? My Diabetic Boy Needs to GAIN Weight

OMG, sorry, 3rd attempt to begin my own thread (did as "conversation" at first, oops)

Hi all, I just found this forum, and have a question. Currently I am feeding newly diagnosed sweetie, Chester, the DM pate. He is very skinny, so have any of you had your furbaby gain weight from DM pate? I know many times kitties are overweight when diagnosed, but my little guy desperately needs to gain weight. Also, how long will it take to start putting on some weight? I am by nature lacking patience, and worry excessively about everything, but am hoping to find someone who's kitty has put on weight, to put my mind at ease. He probably should gain about 2-3 pounds. Thank you!

Also adding, Chester is about 13 or so (not exactly sure), and was diagnosed on 1/2/17. I was told in July 2016 he was BG 199, then about 2 months before diagnosis was at 297 (or so) and then on 1/2 is was 397 I believe. So Chester is a cat that will not allow constant fussing - I have 4 outside rescues (he being one of them) and he just won't allow it. He'll scratch, growl, and hide (has been his pattern over the years). So the vet knows this and also has to sedate him whenever doing anything. Chester had a bad inner ear infection which brought on vestibular syndrome (vertigo) and had been battling skin issues and trying to grow back hair after it was said he had dermatitis (but probably actually caused by diabetes I'm sure). Anyway I was told the ear infection was being treated with long-acting antibiotic pack in his ear and in the recent past he's had lyme baths to assist his skin condition, which seemed to be working, as some hair has/is growing back but they'd also given him long-acting steroid for the "dermatitis", which I now know didn't help matters. So after I was told he had to be on insulin shots 2x per day and "so what do you want to do?", I said I'll take him home and think about this. So then I found a local vet who is educated in both eastern/western medicines for pets and decided to go there for a 2nd opinion, along with a wonderful supplement I found online called PetRemedy Glucose Support, which is working at the cellular level to assist his body in getting back to doing what it is supposed to do - but it takes time for it to take full effect. So in the meantime I have cut out ALL dry food for all outside furkids (should have done long ago), and Chester is currently on the DM pate, and the others on fancy feast or friskies canned. Vet has been doing glucose curves, giving vetsulin as indicated by glucose levels, and sub-q fluids. I've been taking every day in morning, and picking up at night for last 2 weeks. Glucose levels seem to be normalizing and I am now taking him every other day hoping to stretch to skipping 2 days, and vet will keep testing glucose when I go. He is just weak and still wobbly, probably a little still from vestibular syndrome slowly improving, and some from being weak from losing weight. Again he probably should gain about 2-3 pounds. So I'm hoping with the supplement working the way it does, that he will be able to gain some weight back, testimonials indicated other's cats have had that success.

 

I have never fed DM. But if you are asking in general about weight gain... when we adopted Morris he was 9#. He now weighs 15# which is a good weight for him. We just fed him a lot more and of course the insulin working.

 

Whew! You have your hands full for sure! To clarify: does Chester live outside all the time? This makes managing his diabetes that much more complicated. I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

Treating feline diabetes requires patience. We always say it's a marathon and not a sprint. Some cats will become regulated quickly and some take a very long time.

This will need some intensive training and lots of positive reinforcement. It sounds like the vet is doing all the glucose testing and insulin injecting. Am I correct? I don't have any experience in training a hostile cat but many here have managed to teach their kitty to accept the handling that BG testing and insulin injecting requires by making it a positive experience that happens in a specific location. They begin by mimicking the actions that ear poking and insulin injecting involve but not doing those things. The kitty is rewarded with petting, scritches and lots of freeze dried meat treats. You could repost here with a specific question about training a difficult cat.

When was the steroid given? It might well have triggered the diabetes. Some cats will go into remission after the steroid is terminated. It's true that diabetes can cause poor coat condition but some cats have allergies that cause dermatitis.

Twice a day insulin is standard therapy. Cats metabolize insulin very quickly so they need doses twice a day for optimal BG control.

Excellent move! All cats benefit from a wet low carb diet. Chester can eat the Friskies and Fancy Feast as well if they're the pate types and not sauce/gravy types (too high in carbs).

This will become very expensive in the long run and I'm not sure it's sustainable. Also, many/most cats are stressed at the vet's and this will cause elevated BG. It can result in too high a dose of insulin being prescribed. We strongly advocate testing BG at home (after you've worked on treat training your boy!) and injecting the insulin yourself. These are easy skills to learn and we can help.

