? My Beloved Saoirse has Gone to The Bridge

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Critter Mom, Sep 17, 2016.

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  1. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,

    More detail on this thread:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-handle-diarrhea.164284/#post-1777614

    Story so far:

    Saoirse had a 3-day bout of diarrhoea after starting a new batch of her regular Sheba food (and civvie's poops on same batch were a bit suspect). I started slippery elm bark (SEB) and fed her from a different batch. Her appetite was not affected in the least during this time (eating heartily). Diarrhoea stopped after batch switch and 2nd dose of SEB. Saoirse had a normal, solid, healthy poop just over 24 hours later. At this stage Saoirse was in really great form, eating well and enjoying her food, happy (purring, affectionate, scent marking with her cheeks). I ran out of Saoirse's 'emergency' stock of food and I had to give her some more of the other batch (could not source a different batch locally). The diarrhoea returned within hours of her eating it. (I've reported this to the manufacturers.) As soon as Saoirse stopped eating this suspect Sheba batch the diarrhoea stopped again so both myself and the vet really think there was something amiss with it.

    I tried a different Sheba batch yesterday morning for AMPS meal. She ate this meal but would not eat any more (occasionally she'll turn her nose up at certain batches and she had not been keen on this particular batch before so nothing out of the ordinary at this stage). I have an emergency alternative food (Kattovit Sensitive Chicken) that Saoirse eats occasionally so she had some of that. After eating the 2nd meal of this food she started growling. She was completely inappetent by PMPS yesterday - wouldn't even lick some i/d gravy or SEB syrup from my fingers. I had to skip her insulin dose last night. (PMBG was 8.1.)

    Last night Saoirse got famotidine, ondansetron and 1/8 of a 4mg cyproheptadine tablet (and a quite reasonable amount of water via syringe). About 7 hours after eating the Kattovit paté she produced a poop which looked very much like undigested Kattovit but the stool, while very soft, was better formed than what she was producing on the dodgy Sheba (that was gelatinous, tan-coloured and malodorous). Saoirse vomited clear liquid in the small hours (presumably from the acid build-up due to her stomach being empty - that and constipation are the only things that trigger any vomiting in her and it is a very rare occurrence with her, as is diarrhoea for that matter).

    This morning Saoirse had severe abdominal pain. She did not eat or drink anything overnight. I got an emergency consult with the vets. Thus far, treatments received are:

    10:30 BST: Vet injections - bupe, vitamin b12, Cerenia, Betamox 3-day antibiotic.
    15:00 BST: Ondansetron 2mg

    Saoirse was still in a lot of pain and not wanting food so called the vets' OOH service.

    16:02 - Vet administered Metacam injection to help with acute pain management.

    17:21 - Pain response lessened. Saoirse ate a little puréed low carb food / water mix from my finger but started growling after a couple of teaspoonfuls.

    PMBG: 8.1 (dose withheld due to inappetence / 7-day average BG at this time 8.7).
    AMBG: 11.1 (insulin dose withheld again).
    AM blood ketone level: 0.1 mmol/L.

    (Alphatrak glucometer / human ketone meter)

    Saoirse is to get 0.2ml bupe every 6 hours.

    I am in bits over this. Saoirse has been doing so well over the last couple of months - better regulated BG, blood pressure back in the normal range, pigmentation normalising, healthy and steady appetite, overall contented and happy in herself in spite of the diabetes and other issues. In the days after the first bout of diarrhoea resolved she was very well - coat soft and shiny, terrific appetite, purry and affectionate. It is soul-crushing that she's now really unwell. It is agony to know she is hurting. I'm really scared about this flare.

    Please pray and send positive thoughts for my girl; she is in great need of them.

    Questions to follow in another post very shortly.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
  2. Capoo

    Capoo Member

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    Sending you a lot of prayers :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  3. Alexi

    Alexi Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  4. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Dear Mogs and Saoirse - sending you both the most positive vibes for getting through this ASAP.
    Keep us posted. We care.

    HUGS

    Diana
     
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  5. DebG

    DebG Well-Known Member

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    Mar 30, 2016
    Praying things improve quickly :bighug::bighug:
     
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  6. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Sending you hugs, dear Mogs!!!! Healing vines to Saoirse.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  7. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Poor kitty. I hope she improves soon!!!!
     
