Just got back from the Vet...

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by TLantMagnus, May 21, 2016.

  1. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    May 21, 2016
    So a continuation from this thread:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hello-the-diabetus-sucks.158121/

    We got Barry to the vet and we are in the car going home. The vet tested his BG and it was 2. This was after we gave him some honey and his regular amount of diabetic food about an hour before.

    Vet said to stop the insulin for now and continue blood tests throughout the day.

    I'll keep everyone posted. Vet said there was a chance the diabetes went into remission. That would be great.

    Oh and the vet gave him some sugar water. He is already better.
     
  2. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Had you given him insulin this morning? If so, sugar water wears off pretty quickly, so checking within about 30 minutes of the sugar water will let you know if he needs a bit more.
     
  3. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    WOW those numbers are still low, but at least they are coming up a bit. What insulin are you using? How many units? How long since you last gave a shot? What type of meter are you using..pet or human?


    Sorry but all these bits of information are necessary in order to give some input from our members.

    Do you have any high carb wet food at home...something with gravy?? You might want to give some HC food since the homey will wear off fairly quickly.

    Setting up a spreadsheet will provide a very useful tool in tracking the numbers and seeing what if any dose of insulin is needed. Instrustion fro setting up a SS are here:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    If you have any problems then just ask for help ( I needed help when I first set mine up :) )

    You are using the mmol/l measurememt so you could use this spreadsheet:

    https://drive.google.com/previewtemplate?id=1JQ136YHkxNhhku9AML_OKGHkrg3Ixe27BWAdWONlnP0&mode=public

    You would enter the values on the world tab abd it will automatically convert to US numbers on the other tab which many of the members here use and understand.


    ETA What type of food are you feeding...dry or wet prescription or regular store bought? Most of the people on here will use Friskies or Fancy Feast pate style which are lower carb. Dry food of any sort is best not used since it is higher in carbs..even the prescription type
     
  4. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    May 21, 2016
    Yeah, we need help lol. This is a new thing for us. Sadly he had another seizure on the car ride home, though it didn't last long and he bounced back really quickly. We gave him a 50/50 water/corn syrup, about a syringe and a half as soon as we got home.

    The insulin we are using is Lantus. And it's about 2 bars worth on the syringe that we were giving him. Our last shot was last night around 9:00 pm Eastern Time. We were using a meter for humans, since ours was fairly close to the Vet's when we brought it in to test it. However, we ordered one specifically for cats, hope to have it no latter than Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. In the interim the Vet lent us his spare.

    We may have some recovery food (wet), if not we can go pick some good balanced stuff today.

    The food we are currently feeding him is Purina Pro Plan Diabetic dry food. We also have a few cans of equivalent wet, but we tend to stick to dry. We feed twice a day, 1/4 cup at each serving. Followed by insulin (which we are stopping now) to see what is up.
    We also have access to this stuff called "Boreal" which has both wet and dry, and is high protein. We have no problems getting high end food for our cats, so any suggestions are appreciated.
     
  5. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the information.

    This is very concerning. I don't know how long it is since 9PM last night for you since we are all in different time zones. If it has been more than 12 hours since his last shot then he could have gone very low. Usually the effects of Lantus wear off after 12 hours, but every cat is different.

    Did your vet nor suggest putting him on a glucose drip??? With numbers that low and having seizures that is the usual treatment to prevent brain damage and electrolyte imbalances.

    You REALLY need to be monitoring him closely. Give straight honey..you can rub it on the gums give some high carb wet food with gravy and retest 20 minutes later. If the numbers are not coming up repeat and test again. If you are unable to bring the numbers up to at least 3 you may need to take him to the ER. Hypos can be deadly.
     
  6. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I would not change his regular diet at this time. It is possible that the glucose numbers have been in hypo range for awhile and the high carb dry food you are feeding him kept him safe.

    How often were you testing at home? You should have been testing before each shot and around the +4 hour time after each shot. Lantus on average with kitties generally will start acting after about 2 hour from shot and will have its strongest effect around 5-7 hours after a shot.
     
  7. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Tested a half hour ago, he is climbing. BG was 2.7!
     
