Kimi and KC, I started the insulin debate on fb :(

I was asking for help on fb for a pen of vetsulin and gave some info of my KC on lantus for 2 months....I'm here to check things out and show you my logs from the past 2 months. I didn't mean to start that big debate about other insulins and the help I have been getting on another board, but it did raise some eye brows so I'm here to figure out which is best for KC.....where do I start? I'm not putter savie at all...can I post his past 2 months log some where on here? and see if I'm doing it right..... Kimi

 

Welcome to FDMB. I haven't been on FB much, so I've missed the debate.
Instructions for the FDMB spreadsheet are here.
If you're using a different format, start with the most recent data and work back for about 2 weeks. That'll give a picture of current insulin response. Add more as time permits.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.

 

I saw only a quick glance of this...but as I recall, she had been getting advised on another site to use a sliding scale with Lantus,...and was not seeing the results she wanted, since this of course is not how Lantus (or other depot insulins) should be dosed. I don't think until you have given Lantus a chance doing as intended, you can really determine if the type of insulin is the issue.
I would get your spreadsheet set up following BJ's advice above, input the numbers and data you have so far, and then perhaps post in the Latus/levemir section http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/ for feedback and dosing advice. See if you can get on track with your Lantus you are already on and help from the many experienced caregivers there. I was able to get my kitty in remission in a matter of weeks using Lantus and following the protocol and advice of folks in that forum. That was nearly 6 years ago and he remained diet controlled the rest of this life.
If you do switch insulin, vetsulin or similar (humulin, etc..) are antiquated and NOT recommended, there are better options out there.

You apparently have had offers for Lantus and also have had mentioned the much better pricing available in Canada which makes it as affordable (if not more) than any other option, including the bad, old school, harsh ones that are not good for your cat.

Get your SS set up and try getting some eyes in Lantus/Levemir forum to see if you can get your kitty in better ranges. Good luck!

 

150-250....1.00u
250 -400...1.25u
401+.........1.50u
Use that for shots given at +11 and past, reduce by .25 for shots earlier than +11, and add .25u for shots given after +13

Sept 1st
300am......+12...........435..........1.5.............2.0oz sheba.. this is pretty high fast, but he was agitated bc I wouldn't let him in the garden for his grass, only let him in the back hall, and then we played with his favorite toy...I pondered doing the 2am bg shot at 1.25U bc he was mood high. but figured he's been on 1.5U the past 3 shots, do new scale tomorrow
830am.........................................................woke up to fed him, didnt eat
1030am.....+7.5..........345...........................0.5ozPPPK
200pm........+11..........288................................treat
300pm........+12..........290........1.25U.............2.0oz
1030pm......+7.5...........280........................2.0oz FF
200am.........+11.........448..........1.5U............ 2.oozFF. didn't eat, I think he's figuring out that when I feed him he gets his shot he's been lashing out a lot lately he bit me today, he knows at one point one of those meals comes with a shot , I think thats why is not eating..

Sept 2nd
1000am......+8..........294..........................2.0ozPPPK
200pm.......+12........352.............1.25U......1.5ozPPPK
730pm.......+5.5........339...........................1.0ozSheba
200am........+12.............355...........1.25u. ....... 1.5ozFF

Sept 3rd
900am.......+7............252..............................1.0ozsheba
1130am.....+9.5.......295..................................treat
200pm.......+12.........340..........1.25U.............1.0ozFF
1000pm.....+8..........307...............................2.0ozFF didnt eat it

Sept 4th
230am......+12.5......336..........1.25U............ left over food from 10pm....didnt eat it
900am......+6.5.........288..............................1.5oz sheba i forgot to tell ya,I tested for ketones a cpl days ago, no ketones detected
1130am.....+9........300..................................grass/ .05ozFF
300pm.....+12.5........386.........1.5U ................1.0ozPPP DANG IT I got the syringe ready and put it at 1.5U thinking I'll test him and see where he's at, I brain farted and didn't push out the access and gave him 1.5 when it was supposed to be 1.25U
530pm....+2.5........321...................................1.0oz
1130pm....+8.5.......279..................................2.0oz

150-250....0.75u
250 -400...1.00u
401+.........1.25u

Sept 5th
230am.....+11.5......292...........1.0U..............2.0oz
900am......+6.5.......295................................1.0oz
1200pm.....+9.5......329...............................1.0oz
300pm.......+12.5.............374.............1.25U..............1.5oz PPPK
900pm..............................................................2.0oz PPPK bf fed kc

