? Kidney failure

Cat seems to not be eating as much,but still eats,question i have if a cat has pancreatis does this do anything with rising numbers for bg? Or does it not affect numbers?

 

It will affect the numbers alright. First there is inflammation in the body, that tends to raise BG. Second it is painful which also increases BG. Do you have any pain relief available to use? Jones' numbers rose in the end and never really dropped due to the chronic pancreatitis.

 

There could be a number of reasons Bristol is not eating as much as previously, but I'm glad you are considering that it could be pancreatitis because of rising BG numbers. Has Bristol had pancreatitis before and if so, when, what was the treatment?

Is Bristol acting like she is in pain? Has she had a dental exam, how is her dental health? Your signature does not say how old she is, but you do have down that she has arthritis. Has it been very hot where you live?

You also don't have a spreadsheet that shows testing data, so we can't see how high, or to what levels the BG is rising. It would be very helpful to have some additional information to be able to offer any input.

Here is a link to a Pancreatitis Primer that might help you going forward
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/a-primer-on-pancreatitis.83108/

Pancreatitis is a serious, painful condition and I hope you will take steps to determine what Bristol might be experiencing, and get treatment if warranted.

 

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well i tested her today and numbers are normal! she just isnt eating as much, im thinking she hurts from arthritis, i did give her some pain meds,also have a heating pad for her. pretty sure its not diabetus related. she is on cosequin and ordered is dasequin for stronger meds. I called vet to see if they would give her a b12 shot to help her eat,but they want to do a full exam $$ i dont have. she is 12yo. she doesnt want to move anymore than she has to for sure. she doesnt feel bloated or hard in stomach area either. she had her annual exam a couple months ago,teeth were fine,ill try to pry open and look again tho

 

hard to open her mouth lol, but i give her soft food,but she will eat hard treats all day long,think teeth are fine.

 

I'm glad to hear she's eating better and having "normal" BG. What is normal BG for Bristol?

 

Her preshot was 279,which around prime time for lantus brings it around low 100's

 

If you wanted to work on getting Bristol's BG down closer to non-diabetic BG levels, you could set up a spreadsheet, plug in insulin and testing data, read the stickies at the top of the Lantus forum and post there for input and suggestions, you would be most welcome. I haven't gone back through all of your previous threads, but I can see that she is very important to you and you want the best for her.

If you want to set up the spreadsheet, here are instructions and how to understand the spreadsheet grid:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

If you have any problems with the spreadsheet we have members who can help, or set it up for you. I was trying to do it on a tablet that didn't interface with Google , so it was set up for me, and until I got the laptop out of mothballs, I was able to use my cell phone to record and track BG.

 

Ill try and work on spreadsheet next week? Im more worried about my cat right now. Her level will be lose to 100ish later. God knows ive tested her enough to somewhat know this. Again,i know my cat more than my vet or anyone else,im almost certain this is a non diabetic issue and more of arthritis. Spening 40.00 more on some more meds so hoping this works,im not rich and cant keep throwing money at this. My vet wants 70.00 just to check her,doesnt include xrays or any other testing,and of course they dont take care credit or do payment plans.

 

Of course you are concerned about her. We just recently had concerns about arthritis with Idjit, who was limping quite badly, so I can empathize. It's so hard when they can't tell us where it hurts, or how much. So, we are also working on the pain/possible chronic joint issues too. And I can identify with the vet costs also, yikes! We had a $50 med prescribed, but I think it really helped, along with the glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM supplement. Vet is holding off on X-rays, but I was getting ready to bite that bullet, because I just couldn't stand to watch him limp along.

 

She isnt limping but she is walking like a young kitty either, i just hope this new stuff works,i sprinkle on her food but she barley eats

 

Could you try giving her some baby food meat soup? I use Beechnut brand chicken or turkey, because it's unseasoned and when Idjit is sick that always gets his interest. It's about a buck a jar, but if you can get her interested, it might help. What is her regular food that she is refusing?

 

Her normal friskies pates,she will eat treats tho. Where can i get this baby food

 

I shop at different stores, and the last jars I bought were at WinCo. I don't know what you have locally, but it might be worth a call to larger stores in the area to see if they stock it. It's not for long term, because it doesn't have the nutritional supplements cats need, but it might get some food into her right now.

I am wondering if she is sniffing at the Friskies and then walking away, if she's licking her lips or acting nauseated. Has she vomited?

It's just baby food meat, I make "soup" by adding warm water.

 

She still eats it but only about 1/3 , not vomiting at all

 

Make sure whatever baby food you find does not have any onion or garlic powder in it. Toxic for cats.