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  8. Julie and Eleanor

    Julie and Eleanor Well-Known Member

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    Sending prayers. :bighug:
     
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  9. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm really scared. I know Saoirse's had flares before but the major problem was nausea; it didn't hurt her when she tried to eat (she might experience a little bit of discomfort now and again after a meal but she certainly didn't growl). An hour or so after the Metacam and 2nd dose today of her bupe she seemed a bit better (side not quite as tender). She wanted the food but then she started to growl after only a few teaspoonfuls. That's all she ate between 6pm yesterday and 5:30pm today (just under 24 hours).

    STOP PRESS:

    I am a firm believer in the power of the prayers and healing thoughts of the wonderful members here and I am beyond grateful for them.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

    Saoirse perked up a little just after the first responses to this thread. (I think the 2nd dose of bupe might be kicking in.) She purred a little (probably from the bupe - they're not stress purrs) and she started moving around a bit - even visited her scratchy pole. (Up to that point she had barely moved most of the day.)

    Saoirse is hungry (and I am beyond thankful for that). I've just given her a tsp of the Hill's i/d gravy (HC) and 3 or 4 chunks of the meat. She wanted more. She didn't growl straight away but she did give a bit of a small grunt about 5 minutes after eating.

    I would very much welcome any experience and advice from members who have nursed a cat through a painful acute episode of pancreatitis; in particular:

    1. How best to manage feeding Saoirse to minimise her discomfort while still getting sufficient calories into her. (I think I am going to have to go with the Hill's i/d pouch food - high carb.) I know I need to feed little and often but any practical pointers would be beyond welcome; I'm desperate not to do anything that might hurt Saoirse if I can possibly avoid it.)

    2. How best to manage Lantus dosing around the higher carb food but most likely less than Saoirse would normally eat. about how best to feed while Saoirse is in pain like this. Also I'd very much welcome suggestions on how to manage Saoirse's Lantus dosing. I think I am going to have to go with the Hill's i/d pouch food (high carb).

    3. Whether anyone has used SEB and found benefit from it in similar circumstances to what Saoirse is currently experiencing. (Frankly, I'm petrified of giving her anything which might make matters worse.)


    Mogs


    @tiffmaxee, @Marje and Gracie, @Meya14, @Chris & China - If you're around can you suggest anything to help? If there's anyone else you can think of who might be able to help I'd be grateful if you might tag them to come and look at this thread, please. I feel really out of my depth with this flare. If I can't manage this at home, Saoirse is not a good candidate for hospitalisation.

    Supplies:

    I have famotidine, cyproheptadine, ondansetron and slippery elm bark. Saoirse is to get 0.2ml bupe every 6 hours. I managed to secure a supply of different batches of her Sheba food today (some are known good batches). I also have Hill's i/d intenstinal support pouches (higher carb). I also have chicken breast which I could cook for her but I'm worried about giving her this (would have been my natural first choice once upon a time) because there was an occasion in the past when switching to chicken made Saoirse vomit.
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  10. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    {{{Mogs}}} I'm sorry you and sweet Saoirse are going through this. I don't have any experience with pancreatitis, so I can't help with that, but wanted to send prayers, vines, hugs and scritches:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  11. jacereske

    jacereske Member

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    Feb 10, 2014
    My Eve had a terrible bout of pancreatitis about 6 months after her diabetes diagnosis Note: When she was diagnosed with diabetes, she was DKA and in the hospital for 3 days. She went into remission one week after coming home.

    When we got the pancreatitis diagnosis, Eve's fPL was 50 (off the charts) so she was hospitalized and received fluids and cerenia injections for 3 days. When she came home I switched from Purina D/M to low carb FF because I wanted to lower her fat intake. Because there was lots of fluid in her abdomen, we put her on Prednisolone, knowing it would end her diabetes remission and it did. But her internist felt it was necessary to address the pancreatitis. The only other med we had to use was Pepcid 1/4 tab twice a day along with the Pred. We had Cerenia but never needed it.

    Over time we were able to wean her off of both the Pred and Pepcid and she went back into remission.
     
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  12. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2010
    Why do you need to go with the HC food? Sorry but I haven't read all the past posts to know what's going on with the Sheba and if that is why you have to go with HC...that you don't have anything else.

    Have you been in touch with the vet? Have you asked about giving subq fluids? If the vet prescribes them or agrees, that little extra support can help.

    For now, I'd stick with your regular dosing unless you see numbers shoot way up. In that event, you'll want to slowly increase the dose by 0.25u. If she isn't eating, you still need to be sure you get insulin in her even if it is a reduced dose. Are you able to syringe feed her (I think I remember that you can.

