? Low, Low sugars

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Julia Rae, Jun 24, 2015.

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  1. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm - are the strips in date? And can you do a comparison test on both meters so we can see roughly what the difference is?
     
  2. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    If you can compare the 2 meters for the next 2 tests (with the strips you've got for your main meter) then we can let this cycle run as normal. If the strips for your old meter aren't good, then I think we do need to abort the cycle to make sure he's safe.
     
  3. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    using me at the test rat true track was 103 and relion was was 108
     
  4. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Is there anywhere nearby you can make a dash for strips?
     
  5. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    no and I dont drive bf is showing up early tomorrow to take me
     
  6. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Hmm I seem to be missing some posts I gather you have another meter and strips there, is that right? Also could you please update his spreadsheet or post a list of the results you have and what you did (eg drop of syrup, tsp HC etc) since the +1
     
  7. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    I have the ss up to date now
     
  8. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Thanks I'll just take a look. And you do have another meter there with plenty of strips?
     
  9. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    At+2.5 gave him canned low carb with 1.5 mm honey that took it to 77 at the he got just low carb wet food+3 he went down to 43 and I gave him more low carb and 1.5 mm honey again
     
  10. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    yes I do the true track has 100 strips
     
  11. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Yay :):):)How long ago was the last test?
     
  12. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    He is due now infact he is a bit late
     
  13. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    WOW he is bouncing 184
     
  14. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    You can put additional data in the test cells on the spreadsheet, e .g. If you take a test at +2.5 put @ +2.5 48 and then color the cell the appropriate color by clicking on the drop down arrow next to the icon on the top tool bar that looks like a little paint tin being poured. You can put more than one number in a cell on the spreadsheet too e.g if you took a +3 and a +3.5 they would go in the same cell and you then manually color the cell using the paint tin icon.
     
  15. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    will do so now
     
  16. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    how long was that between the last lot of honey and this test?
     
  17. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    OK - sorry to go missing for a few minutes there...Michael reminded me we'd forgotten to give our CKD girl her fluids! :oops:

    The good thing is that your old meter is reading close to the new one so you can use the numbers from that as a good guide until you can get more strips for the ReliOn. :)

    Bouncing is OK if he really is, though you might need to check him again yet to make sure it wasn't just the honey.
     
  18. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    rough guess about 40 min since last honey does
     
  19. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Your good april I cant expect the world to stop for Magellan mister sensitivity
     
  20. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    We usually get her fluids done much, much earlier - I just blanked on it needing doing today as it's twice a week not every day! Hopefully Magellan's going to stay up a bit for you now - sometimes a bounce can be a good thing!
     
  21. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    I'm with April I think we'd better test some more before declaring a bounce but I'm hoping that's what it is! Spreadsheet is becoming clearer to me now :) I think still test again in half an hour since he hasn't been holding the raises and if he's holding or significantly higher there will probably be just one more test after that for tonight.

    You're doing a great job. I'll tell you how to perfect the spreadsheet later if you like but for now it does provide a clear picture of what's happening - thank you
     
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  22. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks..I understand how important clear info is and being OC in this case is a good thing
     
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  23. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    DO NOT GIVE INSULIN TOMMOROW UNTIL YOU SPEAK TO YOUR VET.

    I like the idea of changing to lantus but I think a very low starting dose will be called for to be safe, maybe .5 units. Hopefully your vet has experience with lantus but there's also a whole sub board of us in the lantus/levemir insulin support group forum. Even if your vet does have some experience I doubt he'd know as much about lantus as the people there ;)
     
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  24. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    I am beginning to feel like a yo yo he tested 102
     
  25. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Oh no I had no plans to do so giving more insulin
     
  26. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    OK, let's see where he is in another 30 minutes - hopefully he won't just keep dropping this time around.
     
  27. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    He already told me that he is not familiar with lantus, but on the + side he said he would look into the message board here
     
  28. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    As long as he's prepared to learn, that's what really matters. I'm sure he'll get to be familiar with the way Lantus works soon enough - with your help. :)
     
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  29. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Direct him to the lantus/levemir insulin support group forum. The stickies (posts stuck to the top) of that forum will teach him all about lantus.

    My vet hadn't used lantus before I insisted on it for Vyktor either, it's good for them to add new (and better) options to their selections, the best vets are the ones that keep learning and don't assume they can't learn anything from their clients :)
     
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  30. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like him Dr Sonny Randhawa is his mane and he is at companion clinics. I love watching the OTJ party shows keeps my spirits up, will direct doc to the info at first I think he will just want to read it all over if you understand?
     