Do you mean that you hope to reduce insulin administration to every 2 days? I'm sorry if this is disappointing to hear but I don't think that will happen. Some cats do achieve remission but it's a process of using insulin in twice daily doses over time until the dose needed to keep BG at a healthy level dwindles and eventually is down to to zero. The cat is then regarded as a diabetic still but a diet controlled diabetic.

I don't know about the supplement you're giving but many people here use various supplements to help their kitty in other ways. The thing they usually want to know is whether a given supplement will affect BG levels negatively.

Our "tried and true" protocol we use here can be summarized as:

1. test blood glucose before each injection AM and PM to know whether the planned dose is too high or not (no food at least 2 hours prior to these tests)
2. feed, wait 20+ minutes if using a fast-acting insulin like Vetsulin
3. inject insulin
4. test at least once every day in the mid range of the day or night cycle (the 12 hours between shots) to see how low the dose if taking the BG.
5. do a full curve occasionally to see the full picture of a dose's effect.

 

OK, thank you! I now know there is hope for gaining some weight, I guess it will just take some time for sure!

 

Thank you for all the information - and the steroid was started when his skin condition started which was last year (probably early to mid-year) when his hair was falling out. So lyme baths began and steroid shots (he's had multiple over the months just not sure how many at the moment), then after a few lyme baths is when in between I noticed his skin felt almost scabby, so I'd decided to try to comb an area with the flea comb and saw flakes instead of scabs. So then when vet said dermatitis that made sense. There have been no more steroid shots and I will make sure no more. Last one would have been late last year, and so this would explain the BG going up over the months.

But other than the weight and wobbly issue he is having, the BG is actually not going badly and in the right direction. At first vet was giving the insulin based on the levels from the glucose curve, so it varied. During the last week (and mind you he's now been on the supplement since about Jan. 11th) they gave him only 1 unit and it went within normal range without any more. I know the supplement takes a little time to take full effect, but it appears with that and the canned food only diet, things are beginning to normalize. I understand it seems that I'd be able to, somehow, get to where I could treat him at home, but if you could only see Chester in action you'd understand, it is impossible. Yes he is outside and has lived his entire life (here at least) there (I have other cats inside that will NOT allow any other cats, trust me as I've been used to bringing cats in any time I wanted to during the years, never had cats like these 2 inside). But for the vet I was taking him to that diagnosed him, to have to sedate him to do anything, tells you something. They specialize in handling hard cases and have helped me over many years with multiple feral cats that I have done TNR for and either needed spay/neuter or after that had medical issues over the years. Chester goes ballistic. So I am just praying that he is making a turn-around (appears that way as far as BG), and that the supplement can assist in that. I only wish I'd stopped the dry food so many years ago! Horrible part about life is we have no do-overs. Such a hard lesson and one we keep re-visiting in many different ways during life.

For anyone who wants to see what the supplement is that I'm giving you can read about it at the following link: (as you can see there's no numbers or letters indicating I'm not a salesperson for this - I am just amazed though and think it's wonderful so I'm trying it for my sweet boy)
http://www.petremedy.com/cat/glucosesupport/product.htm

 

Trust me on this, I'm not lecturing you and I have not gone over every detail of what's been written. When/if Chester goes outside is there a possibility a kindly neighbor is feeding him? That's not very scientific is it? We've done it ourselves with the exception of Milo. Milo was one of those cats that would just not accept being locked inside. He wore a safety collar, tears off easily if the collar gets snagged, with a medallion that had "Do not feed me. I need special food" stamped on it. Just a thought.

 

Hello, I agree with you that would be a problem but Chester now is much older and he only goes to my location and across from me my neighbor also feeds 4 former ferals and she agreed not to put out any more dry and understands the importance - she and I work closely together so it's not like she'd put it out anyway. Other than that Chester doesn't go anywhere else - no more hopping fences or roaming around - that was in his younger days, lol. And anyone else wouldn't be able to read a medallion on a collar that he is wearing anyway - Chester wouldn't allow someone he doesn't know that close to him. He's a character. I did just think of something though - he also goes right next door sometimes to lay around, and I will also speak to my neighbor there so he knows to not put out any or even any milk products. Thanks again!!

 

I just now put out some peanuts, unsalted of course, for our squirrels. Not the squirrels, OUR squirrels. I am Mothers Nature's nosy neighbor. I've heard this 1,000 times, there's food everywhere, water is hard to get. So funny putting out the tiny bowl of water and having those beady eyes look back, "It's about time stupid human". Good luck with Chester. Being here is step one.

 

Today was a good day, no a great day!!