    Small meals more often are good. If the vet has approved it, you could give the ondansetron twice a day at the prescribed amount and that will help with nausea. If you can syringe feed enough calories into her, that might be better than using a stimulant since those can come with their own side effects. But that is up to you. I can syringe feed my cats and I do not like the side effects of appy stimulants.

    If she's having an acid vomit (foamy or clear), I'd try the SEB syrup and if that doesn't work,then discuss with the vet using the famotidine. When it comes to tummy acid, one thing that really helps is keeping food in the stomach to help absorb the acid.

    However, having said all that, I'm a firm believer in having your vet involved. If one of my cats had pancreatitis, I would definitely be consulting my vet.

    Sending tons of vines and prayers for your sweet girl.
     
  13. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    Dear Mogs, I don't have any advice ( I do SO wish I did...) but please know that I am holding you and your darling Saoirse tightly in my heart; and I'm praying to whatever supernatural power that may exist out there that 'all will be well'.
    Do please know that you are very much loved on this forum, and that so many people are wishing Saorise well. xxxx
    .
     
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  14. Erica & Carter

    Erica & Carter Well-Known Member

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    Apr 5, 2016
    I have no experience or advise to provide you with Mogs but I will keep your girl in my thoughts. I know how much of a worried cat-mom you must be but she is lucky to have you! :bighug:
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  15. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Paidreacha.
     
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  16. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Hi Marje,

    Thank you very much for checking in and I'm grateful for your help and your prayers.

    Me, too. I took Saoirse to the vets for an emergency consult first thing this morning, Marje, and the vet also called out to the house this afternoon to give Saoirse a Metacam jab. Everything I'm doing is under veterinary supervision and the vet set the dose for pain relief, ondansetron dosage, etc. I'm relieved that Saoirse is expressing interest in food as I, too, would prefer not to deploy an appy stimulant if at all possible. (Vet says it's OK to do so if necessary.)

    I'm feeding the i/d because that's the only option I've got (least distress caused to Saoirse thus far - it's bland, lower in fat, and recommended by the vet as the most suitable thing to feed at the moment because of lower fat content than her regular food). I'm on the same page as you viz-a-viz keeping a little something in Saoirse's tummy in order to avoid issues with stomach acid build-up making matters worse. Saoirse lets me assist feed her by licking food off my fingers (she's not a fan of syringes) and she ate a little from my fingers earlier. I'm just so worried about causing her pain while trying to get food into her. All suggestions welcome on this one; it's the trickiest thing I'm dealing with. Could the SEB help with this?

    That's problematic with our vets (explored the possibility of home admin earlier this year and didn't get very far. Might be a possibility to get them to give them at the practice on Monday if necessary.) I have managed to get some water into Saoirse via syringe. If I can get her eating little and often that will help with hydration (she's OK hydration-wise at the moment, thankfully, but I need to keep on top of it).


    Mogs
    .
     
  17. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Status Check: (Alphatrak glucometer / human ketone meter)

    PMBG: 8.1 (dose withheld due to inappetence / 7-day average BG at this time 8.7). Current dose: Skinny 2.5IU Lantus BID.
    AMBG: 11.1 (insulin dose withheld again). AM blood ketone level: 0.1 mmol/L.
    AM+8.00: Ate 1-2 tsps LC (Sheba food - caused growling)
    AM+10.00: Ate tsp HC (Hill's i/d - grunt a few minutes after eating but appetite better. Overall still in considerable discomfort but better for pain meds.)
    AM+11.25: BG 21.3 / Blood Ketones 0.3 - +1.25 after HC food, +35.25 since last insulin dose.

    Marje, I know that her BG is sky high after the HC food but while I'm nervous of giving her the full 2.5IU dose because I'm petrified that I might not get much food into her overnight because of the pain issues. I don't want to leave her without any insulin at all (especially feeding the HC); I am very conscious of keeping her well away from DKA problems. I'd be grateful if you might give a few pointers on what reduced dose might be OK. (Saoirse's spreadsheet is up to date. Colour coding is customised but the US numbers are on the first tab in the sheet. Alphatrak meter.)


    Mogs
    .
     
  18. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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  19. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thank you everyone replying for your support, your prayers and your healing wishes for my beloved baby girl. And thank you all again for holding her worried and scared mama's hand. I'm so grateful not to be alone with this.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
  20. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Saoirse's having trouble walking - unsteady on her back legs. I think I need to ring the vets.

