Miss Kitty

Im so excited to finally find a site that is dedicated to helping felines with diabetes. My cats name is Miss Kitty. She is around 9 yrs old. She is a long haired, black, domestic feline. She weighs 17 pounds. She has been on insulin for approximately the past two years. She takes 6 units twice a day. She also suffers from neuropathy. Thank you for accepting me Denise Kress, Massillon, Ohio

 

Welcome Denise and Miss Kitty!

Can you tell us a bit more? What kind of insulin? What kind of food does she eat? Do you hometest? We have a very successful protocol that incorporates a mild, long lasting insulin, wet low carb food and testing blood sugars at home. We'll be glad to tell you more.

 

Neuropathy may be relieved with good glucose control and methylcobalamin, a specific form of Vitamin B12. VitaCost has one which is reasonably priced.

 

i do not home test. soon to be doing it though. she takes prozinc. eats royal caan high fiber, gastrointestinal food... 1/3 of a cup twice a day. id be interested in learning all youre willing to provide

 

We have a very successful protocol for feline diabetes, Denise and would love to help you and Miss Kitty. Six years is a long time to be on insulin, but we might be able to get her in better numbers and on a lower dose of insulin.

1. We suggest a slow, long lasting insulin. ProZinc is mild and long lasting, so you have that covered.
2. Next we advocate a low carb, wet diet. We like to feed under 8-10% carbs. There are several food charts you can use: Dr. Lisa’s food chart
Hobo’s Food Chart Rhiannon’s 8% and under list Royal Canin is higher carb than we would recommend. Does she have issues that require high fiber? You might read this website by a vet. She explains why wet low carb is best: www.catinfo.org

BUT if you change foods, do not change until you are hometesting. With our Oliver, the switch meant an overnight change of 100 points downward. If we hadn’t been testing and had given our usual amount., he could have hypoed.

2. So last but most importantly, hometesting. We think cats tend to be stressed at the vet and we know stress raises blood glucose levels. So we test our cats at home. You want to know what the number is before you give the shot to be sure the amount you are planning to give is safe. And testing midcycle will show you how the insulin is working. We use human glucometers and test on their ears or paws. Here is a video that shows you how it is done: Video for hometesting

I hope you do some more reading and research and ask lots of questions. If you would like, we have taught hundreds of people how to test and would be glad to teach you.

 

Once you are home testing, you will want to know what the numbers mean, so here you go!

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

= 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot limit for ProZinc, PZI, or other non-depot insulins

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.

 

Gosh Im so thrilled of all the helpful informaton youve provided! Now my pretty girl will be on the right track! confused_cat ...doctor just switched miss kitties food due to constipation. she is currently taking stool softeners as well. Cant wait to start home testing!

 

Glad you seem to now know what you need to do.
Could you please edit the above post to remove the candle. A candle means that a cat has has passed.

 

what food is she on now? I am hoping a nice low carb canned?

 

finally received supplies in mail ....sorry about the candle. i didnt know that.

 

great! heres some testing tips; https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

let us know how you get on!

 

gonna try the paw to test blood sugar tonight. will let ya know how that goes. in the meantime im gonna try and get a photo of miss kitty on here for you guys to see. and again i cant stress enough how much i appreciate your advice, info, and kind words regarding miss kitty. she is my pride and joy since ive lost my mom. denise, massillon ohio

 

food she is now is the hard royal canan, gastrointestinal, with high fiber. she has had some constipation, so dr changed her food. should i also be feeding her perhaps the md wet food as well? even since we are trying to get her weight down a little too?

 

Have you checked out this website? The author is a vet who has thoroughly studied nutrition in diabetic cats and catsnwith urinary issues. She has great suggestions for food.

Www.catinfo.org

How did the testing go? Can we help?

 

ugh.....still havin some trouble testing miss kitties sugar. tried the ear and paw pad. so far i havent been able to to get any blood to come out. i havent been on lately due to being sick. bronchitis, sinus infection. im gonna keep trying to test. soon as i get a reading i will post.

 

Is it that you are not getting a good drop? Are you warming the ear for a minute or so? It needs to be very warm at first. What size lancet? 25-27 gauge work best in the beginning. Do you have something to poke against? Lots of people use a folded kleenix; I liked a small makeup sponge. If you are getting a good poke but not enough blood, sometimes a quick second poke in the same spot works.

