LOOK PLZ 11/23-24 TAFFY heading down/AMPS 413/+2 373/+4 309/+11 292/PMPS 301/2u/PM+2 212/PM+8.5 108

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Taffy is coming back down, little by little.

Question: What is worrisome high on the human meters? If they only stay there for a short time, is it harmful? I ask, because, when he tested in the high 300s and mid-400s at the vet's office (when Dx'd, using Alpha Trak) the vet was very concerned and said that this was very high and I needed to start insulin right away and get him down. I knew nothing yet, of course, about what I was getting into. I purchased an Alpha Trak per his instructions and used it for about two weeks. When I made the switch to the human meter, I tested with both for several tests, for comparison. When the ReliOn was testing at 285, the AT was 420; RO 340, AT 473. I stopped testing double after only a few comparisons, but now when I am getting in the 400s on the RO, wouldn't that be super high on the AT (and therefore would be very high per my vet)? Is this dangerous or worrisome when they go up that high?

By the way, I have not heard a peep from my vet since Nov 8th when he responded to an email from me and told me to increase to 2u and no need to check BG levels for 72 hours...??? (no phone call or emails since) FYI, I didn't actually make it up to 2u until 8 days after that email. He was a new vet that I had sought out for more help with Taffy's vague digestive troubles, possibly food intolerance testing, and help with the asthma (maybe acupuncture). He is supposed to be more inclined toward holistic and integrative care, but idk. I was just looking for someone who would think outside the veterinary box. I was not expecting the diabetes diagnoses at all , and I don't think that he was either (this was our first visit). He is a very nice guy, but very young and I'm not sure how experienced with the diabetes in cats. He was stressing low fat food, but Taffy was also having a mild panc flare at the time as well, and fatty foods do seem to set this off for Taffy. Anyhow, I finally wrote him an email update last night and brought him up-to-date on how we are faring and told him about FDMB. Have not heard a peep back yet. Perhaps he is out of town for the holiday, but I might be "fired" again. We'll see. (Last vet pretty much told me off, because I ask too many questions and refuse too many meds, etc. I had finally relented and gave oral pred a few times to treat the panc flares, I think that is what pushed Taff into FD, so I should have stuck to my guns, but sometimes the vets really pressure you.) I have a nearby vet that will be fine, I think, for labs and general care, so I may have to go to her for Taffy, too.(I take Baby Kitty there)
 
Good that he is coming down a bit.

I think the thing to remember is that Taffy is spending some time in healthy numbers, so it's less worrying when you see the bounces or he is temporarily high from a skipped shot.

The worry with BG's that are persistently too high is the increased risk of DKA, and stress on kidneys.
DKA can come on quite quick and would be an emergency situation, which is why a lot of us will also monitor for ketones when kitty is running in high numbers using ketostix.
Ketodiastix also allow you to monitor for glucose in the urine, with George he stopped showing glucose in his urine when he was running regularly in the low yellows, that was his renal threshold, but that can vary from cat to cat and also vary a little with the meter you are using. But I would guess that he was below the renal threshold for more than 24hours (probably closer to 30) the last couple of days, and that's good news for his little body:) (of course without checking his urine for glucose that's only a 'guess')

I think what would be more worrying would be if Taffy was just stuck in the pink or red range, the fact that you are getting to green is what you need to focus on at the moment, try not to worry about the red/pink blips.
 
I only have one comparison point between the AT and the Relion, well actually the Glucocard 02 which is also made by the company that makes the Relion. I also have a Relion. The one comparison on the same blood was AT 427, Relion 393. That is well within the 20% allowable meter variance.

I agree with Gill that it's only prolonged high numbers that are a concern. That's actually a question I asked Neko's internal medicine vet a while ago and he confirmed it. BTW, the IM vet is young, and I really like him. He's willing to reasearch things, entertain my suggestions and look for alternatives if I don't like something. Those characteristics rather than base knowledge are what I like in a vet.

That said, regular ketone testing is a good idea if they spend any time in high numbers.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I only have one comparison point between the AT and the Relion, well actually the Glucocard 02 which is also made by the company that makes the Relion. I also have a Relion. The one comparison on the same blood was AT 427, Relion 393. That is well within the 20% allowable meter variance.