    The bottom is falling out of my world right now ...
     
  21. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm so scared. I am more worried about her today than I have ever been throughout all of our ups and downs. She's just gone to hide in the litter box.

    I think we're in trouble. I am fearing the worst.


    .
     
  22. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    (((((((Mogs))))))))
    Stay strong, honey. xxxxx
     
  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    I am thinking about whether to let her go ...
     
  24. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    If it were me, I would not be skipping shots. I know you are aware of the issues with that. Have you ever read this post on bad advice to newbies? I know you aren't a newbie but I think the point is the same. Any amount of insulin is better than none with a really sick cat, in most circumstances. Yes, there might be some circumstances on a case-by-case basis and especially if the cat is running really low, obviously. You might try a half dose and see how that works. If you can keep her in blue with a half dose, that would be good.

    SEB won't help with pain if that was the question. Also, she doesn't have to be dehydrated to need fluid support therapy but if your vet won't allow it, so be it.

    It's usually an issue with dogs and pancreatitis to need to feed lower fat diets. Not so with cats, in general. Unless you absolutely know that feeding a regular, LC food makes her pancreatitis worse, I wouldn't feed a higher carb prescription diet just because it is low fat. From 2nd chance:

    Felines have a unique requirement for a high level of fat in their diet. So the low-fat, moderate protein and high carbohydrate diets suggested for humans and dogs with pancreatitis do not work well in cats. You can find recipes for low fiber, high protein diets here.

    For the long term, once she is through a crisis, other things that might help her are B12 injections and digestive (not pancreatic) enzymes.

    I just saw your post......yes, if she's having problems walking, you need a vet.

    Good luck....prayers and pls keep us posted.
     
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  25. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    This is agony! She was wonderful two days ago. I don't want to make the wrong decision.
     
  26. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 9, 2015
    Mogs, I love you, and you have been there for me, and now I am here for you. Many, MANY prayers sent your way.
     
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  27. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Any idea why, Marje? Could it be too much bupe? Or possibly something else? I'd be beyond grateful for any ideas you might have from seeing this in other cats. I don't want to just have vet input on this because vets have failed me in the past. (I am preparing myself for the worst here ...)

    .
     
  28. Alexi

    Alexi Member

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    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
    Speak to the vet - she may need additional support in the way of fluids, I am a believer in 'if there is anything treatable then it's worth a try', I know how difficult it is for you at the moment - got the tee shirt on that one.
     
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  29. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    I just saw this. She might need IV fluids. Both Max and Tiffany needed to be hospitalized when they had acute attacks. Maybe her electrolytes are out of whack. :bighug::bighug:
     
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  30. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I would wonder the same thing as Elise.....electrolytes maybe? But not being able to see her and with there being so many other things in the equation, I just don't know. I do know it's difficult if you don't trust the vets but at some point in time we have to realize that they are the ones with the training and they do have the tools (e.g. IV fluids) that can help. As her advocate, continue to gather as much info as you can and ask them questions (I know I'm probably preaching to the choir here).

    The wobbly legs could be anything from her just being weak to something like a potassium imbalance and we can't tell you which....the vets would have to run labs.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  31. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2013
    You could also take her for labs done in house that could be run right away and based upon that decide next steps. I too know how you feel about not wanting to hospitalize her but somehow you need to get information which only a vet can get. :bighug:
     
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  32. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sep 6, 2010
    ((((((((More Hugs)))))))))..... and a reminder to breathe deeply, Mogs. You need oxygen to think clearly.....
    xxx:bighug:xxx:bighug:xxx:bighug:xxx
     
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  33. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Sending lots of vines to you and Saoirse. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  34. Diana&Tom

    Diana&Tom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    You can get through this, Saoirse... You can and you will...
    Stay strong, Mogs.


    HUGS
     
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  35. jacereske

    jacereske Member

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    Sending abundant purrs and prayers.
     
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  36. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all so much for the suggestion about IV fluids.

    I've just spoken to the vets and she didn't mention IV fluids at all. Were it not for your recommendations I would not have known to ask about them.

    Vet says it might be weakness due to pain and possibly the pain meds making her wobbly. I told her that similar doses of bupe never had that effect on her before (nor did she camp in the litter box). The vet said they can take her in and put her on a drip overnight. She won't have intensive care monitoring. It's not likely she'll eat without coaxing.

    Plan is to give insulin, try to get Saoirse to eat a little more and delay the next bupe dose to see if she can walk a little better as it wears off - and then call the vet again to decide about the hospitalisation. Still freaking out over how much insulin to give her so that she'll be safe in the hospital overnight.