 

At least she's eating some, that's good. I know Fancy Feast is more expensive, but maybe even try a can or two of the Classics (pate) to see if that generates more interest? Also, I ordered this supplement from Amazon and it's a liquid, beef flavored. I mix it in Idjit's food and he eats it all right up.
https://www.amazon.com/NODENS®-Glucosamine-Chondroitin-Flexibility-Inflammation/dp/B01F1OFP2W

The vet approved and he is not limping at all now, or yesterday. But he also had a couple of doses of Metacam. So maybe it's the combination. He's been on the supplement for almost 2 weeks now.

 

I have ff pates,same thing

 

Ill try this

 

The Gerber has gravy, which probably means carbs..and might raise the BG, the Beechnut is best. Check the ingredients on the Gerber.

 

Ok. Im not gonna try till supper time,i got a full dose of morphine in her for once this am and know she is feeling blah right now from that,ill keep you posted. I have to go away all day tomorrow and hope she eats in am,otherwise ill worry all day. If worse comes to worse ill feed her dry kibble,but that will def raise her numbers,but she has to eat.

 

In the meantime, i have this gut feeling we might be getting close to the end,i sure hope im wrong. I did check locally in cremation,they were very helpful,wanted to know ahead of time instead of last minute. Wonder how much usually it is to put them to sleep?

 

She gets morphine? For the arthritis? and is this "as needed" or a scheduled dose? That might affect her appetite. Does she have other conditions, is she elderly?

 

As needed,last dose i gave her was monday,should have been out of her system by now that she could eat,im not getting anymore,only have two treatments left.its called bupeenoephine

 

oh, Bupe for pain. I have read about that and Idjit had it once a long time ago for an injury. Poor little Bristol. I hope she eats the meat soup, and yes, she needs what she needs. Please keep us posted, I will worry about her too.

 

Thank you,just the idea of putting her down tears me up big time

 

Sleeping on her heating pad,hope it helps

 

I realize that you are going to be gone tomorrow, and you have your plate full with her eating issues right now. But I do encourage you to keep posting and get some of the experienced members' eyes on the whole picture, maybe some help with insulin dose or anything at all. That little darling in the bag is precious and the thought of putting her down makes me tear up.

 

Me too!!!!

 

She just got up for some water,she has been thirsty bc last few days i gave her hemp oil. I heat up her food in microwave and she did eat a little,at least she is trying. When u give her baby food do you mix it with cat food or just give her baby food,do you force feed her?

 

I have never assisted fed (force feeding), I just offer a small amount mixed water whenever, you could try some now. Maybe the canned food has changed in recipe, or she can taste the cosequin or or or. I would just try the baby food meat soup and leave out everything else.
If it comes to assisted feeding, do you have the syringes and know how to do that? There is a link here on the board that has info.

@MrWorfMen's Mom could you read from the top and add anything, please?

 

Food hasnt changed,i called to confirm. I also tried to give her without cosequin and disnt make any differnce. I need a nap,im mentally drained now. Her feeding time is 700 pm,so ill try some baby food then

 

I hear that you are worn out. Most of our sugar cats get small more frequent meals, not just 2 a day. That helps balance out the blood sugar and makes kitty feel better.

 

She is eating about the same amount,not very much,but eating. Gave her the med that came in today dasequin,but im sure that wont start working right away

 

She ate her dry kibble right up,of course what she isnt suppose to eat she gobbles right up,wouldnt even touch baby food

 

If she is expierencing kidney failure would this also caise bg numbers to spike or would they still be the same

 

I can't answer that question, you might want to check this website: https://www.felinecrf.org/diabetes.htm
Tanya also has a support group that you can join.
Here is info from the FAQs forum Index on chronic renal failure/kidney disease.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...betic-cat-have-crf-kidney-disease-if-so.1123/

 

Right now I think you need to feed Bristol whatever she will eat. You can always adjust her insulin to deal with any increased carb intake if need be. That said, it sounds like her BG is not bad at all and getting that under reasonable control will reduce appetite. It would be really helpful to be able to see what her BG has been doing as that might provide some clues as to the reduced appetite. Is she still drinking a lot, peeing a lot?

Have you checked Bristol for ketones? Even if BG is reasonably well controlled, ketones can occur from an underlying inflammation or infection. You can get Ketostix at the local pharmacy and test her urine. Any reading of ketones over a trace is cause for a vet visit as ketones can lead to a more serious complication, DKA.

You could try poaching some chicken and offering that or putting some baby food on a spoon as sometimes that will encourage kitty to eat. I wouldn't resort to syringe feeding unless absolutely necessary but do be sure she is getting enough calories in as lack of food can also cause liver issues.