Often it is also that you are afraid of hurting her and are too tentative. A quick, fast firm poke gets it done and finished fast. If she ever moves away, get the drop on your fingernail and test from there.

Keep trying, with a treat for cat and bean, regardless of how it goes. It takes awhile to get the routine and method that will work for the two of you, but you'll get it.

 

Denise, would you be OK if DCIN could find someone to come over and give a hand's on demonstration of hometesting?

 

heck yeah! id love it if someone would come over for the testing. i was actually thinkin of takin her to the vet and see if he knows of a good way. miss kitty has been having some diarrhea the last two days. not sure if its this food the dr. switched her too or if shes actually got a cold or type of flu. shes not eatin too good today. she threw up white spit, and again this morning has loose stool.

 

I put a call out on our Facebook page. I will let you know if I find someone.

You might want to create a new post here on the Health forum to see whether there is someone near you who might come give a demonstration.

 

alrighty thanks venita

 

I'm in Columbus, OH and would be available to come up to Massilon on Sunday, mid-day, if that would work for you.

 

that would be great! however that is a little ways to go. denise

 

and i have my families xmas party on sunday

 

Its about 2 1/2 hours one way. I do that driving rescue transports.

Weekend after Christmas ?

Also, see my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools. Many of those are helpful in monitoring status, although not as precise as blood glucose testing. Focus on urine ketone testing (ketones = not enough insulin, plus often an infection and not eating), thirst and urination, and appetite. The last 3 monitor cardinal signs of diabetes.

 

weekend after xmas would be fine and dandy i will use the urine strips in the meantime. right now i think her readings should be good, since weve just been to the vet and got her glucose tested... gosh i do appreciate your help!..so does Miss Kitty!

 

Click on the person icon under my name to send me a private message with your address and phone number. Lets aim for Sunday, as most of my rescue transports happen on Saturday.

 

BJ, I believe that DCIN's transport manager Claudia is in touch with Denise and has volunteered to give a home testing demo on Christmas Eve morning. Claudia is less than an hour away. Hopefully we can avoid you having an extra-long trip for something that already will have been done.

 

Thanks to Claudia, I can now test my babies glucose! Gave Miss Kitty some Friskies Pate tonight for her Xmas Eve dinner! She gobbled it up! She is now on mommies bed sleeping with a full belly. Her bg was 116 this morning. Getting ready to test again in about an hour or so. Denise

 

Welcome to the Vampire Club!

(Er ... I have a friend who lives up near there and was going to visit, too.)

 

Just did bg test. miss kitties sugar is 156....should i proceed with the 3.5 units of prozinc insulin?.........denise

 

Whoa!

I would be concerned with that dose given the food change and that you fed her within the last 2 hours.

How about half of that? And check glucose again in about 2-3 hours.

I'm concerned about hypoglycemia. Here are instructions on managing it. low glucose levels.

On the timing of some things:
We like to test, feed, and shoot within about 15 minutes worth of time.
When possible, we like to pick up the food 2 hours before test time.

 

Welcome to the vampire club!!

I agree with BJ that 3.5U ProZinc on a preshot of 156 isn't appropriate. I would likely have been more conservative than BJ and recommended no shot until Miss Kitty was over 180 or 200, because that is the "shoot/no shoot" line we give those who are new to the sugar dance.

Now it's time for you to get a spreadsheet started, Denise, and linked into your signature.

I believe these are the current directions. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 Someone will correct me if I am wrong.

 

bg reading tonight for miss kitty- 258- at 9:05pm. gave 4 units prozinc

 

You are giving a lot of insulin at low numbers. We generally tell new diabetics not to shoot at all under 200. If she were mine, I'd keep a close watch on her tonight.

 

Please check her about 5 hours after you gave the shot. That is when the numbers are likely to be heading the lowest.