  8. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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  9. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok...now is that on the pet meter or on the human meter. If it is on a pet meter you need to get the numbers up higher than 3.8 (68 US) If it is on a human meter then you need the numbers higher than 2.8 (50US)
     
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  10. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Please test again to ensure that his numbers are still climbing
     
  11. Marilyn and Polly

    Marilyn and Polly Well-Known Member

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    Keep testing. The honey will bring the kitty up, but the honey wears off and the numbers start to come down again.
     
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  12. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @BJM and @pollydoodle . Will either of you be around for a bit. I am leaving in just a few minutes and want to be sure someone is watching until Barry is in safe numbers.
     
  13. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Would you please give your cat a whopping amount (a teaspoon) of corn syrup and monitor every 20 - 30 min. These numbers are way too low and your cat is experiencing a symptomatic hypoglycemic episode. Because Lantus is a depot type of insulin, low numbers can last literally for hours. We've seen episodes such as this run for over 16 hours. Frankly, I do not understand your vet. This is a situation where typically a cat is placed on a dextrose drip and monitored continuously since symptomatic hypoglycemia can be life threatening. I don't mean to frighten you but this is serious and a situation where we typically tell members to get their cat to the ER.

    I'm linking instructions on how to handle low numbers.
     
  14. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Sienne and Gabby (GA) Are you able to watch this thread I am on my way out but don't want to leave without some eyes on it
     
  15. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    K. Yeah not sure why the vet sent us home without the IV drip. I will keep you all posted.
     
  16. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Why do they experience hypoglycaemic events?
     
  17. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Glucose IV drips are done at an animal hospital since constant monitoring is needed Let's get Barry safe and afterwards you might want to look for a new vet.


    This is from the insulin dose being too high or not needed at all. Hypos can be very serious and even deadly, so they are not to be dealt with lightly
     
  18. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'm around and I'll try to round up a few other experienced people as well.
     
  19. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    A hypoglycemic event can also occur due to a food change to a lower carb food or the cat's pancreas beginning to heal. At this point, without knowing more about your kitty, it's anyone's guess as to the reason for the low numbers. Please monitor your cat carefully and continuously using the same meter you started with. A human meter is fine. The animal meter is an issue that can be discussed at a later time.
     
  20. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Once a kitty starts having seizure from a hypo the brain is being starved of the glucose it needs to function properly.

    I have to go but there are some very experienced people who will continue to help you out until Barry is safe.


    @Sienne and Gabby (GA) Thanks so much. I was very worried. I will take down the 911 from my other post
     
  21. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Diet hasn't changed. Giving more corn syrup now. Will test his BG shortly after.
     
  22. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sienne He had a human meter at home but the vet lent him another meter so I don't know if that one is a pet meter or which one he is using for these tests
     
  23. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Originally used the human one, now have the pet one. Just gave him another teaspoon of syrup. Will test in a half hour. He seems a ton better.

    Thanks folks!
     
  24. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Jul 9, 2012
    when this episode has passed...
    please continue posting and let us help you make Barry better.
    The food he is on is higher carb than he needs.... we have lists...
    like Sienne said, your vet isn't very good with FD.

    We can share lots of tips....help you get a spreadsheet going.... help Barry feel much better.
    And after a hypo incident, be warned that he could become oversensitive to his insulin shot....
    that's why we need to help you along....
     
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  25. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Okay. It's 12:40. We tested his BG with both te human and the cat tester. Cat said 8.9, Human was 7.2. After we were done testing him, while he is still acting a bit off....he started playing!!! Like a little kitten. Which we haven't seen ever. We figured he isn't much more than a year old. Oh and he just went pee.
     
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  26. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    I'll check those food lists compared to what you guys have and see what is at our local pet store.

    It's wierd, we have never seen him this kitten-ish. And he is our youngest cat.
     
  27. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    I assume now with his BG where it is we can stop with the syrup? We normally don't feed him until 8 at night. What should we do?
     
  28. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    I would test again in 30 minutes as the syrup can wear off fast.
    Besides him being super sensitive to insulin after a systematic hypo, changing his food to a lower carb food can also bring his numbers down. I'm glad you are home testing, but I would keep posting for advice here, and not doing whatever your vet says to do.
     
  29. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    The syrup will bring his numbers up but wear off quickly. If Barry has not eaten since this morning, I would give him a little food now. That should help keep his BG up longer but don't give him too much as you may need to continue giving him small amounts for awhile longer to keep his BG up. You need to test every 30 minutes until you get at least 3 readings of safe or rising numbers. He could drop again quickly when the syrup wears off.
     
