Litterbox fills so fast since diagnosed with diabetes.

Hi all..I'm new to forum chat but I'm so glad I found this board. My Cecilia, which I've had for 12 years was just diagnosed with feline diabetes. I give her 3 units a day and she is holding her own. This whole thing has ripped my heart out as I'm sure you all have felt the same sense of helplessness I do. My biggest problem right now is that I'm going through tons of kitty litter and it's like she p's buckets a day. Is anyone else having this problem or should I see if it's related to something else? Thanking you all in advance and my prayers to all.

 

Welcome Sam and Cecilia,

Can you tell us a bit more? When was she diagnosed? What insulin is she on? Did she start with 3 units? What is she eating?

We have a very successful protocol: a mild, long lasting insulin, wet low carb food and testing at home.

They certainly do fill the litter box until they are regulated. Maybe we can help her get regulated.

 

When cats are diabetic, they are thirsty and pee a lot...a whole lot. So this is one of the main symptons of diabetes. Are you home testing? What insulin are you using? What are you feeding?

 

Thank you for the reply. She was diagnosed a month and a half ago. We started out on 2 units a day of Vetsulin. I took her back in and they said she was still to high so they started the 3 units about 3 weeks ago. As far as food, uhg! She has always been the pickiest eater you can imagine. She refuses to eat anything but dry food. I could put a buffet of a cooked turkey, steak or eggs out and she would never touch them. Her appetite seems much better this last few days. I want to get a glucometer but scared to death of poking her in here little ear ... I am open to any and all advice. I have learned that it is very important to go to a vet who is familiar with feline diabetes and has treated it for some time. There are actually vets out there that don't know beans about it. Thank you so much

 

Home testing will allow you to see exactly how the insulin is working. If your numbers are from testing at the vet, it is possible that she is lower. Stress raises blood glucose levels and most cats are very stressed at the vet. It's also very important to know the levels halfway through the cycle. Sometimes if the levels drop mid cycle, they bounce back up for the pre shot tests, so raising the dose is counterproductive. It is also important to know what her level is before each shot, to be sure the dose you are planning to give is safe. We can help you learn how. The secret is to find a low carb treat that your kitty loves; soon they ignore the poke because they know a treat is coming.

Here is a website by a vet explaining why wet low carb food is best for diabetic felines; she also has some great ideas for transitioning stubborn eaters. www.catinfo.org

 

Yep, I think you will have to start home testing. Insulins are hormones and they are pretty unpredictable. You can give the same dose each time but the results from each cycle can be very different. So by not home testing, you don't know how well this insulin is doing. You can keep your kitty safe by home testing while also making that insulin more efficient. Worse case scenario, you could be blindly shooting a low number and sending her to a very critical hypo situation. On the other end of the spectrum, your numbers could be super high and you are doing more harm because you are not able to get the diabetes under control. It is not that bad to home test. Scarry at first but in no time, it just becomes a part of the routine and eventually, Cecilia won't mind. She will know that you are only trying to help her.

Regarding the diet, all these kitties that come to this forum have been eating dry food. Dry food is very bad and very high in carbs. It also does not contain enough moisture content. Most of us had hard times in transitioning them to wet, low carb food but we finally do it. When you transition, and I hope that you do, you will find that she may drop as low as 100 points. You will need to be testing to know this. If she starts dropping, she may need less insulin.

Let us know how we can help you. There are lots of experienced folks here that can help you with testing, monitoring, data collection, doses, etc.

 

I sure appreciate all the input. I don't feel so all alone out here. If I get a meter to test with, I'm assuming by what's been said she will have to be tested daily before her insulin dose, correct? Is there a particular meter that is best for felines?

You have no idea how many times I've pulled my hair out trying to get her to eat wet food instead of dry. I've tried for years....one time going as long as 6 days when she would not touch the wet food. She won't have anything to do with ANY kind of treat either. Please believe me when I say I have tried every kitty food there is over the years and all I get is a dirty look !! I talked to my vet about it and he is of the opinion that if she is that steadfast in her feelings I probably can't get her to change and he had no solutions, really.

 

Most people here use ReliOn meters. They and the strips are the least expensive. There are pet meters, but they are expensive as are the strips. As we are looking for trends and patterns, we find human meters work just as well. There are lots of videos and links on the link I gave you. We have a shopping list if you want. You might start by deciding where you are going to test (some people use the counter, the bed or couch or between your legs) and take her there. Play with her ears, give her treats and praise and let her go. After a few times, add playing with her ears. Then add warming her ears. Then, finally the poke (after you have practiced with the meter and the lancet). Always a treat, successful test or not.