I agree with Gill that it's only prolonged high numbers that are a concern. That's actually a question I asked Neko's internal medicine vet a while ago and he confirmed it. BTW, the IM vet is young, and I really like him. He's willing to reasearch things, entertain my suggestions and look for alternatives if I don't like something. Those characteristics rather than base knowledge are what I like in a vet.

That said, regular ketone testing is a good idea if they spend any time in high numbers.
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Sooo...what do you both consider "prolonged"? Prior to Dx and including the first 2 weeks on insulin, Taffy may have been in highs for sometime. So far his kidney values are good but I like to worry ahead of time...just kidding. I'm just curious. Are there any outward signs of DKA or just the ketones in the urine? I do have strips and checked a few times at first when he was running higher.

Sounds like you got a good vet Wendy. Tat is exactly what I was hoping for with my new young vet, someone willing to research and talk with me about things. I'm not writing him off just yet, but waiting to see his response to my e-mail last night. I am a little surprised that he has not called or inquired how we are doing. I've had a hard time in my area finding someone and I am always left on my own and just get labs and such at the vet. It can be very frustrating.o_O
 
Taffysmama said:
So far his kidney values are good but I like to worry ahead of time...just kidding
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Welcome to the helicopter mom club. ;) Prolonged to me means months, which Neko may have done at first. But she has two high dose conditions and it took a while to get to a dose that got her good numbers.

My IM vet doesn't respond to emails until end of day, after seeing clients. Maybe your vet is the same. And we did have a "discussion" about dose and acceptable blood sugar numbers at first. I won that one when I showed the spreadsheet.
 
Taffysmama said:
Sooo...what do you both consider "prolonged"?
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Well not what he is doing at the moment, but weeks/months of high numbers would concern me, so not how his ss looks now.

If he had DKA, he would be pretty poorly, and as far as I understand it's onset can be pretty fast, the best way of staying ahead of that particular issue is to test regularly for ketones when he is in high numbers, and if he starts to show ketones then you need to start to worry.
I tested weekly until he got regulated, more often when he was running consistently high.

Taffysmama said:
I stopped testing double after only a few comparisons, but now when I am getting in the 400s on the RO, wouldn't that be super high on the AT (and therefore would be very high per my vet)? Is this dangerous or worrisome when they go up that high?
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Not necessarily, as far as I understand from folk that have done side by side comparisons, there isn't a linear relationship, the numbers can be all over the place.

When I look back I think George was probably diabetic for more than six months before the penny dropped with me (I can't tell you how guilty I still feel about that), but hey he is healthy, happy and in remission, so I try to focus on that.
Look at Taffies ss, see all those blues and green and focus on that. He is making great progress. George was diagnosed almost exactly a year before Taffy, take a look at his november and december numbers, he didn't look good at all. But once we started seeing more green with him the bounces became shorter, less severe he stopped having glucose in his urine and he started to put some muscle back on. We just kept plodding along following the protocol, drinking copious amounts of coffee and snacking on one chocolate bar too many. Frankly, I never thought that we would go into remission. I just wanted him regulated.
One thing I did when we had spells in green blue, was to count how many hours he'd been in blue and green, and we celebrated (DH and I) each record he broke, then when he went all blue/green we counted just the hours in green and so on, that kept us positive, and illustrated his progress, we had to do something to keep ourselves sane in the crazy roller coaster that is FD.

I was also pretty much alone with my vet, she's great, very caring, but basically all my dosing decisions were made here on this site with the help of the folk here, I learned so much, in such a short time, it helps I guess that I am a bit obsessive:rolleyes:

Try not to worry. Just keep reading the stickies, other posts, look at other ss, it will all help you understand this dance better:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Welcome to the helicopter mom club. ;) Prolonged to me means months, which Neko may have done at first. But she has two high dose conditions and it took a while to get to a dose that got her good numbers.

My IM vet doesn't respond to emails until end of day, after seeing clients. Maybe your vet is the same. And we did have a "discussion" about dose and acceptable blood sugar numbers at first. I won that one when I showed the spreadsheet.
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LOL, I am already a total helicopter mom with Taffy! Pretty much with all of my pets thru the years, but more so with Taffy. I'm a little obsessed with him! It has to do with circumstances on how we found eachother and that he has had various health conditions that vets are little help with.