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  30. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Normally we wouldn't feed him until the evening, should we maybe give him a small meal now to help keep his BG up? I imagine that would last better than the corn syrup.
    Our vet said it's possible he's gone into remission so he suggested that we stop the Lantus for now and see if he can be maintained with diet. Barry's last shot of Lantus was 16 hours ago, from what I've read it can take a while to wear off, could that be why his BG numbers have improved so quickly this afternoon?
    Thank you to everyone for helping out, we have been trying to keep Barry healthy and happy, it seems we haven't been great diabetic cat "parents", but we are sure to improve with all this information and support.
     
  31. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    With diabetes, it's a better idea to give several smaller meals during the early part of the cycle than to give two large meals. It's easier on the tummy and on the pancreas. Plus it helps make sure he will eat if you need him to when his numbers go low.

    If you are feeding mostly dry for the convenience, I recommend you get a timed feeder, which will allow you to fill it once a day and let each compartment open at the time you specify. Many of us use the Petsafe 5 meal feeder, which has a place for an ice pack under the food tray. You can put moist food in it and it will stay fresh for hours.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
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  32. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a new reading yet?
     
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  33. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    I'll be around for the next couple of hours and will check in too.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  34. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Ok as of 2:22 he is 7.6 on the cat scale. On the human one 5.7. I am more inclined to believe the cat one. This is after a tiny bit of food too. He is acting almost normally. Still having a few episodes of kitten too.
     
  35. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    If I'm reading the posts right, he has come down some more. I would give him 1/4 of a regular meal.
     
  36. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I think it's premature to decide if your cat is in remission. Let's see what the numbers tell you.

    Between the last two tests, Barry's numbers are dropping again. Please give him some food with a few drops of corn syrup to prevent the numbers from dropping. Please review the link I provided regarding how to manage low numbers. Because this can go on for literally hours and hours, you don't want the numbers to get away from you.

    The animal meter numbers typically run a little higher than values on the human meter. This is due to how the meters are calibrated and doesn't effect their reliability.

     
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  37. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    K. My wife is going to read over those links. We just fed him a small amount of wet food with maybe 1/3rd of a teaspoon of corn syrup. We will check his numbers again soon.

    Unfortunately we are running out of cat test strips. So we will have to use the human tester and adjust. It's been about 1.2 or so units different.
     
  38. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Those test strips for the cat meter are very expensive. It would be easier (and cheaper) to just stick to the human meter.

    The difference between the two meters increases exponentially as the readings get higher, as you may have noticed with your comparison earlier. As Sienne said, it doesn't make one better than the other. Vets prefer the vet meter, but they aren't paying for those strips! You can manage just as well with the human meter. Most of the people here use the human ones.
     
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  39. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Honestly the human test strips are just fine and one good reason to use them is what just happened. You can always get more easily.
     
  40. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    That difference is not going to be the same for all readings. If you only have strips for the human meter used that and don't try to assume what the pet meter might have read because there is no way to convert one meter type to the other.
     
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  41. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    The BIG disadvantage of the pet meter is that the strips are very expensive and not widely available. You can get strips for a human meter almost anywhere.

    The pet meters are also calibrated to run a little higher than a human meter. On a human meter a 50 (2.7) is equivalent to a 68 (3.8) on a pet meter. While many people here use a pet meter, the majority of people will use a human meter due to the cost of the strips.
     
  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Have you taken another reading yet? Please post so we know how Barry is doing.
     
  43. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    I will very shortly. You folks are awesome, btw.
     
  44. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    We're also a bit of a nag. ;) But we're nice nags. :p
     
  45. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    So we are having trouble finding a vein in his ears now. Before it wasn't hard. Any suggestions?
     
  46. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Are his ears cold? If so try warming them up with some hot water in a little pill bottle or a hot wash cloth in a plastic bag held to his ear for a few moments should reap better results.
     
  47. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Also, massage the ear gently. That will help get the blood flowing, in addition to warming it.
     
  48. tempstace

    tempstace Member

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    Hi everyone, this is Barry's "mom", I've been following the conversation and wanted to say thanks for everyone's help!
    We didn't manage to get enough blood for a sample on this try and Barry was getting upset (us, too) so we thought it best to wait a bit and try again. Hopefully his ears will be warmer then but if not we'll try the recommended tricks. He was much more complacent when his sugar was low but he's feeling feisty this afternoon!
     
