said:
No need to apologize! I just didn't realize you needed those details and I know you are only trying to help!
Trader Joes - Turkey & Giblets Dinner (wet food)
Hill's - Glucose/Weight Management m/d wet and dry
Darwin's - All wet varieties; duck, turkey and chicken

Also, I just spoke with the vet again. The good news is she was supportive of home glucose testing, but she still recommended monthly fructosamine, at least initially. She thought if I could do a weekly glucose curve, that would be helpful. The bad news is I'm back to feeling overwhelmed and less hopeful about my situation.

Kai's BG at her last visit was 385 and her fructosamine was 439 (up from 389 in October).

A few additional questions (more to come, I'm sure!):
1. How often are you checking BG (outside of doing a curve)?
2. What are some good diabetic friendly treats?
3. With being gone so much during the day, how concerned do I need to be about not being able to monitor for hypoglycemia?
Click to expand...

welcome, bree. you have gotten lots of excellent advice here. glad to hear things don't feel as dark as they did at the onset.

1. i always test before shots. i like to test at +6 if i can. just before bed is a good time too.
2. mr b loves origen freeze dried treats, any flavor. no junk in them, no carbs. vital essentials freeze dried treats are good too. duck liver is his favorite. again, no junk, no carbs. all pure dried organs.
3. as kris stated, starting with a low dose, gathering as much home testing BG #'s as possible, slowly increasing. i think its one of our biggest fears having a kitty get too low when we're not at home.

after reading all the posts i am wondering at this point how much of a BG difference you will see when you switch to 100% low carb wet food (and no dry). it might be best to do the food switch before starting insulin. with some cats the difference can be substantial, to such a degree that it is not advised to start insulin AND switch to low carb foods at the same time.

keep us posted! :)
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Hi and welcome.
I started to feed my cat raw/homemade food 3 years ago and she has thrived on it. Dont let the vet talk you out of it if you want to feed the raw. My vet was very sceptical at first too but now agrees she is doing well on it.
I would invest in an automatic feeder so you can leave food out for Kai . Not sure where you live but here is a link to buying it in the US. You might be able to get it cheaper....look online. It is worth its weight in gold. I use mine every day. It is fine to put wet/raw food in it
http://store.petsafe.net/5-meal-timed-pet-feeder#
Click to expand...
katiesmom said:
Just want to chime n about the raw food. My cats have been on raw food for 7 years. My vet wasnt thrilled with it at first. Now he thinks its fine and thinks its the best food Katie can have.
Click to expand...

-----apologies for hijacking this portion of your thread, bree-----

my vets have not been thrilled with the raw food either that i'm doing with mr b. recent bloodwork gave us a scare that his kidneys might be failing, but followup tests proved they are fine. one of the flags is his BUN which is elevated, but once i reminded the vet that he's eating raw, she said its probably that, and that i should cut back on it and give him more canned. wugh. me no likey.

so thats to ask you both if you have had any elevated BUN on your babies, if thats a concern, or what. i dont want to do canned if i can help it. it just doesnt make sense. thanks!~
 
Bree said:
You are so wonderful Mogs!
It's beyond irritating to think that the diet switch may have made things worse for Kai. It's looking like I will be able to have continued access to discounted Darwin's food (which is the lowest in carbs!), so I'm going to stick with it and ditch that m/d nonsense.
And the values do make me feel a bit better!
Thank you again
Click to expand...
How have things been going the past few days? Has the vet prescribed the insulin yet? Need any more help with anything?
 
Misterbeesmom said:
-----apologies for hijacking this portion of your thread, bree-----

my vets have not been thrilled with the raw food either that i'm doing with mr b. recent bloodwork gave us a scare that his kidneys might be failing, but followup tests proved they are fine. one of the flags is his BUN which is elevated, but once i reminded the vet that he's eating raw, she said its probably that, and that i should cut back on it and give him more canned. wugh. me no likey.

so thats to ask you both if you have had any elevated BUN on your babies, if thats a concern, or what. i dont want to do canned if i can help it. it just doesnt make sense. thanks!~
Click to expand...

Hijack away! I'll keep the BUN results in mind. What is your vet's issue with raw? My vet said something about increased risk of infection due to bacteria in the raw food. Seems unlikely.
 
JanetNJ said:
How have things been going the past few days? Has the vet prescribed the insulin yet? Need any more help with anything?
Click to expand...
I haven't started Kai on insulin yet. I've decided to try the low carb raw diet first since her numbers don't seem to be out on hand just yet. I am going to meet with someone on Friday who volunteers with a cat rescue organization and knows a lot about feline diabetes. We are going to come up with a plan together and forge ahead! I'm feeling so grateful for her help and the help on this board.
 
