My cat won't eat after 6 days of vetsulin shots

Hi all

My cat Oscar has been on Vetsulin for about 6 days now and has suddenly stopped eating. This is so odd for him he used to eat a whole can of food easily. He finds testing and shots stressful and I wonder if that's why he's stopped eating? My vet has advised for me to reduce his dose to 1 unit and stop testing to see if we can get him eating again. Has anyone experienced similar issues when first starting on insulin?

 

Hi and welcome! We have been talking some on the fb page.

If you can, please add some more info to your signature. Things like his insulin, dx date, food, etc. This way others won't have to keep asking the same questions over and over.

You already know my view on the vet telling you to not test. You will find many others here feel the same way.

 

Also, when you have more specific insulin type questions, dosing etc, there is a board here specifically for it. There is also stickies there that you can read that will help you learn and understand your insulin better. I spend most my time on the Lantus/Levemir board since Mr. Zeke is on Lantus.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/

 

Hi Amanda, glad you made it over here from FB.

While it 'may' be stress that's causing Oscar to lose his appetite there may well be some other reason.

Whilst there may not be any serious problem I do strongly suggest you test Oscar's pee for ketones. ...These can cause real problems for diabetics. And poor appetite and lethargy/depression could be symptomatic of a ketone problem. Ketones, if present, can quickly build up and cause a serious toxic condition called diabetic ketoacidosis ('DKA'). This condition needs immediate veterinary treatment.

Most pharmacists stock ketone test strips, for example 'Ketostix'. The test is simple, and just requires dipping the end of the test strip in a teensy drop of pee. Crumpling plastic food wrap over the cat litter is usually quite an easy way to catch a sample. And for cats who will tolerate it it's possible to stick a long handled spoon under the kitty's butt while they're peeing.

Ideally, you want to see a 'negative' result (ie. the little test square doesn't change colour). Anything above a 'trace' reading is a reason for a vet visit ASAP.

Not all ketones register on the strips, so also have an awareness of how Oscar's breath smells. It should smell like normal kitty breath (!). Breath that smells fruity or like peardrops could indicate ketones...

Hopefully, there is nothing really wrong with your kitty; but ruling out a ketone problem would be wise...

Hoping Oscar feels a lot better soon...

 

Hello and welcome

Without some bg numbers to crunch it's hard to say. If he's very high then that can make him feel very unwell.

I'm curious as to why your vet started on more than the recommended starting dose (check the vetsulin website yourself). I don't know what your starting dose was but it's possible that it drove kitty's numbers down a lot and he's been bouncing up and up making him feel more and more unwell.
That's pure speculation though as I don't have much information to go on.

With regards to the testing, I know how stressful it is for the moms and pops to do that, and also for kitty. I use freeze dried treats that are low carb and only ever give those to her if we are testing, I never restrain my cat either - I find you get better, long lasting harmony by asking kitty to do something in small bite size steps.

It concerns me that your vet has told you not to test. Only recently one kitty has ended up at deaths door, due to a vets incompetence, and another died because they didn't listen to the parents of that pet at the ER.
I'd very much advise you to continue testing and keep your kitty safe and you peace of mind.

I did find the testing learning curve very difficult I will admit that but given time (and lots and lots of patience, play, encouragement etc) it does work, I head to the testing spot lift the test kit and treats and Tempest comes running.

 

Thanks for your reply. I have added a bit more info as you suggested.

 

Awesome, that will be a big help for those helping you.

Something you might try on the eating that I have to do with Zeke is add some of his Tuna to his food. I don't know if I have just spoiled the boy or what, but most days he won't even touch his food unless I put a couple bites of the tuna on top. But as long as he has that, he will eat good. Zeke is a grazer but I still make sure he eats decently before I give his shot.

 

Thanks for your reply. Oscar has got some BG numbers from home testing on his spreadsheet. Oscars starting dose was 2units twice a day. Yesterday his numbers were really good in the mid 100's. I called doc today to say Oscar wasn't eating and vet advised lowering insulin and to stop testing incase he was stressed by everything. He said we'll readdress the dose next week and see how he's doing. He told me to call back if he still doesn't eat.

Oscar doesn't seem too fussed about treats at the moment I can't get him to eat. I would continue testing but I worry it will make him more stressed and possibly eat no food, at the moment he's dangerously thin and that's more of a concern than his levels.