    Great ideas, Elise, and I would jump at the chance to get urgent tests run but they're not really that advanced at the practice. I don't know how much testing they can do in-house.

    Re the hospitalisation, I'd be far happier having Saoirse where she can get more help. The worry that the vets and myself have is that she freaks out when she's hospitalised. The vet did mention IV pain relief earlier but was worried that Saoirse would not be a good candidate for hospitalisation (stress).

    I'm shaking like a leaf and I feel sick.


    Mogs
    .
     
  37. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    Mogs Many many many prayers sent your way, I am a firm believer in slippery elm bark...it may not be all Saoirse needs but it certainly can't hurt. If you can't get her feeling better at home, then a vet visit with SubQ fluids, pain relievers and anti-nausea may be the way to go.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

    ETA You have seen Saoirse through many tough times in the past. Please just breathe and trust in your knowledge and love
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  38. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2010
    I wouldn't worry about hospital dose right now. Baby steps so you don't feel even more overwhelmed.

    But, just a thought in case I don't get back right away and things change....If they won't monitor her, can you go and feed her so you can at least get half a dose in?
     
  39. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Thank you for this, Marje.

    Saoirse came back out of the litter box and her back legs went out from under her. Shortly after she managed to get back to her dinghy bed but I didn't see her so don't know how well/badly she was walking.

    I wish there was a more well-equipped and staffed hospital in the town.


    Mogs
    .
     
  40. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    I asked if I could sit with her through the night but they won't let me. :(


    Mogs
    .
     
  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Just put down some more i/d for Saoirse. She's eating without any encouragement or assistance from me.
     
  42. jacereske

    jacereske Member

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    Feb 10, 2014
    Dehydration and electrolyte imbalance are very common with pancreatitis so IV fluids are a pretty standard part of the treatment. If you are worried about her staying overnight, is it possible to take her in for some fluids and bring her home instead of leaving her overnight?
     
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  43. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 2, 2014
    Is it possible for them to put an IV feed line in and send you home with the solution?? I have NO idea if this is possible , but if so at least that way she could be home with you overnite and you could monitor her in more peaceful surroundings.
     
  44. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2010
    If they won't let her give subq fluids at home, I'm thinking there is no way they'll send her home with an IV line. It can be too dangerous.

    To give IV fluids at home, she would have to be caged and you can get fluid buildup at the insertion site. I wouldn't do IV fluids at home.
     
  45. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Spoke too soon; she ate the gravy under her own steam but I had to mash up the meat and gravy and hand feed to get her to eat a bit of meat. Purred while eating, and only a minor grumble just after she had the food. Managed to get 15g into her. She would have eaten more gravy but I want to keep the feeds small so as not to make things worse.

    Would gravy be enough to keep her going overnight in terms of emergency nutrition? (if she'll eat anything at the vets?).

    .
     
  46. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Holy cow. At many clinics in the US, if they have an open room, they will put you in there with the cat to spend as much time as you want.
     
  47. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Nor me.
     
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  48. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the input Marje..I guess I am grasping at straws here :(
     
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  49. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    A good idea in principle but there's one major advantage about her being in hospital because they could give her pain meds through the IV as well as the necessary fluids.


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  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    And I love you dearly for it, Mary Ann. :bighug:


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  51. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    I understand. It's a reasonable question.
    I think gravy is mostly carbs. I not sure how much nutrition is actually in it.
     
  52. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    I don't know if you have Hills A/D canned food there, but my girlie had almost 2 weeks where she was not eating and the BW and x-rays and all couldn't determine the cause. I syringed the A/D (which worked VERY well because of the consistency) and finally got her back to eating on her own. As much as I dislike prescription foods it was very easy to syringe and has added supplements as it is used as a "recovery food" for sick kitties.

    Throwing everything I can out here for you and Saoirse :bighug:
     
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  53. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Status Check: (Alphatrak glucometer / human ketone meter)

    PMBG: 8.1 (dose withheld due to inappetence / 7-day average BG at this time 8.7). Current dose: Skinny 2.5IU Lantus BID.
    AMBG: 11.1 (insulin dose withheld again). AM blood ketone level: 0.1 mmol/L.
    AM+8.00: Ate 1-2 tsps LC (Sheba food - caused growling)
    AM+10.00: Ate tsp HC (Hill's i/d - grunt a few minutes after eating but appetite better. Overall still in considerable discomfort but better for pain meds.)
    AM+11.25: BG 21.3 / Blood Ketones 0.3 - +1.25 after 1-2 tsp i/d HC food with gravy, +35.25 since last insulin dose.[/QUOTE]
    AM+12.25: BG 20.5 (+2.25 after few tsps i/d HC). Ate 15g i/d HC - mostly the gravy (hungry but slightly nauseated - gravy going down better than meat).