Bree said:
Hijack away! I'll keep the BUN results in mind. What is your vet's issue with raw? My vet said something about increased risk of infection due to bacteria in the raw food. Seems unlikely.
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One vet used the bacteria excuse. I dont know what issue my current vet has with it, i just know she's not crazy about it. She'd rather we use purina dm. Yuck. Its got artificial flavoring in it, for one thing! Its bad enough us humans eat artificial junk. I personally find it repugnant to feed it to an animal. Then there's guar gum, carageenan,....dont get me going! Lol

To me, if a vet is selling dry food, and 'prescription' food, they dont know enough about nutrition. thats probably most vets.

At least the raw movement is catching on despite that.
 
Bree said:
I haven't started Kai on insulin yet. I've decided to try the low carb raw diet first since her numbers don't seem to be out on hand just yet. I am going to meet with someone on Friday who volunteers with a cat rescue organization and knows a lot about feline diabetes. We are going to come up with a plan together and forge ahead! I'm feeling so grateful for her help and the help on this board.
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I suggest adding daily urine ketone monitoring to the plan for the time being - especially as Kai's not on insulin yet. Here are some useful stickies:

Are you testing your kitty for ketones? If not, do it!

Catching and testing urine


Mogs
.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
-----apologies for hijacking this portion of your thread, bree-----

my vets have not been thrilled with the raw food either that i'm doing with mr b. recent bloodwork gave us a scare that his kidneys might be failing, but followup tests proved they are fine. one of the flags is his BUN which is elevated, but once i reminded the vet that he's eating raw, she said its probably that, and that i should cut back on it and give him more canned. wugh. me no likey.

so thats to ask you both if you have had any elevated BUN on your babies, if thats a concern, or what. i dont want to do canned if i can help it. it just doesnt make sense. thanks!~
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@Misterbeesmom - Both of my girls have had bloodwork in the last 3 months. They are 11 & 12 years old. Both of their blood work results were perfect, with the exception of Katie's BG.

I had everything done too, BUN & creatinine well within normal range, and the early kidney function test too, I think it's called the SDMA test. Everything normal, no indication of kidney disease.

And my civvie Anabelle has one bum kidney, they saw it on xrays long ago, thinks its maybe something she was born with, and her kidney tests were normal also.

So I would say the food is not affecting their BUN numbers at all. I have read that a high protein diet or dehydration can elevate the BUN, but it's really the creatinine that is a big indicator of kidney disease anyway, that's the one you have to worry about.

And I am unfortunately well informed about CRF and kidney disease as my previous kitty suffered from it. So I am very familiar with those BUN and creatinine levels. It's nice they have that new SDMA test now, suppose to discover when 25-40% of kidney function is lost, where relying on the conventional bloodwork, 70% of kidney function is lost before it shows up.

BTW, they have been on raw since 2007, so I mistaken earlier, they have been on raw for 9 years, not 7. They were on a commercial raw until 2013, since then I have been making their food.
 
katiesmom said:
@Misterbeesmom - Both of my girls have had bloodwork in the last 3 months. They are 11 & 12 years old. Both of their blood work results were perfect, with the exception of Katie's BG.

I had everything done too, BUN & creatinine well within normal range, and the early kidney function test too, I think it's called the SDMA test. Everything normal, no indication of kidney disease.

And my civvie Anabelle has one bum kidney, they saw it on xrays long ago, thinks its maybe something she was born with, and her kidney tests were normal also.

So I would say the food is not affecting their BUN numbers at all. I have read that a high protein diet or dehydration can elevate the BUN, but it's really the creatinine that is a big indicator of kidney disease anyway, that's the one you have to worry about.

And I am unfortunately well informed about CRF and kidney disease as my previous kitty suffered from it. So I am very familiar with those BUN and creatinine levels. It's nice they have that new SDMA test now, suppose to discover when 25-40% of kidney function is lost, where relying on the conventional bloodwork, 70% of kidney function is lost before it shows up.

BTW, they have been on raw since 2007, so I mistaken earlier, they have been on raw for 9 years, not 7. They were on a commercial raw until 2013, since then I have been making their food.
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Thank u for replying! Good to know. I'm actually a little confused now about what my vet said. Mr b's sdma is high. 18 when should be no higher than 14. BUN is 55, shouldnt be higher than 37. Creatinine is perfect midrange normal. No proteins in urine, nothing bad in urine at all. Its dilute but it has been for months because presumably of unregulated diabetes which means he drinks and pees a lot. Vet initially said early stage kidney disease. Then after the urine came back and after we discussed raw diet, she said kidneys are fine. Does this make sense to you? I lost a cat to renal failure years ago when testing only caught things after symptoms already were showing, and things went badly quickly. I'd like to be ahead of the game this time.
 
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