 

Hun, you really have to test, that isn't an option. Once he starts getting better numbers his weight will improve. Trying to worry about his weight and not his numbers is not going to get anywhere. The problem with diabetes, is that it affects how the body uses food, so as long as his numbers aren't good, his body can't use the food the way it needs so he will continue to lose weight. That is why most diabetic cats will eat and drink more, and is one of the first signs that pet parents notice before the DX. The important thing right now is getting him to eat and getting his numbers down. You can't safely adjust his insulin without testing, which means you can't start getting his numbers doing better, therefore he won't start gaining weight.

 

I have some of those tuna dried flakes coming today to try but I don't think he'll eat it. He's off food completely which is so abnormal for him. I'm starting to feel like there's something else wrong with him. I hope not though we can't really afford any more investigation and would have to consider putting him to sleep :..(

 

Problem is at the moment is that he won't eat so I shouldn't really be giving him any insulin. I just wish he'd eat something I'm tearing my hair out with worry. I've even pretended to eat myself and tried spoon feeding

 

Hello again,
I only see a couple of highish numbers there, and those could be higher due to stress.
Have you recently changed his food? I'd try plain cooked chicken, tuna in spring water or deli ham/meat and see if any of those might tempt him.

Meredith is correct, he's not going to put on any weight while he's unregulated and the more numbers we have to work with the faster that happens.

as you don't know how he's reacting to the insulin you don't know if he's in safe numbers. You could do at least an amps and pmps and one between 4-6hours after shot (as long as his behaviour is fine and he's bright and alert) that would give you just enough information to keep him safe.

Edited to say. If he's really off his food I would be most concerned about dka, it's urgent you buy some ketostix and check for keytones as soon as possible. Dka can go bad very rapidly minutes can matter.

 

You mentioned on fb that he loves the gravy lovers. Something is better then nothing right now. Give him that and then you can always start mixing it with the other as he gets back into eating. You really don't need him going to long without food. Get him some of that down him and get those ketone strips.

As for the vet, you have got to understand that vets really have very little training when it comes to feline diabetes, insulin dosing, and nutrition. Our instincts tell us that we should trust them, but you really can't. Most here on this forum will tell you that probably 99% of the vets are complete idiots. Just the simple fact that your vet told you to stop testing, tells me that it is time to fire that vet and find a better one. And one of the first questions you need to ask before even making an appointment is find out how they feel about home testing. If they don't like it, then they aren't the vet for you. No vet worth his weight will ever tell you to not test or to stop testing. Please trust us on this one, you really have got to test. As TempestsMum stated, it doesn't have to be a lot (definitely don't follow my example on testing lol), 4 tests a day. Right before giving insulin and then at +6. At first it might stress him a little, but not that much and that stress will be short lived because it is happening at home and just give him his treat and lots of love. Quickly he will settle into it and even on the days he isn't happy about it, you will find that he is still very accepting of the testing.

 

Yeah when we first had him tested at the vets he was in the 400's so I dropped the dry food and changed his wet food to low carb. Then he started getting readings in the mid 200's. I have some dried tuna flakes coming soon to try with him, so we'll see if he eats them. He has had 2 shrimp today so that's better than nothing. If he doesn't eat by tomorrow morning I will call the vet to see where we go from here and I will mention ketones. Thanks

 

You can test ketones yourself, don't need the vet to do that. And because your kitty is diabetic, you need to be doing that on a regular basis anyways. You can by the ketone strips in the diabetic supplies at the pharmacy. They are cheap and it is pretty simple to get a sample. Don't wait on your vet since your vet is already showing that he isn't very experienced with feline diabetes.

 

Oh yeah I know I do take my vet with a pinch of salt if you get me. My vet was pleased I was home testing and was liking the levels I was getting yesterday but as soon as I mentioned he wasn't eating I think he was concerned. Obviously you can't do insulin without food so he decided to just drop the insulin right down to a level which cannot make him go low considering his past levels and stop testing for today to see if its stress thats causing him not to eat.

 

I'm actually a little stranded at the moment as I dont drive and my hubby is away until Monday so I can't get anywhere to get some ketone strips but I will get some asap

 

I would try mixing some of his old wet food with the low carb stuff and see if he will eat that.