Sept 6th
200am.......+11........348............1.0U...........2.0ozPPPK
1030am....+8.5.........332............................1.5ozPPPK
215pm......+12.5........176.............................1.0ozPPP will retest in 15 mins
245......+12.45........275...............1.0U.....................1.pozPPP
300am...........+12...............422..............1.5u ............... 1.0ozsheba * high #s and higher dose bc he was stressed all afternoon /night bc he wouldn't eat anything, he pooped huge monster and then refused all foods, cant even remember how many cans, but he won't eat FF any more
Sept 7th
>150-250....0.50u
>250 -400...0.75u
>401+.........1.00u

900am........+6...........318..........................1.0ozSheba
200pm.......+11...............373 ...........0.75U................1.0ozPPP
800pm......+6................313...................................1.0ozsheba

Sept 8th
200am.....+12..........327...............0.75U............1.5ozsheba
800am......+6...........307....................................1.0oz sheba
1000am....+8...........308....................................1.0oz sheba
200pm.........+12.........291...................
230pm.......+12.5.......321..........0.75U..............1.0ozsheba
1130pm.....+9............294..................................1.0oz
130am.......+11.........327..................................treat

Sept 9th
830am......+7..........266.................................1.0oz
230pm......+12.........351.............0.75U..............1.0oz
930pm.......+7..........321...................................1.0oz
230am.......+12.........375..............1.0U...............1.0oz sheba

150-250....1.25u
250 -400...1.50u
401+.........1.75u


Sept 10th
900am....+6.5.......206....................................1.0oz
230pm......+12...........407.............1.75U..............1.0oz
930pm.......+7............297.............1.0oz
230am........+12............332..........1.5U..............1.5oz

Sept 11th
900am.........+7.5...........282.........................1.0oz
150-250....1.75
250 -400...2.00
401+.........2.00F
245pm....+11.5.........370............2.0U............0.0
745pm.....+5...........158................................1.0oz sheba I was wondering why KC was so friskey, pretty fast dip here, and early , he didnt eat earlier, definitely need to check him before bed again.
930pm.....+6..........175..................................treat

Sept 12th
230am......+12.......227.............1.50F U.........1.0oz I was scared to give him 1.75U, dont know why,gave him 1.5 Fatty Unit
830am......+6..........250................................1.0ozFFK
300pm......+12.5......367...........2.0U..............0.0oz sheba wouldn't eat
830pm.....+5.5.........281................................still wont eat but wants to play,ruff..lol
1030pm....+7.5........278................................still wont eat....but playful

Sept 13th
230am.....+11.5.......336.........2.0U.................still wont eat
900am......+6.5........302.................................still wont eat
1100am.................................................finally ate but had to put his vet DM low carb dry food on top of wet food to bribe him
1230pm.....+10.........319...................................treat
230pm......+12.......392............2.0U..................treat
830pm......+6............348.............................2.0OZPPPK
230am..........+12............393...........2.0U. ...................1.5ozPPPK
900am....... +6.5...........189.........................1.0ozFF
230pm......+12...........298............2.0U..........2.0oz sheba
430pm......+2..........257....................treat
900pm..................................bf fed 2.0oz sheba
1230am......+10..........398..........1.75U...........1.0oz sheba *-.25u bc its +10 early but pretty high bg, maybe 230pm shot was fur shot
200am.....+1.5.........402..................................treat

Sept 15th
600am.....+5.5..........336.............................1.0ozFFK
1000am....+9.5...........355............................1.0ozPPPK
130pm.......+13........ 381.......... 2.0U...........2.0oz sheba
730pm...... +6..........327..................1.0ozFFK he is out searching for water, that hasn't happened for awhile.

150-250....1.25u
250 -400...1.50u
401+.........1.75

Sept 16th

200am+12.5............322..........1.5U................2.0ozFF
800am.....+6........197............................1.0oz sheba
1200pm.....+10......186..........................1.0ozsheba
230pm.......+12......306.........1.5U.........2.0ozsheba
530pm.......+3..........266................................treat
900pm........+6.5........275............................3.0oz sheba

Sept 17th
230am........+12...........376...........1.5U.............2.0ozFF
730am.........+5............273...............................2.0oz sheba

 

For posting here, Step 1 is going to be picking 1 dose and sticking to it for a minimum of 2 full days if the nadirs are high per the Tight Regulation protocol and 3 to 5 days if the nadirs are under that.
The 2 days is a fast track for Lantus and the 3 -5 days is the more normal evaluation period for a dose.