Have you printed out the link I gave previously on low numbers and made sure you have the necessary supplies? If Miss Kitty's glucose goes too low, ie she has a hypoglycemic episode, she could die

 

tested miss kitties sugar this morning at 6am- 112- no insulin given

 

yes and i do have all the necessary supplies, just having trouble with the spreadsheet publishing it to web

 

Try going over to the right hand side of your original and make sure Share to Anyone with the Link is chosen. Then go to the left hand side, choose Publish,start publishing and copy the url that comes up in that box. Paste it in your signaure, highlight it and choose the URL button at the top of the box. Then choose submit. M

See if that works.

So glad you didn't give insulin this am. I definitely would not shoot under 200.

 

That's likely because the preceeding dose was too high! Please drop the dose back down so you get a shootable number both morning and night. While you can adjust the dose using pre-shot numbers, you do not have much data collected on how it is affecting you cat. You want her to be safe and too much insulin can kill her. You are changing the diet and that alone may drop the glucose levels 100 mg/dL within 1-2 days or less.

The objective is to get no lower than 50 mg/dL at nadir. Nadir is usually about 5 1/2 hours after the shot, give or take a half hour.

Note: skipping a shot will result in an elevated glucose at next shot time. This is normal. Better too high for a day than too low for a moment. Grit your teeth, be patient, and do not increase.

 

thanks a bunch! will proceed with your instructions...miss kitty

 

Just tested miss kitties sugar.....300......gave 2 units of prozinc.....denise

 

Not bad for skipping a shot.

That's about where Gracie starts her day!

 

miss kitties sugar this morning at 6:30am- 308- gave 3.0 units of prozinc

 

I am a little concerned with your dosing. You need to get some midcycle numbers to see what is happening. If She is at 300 at preshot and she stays flat through the cycle, you might increase, but by .25 or .5. Not by a whole unit at a time. If she is at 300 at preshot and dips low at midcycle, then she may be bouncing and you might hold the dose a few cycles. If she is under 50 at midcycle, you definitely want to reduce the dose.

I hope you can get some tests in during the middle of the cycle.

We increase slowly so we don't go over a good dose and instead set up a cycle of bouncing.

 

just tested miss kitty....232- please advise on amount of insulin

 

How many hours after this morning's shot?

 

11.5 hours after morning shot for miss kitty

 

Unfortunately we are just guessing since we have no midcycle numbers yet and have no idea where the insulin really took her. I would assume it took her lower than 200 as she is in that range at Pmps.

Is she still eating dry? Any wet at all? I am thinking the dry is keeping her safe (high) even though 3 units is normally too much for a 200 range preshot. For instance, when we switched Oliver from dry to wet, his numbers plunged overnight 100 points. Switching would make a nice change downward in her numbers and require less insulin. (it's like a human diabetic taking higher doses of insulin to compensate for eating donuts at every meal......)

I am trying to be conservative in my advice as I don't really know what the insulin is doing. If you are still feeding only dry, I guess 2 units.

Please work on getting some numbers midcycle so we can give you better advice.

 

she is eating 1/3 cup of high fiber/gastrointestinal royal cannin (hard food), and two tablespoons of canned friskies (wet food).........how many times a day should i be testing? denise/ miss kitty

 

At least at preshot times and in that 5-7 hour after the shot is very helpful.

 

Did you try to publish (share) Miss Kitty's spreadsheet yet? It sure would be helpful to see all of her test numbers/doses/etc. at a glance. If you need more help....please post your question. :smile:

 

just tested miss kitties sugar......217- 12/28/13- gonna give two units. 9 hours after first shot.

 

Please keep an eye on Miss Kitty and test/post her numbers as soon as you get this post. Feeling that 2 units in the 200 range at only 9 hours after AM shot might be a little much.

Any luck on getting her spreadsheet to "share"? We need to see her numbers on it to help you keep Miss Kitty safe with good doses.

 

im having trouble with the spreadsheet......cant get it to publish to web.......miss kitties sugar this morning was 219-- 3.0 units given. will check again approximately at 1pm.

 

Please see your private message at the top of the page. I can help with the spreadsheet. We could also talk on the phone about how the site works.


3 units could be too much insulin for a 219 preshot. We suggest you don't dose when the number is 200 or lower and 219 is very close to that. Please get a number in 2 hours and post. It is possible she will be dropping low today and you will need to interevene with food.