  49. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    I am so happy that all our wonderful members were able to step in and help you with Barry.

    You don't actually aim for the vein you are aiming for the capillaries beside the vein:

    [​IMG]



    The more you test the more capillaries will develop and the easier the blood drop will show up.


    You did a great job today with the help of all the people from FDMB, :bighug:
     
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  50. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    We were all so concerned for Barry..and for you two as well. This is an amazing forum where people REALLY care about kitties they have just "met" and will most probably never meet in person. The combined knowledge and experience of the people here is so far past most vets, since we live breathe and eat treating our diabetic kitties.

    We love them all and want the best for each and every one :bighug:
     
  51. tempstace

    tempstace Member

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    Today has been a pretty tough day and I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed. Barry is one of 5 cats and he's been with us for less than a year. He showed up at our back door (we put out food for the neighbourhood feral and stray cats) and we eventually decided to take him in when we realized he had already adopted us by living on our deck pretty much full time. When we found out he was diabetic we didn't realize right away what we were signing on for. We thought he was doing well, so today was a shock. He seems to be feeling better already though so now we just need to get better at managing his diabetes. I can already tell that this website will be a wealth of helpful information! Thanks again!!
     
  52. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to all of you! This was a baptism by fire, for sure.

    Your story sound similar to my experience with Cinco, and he even looks like him! You will find that dealing with his FD will bring you a special bond with Barry. Bless you for taking him in and stepping up to help him get better. Too many people just give up when they get this diagnosis. It's not easy, but it's very rewarding, and you'll make lots of new friends. We have all been through similar experiences and we all care about each and every cat that comes here. Ask lots of questions, and read as much of the info on the Lantus & Levemir page as you can. We're all here to help!

    When you get a chance, can one of you get the spreadsheet set up, please? It is an amazing tool for helping us (and you) see what's going on with your kitty's numbers. Here are the instructions for creating it. If you have any problems or questions, just ask. We have a couple of people that are awesome with them and can get you on track quickly. Here is another post that might be helpful in learning to post here.

    Your experience with your vet is troubling, and after things calm down, you might want to consider reporting this experience to the board that regulates vets where you live (may I ask where that is, by the way?). He endangered Barry's life by sending you away without proper treatment. At the very least, I'd find a new vet.

    We're so glad you found us!
     
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  53. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You are so welcome. We love all the kitties and do our best to help whenever we can.:D

    Do keep a close eye on Barry. I sometimes find my girl gets more fidgety about testing when she is low than when she is high. His last reading was good so if he is acting fine, he is probably out of danger and just surfing along in some nice numbers now.

    As the others have said, setting up a spreadsheet would be a great next step. And definitely look for a new vet! Sounds to me like yours is not well versed on using Lantus at all. If you want to log a complaint, you can do so HERE. I notice you are in Ontario. Where in Ontario are you? I'm in the west end of Toronto.

    Just an FYI for future reference. The dry Boreal food although claiming to be low glycemic, is about 29% carbs, which is way too high for a diabetic cat....even one in remission if that turns out to be the case with Barry. The canned food while low carb is NOT a complete diet as it contains no taurine. It's fine for the occasional meal but not for a steady diet. Canned food is definitely preferable but if you HAVE to feed dry for some reason, let me know and I'll provide you with the best options in Canada because unfortunately we cannot get most of the very low carb dry foods available in the U.S.

    If you continue having a hard time getting blood samples from Barry's ears, you could try using the large paw pad. Some folks find that easier although the majority use the ear.:)
     
  54. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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  55. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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    might want to start looking for a new vet asap:rolleyes:
     
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  56. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Ok. Got another sample at 6:08 pm, only with the cat tester because we can't get a big enough blood sample for the human one. It read 2.4. So I gave him a teaspoon of corn syrup. We will try again in about half an hour. Should I give him any food as well?
     
  57. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    No, our vet is solid. Saved two of our cats lives. Like regular doctors, they have their strength and weaknesses.
     
  58. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    We have Boreal in a can we can give him. Is that better than te diabetic food?
     
  59. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yes give Barry a teaspoon of canned food as well as the corn syrup and test again 20 minutes after.
     
  60. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Either food is fine but canned is better if the diabetic food is dry food.
     
  61. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    We have both canned and dry versions of Boreal and the Diabetic.
     