I don't think you understood me when I say how dangerous keytones are, I highly recommend you test as soon as possible today/night. We are talking about minutes here from going trace to bad to life threatening. It's a simple test, you just catch some urine and dip the stick in, remove it and wait 15 seconds to see what the reading is. And they only cost a few pounds/dollars.

Ok so ALL insulin even small amounts can cause a cat to hypo. Mine hypoed on half a unit, she didn't show any symptoms and I managed to catch it because I tested, otherwise I would have gone to bed and woke up with a dead cat in the morning.

Of course I do respect your decisions and all I can do is offer advice. What you do with it is your call.

 

My thoughts exactly on this. Since kitty is new to insulin, you really don't know what a dose is going to do for him.

Do you have anyone that can give you a ride? It really is important that you get this test done asap. It can quickly overcome a kitty and from what my daughter found when reading up on it (though this could be more for humans and not so much kitties, don't know) having the high ketones in their system is like acid running through their veins, so it would be very painful for them.

 

I spoke to the vet they said stop insulin for tonight its (7pm here) and feed him even if by syringe and then call first thing tomorrow and they might need to see him. Thanks all

 

Because I want you to be as aware as possible and also so that I feel I have done everything I can to help I ask that you read this. Then at least you make an informed decision. Please note if Oscar shows any signs of the symptoms. Sending prayers for tonight for you both. x

http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/endocrine/c_ct_diabetes_with_ketoacidosis

 

Interestingly Oscar will eat dry food but not any wet. He's always had canned food so dont know why he wont eat it now

 

Thanks I'm hoping its not anything serious because I can't afford more treatment and not easy to get transport at the moment. I will have to UBER to the vets tomorrow

 

You can contact DCIN and ask for help with treatment especially if it's dka. Or set up a fundraising page. I will tag @Chris & China to see if they can help somehow.

 

Don't worry yet I'll go to the vets tomorrow and find out what it is first. Thanks a lot for your support. I just managed to get him to eat one little lump of pate and a couple of shreds of chicken other than that he wants to eat dry food. Do you think feeding him dry food would be ok for tonight?

 

Oscar isn't showing signs of DKA I read the symptoms for a cat. So fingers crossed. Thanks for your help

 

Have you ever tried crushing some of his dry and sprinkling it on top of the wet? Enough that he smells his familiar dry food...it may get him to eat better without going to totally dry

If you have a spice or coffee grinder, they work well, but any way you can crush it will work (just make sure to clean the grinder if you use it before you use it again for yourself....lol)

 

Take a look at China's Profile (in my signature).....you'll see how far back she came from being a walking skeleton

 

When I mixed wet and dry he looked for the dry and if he couldn't find he left it

 

If dry is all he'll eat right now, feed him dry. Not eating is a worse problem because it can lead to diabetic ketoacidosis or hepatic lipidosis. Both are very serious, expensive to treat and potentially life-threatening.

 

I managed to get him to eat a quarter a tin of wet food and a little bit of dry

 

Just checking in to see how Oscar is doing today?

 

Aww thanks nice of you to think of him. We went to the vets today and he had some xrays. Sadly seems he does have some abnormalities to his organs and some densities in his body. We're trying to decide whether to have an expensive ultrasound done or to let him go over the rainbow bridge :..(. I'm pretty devastated he's only 9 not old for an indoor cat. Seeing vet again Tuesday to discuss his xrays more.

 

Oh no. Not the news I was hoping for. Hopefully they can find a plan that will allow you to have him around for a while longer.
I tend to gauge whether or not what I do on quality of life, age and whether or not that treatment has a high probability of a good income and whether or not it's necessar.

For example, my ginger (ga) kitty was 27 when he died but in his early 20s he took a rare form of cancer on his lip. I did opt for surgery, but not chemotherapy as at his age I felt that would be too much for him and I wanted him to have quality rather than quantity of life. (And dignity)

Pascha my (ga) cavalier dog had luxating patella, a stroke that left her deaf and severe heart murmur between 6month old and a year I fought hard for because she was that bit younger - we did all we could but she had to be euthanised at 5&1/2

Those decisions are never easy and whatever you decide it is the right decision for you and Oscar.

Sending prayers and cuddles for Oscar.