Long story short, or not really...my dear old epi Dalmatian passed in 2009. I had been the doula for a prego stray and litter of kittens at a friend's house a few months prior. When I had to put Comet down from old age, she sent over the cutest and fluffiest of the bunch to "cheer me up". My first real, healthy kitten, as all other cats in the house were unwanteds from others. Of course, he stayed, and grew into the biggest Maine Coon love bug ever! Scooter. He was truly a special boy! I know they all are special, of course, but this cat was the friendliest, goofiest, most laid back dude. I loved him to pieces. Everybody who came over loved him and he loved them. Well, as it turned out, he literally had a big heart, and I was both unaware of HCM and its tendency in the breed. He was only 3 years old and seemed in perfect health and then one morning he regurgitated his breakfast and went and laid down behind the curtains. I saw his labored breathing and scooped him up and he died in my arms before getting to the vet. I was beyond crushed. Inconsolable. I tried fostering kittens. I was searching online for his twin, looking at other cats named Scooter. I was going nuts. A few months later, my first cat, an orange tabby named Meow Meow, lost his battle with CKD. This was expected, but too much. Then, a friend who knew of my grief said that she knew of an older cat who needed a home because his elderly owner had passed from cancer and the family was allergic. She showed me a picture, and there was Scooter (Taffy) staring back at me. SO, I said "Give me this cat now!!" And here we are. Taffy is a little bit smaller (but still a big boy) and not quite the same personality (more of a spoiled brat!) but he healed my heart. And I am his overbearing Mama! :cat:
 
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With all the new technology out there these days, we may have to retire the helicopter and go with a drone....LOL
children-helicopter_mom-helicopter_parent-overprotective-moms-mums-cwln7201_low.jpg
 
Gill & George said:
Wow quite a drop by that +2!! Hope Taffy and you had a good night. Look like he means to get back to working the juice pretty sharpish.
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Yup. Woke me up for food (4:30am). Some yowling and pupils dilated, Checked BG at 108. Gave FF pate snack and added a little gravy. I hope he is not plummeting, as I am supposed to go out for Thanksgiving tomorrow. Only a couple of hours though and not far. But if he keeps heading down by AMPS I'll need a plan. Hate to skip again.
 
Hi Julie, What time are you going out? ie up until when can you monitor?

eg if you were not going out till +5/+6 (or later), you would probably be OK to shoot even if he was green as you will be able to monitor the first half of the cyclerr, and if he was still green as you were going to head out the door, you could give him a nice portion of HC fuds to abort the cycle and give you peace of mind while you were gone
But if you are going to be out at between +1 to +4 then I would probably suggest skipping altogether, that is likely to be the most active part of the cycle, especially if you find that he number is still dropping or flat by amps.
Getting a +11 in those situations helped me decide if Georges numbers where rising/falling/ or staying flat by PS time, remember it's more important to see which way the numbers are trending than the actual number itself, for example if he was 60 at +11 then 90 at amps that tells you he is on his way up already and the cycle is likely to be less exciting, ie the insulin action from the previous shot is waning, you are at the end of the duration, however, if he was 115 at +11 but 85 at amps, you can see he is dropping, he is still seeing significant insulin action, duration maybe a little longer and so that gives you the heads up to a more 'exciting cycle ', as the two shots overlap, so shooting if you can't monitor may not be the safest option, so that may err you to a skip (If you were going to be home shooting as the number is falling when you can monitor though is a perfect oportunity to take advantage of the overlap and duration to drive Taffy'ss BG range down into that healthy range.

Another alternative is to do a BCS, but as long as you are shooting some insulin you can't be sure that he won't drop while you are out, seeing as he is recovering so well from the skipped shots, I would err to skipping if you are not comfortable shooting the amps.

NB you haven't shot green before, so if you can't monitor the first half of the cycle I would be tempted to skip, as we don't know what he will do and whether he will stay safe.
 
I also am a fan of the +11 test because it can give an indication when compared to the pre-shot test as to how the following cycle will play out.
Let us know what his test is and how many hours after his pre-shot test you will need to leave the house. It's good you won't be far away.
I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving and can be comfortable leaving Taffy for a couple hours.
 
I would not worry as much about a small run of high numbers, especially if the bloodwork is good. Jack's bloodwork improved quickly once he got on insulin, even though he was still having regular visits to the 300 and 400's.