 

Kimi, if you can input your #'s into the Spreadsheet BJ linked you to above...I think you may get more eyes and feedback in the Lantus/Lev forum. The SS color codes your numbers ( you don't have to do anything).. so it's easier to see patterns. They are all using the same insulins and are most versed in the protocol. I do see lots of dose hopping...Lantus likes consistency, both in dose and timing. You've been at this a little while and aren't getting much response here..... Go post your thread there and see if we can get you some more feedback. I assure you they will want to see your SS though, so get that linked in your signature and go check it out.

 

This forum with its spread sheets is not user friendly! WTH!!??? how many times do I have to read the directions and still cant get it, it literally has me in tears and I'm ready to throw this laptop............................................................................................and linked in your signature? thought I did do that....I had a friend that was coming over thursday to help me and she had to cancel....I'm seriously at the point of saying F%$#@ IT ! Its bad enough I cant get my cat stable and now I have to be a computer tech to understand crap that we didn't have when I was in school...its suppose to help and it is infuriating me ...I cant do your spread sheet, I'll have to wait till next week when my gf can help me..

 

Reread my post, it sounds mean and nasty, by all means that's not how I wanted to put it out there I'm just frustrated sorry if anybody takes it that way

 

I myself do not use the spreadsheet since it is slow to use/update and as you said, it is not that easy to setup.
If you know Excel or another spread sheet yo can set that up the way you like and attach the spreadsheet file with the Upload a File button.
For ease of review it would be better if yu start with the time after shot or AM/PS PS (morning preshot BG or evening preshot BG) and then the BG. You can list the actual time at the end if you wish but listing it first just creates confusion when viewing the information

 

Kimi, how does this look? I don't know if I necessarily got all the AM and PM's right, but all of the numbers you had are in there.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...bkcWaCHh-PXfnhBT3ArLcRlv6E/edit#gid=361360320

 

The 9/18 AM dose is missing a decimal point I suspect. Should be 1.5 units not 15 units

 

Thanks. Fixed.

 

I was unable to look at it

 

I played around with my sheet, but if someone comes and turns off the lap top or closes the window Id be damned to never find it again...lol
am I even posting in the right places to get the most eyes on this?
I cant figure out how to save or post my spread sheet....can you see the updates?

 

To create or edit a Google document or spreadsheet, you must be logged in to Google first.
Then, you may see a small grid of squares in the upper right of your display.
Clicking on the grid lists the Google Apps.
Select Drive.
This will open a list of all your files.
You should see your spreadsheet in the list.
Click on your spreadsheet to open and edit it.
Google automatically saves every few minutes.

 

Kimi, are you still unable to add it to your signature? I think I figured out the problem, and I have made the changes. You should have a new link in your email that you can add.

 

I can see it. Part of it is text, so it doesn't fit neatly in the cells, it just lays over it. The recent entries are in cells and are color coding.

 

@BJM , can you see this? It is the one I did for her, now just trying to figure out how to give it to her so she can use it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...okri2AaghTDMKmbEs5c7Kstv0/edit#gid=1291369478

 

It tells me to request access.

 

GRRR!!! I've been trying to figure out how to help with doing to SS to help Marje out, but not having much luck.

 

On the upper right is a Share button. That should let others with the link view it (make sure to select View)

 

I think since I already transferred ownership, I can't do that anymore. I'm rolling my eyes here!

 

@BJM, what about now? https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bCnEB3KHtTux22ZkIKokri2AaghTDMKmbEs5c7Kstv0/edit?usp=sharing

 

Got it.

 

Now if I can just figure out how to get it to her!!

 

If you set it to sharing with edit rights for her e-mail address, she can File, Save a copy which will place a copy in her own Drive folders.
Then, that one is hers and you can delete the one you have.

 

Thanks BJ. I'm trying that. Talking to Marje to try and figure out if I did it right.

 

I've sent her a PM. I can get this fixed in no time as soon as I hear from her.

 

holy cow confusing, my gmail is kccatpierce@gmail, but I havent been able to get to that email...I need to read all the help you guys are giving me, but I landed a job, and get to work tonight..in a few hrs till bar time closeing...I will check all my reading material tomorrow, I dont work for 1-1/2 weeks after tonight....thanks for helping, be paitent, I'll learn it sooner then later hopefully

 

I sent her a spreadsheet yesterday and also sent her an email giving her permission to "edit" it. I'd offered when I was helping someone else set theirs up in the Facebook group several days ago and she contacted me yesterday to work on it

At the time I sent the email, it told me she didn't have a Google account connected to that email addy, but it gave me the impression she'd still be able to start putting her numbers into it and once she got it started, I was going to set her as the sole owner

Looks like she's gotten lots of help!!...LOL

 

What I think would be good is if only one person help her who totally understands how to do the SSs and transfer ownership to her. It's going to be very confusing to her if she has two or three SSs in her google account.