  62. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure which is higher in carbs so use the canned diabetic food for now. I'll have to check the Boreal carb level. The dry food is higher in carbs but will take longer to get into his system and fill him up faster which you don't want to do because he evidently needs a little more steering. The problem is that Lantus is a depot insulin which means each shot leaves a "shed" of insulin that keeps working. This means those low numbers can go on for hours.
     
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  63. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    So basically for now even though it's been about 21 hours since his last shot, keep giving him small amounts of food to keep his blood sugar at the same level?
     
  64. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    Ok, got the spreadsheet up and running. I have no idea what I am looking at lol
     
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  65. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    K. Checked his blood with the cat tester. Came back at 4.7. So it's goin back up again.

    Is it going to level out at all?
     
  66. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the Boreal canned is 1% and the dietetic is about the same if not lower so you may need to use some of the dry food to get him up and stay up. He's safe now but we really need to get him up and keep him up. We need to see 3 consecutive BG readings that are steady or rising before we know he is out of the woods. We don't know that at this point how long the insulin shed will keep him at these low numbers so we want to err on the side of caution and pump him up a bit higher.

    As for the spreadsheet, it looks complicated but it's not.
    Under the AMPS column you put in the reading you take before a shot. Under the "U" column, you mark in the number of units of insulin given. Each of the columns after that labeled +1, +2 etc. indicate readings that many hours after a shot of insulin.
    I am not sure if you have been taking pre-shot readings up till now but those are very important as they tell you whether it is safe to give insulin to the cat. We also try to get at least one mid cycle test to figure out how low the dose of insulin is taking the cat. Lantus dosing is based on how low the dose takes him, not on pre-shot numbers.

    How many cat strips do you have left at this point? 4.7 is a safe great number but that could be the corn syrup and it will wear off pretty quickly so more testing is going to be needed. Is your meter the AlphaTrak2 meter? If yes, then go to the drugstore and get some Freestyle Lite strips which will work in the meter. The readings won't be 100% accurate but good enough to enable you to keep Barry safe.
     
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  67. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

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    May 21, 2016
    Ok! That makes sense. One last quick question. How often should we feed him? Wife and I are prepared to stay up tonight in shifts b
     
  68. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    He will level out but he's taking his time about it! Test him again in about 20 minutes.
     
  69. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    We haven't taken any pres shot readings. And now that we are off the Lantus we are just doing test reads.
     
  70. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    The goal here is to get and keep him in safe numbers but not fill him up with food too early in case you need to "steer" him again. Test in 20 minutes and see where he's at. I'll check back in and we won't leave you alone until Barry is staying in safe numbers.

    You are dedicated pet parents and I salute you! :D
     
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  71. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    OMG he is running around the house like a devil possessed!!! He is in full kitten mode.
     
  72. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Cool on the kitten mode! He's feeling better than he has in days I'm sure! :cat::D

    I know the vet told you Barry might be in remission but one hypoglycemic episode does not necessarily mean remission. I think it's safe to say Barry has been getting too much insulin and needs a dose reduction. And I would definitely skip his shot tonight as the vet said, but until he can stay in normal ranges for a period of 14 days without insulin, remission is still a big question mark.
     
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  73. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Also how long of a time period so we need to have for a steady/rising test score? Or do we just need 3 in a row?
     
  74. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    If you get 3 consecutive readings where his numbers are steady or rising, then I would test one more time an hour later to make sure he was staying up. Then I think you can relax. I have yet to see a cat going hypo that long after a shot although my cat stayed in low numbers for 22 hours on another depot insulin but she was never low enough to have a symptomatic hypo. I think Barry will start coming up soon but again it depends on how big a shed he has stored up. ECID (every cat is different).
     
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  75. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Ok thanks! Wife is off to get the other test strips too.
     
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  76. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Just a curiosity, what human meter were you trying to use? Wish I had thought of this earlier :oops: but if you are using the lancets that came with that human meter, that could be part of the problem. If you can catch your wife at the store, tell her to get some lancets that are 28 gauge as most human meters come with 31 gauge which make it harder to get a big enough bead of blood to test.
     
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  77. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    The human one is a One Touch Ultra Mini...and yeah, we use regular needle lancets to get the blood. We tried using the one that came with it, and it was futile lol.

    Also do you know if the Freestyle Lite Strips require the same tiny amount as the Cat strips do, or do they need a lot more like the human strips?
     