    NEED THOUGHTS ON LANTUS DOSE to give overnight:

    Currently on 2.50 and was quite tightly regulated over last few days (spreadsheet up to date - US BG values on first tab - custom colours - Alphatrak meter).

    I don't know whether to give her 1.50 or 2.00 units. I'd really welcome thoughts from experienced members on this ASAP. Petrified of getting it wrong.


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  54. jacereske

    jacereske Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    That is true and they can handle it if anything else comes up. What I meant to say, is would they give sub-q fluids and let her come back home. But if she needs to be on IV, yes she needs to be in the hospital. Eve was there for 3 days when she had her pancreatitis attack.
     
  55. Alexi

    Alexi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2016
    Can you liquidise the food with some water to make kitty soup? She may find that easier to eat.
     
  56. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    :bighug:

    I actually got some a/d for Saoirse earlier but the vets called to advise me not to feed that (I got it so that if there was no other option it might be worth trying). They advised that the i/d was a better option because a/d would be too rich.


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  57. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Some take their cats for IV during the day and bring then hone at night. I gaAD to Tiffany and it didn't cause issues. It's easy to syringe when mixed with water.
     
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  58. Shoeskitty-GA

    Shoeskitty-GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2016
    Prayers for you and Saoirse!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  59. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I've done that before. If it were not for the leg weakness I'd be inclined to wait till morning but I'm so worried about her that I feel it would be better to get her help sooner rather than later. I just wish she didn't get stressed out so much in the hospital.


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  60. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    The Hill's A/D might be a little richer than would be preferred but if eating is the first concern, it is VERY easy to syringe.

    ETA

    I have also given it to Tuxie who has chronic pancreatitis at the high end of the fPLI ( over the max number) and not had any bad results from using it.

    ETA Sending many boat loads of prayer and strength energy for you and Saoirse
     
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  61. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Tried that earlier with the 'good' batch of Sheba. I think it helps not having to chew. She licked it off my fingers fine but then she started growling. I mashed up the i/d chunks in the gravy to get her to eat a little of them just now and that helped a bit to get some protein into her but the meat seems to nauseate her slightly. I'm going to prepare some gloop and mashed up meat/gravy for her to be given overnight so that she'll at least have the choice to lick some gravy off the mashed-up meat if she won't eat the gloop.

    ETA:

    Saoirse's abdomen is still very sore but she didn't growl after the i/d food.

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  62. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Another option is meat/chicken broth if you have any...especially the home-made type. It has lots of vitamins and nutrients in it..sort of like the chicken soup for a sick child approach. :bighug:
     
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  63. Anitafrnhamer

    Anitafrnhamer Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Have you tried to feed baby food meat? It is low carb/no sugar. I always used to give Squeaker chicken baby food meat. SEB will help to cost the stomach to help with acid/nausea. If you choose to try the baby food just make sure it is all meat and without onion and garlic.
     
  64. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Any thoughts on dose? I know the decision is mine but I'd really welcome thoughts from members on this (sounding-board-style).
     
  65. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'd love to try this but, try as hard as I might in the past, I could not find one single baby food over here that hasn't been mucked about with in terms of the cat-inappropriate ingredients they contain to make them more appealing from a marketing angle. <sigh>


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  66. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @tiffmaxee, @Marje and Gracie -

    Elise, Marje,

    Do either of you know if it's OK to give 2mg ondansetron every 8 hours (or even 10 hours). Saoirse's next dose isn't due till 3am but I'd rather she had it before bringing her in to the vets. She has often taken it before on an 11/13 hour schedule without a problem. It would help a lot if I could give her the next dose a little early.


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  67. saltycat

    saltycat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Mogs, thinking of you and Saorise and sending all my remaining vines. I hope Saorise can get some food down and starts to feel better. I learned the hard way the last time Jack felt bad and wasn't eating that fully skipping the shot was generally a bad idea. With 2 skipped shots, the depot will be draining. How much insulin is the hard part, especially since it is hard right now to get any food in her since she is not feeling good. It also is tough since any HC intervention could upset her tummy more. Wish I could offer more.