  31. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    rips my hear out Magellan tested 72
     
  32. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Come on Magellan - you can do better than this! Another 30 minutes please...and paws crossed he'll be past nadir and coming back up by then!
     
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  33. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    @Vyktors Mum - will you be able to watch the next couple of tests please? It's heading for 4am here (for Julia too of course, but I really don't want to leave her on her own and I'm starting to fall asleep).
     
  34. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    So no bounce yet...

    You can give him a couple of tsps of LC to try and help get him surfing

    How are you going? Not too tired?
     
  35. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it's still early here, nigh nigh April.
     
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  36. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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  37. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Other than a splitting headache I am fine but Magellan is ready to gut me!
     
  38. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    hugs and kisses April sleep with the angels and thanks for your help
     
  39. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Sorry LC = regular low carb wet food.

    Poor kitty, baptism by fire for him! Are you giving treats after each test?
     
  40. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks for the reminder getting brain fry here and yes he is being bribed before and after each test that is how I catch him.
     
  41. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    2 night in a row with weird low sugars, ever see a cat quite like magellan? I mean start high and just drop like a lead blivit?
     
  42. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Ok finished another test and it is 91
     
  43. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    I have not used Novalin but I've heard it's very harsh. Vyktor started on canninsulin/vetsulin which is also pretty harsh and lacks duration - not good!

    It occurs to me you wouldn't know what surfing means either - that means sailing along at pretty much the same level.

    If you have any lavender oil it's great for headaches if you massage it in to your temples. Also have some water or something in case it's dehydration - we sometimes forget to look after ourselves when there's low numbers going on
     
  44. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Aha - surfing :D you can give a couple more tspns of low carb and wait 45 mins to test again. Hopefully he'll hold it now
     
  45. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Yes I do have lavender oil and I love it as it really works on stress and I have been drinking water on and off all night as it is very warm here temps are running about 70 degrees
     
  46. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Jim my Bf is talking taking me to a chiropractor the first of the month, that and a massage. I guess the meaning of surfing from content and thanks for making sure .
     
  47. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Hello got another test in the results are 84
     
  48. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    Still surfing with that 84 :D if he can hold it for another 45 mins you will be right to go to bed :) I wouldn't feed anymore right now. Fingers crossed.
     
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  49. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    The last syrup food was at +3 wasn't it?
     
  50. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    yes that is correct
     
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  51. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    I don't get it finished test and he is 145
     
  52. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    On the spreadsheet for tonight it would go like this (hopefully I've got all the times spot on adjust if necessary):

    I think you did get the 90 at 1 hour past PM shot time so the first cell (+1) is fine.
    In the second cell (+2) you would have - 48 @2.5 77 - if you put the spaces where I have them they should end up going down the cell instead of across. If they go down instead of across you don't need to widen the columns and the spreadsheet stays on a one page view. Color that cell the light green to indicate the lowest number in that hour.
    In the third cell (+3) you would have - 43 @3.5 184 - again color it in the light green to call attention to the low number
    In the +4 cell - 102 @4.5 72 - shaded in the darker green
    In the +5 cell - 91 @5.75 84 - because and I think we waited 3/4 of an hour for that one, i.e. .75 of an hour. Shaded the darker green.


    I wouldn't worry about it until after you've had a sleep etc. first though :) and on that 145 you may collapse into bed and congratulate yourself on being such a great carer (bean) :):):) great job tonight.
     
  53. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    The insulin is wearing off that's why he's gone up without food. He may also be headed into a bounce from going lower than he's used to but no matter how high he is in the morning don't shoot without speaking to your vet.
     
  54. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    :bighug: thanks so very much for your help with this and yess it is time to fall on my face going on 19 hrs since i last saw my bed.
     
  55. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Ohhhh no, no I wont shoot with out the vet talking to me at this point i am too damned scared to shoot. and lastly good night to all beans out there
     
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  56. Vyktors Mum

    Vyktors Mum Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome nigh night :cat:
     
  57. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I am so very glad you held off on the Lantus because I was worried the 1u dose might be too much. You all did a great job. I just have a couple comments I'd like to share.