  78. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Any idea why he may be meowing a lot? He seems a bit restless at times.
     
  79. tempstace

    tempstace Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    We have been using 22 gauge needle heads to get samples and sometimes we get a lot and sometimes we get a little. The One Touch Ultra seems to require quite a large blood sample and the AlphaTrak has been a great switch because it needs such a tiny amount. I'm about to go in to get the Freestyle Lite strips but I'm hoping they won't need the same amount of blood as the One Touch or it'll be a sort of wasted purchase as we could use the One Touch to tide us over until we get more actual AlphaTrak strips.
     
  80. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    I personally use the AT2 meter (pet meter) and the FS Lite meter( human meter). I have found from my own experience that both these meter us a very small blood drop. Many people here use the Relion meter and are very pleased with it, but in Canada where I am it is not available.
     
  81. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    yes the Freestyle Lite strips are identical but have not been batch tested for use in the AT meter so it's the same tiny drop of blood needed to use them!

    As to why he is meowing a lot I have no idea. Is he perhaps telling you he is hungry and wants some food? If so I'd give him a bit more food. Have you tested again yet or are you waiting for your wife and strips to arrive?
     
  82. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Yeah waiting for the strips to arrive. I gave him a mix of food. He should be ok.
     
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  83. tempstace

    tempstace Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    I'm currently at the pharmacy after taking my mom home, hopefully we will have BG results to post within an hour, assuming Barry cooperates - his high energy is wonderful to see but makes him much more wiggly!
    Added bonus - apparently the tester is free if you buy a 100 pack of strips!
     
  84. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Great job getting the spreadsheet up. Now, when things calm down a little, you need to enter all the readings you have, back to your first test, if you can. If you haven't been recording them somewhere, your meter should have a memory so you can go back and see them.
     
  85. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Tried a bunch of times to get a blood sample. No luck. We will try again.
     
  86. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Good job today. (Sorry, I had to leave earlier to do rescue transport.)

    When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback.

    Editing your Signature

    In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

    Click on your ID.

    On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by | or -.
    This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    Add any other text, such as your name | cat's name | date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter general location (city and state/province) any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.

    Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.
     
  87. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Are you warming the ear first?
     
  88. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    You can try poking two holes close together to get a big enough bead. You can also put very thin skim of Vaseline or polysporin on the sweet spot before poking as that helps get the blood to bead up better and be more visible.
     
  89. tempstace

    tempstace Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    We tried massaging the ear and then I used a sock full of rice warmed in the microwave on the next try. All 3 of us were getting pretty frustrated and it was about time for him to eat. A big part of the problem is that I have a herniated disc in my back so I'm usually in pain when we're trying to get a sample. Add a very fidgety cat in to the mix and it's somewhat beyond what I'm capable of at times.

    I also have to admit that I don't quite understand the "sweet spot". I looked at the picture posted above but I'm unclear - do we poke from the furry outside of the ear or the inside of the ear? And he seems to have rather thin veins even when they're warm, I can see that outside rim vein if there's light shining behind his ear but can't see it well enough to poke it when I fold his ear back, if that makes sense.
     
  90. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014

    As one of the first people to respond to your post this morning I feel I need to express my opinion. Barry was having seizures when you took him to the vet. The vet did NOTHING except tell you to stop giving insulin. This advice was given from here just based on the fact that Barry was seizing. Your vet sent you home and Barry seized again on the way home. If the hypo had been any worse Barry could have passed away or been disabled permanently. My own personal opinion was the fact that your vet did nothing for a kitty in a critical , possibly deadly condition leaves much room for doubt as to their understanding of feline diabetes and its complications.

    There have been a few kitties on this forum that have passed away from a serious hypo..and that was with proper treatment at animal hospital ER. when I first came across you posting this morning, my heart was in the pit of my stomach since I am aware of how serious this could have been. Sending Barry home without proper treatment and follow up ...IMHO...would be enough for me to seek out another vet no matter how good the vet had been in the past.

    Sorry if I am being very blunt, but this episode and the lack of proper treatment today really upset me> The wonderful people here did far more to ensure that Barry was safe than the vet did.

