? Low sugar

I have switched my Cat to young again cat food 0 carb. His glucose this morning was 381 I gave him 4 units of prozinc tonight his sugar was 51! Should I stop giving him the low carb food or should I mix with high carb food so it doesn't drop anymore?

 

@Marje and Gracie @Sue and Oliver (GA)

 

Which meter are you using to measure blood glucose? Please can you reply ASAP.

 

How long has it been since you shot?..and are you using a human meter or pet meter?

 

@Chris & China - are you OK to sit with Tamra? I'm feeling really sick and can't stay.

 

As long as my internet stays on....It just came back about 5 minutes ago

I'll watch her and see if I can find someone else to backup

 

@Tricia & Cinco & Harvey ....just in case I lose my internet (again), can you keep an eye out for Tamra?

 

Thanks, Chris. I feel really bad that I can't stay to help.

 

What's the +1 +2 etc at the top did u test right before shot and then determined insulin amoung

 

No worries Mogs.....you take care of yourself and Saoirse!!

 

A human meter

 

@Tamra ....what time did you shoot the 4 units and how long has it been since then?

Since you don't have a spreadsheet, we need to know to be able to help you (and it's important that you start our spreadsheet but we'll work on that later)

 

Human shot was 8am

 

Or are you waiting to see if you should shoot tonight at all since he's only at 51?

If you haven't shot since this morning, don't shoot now!! Test again when it's been about 30 minutes from getting the 51

 

His sugar is 64 now

 

We didn't give a shot tonight. The vet said to do 4 units because it was high when they tested last week. Can I fluctuate his dose of insulin based on his Preshot result?

 

OK....so he hasn't had a shot since 8am this morning....that's good. Whatever you do, don't give him any insulin right now. He's safe for now. I'd test again in 30 minutes to make sure he stays up above 50

When was the last time he had anything to eat? Is he on canned food at all or are you free feeding the Young Again only?

 

Young again only but we gave some canned food and high carb just now to raise his sugar

 

That's the problem with basing dosing decisions on tests done at the vets....there's no way to know how much of that is "stress-influenced" and it makes a big difference

Also, you need to know how low the dose is taking him....and a vet can't find that by doing just one curve over a 12 hour period.

While you're waiting to test again, would you please start our spreadsheet? Here are the Instructions on getting the FDMB spreadsheet . It really is a valuable tool here and if you need advice in a hurry, we really need to see how things have been going at home (if you can't get it, let us know....You have to have a Google account, but it's easy after that)

 

Yes what's the numbers across the top for? How much insulin would u give if he is at 381

 

No insulin tonight. No insulin if the pre-shot test (without feeding) is under 200 mg/dL,

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning, pre-shot, test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening, pre-shot, test)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

The nadir is the lowest glucose between shots. There is a general period when it will happen which is specific to the insulin being used and testing then helps make sure your cat doesn't go too low.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.

 

OK...the AMPS is the AM Pre-shot

U is how many units

Then the + cells start....they correspond with how many hours since the last shot, so if you tested and shot at 8am (AMPS) and got another test 3 hours later (at 11am), that test result would go in the +3 cell.....if you got a test 7 hours after the morning shot (at 3pm), that result would go in the +7 cell......all the way up to +11......then it's time for the PMPS (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over

 

So he was in the 50s tonight after 4 units this morning? Now he is at 64? We don't use times since we are all in different time zones. How many hours since the am shot -11 or 12 hours?

You definitely need to reduce the dose. Let's see if he starts climbing. I think it is doubtful that he will get into the 200 range tonight - high enough to shoot.

When did you last test?

 

Without knowing more about him, I couldn't say, but we do have a ProZinc "protocol"

Generally, we suggest starting at .5 to 1U and testing to see what kind of results you get before making dose changes

 

@Sue and Oliver (GA)

Best I can guess, she shot 4 units at AMPS (8am) and hasn't shot since....I'm assuming she posted at 8pm (but I don't know) and she hasn't shot yet tonight

I think the 51 was at 8pm and was her PMBG

 

Just before I sign off, I'd just like to highlight the diet change to Young Again. @Tamra, it will help people reading and replying to your thread to know when you started the food change because the reduction in carb load can reduce blood glucose levels by a significant amount - incredibly quickly, too. You may need to reduce the insulin dose. Great caution is needed when doing the food transition (as you've just discovered - thank goodness you are home testing! ).


Mogs
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@Tamra ...I'm going to leave you in the hands of @Sue and Oliver (GA) and @BJM ....they have much more experience with ProZinc than I do since we use Lantus

We just always respond to the 911's no matter what to get the emergency help going and find the experts later....although of course I'll be checking in on you too!

 

Tamara, where is her level now?

 

Thanks so much!!!

 

Hi Tamra, when did you switch to YA and what were you feeding before. If it was recent with those numbers it sounds like a reduction in insulin is in order. Obviously right now we want to make sure he is safe immediately but it sounds like the switch in food has been a positive for him I would defiantly not switch back over the long run so he can keep getting 4u of insulin you know what I mean. Assuming he stays safe overnight a call to your vet in the morning is defiantly in order to discuss how much to reduce. How much will depend on how you all came up with giving 4u and when the change in diet occurred.