I have a geriatric kitty with kidney issues and his BG is just fine but whether kidney issues would elevate BG in a diabetic I am not sure.

 

i checked her last night for ketones,all good,no trace what so ever. ill try and check next time she pees. im going to bed soon, i have not rested well the last few nights because of this and have a long day tomorrow unless i wake up and she is worse then i will cancel my plans and make a e vet appt, if she is the same and no better we are going to vet monday am, i just gave her some diffrent flavors of food and she gobbled down some, alittle more than early today, she seems hit or miss,who knows maybe she is having a bad reaction to buprerorphine?? not sure it would last a few days after i gave her some tho. i really apprciate all your help and need some prayers for her over the weekend!!!

 

Great no ketones.!
Bupe can certainly have an effect on cats but not sure for days. When I gave it to Sheba she was completely out of it for 8 hours and then groggy, not eating much.

Do you think Bristol could be nauseated? Signs might be sniffing the food and walking away or smacking lips.
If you asked your vet for some cerenia tablets (for nausea), do you think he would give you some without a consultation?
Would she eat a low carb dry food?
I'm not from the US so I'm not sure of the names of them but someone will chime in I'm sure.
I see you said Bristol is 12 years old.
Why do you think she may have kidney failure? Has she had issues before?

 

no issues before except 1 dka episode few years ago. i gave her some bup on tuesday,acted weird,so i stopped and just gave her some today again. also so gave her a few last week to, i have a total of 7 and down to two now.so she had wed and thur to get off bup, i also stopped cosequin for a few days as well thinking maybe that was it? been on cosequin couple months now.

 

I found cosequin very good for arthritis.

Looks like you have been looking after Bristol for several years with FD, that's really good. Cats who are nauseated don't like to eat.
I agree with others, any food at this point is OK as long as she eats. Maybe try something she hasn't had before and can't associate it with nausea, if in fact that is what she is experiencing.

 

Wish she could just tell me,would be so much easier lol. No more bup for her. I hope thats all it is,my vet is closed till monday,so hopefully no worse by then. Of she gets worse off to e vet,hope not tho,hateful expensive

 

Yes, its hard when they can't tell us isn't it?
Please keep us posted how she is. We all care about our kitties.

 

She just loves licking ice cubes now . Will keep up to date

 

She ate a little bit more this am than she did yesterday,baby steps i guess. Told her she was such a good girl for eating!

 

How is she today?

 

Ate a little more this am,didnt eat at all when i was gone today. Just fed her amd still barly eating. Did a preshot and was 480

 

Well i went and got her some tasty treasures and now she is eating pretty good,i know its not pate but better than dry food

 

I’m glad you have found something she will eat

 

I can still tell she feels icky,prob some of from her high numbers. Hoping they go down a good bit tnight,gave her 2 units. I wonder if she is assiocated feeling crappy with her old food and thats why she not eating it, if i have to ill get more tasty treasures tomorrow till she gets better

 

She may be associating her usual food with nausea. I know I had to swap Sheba to other food when she had pancreatitis.

 

Were you able to go back to her original food? I hope i dont have to start over pickimg diffrent foods now lol. But hey,if i have to then i will

 

Yes I could always go back to her usual food. It was just while she was feeling unwell. She normally had a home prepared diet of raw and cooked meats and supplements but when she was sick with pancreatitis she would eat more if I gave her canned food. Once she got better I swapped back to the home made food.

 

Well,she isnt doing so good,not eating,pre shot was 546 this am. Gonna call vet in am and see what going on and go from there. It may be time (

 

It sounds like she needs some anti nausea medications. It is hard for cats to eat when they are nauseated. There are also other pain medications apart from bupe.

 

That would be nice if thats all it is,but im sure my vet will wanna do all these test and money is a factor for me

 

You shouldn’t need tests done to get an anti nausea injection and some cerenia tablets to take home. Same with pain meds.

 

Well ill certainly try for sure,i just called e vet and they said they cant without test,prob bc i dont have a relationship with them,maybe mine will,ill call in am

 

Im off to e vet now,pray 4 us

 

Bad news,kidneys are failing. We are giving her fluids,nausea meds and meds to give by liquid to help with appetite. Temp fix,may be ok for a few days or weeks or a month. Thank you all for your help

 

How bad are the kidney numbers? https://www.felinecrf.org/ is a great site with static web pages full of up to date info (this site is the opposite; kind of stale content, great forums). Try to depend more on your regular vet. If you tell him $ is an issue and that at some point you will have to consider euthanasia, he/she might be able and willing to do a bit of guessing and give meds. When it has gotten closer to the end, my vet has been more amenable to my suggestions of "would it hurt to try X?".