Last week was up and down with my beautiful Chester. I've been taking him to vet each morning and picking him up each night since Saturday, 1/7/17 (except Sundays closed). So that was going well - they were monitoring his glucose levels and giving him insulin to try to establish the best dose for him, and at the same time on Wednesday, 1/11/17 he had his first afternoon dose of the supplement I ordered. So when his glucose levels started to go down more with less insulin the Dr. said it appears his body may be starting to kick in and I was over the moon! I thought we were home free! So I had a great idea that after this last Sunday being skipped and Monday's levels weren't too bad, that maybe we could skip Tuesday and start an every-other-day thing and then go to every two days, etc. Well I was wrong - maybe just too soon? Anyway He did not have a good day Tuesday - I mean he ate ok and all but he was just taking a back-step in being alert and less lethargic, so I was devastated, thinking this whole thing is just not working, he's not responding, I'm allowing him to suffer (horrible pattern I tend to have in trying to hang on), and was struggling with if I just needed to let him go or what. So I discussed with vet and she's kept telling me that I CAN do the insulin injection (I've got a needle phobia super bad) and on top of that Chester, when he's at his best, (had him since around 2006 or so) is not one to put up with being constantly bothered with meds, etc. He hides or flees when he sees me coming, so I thought with those two obstacles against us there was no way this was ever going to be able to be done.

So she (my vet) listened to me and my concerns, and she said it would not be fair to say goodbye to him because he can be helped and it was way too soon to conclude he wasn't responding (again I was thinking he wasn't responding and was getting worse and suffering). She said we found out we cannot skip a day, and kept emphasizing that I COULD do the injection. So first they were talking about the vetsulin pen and I thought it would be great, envisioning a little pen contraption with a hidden needle that pops out with the dosage when you click, but after watching a video and viewing the pen at the vets, I saw the needle sticking out, not like I thought it would be, and considering all the things I'd have to be aware of, so I was nervous about it.

My wonderful vet offered to bring the technician that Chester loves with her, and they would come to my house to show me how to do the injection in Chester's comfort place. So they came this afternoon, and my vet also brought regular needles and a vial, along with the pen. She wanted to show me both and explain some things. Both she and the tech said they thought I'd actually do better with the injection since it's so quick. So with their observation I actually did it! I am so happy. Chester got his unit and it came from me! Now, I told her mechanically I can do it, so it's up to Chester as to how long he will allow it - so we take it a day at a time. If he starts getting back to his normal self and back to his normal temperament, if he still needs insulin by then, I will take him in the morning for his shot and in the afternoon too if needed (that's what I've been doing only he's been stuck at the vet all day). So it gave me hope again and now I know no matter what Chester should be OK. I look forward to seeing my beautiful Chester getting back to normal. By the way, one thing I noticed that is happening really quickly from the supplement I think is his hair is so soft now and the undercoat is growing back very well. Soon he should have more longer hair back too. I'm happy I have a place to share this with people who understand what it's like. Thank you!! Michelle & Chester =^,,^=
I'll update as we go along. Below is a pic of my little guy on 1-12 not feeling so well (at vet), and I will post a picture in the near future so you can see him when he's feeling better.

 

Congratulations on getting that injection done by yourself! It WILL get easier with time There are many ex-needle phobes here. I really think you need to get accustomed to the idea that twice daily injections of insulin must be part of your routine for Chester for the foreseeable future. If you're lucky he might go into remission but unlesss/until that happens he needs insulin to get well and stay well.

You mentioned that you're a needle phobe. That will improve the more you actually do injections. Over time that phobia will disappear. You'll become very efficient and confident doing Chester's shots and he'll be much less aggravated by the whole thing.

Good luck!

 

I just wanted to chime in here about the weight issue. My cat, Chuck, was 13 pounds and happy before diabetes. Because I didn't notice what was going on with him he lost 3 pounds before being diagnosed. Then he lost another pound. He was down to 9 pounds when he started insulin on 9/7/16. I was feeding him 9 ounces a day and have upped it to two full 5.5oz cans a day. He is up to 10.4 pounds in 4 months but he is not regulated and has high BG on a lot of days so I don't think his weight gain is technically "normal". But he's gaining! It is possible but you have to increase his calories until he gets to his target weight. Then decrease how much he gets once he's there. Increased food sometimes means increased insulin but in your situation it might be difficult to know for sure.
Congrats on giving insulin!!! I think it helps a bit that the fur kinda "hides" the poke. At least Chuck's does.

 

Congratulations on your first injection. Someone on here or a Facebook forum (I don't remember which) had a needle phobia, and she said she managed it by telling herself it wasn't a needle, it was spaghetti. Sounds silly but it helped her cope and get the job done. Lol. He really does need two a day.