    Feel better Saoirse and keep us updated Mogs. Sending vines till we get good news:bighug:
     
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  68. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Oh, well. For right or wrong, I've just given Saoirse 1.00IU Lantus.

    Status Check: (Alphatrak glucometer / human ketone meter)

    PMBG: 8.1 (dose withheld due to inappetence / 7-day average BG at this time 8.7). Current dose: Skinny 2.5IU Lantus BID.
    AMBG: 11.1 (insulin dose withheld again). AM blood ketone level: 0.1 mmol/L.
    AM+8.00: Ate 1-2 tsps LC (Sheba food - caused growling)
    AM+10.00: Ate tsp HC (Hill's i/d - grunt a few minutes after eating but appetite better. Overall still in considerable discomfort but better for pain meds.)
    AM+11.25: BG 21.3 / Blood Ketones 0.3 - +1.25 after 1-2 tsp i/d HC food with gravy, +35.25 since last insulin dose.[/QUOTE]
    AM+13.75: BG 20.5 (+2.25 after few tsps i/d HC). Ate 15g i/d HC - mostly the gravy (hungry but slightly nauseated - gravy going down better than meat).

    PMPS (AM+15.25): BG 22.7 (+1.5 after 15g i/d HC). No food given at this time.


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  69. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I feel scared and numb at the same time. I'm so shocked about what's happening.
     
  70. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
  71. saltycat

    saltycat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    If it was me, I would have done the same, a half dose sounds pretty reasonable, and Saorise is eating at least a little bit. Seeing even a little ketones and the higher BG would make we want to give some insulin like you did. Hang in there, I hope the root of the issue is this flare-up and she gets back to being a little more normal as the flareup subsides. She seems to be doing a little better after the bupe.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  72. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Mogs :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
    I know how worrying it is when our kitties get pancreatitis.
    My Sheba ALWAYS needs SubQ fluids when she gets a flare of pancreatitis as well as pain meds and anti nausea jabs.
    My vet will not let me do SubQ fluids at home either.....very frustrating......but I take her to the vet and they will give her the SubQ fluids and I bring her home again. Doesn't take long and I find the SubQ fluids ALWAYS make a big difference, even when she doesn't look very dehydrated.

    I like Mary Ann's suggestion of chicken broth. If you have some chicken breast you could poach it and give Saoirse small amounts of chicken with the juice, or even mixed with other food.
    I am also a fan of SEB.
    Sending my Strongest Aussie vines for a quick recovery for dear Saoirse
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
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  73. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Sending more hugs!! :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    And scritches to Saoirse.
     
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  74. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Hi. Sorry. I'm at my mom's and just saw this. You can give 2mg every 8 hours. How much does Saoirse weigh? You might be able to give even more. This is according to a vet n one of the lists I read.
     
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  75. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Looks like Elise got to you before I did but I was going to post the same info.

    I hope it helps her feel better.
     
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  76. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Just back from venturing out into the scary world to get Saoirse to the vets. (No taxis running at this time of night where I live.) Had a panic attack.
     
  77. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    What happened?
     
  78. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I'm so sorry you had to do that Mogs. Is Saoirse staying at the vet for now?
     
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  79. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @tiffmaxee, @Marje and Gracie -

    Thank you both for the ondansetron info. :bighug:

    I gave Saoirse her dose of ondansetron at the vets. They're not used to prescribing most of Saoirse's meds so I don't get much help re dosing. Saoirse weighs 4.85kg.

    Saoirse's being looked after by a new vet who only met her today. She's not a fighter of a vet, hence my earlier request for people to share their experience to help me in my deliberations about what to do.


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    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
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  80. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    I had to leave the house without any support (severely agoraphobic).

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  81. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Comment from the vet which worried me when I asked her to take into consideration steroid treatment should Saoirse need it (paraphrasing):

    "We can't treat pancreatitis. Pain management is basically all we can do. We might not be able to do much more for her."

    I'm glad I didn't get that sort of response 2 years ago when Saoirse had a flare and I'm eternally grateful to the members of FDMB for teaching me how to manage Saoirse's health needs since then.

    :bighug: FDMB :bighug:


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  82. Ollie

    Ollie New Member

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    Jun 22, 2011
    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  83. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Thank you for your post, Bron; I really appreciate hearing about your experience.

    How badly has pain affected Sheba during a flare? What symptoms did she have?