 

I had them fax my dr, ill call tomorrow amd see what they say??

 

I’m sorry Bristol has some kidney failure. If they are unwell at the time of testing, the results can often improve with fluids and treatment. Ongoing it depends what stage she is at.
I don’t understand US kidney numbers but I’ll tag @Marje and Gracie who may be able to help you.
Getting them onto a low phosphorus diet and giving extra fluids will help.
Look at Lisa Pierson’s chart for low phosphorus foods. Look for foods that are 250mg/ 100kcal.

 

The e vet dr said anything is possible but he said the numbers are real high,it would be unlikely to recover, she would need hospital care,flushing of the system and may continue to need this the rest of her life. Im going to see what my dr says and if she is pretty much agreeable, then when the time comes ill have to do what i have to. I just hope my dr doesnt say she wants to retest everything they did,bc $$ .

 

They will hopefully be agreeable for you to do subQ fluids at home but it may depend on why the heart is enlarged.
Getting her into low phosphorus food and extra fluids should make a difference. See what your vet advises.

 

How hard is it to do at home subq fluids? Hiw does this work for someone that also works fulltime? Yes the heart being big isnt good either,they said heartbeat is good

 

SubQ fluids is not hard and once you are set up only takes 5 or so minutes. But you have to get your vets permission to do it and be advised how much to give and how often. There is a link somewhere I can send to you once I’m home. That will show you how it’s done.

 

And im not sure what could happened with the enlarged heart?

 

Here is the link to subQ fluids
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-give-subcutaneous-fluids-video.144366/

You will need to talk to your vet about the enlarged heart. He will be able to tell you how enlarged it is and the possible causes and treatments.

 

Fortunately subq is generally required once every day or two, depending on what the vet recommends. My kidney cat gets 200 ml every other day. Unlike insulin, timing is not as critical. After a month of performing subq, you will be a pro. Pick a time that is best for you. I work and find establishing a morning routine where I get all the daily cat chores out of the way to be a good choice; there's nothing to interrupt me. The numbers you provide indicate there is kidney problems. I'm not sure how the enlarged heart fits in. My vet emails me the test results as a PDF and there's usually three pages of info. I guess that means the rest of the numbers are in normal range, but it doesn't tell you what blood tests were run.

 

My vet called and pretty much with her high numbers and enlarged heart,it prob wont turn out good,recommends to put to sleep, and now to make things worse she can barly walk,something seems up with back legs? I might try and give a few days but play it day by day (

 

It does sound like there's a lot of organ failures going on. I think keeping your kitty comfortable and pain free and spending time with her instead of having her alone at the vet, while difficult, is a good strategy that you won't be second guessing later.

 

I took some time off work and spending time with her,i suspect she has a few days left.

 

I am so sorry to hear this

 

Those are pretty high numbers for the creatinine and the phosphorus. Quite often, the best way to get the creatinine down is a few days in the hospital on IV fluids but with her heart like it is, that’s likely not an option here and it would depend on what is exactly wrong with her heart. If they are just saying it’s enlarged from X-rays, it might or might not be. I’ve had radiologists tell me that my cat’s heart was enlarged on an X-ray but it turned out to be the way they had laid her on the X-ray table. On echocardiogram, all was normal.

It states she has hyperkalemia which is high potassium and that could be affecting her legs and her heart. The other huge issue is she is really anemic at 17%. Without other labs, it’s hard to say if it’s from the CKD or not but, usually, a cat with CKD will have anemia if it’s not slowed down and minimized from the get go (at 30%) with B vitamins.

Is it possible they could address these issues? Yes, it is. It’s largely dependent on her heart. If her heart could handle the fluids, she could potentially be turned around. I know this is a tough decision for you so i’ll send you tons of

 

According to a few drs this is pretty much it,small if any chance it could be turned around,she got a b shot and fluids and if anything she is worse. It could cost thousands and likely wouldnt recover. Id love to keep her for many more years. I know it sounds bad,but to bad we both couldnt go in our sleep and go to rainbow bridge together!!

 

I understand all too well and I’m so sorry. She is lucky to have your love.

 

I just made her appt for wed,cant stop crying since

 

When I had to make the decision about my 20 year old girl last October, I managed to keep it together until I called the vet; then I, too, broke down. But I knew it was the right think to do for her and it shows how much you truly love her when you let her go and relieve her of pain. She will live on in your memories.

 

She was the best cat,never got mad at me,and poor thing could barley walk in the end and she still used the litter box on the last day even tho she struggled. Couldnt have asked for a better kitty