You might check out the vet website and see if any of any of her transition ideas work. Some people swear by FortiFlora; it has the same flavor enchanter that makes wet food more irresistible. If she absolutely can't be switched, at least pick one of the lower carb dry foods.

 

There are two other dry food that some have used. One I think one is the EVO Adult & Kitten Dry and the other is Young Again Dry which is bought online and pretty expensive. I may not be getting the names right but I am sure someone will chime in with the correct name. You certainly do not want Cecilia to not eat anything as that could cause other complications. There is a link on this site about transitioning your food to wet, low carb food so that might have some helpful hints and tips for you to try.

Most folks here use the human meter. I bought mine from Walmart. You can get a Relion Micro or Relion Confirm. The micro doesn't need much blood. They are about $15. You will also need 28 gauge Freestyle lancets which Walmart has too and that is $10 for 100. You will also need testing strips for the Micro or Confirm. They run $35 for 100 or you can find them a little cheaper online. There are other good human meters out there too but those are the ones that I am familiar with.

There are great videos on how to test. Here is also the place where you will want to take blood from the ear: http://s106.photobucket.com/user/chupie_2006/media/testingear/sweetspot.jpg.html

I am glad that you are taking that first step in home testing. It is really the only way to help out Cecilia.

I see that you are from Oregon. I used to live in Scotts Mills, OR for four years. I loved it there.

 

Okay Sue ... this is funny! You always beat me!

 

For lancets/gauges, you can use any brand. I use Walmart's ReliOn 26 lancets but any brand is fine. The higher the #, the thinner the lancet but the longer it will take to get blood when you are starting out. Poking doesn't hurt a cat at all. Cats have few nerve receptors in their ears and the more you poke, the easier it will be to draw blood because more capillaries are formed.

To transition CJ off dry food, I sprinkled Forti Flora on low carb food and she no longer misses kibble. Forti Flora is very appealing to cats, is also a good probiotic and often helps with diarrhea. You can find Forti Flora online at sites such as Amazon and http://www.adwdiabetes.com.

Here is a primer on Vetsulin in our insulin forum: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vetsulin-caninsulin-user-guide.302/

When you home test, you'll be able to see if Vetsulin is working or not for your cat. Not many cats do well on Vetsulin because it is shorter acting than longer lasting insulins like Lantus and ProZinc.

I was afraid of home testing but the day I learned how to do it, I learned CJ was hypo (blood glucose too low) and received excellent guidance from members here to get her #'s safely back up. Had I not been home testing, CJ would have ended up in the ER and I would have received a huge bill.

Here is a link to some good tips and videos to get you started on home testing: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Practice getting your cat used to touching her ears first, reward with praise and low carb treats (CJ just gets a lot of praises but you'll find what works for you and your cat) and know that this will get easier!

An additional tip: Put a very tiny dab of ointment such as Neosporin, Polysporin or Vaseline on your cat's ear with a q-tip after you warm up her ear. The ointment helps the blood bead up easier.

 

Sam,
I also had a dry food addict so I transitioned her gradually to evo dry which is lower in carbs. I then started trying different canned foods...my first success was with Merricks surf n turf. Once she started eating that, I gradually cut out the dry. By chance one day I offered her fancy feast turkey and giblets classic and to my surprise she loved it! Which was great because much less expensive than Merricks. Noe she is solely on turkey and giblets and no longer likes surf n turf! Believe me, I never thought I would get her on canned food so just stick with it. Some days there was a buffet lined up until we found a food she liked. It really makes a difference, in my experience, with lowering the bg numbers. Good luck!

 

Just a quick question for you - are you giving insulin 1 time a day or 2 times a day?
I ask because no insulin lasts 24 hours in the cat.

 

I am so overwhelmed at all the response and the time you have all taken to help us. First to answer BJM, my vet only has me giving it once a day so you can bet I'll be putting him to the wall.

I am going to bookmark all the sites I've been given, and make notes of what you have all said. The only thing I didn't ask that comes to mind is...Do I need a written prescription from my vet to get insulin? I was in health care before retiring and why I never put human diabetes and feline in the same slot I just don't know...other than it just blew me away.

Thank you again for all of your help. I will definitely be back to give some updates once I get all the proper items I need to help her. My gratitude runs deep and I only hope one day I can help someone as frightened as I've been.

 

Hi Sam and Cecilia. Welcome to you both.