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  84. Meya14

    Meya14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    I don't have a lot of experience with pancreatitis, but as far as the insulin issue goes, you can try very small 8hour dosing to completely eliminate the peak, and be able to shoot very small doses that still provide enough coverage. I'd start with 0.25U every 8 hours and go from there that would put you up to only 0.75U a day total which is about 1/3 of her normal dose. Raise the dose after 2 days. No or too low of insulin will make her pancreas work harder, as will high blood sugars.

    Hope the IVs help. Praying for you guys.
     
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  85. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Rachel,

    She's in for the night. They'll review how she's doing in the morning and give me a call. We don't know how long she needs to be there or how long she can tolerate being there (she gets very scared-stressy and fractious; not ideal at the best of times and very difficult in the current circumstances).

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  86. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    @Meya14 -

    Thank you yet again for your invaluable help and advice. The vets historically have been inclined to underdose her any time she has been in with them (an even bigger worry right now). Thank you, too, for your prayers; we really need them. :bighug:


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  87. Mum of two felines

    Mum of two felines Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    :bighug::bighug:Hugs and prayers to you and Saoirse. I am so sorry I don't know enough to give you any advice.:bighug::bighug:
     
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  88. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I told the vet that Saoirse is a fighter.
     
  89. Mum of two felines

    Mum of two felines Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    She and you are fighters!!!
     
  90. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    My heartfelt thanks to all of you for your prayers, your healing thoughts, and your hugs. I am so grateful to all of you. I'm in poor shape as it is; Heaven only knows how I'd be without you all in our corner.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:


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  91. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    It is absolutely galling me that the only food she can manage right now is i/d high carb. :(

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  92. Bron and Sheba

    Bron and Sheba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    When Sheba gets a pancreatitis flare she sometimes has a bit of diarrhoea leading up to it....
    Sometimes she vomits but not always.
    She just stops eating which is a big red flag, as she is normally a good eater.
    She needs anti nausea meds to start eating again.....which is usually slow to start with.
    I can tell she is in pain as it hurts her tummy to touch it and she will growl, which is not something she will usually do. She will just lie in her bed and not respond much when I talk to her or when I get food out......not normal behaviour at all.
    She responds to a jab of bupe for the pain.
    And she always needs to have some SubQ fluids.
    Sometimes the vet will also give her antibiotics..if she has a temperature.

    Am so glad you were able to get her to the vet. Well done you! I know how hard it is for you :bighug::bighug::bighug:
    Sending the strongest vines.
     
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  93. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm absolutely reeling. Saoirse has been doing really well for quite some time now; so much so that I was afraid to post a bulletin here to let you all know for fear of jinxing things.

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  94. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I know how upsetting it is to leave them at the vet! I had to leave Elektra overnight last week and I was so upset.

    Mogs you are one of the strongest people I "know". Saoirse is a fighter and I have faith in her and you. I wish I lived around the corner so I could help but know I'll be thinking of you. If you feel lonely judtb know thoughts are coming constantly your way from me and others!

    Try to get some sleep. Saoirse is safe and cared four and you'll be better equipped to help her with Somme rest on board.
     
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  95. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    That's how Saoirse is right now. Like Sheba, that's not normal behaviour from her. Saoirse needed more than a bupe injection today and even then she only got very temporary relief, even with the Metacam to back it up. The second dose of bupe helped a bit more (that's when she started wanting to eat again) but it didn't eliminate the pain completely. If I could get the pain under control so that she could eat her regular low carb food (good batch), I'd be able to keep her fed, hydrated and back into better BG numbers at home.

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  96. Looby & Smiffy

    Looby & Smiffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Prayers and healing from Me and Smiffy too ..... There are so many people here
    sending their love it's got to make a difference and you are doing a great job
    How frightening for you ... Hope she is calm and well again soon.
     
  97. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm going to lie down for a while. I'm exhausted and in a lot of pain. Can't take any ibuprofen because I haven't been able to eat.

    You might not be round the corner, but I know that you're always there for us, Rachel, and it is such a help and a comfort to know that.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:


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  98. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm not strong at all, Rachel. You and the other wonderful people here are carrying me; you are the wind beneath my wings. I'm grateful beyond my powers to articulate.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:


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  99. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    A case of adrenalin overload providing the strength to lift the car off the child, Bron. It means an awful lot to me that someone understands just how hard things can be for me.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:


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  100. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2015
    Mogs are they giving some fluids?? It can help with inflammation and I doubt she is drinking enough....
     
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