    We've actually found that it doesn't take quite as long as we thought for dry to bring up numbers (although it doesn't work quite as fast as HC wet) and it is not a bad option if you don't have HC wet food or syrup. If you read JoJos Hypo Toolkit, she recommends having dry food on hand. It's smart if the kitty has been a dry food addict. The numbers might stay up a little longer but not as long as we used to think. So I probably would have tried dry last night so you could sleep.

    Your vet could also check into the VIN (veterinary information network, I believe) and discuss lantus nline with other vets and you could take him the info from the Lantus/Levemir forum.

    Lastly...I would be very careful about using oils. All essential oils and some non essential oils can be toxic to cats. They don't have to come in contact with it. They can absorb it through their skins just by even burning candles with essential oils and it can affect their livers. Unless you are able to find a high grade therapeutic oil, I'd avoid them. And for me I don't take any chances...I wouldn't even use the high grade therapeutics.
     
  58. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Awesome job managing those low numbers last night Julia. And many thanks for taking over for me Serryn @Vyktors Mum - I wasn't expecting it to get quite as late before Magellan started coming back up with him dropping low so early in the cycle! I'm so glad he managed to stay above 50 for you after he'd come back up the second time. :) Julia, you must be exhausted today after the last 2 nights but I agree with Serryn that giving any kind of insulin at this point without speaking to your vet first really wouldn't be a good idea.

    Thanks for the information on dry food Marje - extra options are always good to have for these sort of situations. :) And although I knew that some essential oils aren't good for cats, I didn't know that they can absorb them even from a candle burning - another reminder of just how sensitive our kitties systems really are!
     
  59. Cat Ma

    Cat Ma Well-Known Member

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    How are the #'s today, Julia Rae? You are a real trouper going through your 2nd hypo episode with Novolin. As you can see, it's a tough insulin to deal with. Wonderful that your vet has agreed to Lantus and is willing to learn about it. I wish all vets would do that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  60. Cat Ma

    Cat Ma Well-Known Member

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    The oils mentioned were mentioned by another member here to help Julia Rae with her headache during a hypo episode, not for the cat :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  61. billysmom (GA)

    billysmom (GA) Member

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    For headache try putting ice packs on your feet. I saw it mentioned on facebook as a remedy for migraine and darn if it doesn't work (or at least help). I'm not sure if helps with other types of headache but worth a try..
     
  62. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    I've never heard of that before and I'm definitely going to have to try it. I really try to avoid painkillers for headaches because I have days where I absolutely have to take them for a back problem and I don't like taking them too often (plus I find the more often I take them the less effective they seem to be). So I'm always on the lookout for anything that's easy to do and effective. :)
     
  63. billysmom (GA)

    billysmom (GA) Member

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    From what I understand, it redirects blood flow to your lower extremities. It didn't get rid of a bad migraine but has gotten rid of a couple in the early stages. I don't like to take my migraine meds because they tend to whipe me out.
     
  64. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    It does make sense, and I think it's definitely worth trying. I don't get migraines often, but I do tend to get tension headaches (probably linked to the back problem of course) which, although they don't stop me functioning, can be a real irritation when they last all day. I'll definitely give the ice packs a try and let you know whether or not they help.
     
  65. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Julia, you poor thing! I just read this whole thread and my heart was pounding!! I am a newbie and trying to absorb all that I can and I just pray to God that I never to through what you did or anyone else whose cat crashes. I am so glad that there was a happy ending for you. It the hypo crash a precursor to OTJ? I know someone else whose cat hypo crash and then went right into remission. Just wondering
     
  66. Cat Ma

    Cat Ma Well-Known Member

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    No, the hypo crash is not a precursor to OTJ. It did happen in my cat and she's one of the lucky ones still in remission but many cats aren't that fortunate to go OTJ after a hypo episode. A hypo crash isn't the end of the world and there's always members here to guide you if it happens. The glucometer notes on the Home Page is a very useful guide to have handy in a hypo episode. Be sure to have some high carb food (i.e. Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers), honey or karo syrup on hand for a hypo episode. I would have never known my cat was going hypo had I not learned how to home test for BG (blood glucose) levels. She wasn't showing symptoms. Home testing saves lives.

    Julia Rae is still trying to get her cat regulated. Hopefully she'll have better success with Lantus. It's more likely so than with Novolin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  67. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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  68. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I understand that. But essential oils diffuse into the air even if you just use them on your temples. And if the cat sleeps with you, the cat inhales it.
     
