Kitty 911 help/advice

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Troylikescats, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Hi there. My car is currently having a hypoglycemic episode. For the first time ever. I’m not well versed in feline diabetes. But I do know up until right now, 3units of u-100 novolin has managed my cats diabetes. I’m the only one home and don’t have a license to take my cat anywhere so this is horrible timing. The local vet is closed and the ER vet is 40 miles away. I’ve gotten her out of the worst of it with some maple syrup, but she is still lethargic and refusing to eat. I’m not really sure what to do. As it seems she won’t eat her wet food, I may need to baby her through the night until the vet opens in 8 1/2 hours. Advice? Any would be extremely helpful

    -Troy
     
  2. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Thank you in advance
     
  3. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Do you have a meter to test her with? Do you have any gray style food?
     
  4. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    How long ago was her last shot?
     
  5. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    You can rub syrup on the gums if you can't get him to "eat" it....you can also try things like ice cream or yogurt

    Do you have a meter so you can check his glucose levels?
     
  6. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    I do not have a meter to test her with. And what do you mean grey style food? I mean I just sorta know that she doesn’t seem drunk anymore. If I rouse her, her tail has a lively flick to it.
     
  7. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Her last shot was at 5pm. And it’s currently 1137 here
     
  8. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    I mean I’ve given her syrup and she’s not as bad. But if she doesn’t eat the maple syruo will wear off quicky
     
  9. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I meant gravy, not gray, sorry! Sometimes you can get them to lick up the gravy if you squeeze it out of the can; that's the part with the most carbs.
     
  10. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Yes, the syrup will only last about 20 minutes or so. You're about halfway through a 12 hr cycle, so you've still got a bit to go. Chris's suggestion about ice cream or yogurt is a good one; if you have any (as long as it's not chocolate) maybe she'd eat some of it?
     
  11. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    I do have some. That’s what she won’t. Would it make sense to put some of the gravy on a needle-less syringe and feed her tiny bits that way. I don’t mean I’m gonna force it down her throat. Just little drops to keep her from dropping too low?
     
  12. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    + 6.5 hours after shot.

    Do you by chance have a diabetic neighbour or a diabetic relative close by whose meter you could borrow? Keeping in mind that the owner of the meter would have to bring it to you.
     
    Critter Mom and Squalliesmom like this.
  13. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Yes, you could try syringing some gravy. Dry food, if you have it and she'll eat it, is high in carbs, too. It will take it a little longer to work, though.
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  14. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Is there a friend or relative who could go pick you up a meter at Walmart and bring it to you?
     
    Red & Rover (GA) likes this.
  15. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Has the vet done a curve? If so, did the vet give you any idea how long the Novolin had effect during the curve?
     
  16. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    I don’t think I have a way to get a meter at the moment. When she was first diagnosed we just worked closely with our vet and had her blood checked regularly, currently every six months. And it’s always been good, no problems. This is the first time I’ve seen her hypoglycemic to the extent it was earlier. When I first noticed it caught me so off guard my immediate thought was she was dying, not hypoglycemic or anything diabetes . I got some maple syrup on her gums and it perked her up a bit. I mean I’ll get one ASAP though. Now it Seems kinda dumb And irresponsible I didn’t have one the whole time. I’m gonna try the gravy to get carb base sugars In her. I will post again in the morning after I take her to the vet, or if I run into any more problems
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  17. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    No curve. I don’t even kno that is. Should my vet have done that or talked to me about that? When I talk to the vet, they would just say things like “her numbers are a little high, we should increase from 2 up to 3 units twice a day” or “her numbers are great, your doing good”
     
  18. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Okay. Good luck, just keep pushing the carbs for now. Without a meter, there's no way to know if her blood glucose is high enough yet.
     
    Critter Mom and Red & Rover (GA) like this.
  19. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    It's vital to be able to test at home!
     
  20. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    A curve is when you take them into the vet and the vet tests them every 2 hours throughout an entire cycle to see how they're responding.

    The problem with curves done at the vets office is they're really unreliable at best. The stress of being thrown in a carrier, driven to the vet's office, sitting in the lobby with barking dogs and yowling cats and then poked and prodded by a person they don't really like much anyway can raise the glucose up to 200 points. The vet see's those high numbers and thinks they need more insulin. You go home, kitty relaxes and you have the recipe for a tragedy

    Unfortunately, most vets don't talk to people about home testing. Some are just very anti-home testing, but I think a lot of it has to do with the worry that people may just decide to euthanize instead of "going to all that trouble" (but I think if someone has decided to treat their cat, they should be given the information at least on home testing!!....let the owner make the decision!!)
     