Taffy and Jack must be on the phone with each other. He gave me an unusually low number this morning. He got a reduced dose, and will get a few extra tests before I leave to see where he is. I will probably give some MC food and put some MC in the autofeeder to try to slow any drop. With the limited data you have on Taffy, a skip probably would be safest today. He seemed to get back on track pretty quick after the last few no shots. I fully understand the nail-biting on a day like today with low numbers.
 
Well, once I got back to sleep, I did not wake again to do the +11, but his AMPS was 126. Probably due to the 4:30am snack that he insisted on. So I gave his shot. I'll be able to check him a couple of times before leaving and we won't be gone more than 2 hours. Depending on his spot checks, I'll decide on his snack. Thanks. I need to start a new thread, I guess.
 
uh-oh, I see that Gill said to skip if he was about the same. I thought he was holding so it would be ok. Might be an interesting day I guess. I think I'll give some gravy snack now.

What is a BCS? A reduced dose?
 
I don't think you need to give gravy now. I would wait. He may just be surfing the blues all day. If you give him gravy now, he'll go up temporarily from it and then you won't know if he's surfing along flat blues or going down if he didn't get that gravy. I would save the gravy for a bit later if needed.
That's just my opinion.
 
Gill & George said:
Hi Julie, What time are you going out? ie up until when can you monitor?

eg if you were not going out till +5/+6 (or later), you would probably be OK to shoot even if he was green as you will be able to monitor the first half of the cyclerr, and if he was still green as you were going to head out the door, you could give him a nice portion of HC fuds to abort the cycle and give you peace of mind while you were gone
But if you are going to be out at between +1 to +4 then I would probably suggest skipping altogether, that is likely to be the most active part of the cycle, especially if you find that he number is still dropping or flat by amps.
Getting a +11 in those situations helped me decide if Georges numbers where rising/falling/ or staying flat by PS time, remember it's more important to see which way the numbers are trending than the actual number itself, for example if he was 60 at +11 then 90 at amps that tells you he is on his way up already and the cycle is likely to be less exciting, ie the insulin action from the previous shot is waning, you are at the end of the duration, however, if he was 115 at +11 but 85 at amps, you can see he is dropping, he is still seeing significant insulin action, duration maybe a little longer and so that gives you the heads up to a more 'exciting cycle ', as the two shots overlap, so shooting if you can't monitor may not be the safest option, so that may err you to a skip (If you were going to be home shooting as the number is falling when you can monitor though is a perfect oportunity to take advantage of the overlap and duration to drive Taffy'ss BG range down into that healthy range.

Another alternative is to do a BCS, but as long as you are shooting some insulin you can't be sure that he won't drop while you are out, seeing as he is recovering so well from the skipped shots, I would err to skipping if you are not comfortable shooting the amps.

NB you haven't shot green before, so if you can't monitor the first half of the cycle I would be tempted to skip, as we don't know what he will do and whether he will stay safe.
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Thank you for the great explanation. I will try to get a +11 in the mornings as well as the evenings. What is BCS and NB? Thanks. I started new thread for today.
 
Morning, yes a new thread each day!:bighug::)
Hope you have a good Thanksgiving..haha Turkey is loaded with sleep inducing tryptophan so if you are eating it you might want to set TWO ALARMS for T/f/s
( test/feed/shoot)!!!:p:p:p
BCS ( big chicken Shot, or Big Chicken S**t depending on your preference) is a one time reduced dose
I think NB is not because?
Santa Ana's blowing again...argh I hate them...
 
Gussie's mom said:
Morning, yes a new thread each day!:bighug::)
Hope you have a good Thanksgiving..haha Turkey is loaded with sleep inducing tryptophan so if you are eating it you might want to set TWO ALARMS for T/f/s
( test/feed/shoot)!!!:p:p:p
BCS ( big chicken Shot, or Big Chicken S**t depending on your preference) is a one time reduced dose
I think NB is not because?
Santa Ana's blowing again...argh I hate them...
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Yes, there is a new thread for Taff. Thanks for the explain. His dose was 1.75u instead of 2 this morning because I sqeeuzed a tiny bit too much out and did not want to redo and figured it was ok since he was low. So there I'm a Big Chicken I guess!

Have a great Thanksgiving. Looks like Taffy might give me an exciting one! We are just going to buffet @ Knott's
 
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