I understand you have trouble negotiating the site and reading your posts, but we have been warning you that you are giving her too much insulin. You need to reduce the amount, not increase,

 

While you're working on the spreadsheet, please list daily glucose tests like this:

AMPS test value - morning (AM) pre-shot test; units of insulin given

+2 test value - any test taken 2 hours after the shot, if done

+5 test value - any test taken 5 hours after the shot, if done

+7 test value - any test taken 7 hours after the shot, if done

PMPS test value - evening (PM) pre-shot test ; units of insulin given

 

just tested miss kitty....sugar is 101- no insulin given- 8hrs after first reading

 

Using the format I explained above:
AMPS ~ 218; 3 units
+8 ~ 101

Its too soon for another shot.
Insulin is usually given every 12 hours, or as close to it as possible, unless you are shooting a special schedule.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

 

There it is! The spreadsheet is up. Now you need to get it into your signature so it comes up automatically updated, each time you post.

Go over to the Left hand side of your spreadsheet. Choose File, then Publish to the Web. In the next box, choose Start Publishing and check Automatic Republish. The url that comes up in the box below is the one you put in your signature. So highlight it and copy it. Then go back to the message board and go to User Control Panel and Profile. Choose Edit Signature. Add the url you have copied to the box and choose Submit. Now it will show up each time you post.

Re your numbers. You want to dose twice daily, 12 hours apart. So the first necessary part is to test every morning before the shot and every evening before the shot. Here is the protocol for ProZinc. It explains how to deal with the numbers.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=109077

Miss Kitty is getting good numbers especially as you have only been shooting once daily, but it looks like the dose is way too high as it is lasting close to 24 hours. How about doing a restart? Test every am and pm and if she is over 200, shoot one unit. Get some midcycle numbers. See if you get a shootable number in the evening and if her numbers stabilize a little.

 

Just observing. It appears that Miss Kitty may be getting shots twice/day, but because of multiple line entries, it appears to us that it is shots once/day.

Miss Kitty's Mom, all the entries for one day stay on the same line. The numbers on the left side of the page are for the morning cycle and the numbers on the right are for the evening cycle.

Please ask the questions you have. Please respond to people's advice, especially if you have questions about it.

 

Thanks, Venita. I did miss that, but my suggestion is still the same. I would do a restart at one unit, test before each shot and midcycle and increase by .25 IF you get higher numbers.

 

thanks for the info, i was wondering about that

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub ... utput=html

 

So was she at 215 this am and you gave two units? If so, put the 215 under the amps cell on the left hand side. Then any numbers you get go in the +3, +6 cells along that same line (+3 is the number 3 hours after the shot.) Tonight your number goes under the pmps on the right hand side with the units given under the U box.

Two units is a pretty high dose for 215, which is very close to our 200 threshold for new diabetes not to shoot. I am very worried that she is going down low during the day with that much insulin. Can you get a number 5-7 hours after the shot to see?

What did you think about doing a restart at one unit?

Your first url worked. The second one doesn't. Get rid of the s.

 

will do another reading about three pm, and hopefully i will get this spreadsheet right for miss kitty!..lol

 

I took some time and (RE)created Miss Kitty's spreadsheet the way it should be done. Here is the link so you can see how to enter the data. You can't edit the one in this link...it is just for you to view and learn. Also, your set-up was confusing to those of us here when we were trying to help you.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak6sDnbZca-jdFBxellxZDg0NDloRDFjT2pmcEJOTkE#gid=0

I hope seeing your data in this format will help you understand why we are all concerned about the high doses at low numbers you are shooting. Please set your own copy to be like the one here and post any questions you may have. :smile:

Hope this helps. :smile:

VERY IMPORTANT>>>>Please try to get some mid-cycle tests over the next few days and post them so we can see how the insulin is really working.

 

8hrs after first reading this morning........3pm- 69...........this morning it was 268 and gave 3.0 units..........will retest in about four hours

 

PLEASE consider lowering the dose. If she was 69 8 hours after the shot, she could have been in hypo territory earlier than that. I am worried your kitty will have a hypo at these high doses.

 

I agree a zillion percent!! Are you able to read our posts .... are they not showing up or something?

 

thank you will test again at 8pm eastern time. probably will give no insulin as of this point.