  69. Cat Ma

    Cat Ma Well-Known Member

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    Bobbie And Bubba, you don't need to convert the ReliOn numbers. I use the same monitor. The values/#'s for the ReliOn numbers are first. Just look at the first numbers (not the ones in parentheses) and that guides you into knowing if the cat is hypo, normal, or too high.

    As for crashing, yes, it can happen at any time and with any insulin. My understanding is that cats tend to take a harder hit with Novolin.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
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  70. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I don't ever see any numbers in parentheses I just tested myself and got a 94mg/dl no number in parentheses. I took the tester with me to the vet's office when they showed me how to test Bubba and we used the same blood sample for their's and mine and told me how to convert it to match thiers. Mine is the RieliOn Micro. Could mine be a newer model than yours?
     
  71. Cat Ma

    Cat Ma Well-Known Member

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    The numbers in parentheses pertain to the numbers in the glucometer notes in the link below. See the instructions at the top on the guide. It tells you which numbers are for the human meters (our ReliOns), Alph Trak (pet meter) and so forth. No, we have the same exact model. I just bought mine a a month ago. ReliOn Micro hasn't changed.

    There is no need to convert numbers. You can show your vet the guide if necessary:
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oI_34_EgqeKdpyttFW0oLoG1mbw16IkATAWHhoQD2JU/pub

    On the page, it says:
    - Human glucometer numbers are given first.

    - Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters.

    - Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak due to the 30% to 40% difference from human glucometers.

    You only need to be concerned with the human glucometer numbers that you get on your ReliOn meter.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
  72. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I am really confused because I do not see any numbers in parentheses on the screen, ie tonight's value on the screen was 180 mg/dl and I divided it by .85 to get 211. So if I am not seeing two sets of numbers you are saying that I use the single value on the screen? Oh is this confusing?
     
  73. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Ohhhh, the parentheses in the glucometer notes???? not my tester screen! Right? I feel so stupid.
     
  74. Cat Ma

    Cat Ma Well-Known Member

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    No worries! I've been where you were at and I am still learning! I am glad you found the notes!
     
  75. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    S
     
  76. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Glad I caught on! So, since I have been converting I will go back and put the values as they show on the screen so everything makes more sense in my timeline. Boy am I glad I read Julia Rae's thread!!! Thanks Cat Ma!
     
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  77. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Hello all if challenges make you stronger than I should be able to lift a mac truck today got up to do sugar check and check board and found out mother board has crashed, After many hours and much begging I am now using a friends laptop. Also finally got a hold of the vet late again (growl) and he is also confused about his numbers his advise is to let him ride tonight but keep testing and make sure his numbers dont go above 250 if they do give .25 unit and start lantus in the am as I now have the proper strips and my bf will be here tp help keep an eye on him and spot me.
     
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  78. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I was wondering how you were getting on today. It sounds as though you've had a rough day with your computer dying on top of everything else. I'm glad you got hold of your vet and, I agree, starting Lantus tomorrow morning is probably safest as Magellan seems to be very prone to dropping numbers at the moment. Hopefully he won't go too high tonight and you won't have to give him that 0.25U - based on the last couple of days, he really could go anywhere even on that amount though hopefully with a higher starting number he wouldn't drop quite as low as he has been.
     
  79. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    That is the current thought though the term brittle diabetic was mentioned, I cant find any info on it or what the term means any ideas?
     
  80. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    This is the definition for humans http://www.healthline.com/health/what-brittle-diabetes#Overview1

    I'm really not so sure that does apply to Magellan though - I think it's more likely that he's having a strong reaction to a very harsh insulin. I think it will be easier to tell once you get him started on Lantus, but that should help his numbers not to jump around so much.
     
  81. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Magellan isn't a brittle diabetic....he just bounces like every FD cat does. Some cats bounce a long time; some don't. It's the liver's reaction to numbers lower than it recognizes as normal.

    I'm glad your vet is on board with you starting Lantus tomorrow.
     
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  82. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Thank you both of you it is a load off of my mind just the term scares me, I am very excited about tomorrow. I also put in a request to join the face book group LLEF.
     
  83. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    When I was in my teens, I had a friend who was a brittle diabetic so I do know how it works for people...and the numbers I've seen from Magellan don't look anything like what I'd expect to see if he was. I agree with Marje - he's dropping low from the insulin and bouncing, which is a different thing entirely - and is actually normal while cats are getting regulated. :)
     
  84. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you told us this. I'll confirm you there :)
     
  85. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks the only real info I have on diabetes is from my bf and he is not the best at controlling his sugars.
     
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