  21. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Not knowing what the blood glucose levels are, I'd suggest pushing the carbs a bit longer tonight. Many cats do not show any signs of a hypo until it is too late. It is good that you caught it. You just saved your cat's life. The 3 unit dose is obviously too high.

    Do keep in mind that tomorrow's numbers may likely be higher than usual. It is called a "bounce," and the vet should not base the dosing on that number. Dosing is based on how low the cat goes, not how high.

    Feed the carbs.

    • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
     
  22. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I would also suggest a reduced dose in the morning. Don't want to give her the same dose that pushed her too low.
     
  23. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    So. When my gf gets home at 4am (currently 12:13am) she will have picked up a diabetes bg meter thing. My cat is a 10 year old, 12 lbs cat. Is there a specific range her bg should be in for her size or is it just standard levels? I’m thinking I need a new vet
     
  24. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Also, @Chris & China, I think your right about the vets being anti-home testing. My vet said since her numbers looked ok and manageable with minimal effort that going through the ptontial trouble if the cat even letting me test it, maybe shaving a tiny square off the cat, etc wasn’t worth the trouble. Clearly it was worth the trouble
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  25. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    One of the members has posted a great video on youtube about how to test your cat's blood glucose.
     
  26. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Awesome! Thank you everyone. If you guys weren’t here I think I’d still be an awkwardly crying grown man.
     
  27. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Normal levels for cats are 50-120 on a human meter.....below 50 is your "time to act" and feed some high carb food, karo/syrup/honey to get them back above 50

    Sure wouldn't hurt to call around!! First, Novolin isn't really a good insulin for cats in the first place. Some do OK on it, but there are better insulin's like Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc.

    Novolin tends to "hit hard and fast" and then wear off before it's time to shoot again. The other insulins are longer lasting and more gentle.
     
  28. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Is the cat feeling any better?
     
  29. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    I'm off to bed. It's coming up to 2 a.m. for me.

    If you run into further trouble tonight, scroll up to the top of this thread and click on "thread tools" then "edit title" then "no prefix." Change the prefix to the red 911. It is used for emergencies and will get eyes on you fast.
     
  30. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Hope your cat is okay now. If you come back in the morning we can help you with more questions and info you may need, and get you set up with our spreadsheet for regular testing, etc. It will be a huge help to you, believe me! :):):)
     
  31. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Yes thank you. I mean she’s still a little lethargic, but she decided to walk and get some water on her own. It looked a little funny still, but earlier she couldn’t walk, or really even hold her head up right for that matter
     
  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I really hope you come back to let us help you. The way we recommend managing your kitty's diabetes is a little more work but it quickly becomes routine and can help prevent another episode like last night's.
     
  33. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    So I understand people probably come here all the time because it’s their only option. But for me personally, If I wasn’t willing to do the work I wouldn’t have posted here desperately asking for help and information to increase my understanding. I got my cat eating finally at 7am, she was looking like she was half way through her food when I decided she would probably eat all of it so I gave her 1.5 units of u-100 novolin. (Will look into getting/ finding a different kind later today) checked her with new handy dandy meter. And it was at 183. Took her to the vet. They took some blood and said that since her number was a bit high but overall ok would call me in a couple hours when they had more extensive results. They said keep checking her cause the bg can fluctuate a bunch in these situations til we get it under wraps. I’m definitely interested in more help, although i stayed up all night with my cat and I work in 4 hours. So I’m taking s much needed nap now. I’m interested in this spreadsheet business and tracking my cat closely. So I will definitely hop back on after my nap
     
  34. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Very glad to read this. Congrats on getting a blood test done with your new meter! :smuggrin:
     
  35. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
  36. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Alright folks. I got a pen and paper handy, and am ready to absorb all sorts off knowledge. First question. What does a curve do for me and how do I start one, or keep detailed information in a handy format or whatever. The vet said give it until she is back to a sufficiently stable place and then start the curve thing. so I want gonna get a head start. Looked into a different kind of insulin, the vet said he would have to order it and that it would take a special/different kind of syringe. Does that make sense?
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  37. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Also, I forgot what the vet called the insulin. But it was only 2 or 3 letters long and it had an the letter “i” in it? I should have written it down, but I don’t know where to find Somethjng else so I just went along with it
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  38. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Squalliesmom and Teenuh like this.
  39. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Then, as to what a curve will do for you: it will help you map your cat's response to the insulin it was given. In particular, it will help you see how low the insulin dose the cat is getting will take his BG (blood glucose). You want to find an insulin dose that takes your cat's BG low enough (to counteract the diabetes) but not so low that the cat will risk hypoglycemia (which you've already encountered).

