Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by dedodude, Nov 25, 2013.
I'll send you a pm. See above. " 1 new message"
just checking to see if this posts with miss kittys updated readings....denise
Yes, it worked fine!
Tell me a little more about your testing, though. Do you usually test at +11 and then shoot an hour later? Is that something your schedule requires? I am thinking it makes it difficult to interpret your ss, as we usually see the preshot number right next to the preshot dose. I put the numbers in where they were on your sheet, but am wondering how often you shoot , for example, 2 hours past +12. Just looking at yesterday, was the am pre shot 281 (+11 the cycle before)? and then the pm pre shot was11 hours later (188) This morning at +11 she was 201 and you shot 2 units and then at +11 she was 326? I was wondering if we can fudge and just put the +11 number in the pre shot space at amps and go from there. It is not ideal to wait an hour after the test to shoot, if that is what you are doing.
You were shooting at very low numbers earlier this month. We suggest new diabetics not shoot under 180 at the lowest until they have more data, then usually not under 150 at all.
The important number that you can get going forward is a number between 5-7 hours after the shot. That will show us the lowest point in the cycle and then we'll know how the insulin is working and whether your next pre shot is a bounce.
I am leaving for awhile, but will check back in tonight and see if there is a way to make this ss more user friendly for us to decipher.
youre a gem! actually i test her sugar.....get the reading.....then give her shot. i wasnt aware i was suppose to wait after the reading? miss kitty
FOR AM & PM SHOTS:
Be sure Miss Kitty has not had food for 2 hours before so test results are not influenced by food.
You should test---put down food---shoot WITHIN 15 MINUTES. AS LONG AS NUMBER IS MORE THAN 200
If NUMBER IS LESS THAN 200 after test ----- Do NOT feed---WAIT 20 Minutes---RETEST. If Number is RISING and OVER 200...Okay to shoot BUT slightly LOWER dose.
PLEASE try to get some tests in at +5 to +7 and POST THEM on your ss. For these tests, the 2-hour no-food window does not matter. It is IMPORTANT to have those numbers (nadir) to see how the insulin dose is working. We need that info so we can help you help Miss Kitty.
I hope Sue can help you straighten out your ss so it makes more sense to us. It looks like you are shooting too much insulin at very low numbers. We,and I am sure that you, don't want Miss Kitty to have a hypo episode. Believe me...it is not fun and Miss Kitty could die.
Glad your computer is back up...now you can post daily. :smile:
Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:
Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.
From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)
Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
and so on.
Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.
There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.
We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.
It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.
So let's see if we can make this ss look better, Denise. Are you testing, then feeding and shooting? If so, we could switch those numbers we have at +11 to the first cell next to the date (amps)so they will make it easier to decipher.
Can you explain about the times you have numbers at +10 and 11 during the day? Do you take a test then and shoot later or shoot when you take the test?
The best practice is to get a number in the morning, feed her and give her the shot. Then 12 hours later, test again, feed and shoot. (it is a bonus if you can get some numbers in the middle of the cycle and feed her a little then too.)
Maybe it would help if you could give us an idea of how you do this, from first thing in the am?
alrighty lets see what happens
Denise, we're still not able to figure out when you are testing, and when you are shooting
For today, 2/13/14...in the next box (AMPS) you would put the test result you got this morning, before you fed Miss Kitty or gave any insulin.
You always test first...then feed and shoot...all within about 10 minutes for Pre-shot tests
If you look at China's Spreadsheet (link below), you can see that this morning, at AMPS time, her blood glucose was 194. That's where your morning test result should be.
It looks like you gave 2 units of ProZinc this morning, but what was her blood glucose IMMEDIATELY before you gave the shot? Are you testing IMMEDIATELY BEFORE giving any insulin? If not, you need to be!!
You should be getting tests IMMEDIATELY BEFORE shooting, once in the morning, and once in the afternoon/evening...12 hours from your first shot. It's THAT number that determines how much insulin to give, as well as tests you get DURING the cycle.
It looks like you are still NOT testing during each cycle. It's VERY important that you do those tests! We need for you to test Miss Kitty sometime between 5 and 7 hours after EACH shot.
Here is an example in real life terms that may help. (I will use 8am/8pm as shot times for this example)
1. At 8am, you TEST, feed, and give a shot.
2. Sometime between 1pm and 3pm, you get ANOTHER test (it doesn't matter if you feed or not for this one).
3. At 8pm, you TEST, feed and give a shot.
4. Sometime between 1am and 3am, you get ANOTHER test. (If you don't want to get up sometime between 1-3am, get a test in BEFORE BED.
I hope this helps you understand what we want you to do on your spreadsheet, as well as how to keep Miss Kitty SAFE! We would not want you to give too much insulin and end up accidentally KILLING Miss Kitty!
I know there is still some confusion on the SS. I am also concerned that Miss Kitty's numbers are significantly increasing. Any thoughts on why that might be?
I helped Denise set up her spreadsheet and am happy to make corrections if we can figure out exactly when she is testing and when she is shooting.
It is so hard to tell without a few nadirs. We need to know exactly what Denise does re the shot. Does she test at +11 and then wait an hour to shoot? Or is the +11 right the preshot number? And we need to know if the number she is getting at +10/11 is the number she is using for a pre shot number.