Don't be surprised if he is higher than normal tomorrow morning, if being this low is new to him it might cause what we call a bounce, human diabetics have some sort of fancy named syndrome that vets sometime use we KISS and call it a bounce. In humans and to an extent in cats when their blood sugar gets too low they act like a drunk have you noticed any of that behavior today if so he likely did have an even lower reading earlier. Have you done a Glucose curve at home yet? (Testing every 2 hours) This way you can see how the insulin effects your sugar kitten. Personally I know that my boy Fern's numbers are still higher then I like before his shots I have to be really careful when increasing his dose because he drops quite a lot with the aide of Prozinc.

 

What is his current glucose level? If it is over 100, hold off on high carb food and give 1-2 teaspoons of regular low carb food. Re-test in 30 minutes.

Typically, ProZinc hits its lowest glucose level around +5 to +7 hours, then it starts rising. If the glucose continues dropping tp the pre-shot, that usually means the dose is too high. Once you've been able to collect both pre-shot and mid-cycle data for a good week or so, we'll know how to set up a sliding scale that can adjust the dose based on knowing how much he drops at various starting levels and doses.

You could find that his glucose is very high tomorrow morning; that would be what we call 'bouncing'. The body reacts to a sudden glucose drop and/or a drop to an unfamiliar glucose level (ex 200s after being constantly up in the 500s), and/or a drop to a hypoglycemic level (below 50 mg/dL on a human meter and below 68 mg/dL on a pet meter) this triggers hormones which release stored glucose (glycogen). The glucose level may stay elevated for up to 3 days or so.

 

He has been on 4 units in morn 3 at night he start young food few days ago

 

I will drop him down to one unit prozinc and chart his levels from there ?

 

He was on a cheap high carb dry food

 

Let's get your spreadsheet started so you'll have it for "next time"....there's always a "next time"!

If you need help, feel free to send me a private message and I can set it up for you. Just click on my name and choose "Start a conversation"

 

K I printed it off for mom Morris is her cat she doesn't have a computer I told her to give him just one unit in the morning as long as his level is above 200

 

Switching to low carb food may drop the glucose 100-200 mg/dL based on reports here. This can reduce the insulin needed quite a bit. Starting at 1 unit IF he is over 200 mg/dL on a human glucometer at tomorrow's pre-test, seems safe, however you should monitor during the day if possible.

 

Can your mom keep you up to date on his numbers so you can keep the spreadsheet updated? If you look under my comments, you'll see the link to China's spreadsheet there....that way if I need to ask for advice, anybody here can look at it and see what's been going on

It really can mean the difference between life and death when it comes to emergency situations.

 

Yes I can do that if his sugar is too low I can take a photo of the spreadsheet and post on here

 

Well you'll need to post it more than just in emergencies to get the best advice on what dose to use. I highly encourage you to download the spreadsheet and just enter the numbers maybe once a day so that after a few days on the 1 unit dose, you can get some advice on what would be the next move.

Good luck with getting Morris under the best control possible!! The people here are amazing and really know what they're talking about since they've been doing the sugardance for years and know what works....and what doesn't!!

 

Thanks! He is on one unit right now and his sugar this morning was 202

 

Pretty nice start!! Hope your mom can get a mid-cycle test today so we can see how low he goes on the 1U dose

 

What type of canned chicken is low carb

 

I feed Friskies chicken and liver pate. Also, could you take the 911 off the post? It scared me to no end when I saw it.

 

Oh sorry lol

 

That's ok How is he doing? And would you like help setting up the spreadsheet? I know it seems overwhelming, but the reason I believe it's good to have it set up is so members can "see" how your kitty's BG is doing throughout cycles. If it wasn't for my Spreadsheets and the ability for members to "see" what was happening with Woody! I honestly believe he would have died.

 

I printed it off and had her write it down everyday so far it has helped a lot changing his food his sugar has been between 150-250

 

How do you save your spreadsheet to your profile so people can see it

 

Bring up the spreadsheet in Google Drive.
In the upper right is an icon to sharel click that.
Select "Anyone with the link may view"
Copy the resulting link.
Go to your profile in FDMB
Follow the instructions below.

Editing your Signature

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by | or -.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as your name | cat's name | date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter general location (city and state/province) any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.

Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.

 

Look at the top right of the screen and click on your login name. You'll see a drop-down menu. Select Signature. Type in both your names, Dx date, type of meter and insulin, then paste in the spreadsheet link. Then save the changes.

Really glad to hear that Morris's BG numbers are getting better. I hope he's feeling much better for it, too.


Mogs
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Does poking them in the ear hurt?

 

No, not really....the edges of the ear have few pain receptors (how many "alley cats" have you seen with torn ears?) Most cats object mostly to the fact that you're touching their ears at all, but with a little conditioning, they come to accept it (and a lot of them learn that they're getting a special treat, so they start coming when the meter comes out!)

The keys are to establish one place that's a "testing spot" and then always giving a treat whether you get blood or not (or even if you're just playing with their ears)....it doesn't take most cats long to associate the "spot" with the treat and not care what's going on with their ears!