My cat, Saoirse, was first treated with Caninsulin (UK brand name for Vetsulin). It is an intermediate-acting insulin. Three units is not an insignificant dose to give at one time. It's fairly harsh at onset and can drop the blood glucose level a lot in the first few hours after a dose. Vetsulin's effects typically start wearing off from about 8 hours after the dose was administered, but there can be a little residual 'carry over' effect from one 12-hour dosing cycle into the next cycle. I note from your most recent post on this thread that you're only giving 3 units Vetsulin once a day. When you go back to discuss twice a day dosing with your vet, I would suggest not going to 3 units twice a day because you have no blood test data gathered yet and I think it would be safer to maybe move to a lower twice-a-day (BID) dose to start with to make sure Cecilia is safe. You could then check Cecilia's blood glucose at home to see how the dose is working. After holding the starting dose for a number of 12-hour dosing cycles if it's not enough you can increase it in gradual steps until you get to a dose that better regulates Cecilia but keeps her in safe numbers. As Cecilia becomes better regulated, there should be fewer litter box lakes. Also, as she spends more of each 24-hour period in better numbers it will give her little pancreas a chance to rest and possibly recover some function.

As Sue mentions above, there are also gentler insulins available such as Prozinc, Lantus and Levemir. They tend to last longer in a cat's body than Vetsulin (although some cats can do well on the latter).

I see that you've already had input from other members on blood glucose monitoring. We also advise checking urine regularly for ketones. You can get Keto-Diastix or similar test strips anywhere that does supplies for human diabetics. Whereas a cat may throw ketones at any BG level, it's particularly important to keep an eye out for them when BG numbers are high. For information, anything more than trace ketones requires immediate veterinary attention (so as to avoid the cat developing diabetic ketoacidosis).


Mogs
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If you have a vet visit coming up, you may want to ask about other insulin options. Many here use Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc. Lantus and Levemir are dosed very similarly (depot insulin) and Prozinc is a little different (in and out 12 hour insulin). These three work very well with kitties and all three of these have longer lasting nadirs and are not as harsh as Vetsulin.

 

No pet insulin works for 24 hours. Vetsulin, at best, may be working up to 8 hours. Optimally, it is given every 8 hours but few caretakers have the time and will to do that.
The other insulins, Lantus and Prozinc, are given every 12 hours.

 

Regarding your litter box question - yep - my cat Zac fills it QUICK (urine)!!! I too am spending a ton on kitty litter. He's been on Lantus insulin now for about 1.5 weeks. He's still drinking a LOT of water and of course, peeing a lot. The vet just raised his insulin amount each day....I'm hoping to the litter box issue will subside some. Like many other here I will be buying a blood glucose meter and checking
Zac frequently (just waiting on the next pay-day). He IS showing a good bit of improvement in general. I hope your girls does as well!

 

First things first, then. If you split that total dose in half and give each half every hours, you will probably get better control for more of the time..
As noted, Vetsulin can require dosing every 8 hours for optimal glucose control, which is why we suggest ProZinc, BCP PZI (similar in action to Vetsulin, but last longer, so your vet won't have to learn too much new to him), or Lantus or Levemir, which both are depot insulins and require a whole new way of thinking about giving insulin (likely to be a challenge for many vets, but it is do-able for a motivated vet.) If you decide to go with Lantus or Levemir, the US has some outrageous high pricing on it and you may find that ordering those from Canada will be better (ex 77Canada - members here have used them), since you can finish up with the Caninsulin while the order ships.

 

@Zac and Zoe's dad -

Until you get hold of a glucometer, you can get some idea of Zac's progress by monitoring how much water he consumes each day (either using a measuring jug, or by weight). See BJ's secondary monitoring tools in her signature line.

.

 

Bojangles too peed a lot - that's how I learned something was wrong. Literally seemed like I was scooping out 5lbs of litter/pee per day. And/or picture a 13x9 lasagne or cake pan and it was half full of wet, pasty cement. We were lucky that in the first week on insulin, the pee production dropped by half. We're now approaching even less than that. While I'm sure this is also a case of "not all cats are alike" she's definitely closer in pee output to her sister Waimea.

 

I have an elderly kitty whose kidneys are failing. Her litter box too was a SWAMP. I have found the "Breeze" litter box system very helpful for her. PetSmart sells it. The absorbent pellets and pad really ARE incredibly absorbent. The pads cost about $1 each, and you must change at least every 2-3 days, possibly more, but they are worth it.

 

Once we got Stormy's insulin regulated (which included switching from Vetsulin to Lantus), the amount of urine he was producing went back down to normal. Prior to that, we had the same issues - literal pools of pee on top of the already over saturated litter!!

Good luck and don't forget to breathe!!