I am concerned with the increase in numbers. She was shooting at some very low numbers early last month. I don't know whether we are looking at long term bouncing (or if there is such a thing) of whether her nadirs are just low and that is causing the higher pre shots.
If she could answer the questions re your shooting schedule and then get some nadirs, we would have a much clearer picture of what is happening and what might help.
It will help us figure out what you are doing if you list 1 day's tests and shots in a post that can be matched to your spreeadsheet.
Am pre-shot ### @ what time?
Shot # units @ what time?
Mid-cycle test of ### @ what time?
forgot to enter her dosage this morning so here it is updated.......and miss kitty has dandruff....any suggestions on getting rid of it?
Denise, please check your private messages.
As you get better glucose control, the dandruff may go away.
You can help by using a boar bristle brush and gently brushing daily. The bristles help distribute the oils in addition to brushing out the flakes. Wash the brush frequently.
should i shoot tonight at 156?.........im afraid if i dont her sugar will be sky high in the morning?.........denise
It's on your ss as +10. Is it? Can you wait and test again in 2 hours? That would be better than shooting early and you'd probably have a shootable preshot.
i check miss kitties sugar in the morning, then i feed her, then i give her a shot. ....same in the evening
Good, that's the way to do it. Today, is your number tonight 10 hours from the am shot? It is in the 10 slot on the ss.
that is correct....10 hrs
Then I would wait till 12 hours after the last shot, test and see if she is above 200 so you can give her a shot.
Why are you testing and shooting at +10? It looks like you have done that before. It's best to shoot every 12 hours.
ok its been 2hrs since last test.....reading is 151....
So she didn't have insulin at +10 and now it's +12 and she is still in the 150 range? I wouldn't give a shot until the number rises a bit. Will it mess up your schedule to wait? When does she need to eat? (food will give the number a false higher reading)
I went back and changed all the +11 numbers to the am pre shot so your ss will be easier to us to decipher. It is confusing. It looks like you often shoot early and you give the same dose regardless of the numbers. I think it would help Miss Kitty if the cycle can be the full 12 hours long. Anytime you shoot early it is equal to an increase so she is getting more insulin than you think if the other cycle's insulin isn't finished yet.
The other thing you might do is use a sliding scale. So if she is in the 300+s, shoot 1.5 units. If she is in the 200+s, shoot 1 unit. If under 200, wait 20 minutes without feeding to make sure she is rising and over 200 and then shoot a tiny bit less than one unit. If she is under 150, I would not shoot at all until she rises above 200 and then I'd lower the dose to .5
What I am afraid is happening is that she is dropping low on several cycles and is constantly bouncing from high numbers to low numbers (When her body senses a dangerously low number or even one that is lower than she is used to, it releases extra sugars and she bounces up to a higher number.) If you can get some numbers in that 5- 7 hour after the shot, that would show you how low the dose is really taking her.
Does this make sense? Can you try to get some midcycle numbers?
will try for some mid cycle numbers.......
I am confused with the numbers over in the Remarks space on yesterday's cycle. So she got a shot at around 11:30am Then did she get another shot at 4:55, 5 hours later? Or is the 4:55 time when you tested again? If it's just 5 hours after the am shot, then the number goes in the line after the amps number, in the +5 cell. Then did she get a shot later that day nearer +12 but you got no test in, so that's the time you gave 1 unit?
Not trying to be difficult, Denise, just trying to understand what is going on.
miss kitty went to vet this morning. her weight is down 1/2 pound from last visit. she is now at 15.9 lbs. she received a rabies shot, also received some rimadyl for back pain.
Can you explain the spreadsheet the past two cycles? How long after her pmshot was she at 268 - it looks like 11 hours? Then was she at 118 an hour later for amps?
It is really hard for us to help in any way unless we understand what the spreadsheet means. Normally, you test every morning. That is your amps. Then you shoot and put the units shot in the U column. Any numbers after that shot but before the pm shot go in the +3, +4 columns. Then at night, 12 hours after the am shot, you test again. That number goes in the pmps column and the units you give goes in the U column. Any numbers at night after that shot go in the columns to the right of the pmps in front of the remarks section.
ok hopefully i got the spreadsheet right now?
That does look better. Now, to get some tests in around 5-7 hours after the shot. Then we'll know how low the insulin takes her.
the 268 reading was 12 hours after the am shot
morning....heres miss kittys morning reading
Can you post on the PZI forum and get some advice there too?
Today would be a great day to get some midcycle numbers. I am wondering how low 2 units on a 200 takes her.
Can you get a mid-cycle test to see how low she is going during the day or during the night?
i can do a mid cycle test on tuesday. right now her sugar is 205...so im gonna shoot 2.00 units. this is 12 hours after first shot
This thread is getting really long, do you want to start a new one for today? Here or on pzi.. Up to you.
We can keep better track of you on PZI and you will have more people using your insulin who can help with dosing questions.
How about posting there this am with amps and midcycle numbers?
Denise, I see that you have now started posting on the PZI Forum at http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=114426. Good for you!
So as not to confuse people and to down on your effort, I suggest you no longer post on this thread. Just take all your postings to the PZI Forum.
Separate names with a comma.