 

We aren't saying to give no insulin. We are suggesting that if he is over 200 -250 that you give one unit. Keep that dose a few cycles and see what his midcycle numbers look like. If he is higher than you want, then increase by .25 units and watch for a few more cycles.

 

Too much insulin can kill your cat. No 'ifs', no 'ands', no 'buts'. Treat it cautiously and with respect.

With ProZinc, the nadir may be in the +5 to +6 time frame. That is when you're likely to see how low she goes. You want it no lower than 50 mg/dL at the nadir.

Any lower than that, and you should intervene using 1-2 teaspoons of high carb food, wait 30 minutes, retest and if still low, repeat every 30 minutes until rising and closer to 100 mg/dL.

 

miss kittys sugar tonight is 200.....will give 1.0 units of prozinc?

 

I think that should be okay. So glad you are lowering the dose!

 

thank you soo much! since im new at this, i only want whats best for my pretty girls...will proceed with one unit of prozinc

 

Since your are lowering the dose, PLEASE update your spreadsheet so we can see how it is working. :smile:

 

sorry ive been unable to get online. my modem went out. just now got a new modem. will post spreadsheet update for miss kitty

 

How is Miss Kitty doing today?

Hope your computer is working now so you can update her spreadsheet. :smile:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ApHPOLa8QIaodFZ0MTRKVlVlNkFBNGVBZ2tmd1FjcGc&output=html

 

miss kittys updated spreadsheet...

 

miss kittys updated spreadsheet...

 

I'm confused. The one in your signature is the one with the latest date, but it is 1/4?

 

How is Miss Kitty doing? Haven't see any posts lately. :YMSIGH:

 

my computer has been acting up, i do have all the readings, that im having trouble attaching for some reason. will keep trying.....last night miss kittys sugar was 276 at 9:44pm, gave 2 units.

 

Hi Denise,

I sent you a copy of the spreadsheet with the numbers all in one line for each day, the way we generally do it. It makes it so much easier to read. Also sent you a private message about it. See "1 new message" above.

 

lets see if the spreadsheet posts....miss kitties sugar this morning was 119...2.0 units of prozinc given and will test in two hours

 

Wow. The doses you are giving are really scary. We urge new diabetics not to shoot under 200. She is half that and you shot two units. Please get a number in 2 hours and see where she is.

Your spreadsheet is only through the first week of January. Did you get the spreadsheet I sent to your email?

 

W H O A ! ! !

I hope your cat is OK.

If you see signs of disorientation, pacing, yowling, etc, immediately feed 1-2 teaspoons of HIGH carb gravy or a few drops of Karo or other syrup and then test the glucose.
If your cat is unconscious, rub the Karo on the gums and have someone drive you to the veterinary ER. Hypoglycemia can kill.

We suggest new insulin users be cautious with shooting low numbers due to the risk of hypoglycemia.
Another thing that can happen is the unaccustomed low from the insulin may cause a bounce - a release of compensatory hormones which elevate glucose.

 

Wow...I'm with BJ and Sue. 2 units at that number can be really dangerous. Please please watch your kitty and test in 2 hours . If you aren't sure what doses to give, we'd be happy to help if you post numbers. A lot of us post daily on the PZI board and help each other with dosing suggestions.

 

I agree with the previous three posters.

 

How is Miss Kitty??????? nailbite_smile

Please update your spreadsheet and post Miss Kitty's daily info every day. We are here to help.

Are you posting on the FD Facebook page???? Please post here in FDMB.

WE ARE VERY WORRIED ABOUT HER. nailbite_smile

 

miss kitty is doing well. i havent posted her spreadsheet lately however im still keeping track of her glucose readings. ive had some pc problems, and a lot going on. here are her readings to date....

 

Your ss still only shows data until 1-4-14. Is there another one that is not linked to your signature?

 

this spreadsheet isnt working again i cant get it to post

 

can i email it to ya?

 

Please do. I sent you a PM.

 

I have one all ready to goand can put it in your spreadsheet. Just send me a privates message with your password to the forum. I will sign in as you and attach it.

 

im sorry i had to reformat my pc...whats your email again?..........thanks denise.....and misskitty