 

Thank you!!!

 

I'm glad we could help. When you're giving Chester his injection tell yourself you're pushing past your own fear because you love your boy and want to get him felling well. Breathe deeply and slowly and then give yourself a big pat on the back afterward. A little treat for yourself at the end of every successful day of injecting is also a good idea and maybe a bigger one at the end of a week. You'll deserve it because you'll have worked hard at doing something you found scary to do.

BTW, I don't think you said what specific type of insulin you're using and what dose your vet has prescribed. It'll help us give you better advice if we know. And I hope you keep posting here - we make a good cheering squad when people are in the early stages of treating their kitty and feel nervous and uncertain.

 

Thank you to everyone!!! Yes, in fact I've told myself I am giving my Chester his life's blood at this point!

The insulin the vet has him on now is Vetsulin, and right now they decided probably 1 unit 2x/day will work. It's still hard because his levels were going all over the place, (sometimes starting in morning high 100s, other times mid-high 200s, sometimes 300s, etc.) but they started to find that when they gave him a larger dose, his levels actually were going down lower than they anticipated, meaning that (as vet told me) his body was starting to contribute some of the insulin to bring it down lower, which is great. So since yesterday afternoon/evening was the first dose I gave him on my own, they said go ahead and bring him this morning so they can check the glucose, then we both get to come back home! Then I can give him some more food and his injection. Then I will go again on Wednesday to check things again. I know some people do check glucose levels themselves, but again, with Chester's history of hiding, growling, trying to scratch, and at his best and extremely strongest he was squirming around while scruffing so that is definitely not an ideal situation for poking his ear and trying to work the drop of blood up and then getting it on the tester! So I'll stay with the injection itself and we'll work together (vet and I) to keep monitoring his glucose and go from there. This whole thing is so overwhelmingly confusing to me I cannot even tell you - it makes no sense how things can be accurate when every time he eats the glucose goes up, so you give the injection and it brings it down. I get that. But when/if his body starts producing more and more of it's own insulin, then of course the insulin dosage needed goes down, but we have no way of knowing how quickly that may happen and hopefully the supplement is yet another thing (besides his body in general) that may help him regulate. So what if I'm giving him his 1 unit 2x/day but we're checking him every 3 weeks let's say (working from checking 1x/wk then 1x each 2 wks, etc.), BUT during this time all of a sudden he's regulating on his own, I'm then overdosing him and he could go the opposite direction. I know I worry about everything but I am concerned about that. So you guys can help hopefully so I can trust and relax and be patient about the entire thing.

 

Oh, and off-topic, where do I find the choice to sort by newest first? I've looked and don't see it.

 

Right now Chester is on a good starting dose of Vetsulin. One unit twice a day is what we'd recommend. His BG numbers will wander up and down, especially at first when his body is starting to get used to the insulin. They might settle well at this dose or he might need a tweak in the dose.

You've hit the nail on the head here! This is precisely why we're such strong advocates of learning to test at home. You've said that Chester is very averse to any extra handling, etc. Humour me here: what if you start calling him to a specific location where all the "stuff" happens (for now, the injections) and do nothing more than praise him, pet him, whatever he'll tolerate and give him a freeze dried meat treat (great for diabetics because they have no carbs)? Do this over and over as many times as it takes to teach him that it's a good place to be. After he's learned that, do the same but start touching his ears a bit while he waits for his treat. Build up to more ear touching/stroking/handling over as long a time as it takes. Give him those treats liberally. Do absolutely nothing more than ear handling and praise for +++ days. I think he'll learn that coming to that spot means good things. At some point, maybe with help from someone at first, you'll find that you'll be brave enough to try pricking his ear to do a blood glucose test.

Chester's safety is highly dependent on you knowing his blood glucose status at key times like just before injecting and mid way through the time between shots. As a needle phobe you probably cringe at the idea of poking his ear for a tiny drop of blood to do a BG test. It's very easy to convince ourselves that something is impossible when we're afraid of it. There are scores of people here who were terrified to do injections and ear poking but overcame it and now it's second nature to them. There are also many who had very grumpy cats who learned to tolerate all the steps that are needed. If the human is calm and business-like, the kitty senses that and is generally more cooperative. They can certainly feel your anxiety and it raises theirs.

I hope you give serious thought to learning to test BG yourself. It's a much more budget friendly option and you'll be hugely relieved to know exactly what's going on with your beloved Chester. Another plus is the big boost to your own confidence that overcoming your fear will give. This has a way of spilling into other areas of your life in a positive way.

 

Yay, injection #2, 9:30am today!! (AND when I went to the vet this morning to check glucose it was 224 I think they said, so not bad at all!)