    OK Rant over. But the worth of a good vet is how well they treat an emergency.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  91. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Ok perhaps now would be a good time to put a little of that kibble out for Barry (maybe 1/16th of a cup or so) just to ensure we get his BG up high enough till a reading can be taken. Going forward it would be a good idea to find a special testing place where you can be comfortable testing. I have two spots in my place. One is her table in the rec room and the other is a counter under the window in my dining room. Both are at a level where I can either stand up or sit down to test without having to bend myself into a pretzel to get a test. If you start getting Barry used to one spot and offer a treat after testing whether successful or not, he's likely to become accustomed to the routine and co-operate more and you won't be putting yourself in jeopardy looking after him. Doesn't matter where it is but it needs to be some place that is comfortable for you as well as Barry.
     
  92. Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey

    Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2011
    Many people say their kitties run to the testing spot as soon as they get the treats out. Alway give a treat, even if you don't get blood. You want the kitty to associate the treats with your messing with his ear.

    Here is a link with a lot of good info and tips on testing.
     
  93. tempstace

    tempstace Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    We will start "training" him to enjoy testing starting tomorrow, thanks for all the helpful hints. It'll take some thought to pick the ideal spot, Barry doesn't really have a favourite spot of his own yet but I'm sure we can find somewhere that will work for all of us.

    He has had a mix of wet, kibble and water for his last 2 feedings and our overnight plan is to take turns getting up to feed him every 1.5 hours. That should keep his BG high and steady enough that we don't have to both get up so we can test.
     
  94. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Sounds like a good workable plan although I think every 2 hours should be more than adequate. I hate to think of you having such a night but Barry is definitely taking his sweet time getting to more normal safe numbers and staying there so if you can't get another test to see what he's doing, this is your safest course of action.

    I suggest you try to test him again tomorrow morning after food has been withheld for at least 2 hours so you can get a reading that has no food influence. Then test again about an hour to an hour and a half after his meal to see how much his BG spikes from food. This will give you a better idea of whether he is trying to head into remission or you are going to have to re-evaluate his dose and carefully restart his shots. You can post in the Lantus forum to get the assistance of those most familiar with that insulin. If you have any further need for assistance or questions tonight, posting here on Health is the best place at non-peak hours as we have members from around the globe so there is usually someone around.

    I'll be watching to see how Barry's doing. :)
     
  95. TLantMagnus

    TLantMagnus Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Ok! Wish us luck!
     
  96. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Relieved to see how things went.

    Like others here, I am concerned about your vet's understanding of feline diabetes. I mean no offence to the vet but the hypo was not handled properly and safely; Barry needed emergency hospital treatment. You both did great getting him through what must have been a very stressful and frightening time for all of you.

    After a symptomatic hypo cats may become MUCH more sensitive to insulin so much caution will be needed going forward should Barry still need insulin treatment. I strongly recommend that you ask for input from experienced members at FDMB before giving Barry any more insulin and that you give serious consideration to their suggestions when making any future dosing decisions.


    Mogs
    .
     
  97. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    To answer your question about which side of the ear to poke (from the inside or from the furry side) you can go either way, whatever is easier for you. I find it easier to go from the inside as I know (from experience) exactly how much of the lancing device I should be seeing sticking out from behind his ear to poke the right spot. My mum prefers to go from the furry side with her kitty.

    Good job keeping Barry safe today
     
  98. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Good morning! Just checking in to see how things went last night.When you are up and have had your :coffee::coffee::coffee: please let us know! Really curious to see what Barry's numbers look like today! :)
     
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  99. tempstace

    tempstace Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    I'm up but not very awake ;) Barry's "dad" stayed up late to do a couple feedings so the plan is to let him sleep in a while longer. Barry has just eaten so we will test him (fingers crossed for success) before his next small meal in 2 hours, per the advice here. He seems alert and happy this morning, hungry but not ravenous - although he is currently checking every other cat's bowl to make sure there wasn't anything left behind, not even a bit of kibble dust :rolleyes:
    We will keep you all posted as we go today and I plan to do some reading and watching of videos re: testing. Thanks again!
     
  100. tempstace

    tempstace Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2016
    Also, our plan, as previously suggested, is to test after food has been withheld for at least 2 hours, then again 1 to 1.5 hours after he eats. Other than that though I'm not sure what our plan for today should be - do we keep feeding him small meals every couple hours? Do we start giving him larger, less frequent meals? How many times and at what time frequency should we test his BG today? If his numbers are steady can we maybe sleep through the night without feeding him? So many questions for early in the morning on not a lot of sleep!
     

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