    There are various methods and protocols to help fine-tune the dose of insulin you're giving. These methods will vary depending on the insulin you're giving, and also your availability for testing and follow-up, etc.

    Three letters and an "i" -- could it be PZI?
     
    Adam Flowers, Squalliesmom and Teenuh like this.
  40. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
  41. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Thank you for the links. Yes it was PZI
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  42. Teenuh

    Teenuh Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Come over to the PZI message board. They can "better" guide you in the right direction as far as dosages. I'm not saying the main forum can't, but the PZI message board has vets super familiar with it.
     
  43. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    One type of PZI is called ProZinc. Yes, do go over to the ProZinc/PZI forum. I suggest you start by reading the yellow info stickies at the top of that forum's main page because they'll answer a lot of your basic questions. Post any other questions you have over there or anything from the stickies that you don't understand and so on. :)
     
  44. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Quick question. I know there are threads asking similar questions but no one seems to know for sure. Zoe’s tummy is normally quite distended normally, I think from the diabetes, but it seems to me that today it’s just ridiculous. It’s very hard and misshapen. Does, or can, issues stemming from diabetes like hypoglycemia cause constipation, gas, or more bloating than normal?
     
  45. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Not that I've heard but I haven't been around all that long :-/ -- hope somebody more knowledgeable can chime in!
    Or could it be a consequence of the hypoglycemic episode?
     
  46. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I think it's usually more a matter of a GI issue like a food intolerance, etc.
     
    Teenuh likes this.
  47. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Hey everyone. I just wanted to give an update. I’ve been working with the vet over the last few days and as it turns Zoe’s diabetes has gone into remission and she doesn’t need to take insulin anymore. However there was a larger issue at play. The stomach issue I asked about has turned out to be growths that are affecting the way she eats and absorbs food. I don’t have thousands of dollars to spend on diagnostics, and certainly not treatment but the vet feels very confident that it’s lymphoma. As of this moment, she hasn’t eaten much of the way of gravy and whole milk for the past few days, so I’m about an hour she’s going to the vet to get some anti-nausea and steroids to see if that can help get to the point where she wants to eat. Because she’s hungry, and lets you know, but won’t eat anything. No tuna oil or anything you would think to entice the cat, even those bonito flake things, will bring her to eat. Feels a little like I just got slapped in the face. But I’m glad you were all here to help me and Zoe in our time of need
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  48. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Oh, so sorry to hear about the lymphoma. I hope the meds will help. You must be feeling heartbroken.
     
  49. Troylikescats

    Troylikescats New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2018
    Yes I am. We’ve been pals since high school. Well I got her right out of high school, she came with me to college, been through it all. It may be selfish but I really hope these meds get her eating so I can spend a little quality time with her before her health declined further and have to end our time together. I appreciate everything you guys do
     
    PussCatPrince and Adam Flowers like this.
  50. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    I understand where you're at. A cat that leaves you takes a slice of your life with it. I hope you can get more time together.
     
  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm so sorry you had such bad news. I really hope some meds will make her more comfortable. :bighug:
     
    Stephanie & Quintus likes this.
  52. Vader723

    Vader723 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2017
    I'm so sorry. I can't imagine the pain you must be feeling. Hoping along with others that she can be made comfortable and allow you more head butts, chin scritches, and big big hugs
     
  53. PussCatPrince

    PussCatPrince Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    You mate , gets a squishy hug from me across the miles for all that is happening to you and your pusscat.
    It's OK. It's a grandma style hug.
     
  54. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    I didn't read the whole thread. If it is Small Cell Lymphoma (SCL), then it is treatable. Even if you suspect that, the treatment is fairly inexpensive.

    Summary:
    - Leo stopped eating mid 2017
    - SCL was diagnosed
    - Daily prednisolone tablet resolved eating issues and reduced intestine inflammation
    - Compounded liquid chemo (Leukeran) is given every 2nd day just before food

    Net cost for treatment:
    $1/day for the prednisolone tablets from the vet
    $25/month for the chemo, which gets shipped to me from Houston

    Cats with SCL can live a long time after they get treatment (3 months to 4 years). The treatment basically lasts the rest of their lives. I hope this is helpful.
     

Share This Page