PS - yes I am pondering the glucose testing too...will see if I can begin getting him comfortable with me touching his ears for a period of time...

 

That's what I did the few days before I started... Every time I pet my cat I would spend some time touching her ears. It's really not difficult after the first week?

 

Hi everyone, there's been many ups and downs since the last post in this thread and I'm happy to report Chester is making great, no unbelievable, progress!

There were a few times I'd resigned myself to the fact he was not responding and because he was so weak and the whole thing was such a fight, that I was doing him a disservice in putting him through all this for nothing. I've done that so many times to my other sweet furkids, and the guilt from that can be overwhelming. So I'd even talked to the vet about it and she told me that it would not be fair to give up on him as his blood work showed all his other organs were fine, so it was too soon to know if all this would work. Thank God! Slowly he began to appear stronger each day, although sometimes I thought he was backsliding. I would go into the vet and want them to watch him walk because I was just sure he was declining since he was weak and wobbly. The last time I did this, he sat down on the floor, by the door that he could see through, because he wanted out of the exam room. I sat his carrier a little ways away and finally he made his way over to it. Although he was weak, his walk DID appear a little straighter/stronger. Since then it has been better and better. He finally has started putting on some weight. One week he'd been 7.6, the next 7.9, and I think a couple weeks later 8.06 (this was before sub-Q fluids). So I have not had them do any more weighing yet because I was obsessing each day and realized that was ridiculous because like with us he could fluctuate and then I go into a panic. He feels heavier and I will have them weigh him with his next fructosamine test. I have a feeling it will be great news. Oh, and I no longer feel the need to have them "watch him walk" since he is doing amazing and walking straight and strong.

Two amazing things happened in the last couple days. I have a folding camping chair outside that he'd loved to jump up in and sleep before all this started. Then when he got so weak he could not get up there, so at least since late Dec. he hadn't been getting up there. The other day I went out expecting he'd be on the patio table, where their electric heated pads are but he wasn't so I was going to search to see if he was in the litter box, BUT amazingly he was curled up in his chair! And there was no step-up by the chair because the other furbaby had been using it and Chester wasn't even trying. I couldn't believe it! My first instinct was to put something there so he could easily step down from it when I caught myself and said, no, he jumped up there so he can jump down and he needs to exercise his muscles. Last night my husband came in and told me that Chester had jumped up onto the patio table from the ground!!! I still am in disbelief. This is astounding to me.

BTW his first fructosamine test was on 2/20/17, and he was within normal range. I think it was 367 if I'm not mistaken. I got a copy (not with me at the moment) and he was at the high end of normal, but it was normal. The vet was happy because this was his first one. So they'd had me doing 1 unit Vetsulin 3x/day since his levels had been up/down when they were doing the glucose levels in the office, but he gets very stressed so I know the numbers were very elevated and we had no way of knowing what was really going on. So the fructosamine test was a blessing to find the normal level. I have a feeling it's even better now. I will wait probably another week to get the next one.

I have a question for you guys. Yesterday something happened that was completely out of the ordinary lately, and I wonder if this means he may be in or approaching remission. I gave him his insulin shot and was waiting about 1/2 hour for it to kick in a bit because he seems a little hungrier that way, but I looked outside and saw him walking around the house, then to the back porch where I put the other kittie's bowls (but they hadn't been fed yet) and he was searching for food. So I hurried to get the food ready for everyone and he was not there. He'd gone to my neighbor's house who was opening cans for her outside furkids and he was eating, so I brought him over to eat his diabetic food which he's been on and doing fine with, he took a couple bites and went back over to neighbor's. So I went again and brought him back, he ate a couple bites and then I saw him go to the back porch and start eating the canned food there, and then he was gone - across to neighbor's again, so I relaxed and decided he was bored with the diabetic food, and it may be time to not worry so much since I'm buying the Friskies or Fancy Feast that is OK for diabetics (based on comparison lists), and my neighbor is at least only serving wet food since this all began. So I went out this morning at 1:30am to give him his overnight injection and he woke right up and was not lethargic which is what I was afraid of. I mean the desperation I saw last night with him, actually sprinting across to my neighbors, made me worry his glucose was too low. So this morning was great because he was acting normal. He is drinking water again over the last week too so that has finally started again. So does it mean he may be in or close to remission? Sorry this is so long but I was updating his progress as well as posing this question.

 

Ask the neighbor to only serve him fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. If you want to heal his neuropathy faster, add b12 methylcobalamin to his food. I'm glad he's showing improvement

 

Great news that Chester has improved so much!