? Need some help please

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Peppersmom72, Dec 26, 2017.

  1. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I'm done! Pepper did not get her shot this morning. I can't handle this anymore and neither can Pepper. No one responds from anywhere to help, so, I don't know what else to do. I'm back at square one watching my baby suffer. This is no kind of life for her.
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Why wasn't she able to get a shot this morning?
     
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Who isn't responding to you? You mean your vet isn't calling you back?

    You need to raise that dose a bit.

    If it makes you feel any better, my cat didnt even see a yellow number mid cycle until almost 3 months into giving insulin. I didn't see results in her preshots until she was up to 3 units.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    One other idea that hasn't been explored yet is dosing 3 times a day. This works for cats getting 8 hours or less action from their insulin... The obvious downside being it's a pain in the ass for the owner to inject every 8 hours. I don't know what your schedule is like or if that's even feasible for your situation. Again ideally a longer acting insulin would be a more practical solution.
     
  5. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    Yes. I probably won't get a call back for 2 days. I understand that we just got off a holiday, and I understand that this is not a sprint but enough is enough. How long is she supposed to go with high numbers and feel like S*&^ before something is done. Sorry for the venting, but I feel helpless.
     
  6. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I am gone 11-1/2 hours a day at work. So that will not work
     
  7. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    Pepper would not eat at all this morning. I tried 4 different foods, I tried parmesan cheese. Nothing worked.
     
  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I thought that was the case. I guess you are testing on a lunch break, or is a family member testing mid day?

    It's possible you just haven't found your breakthrough dose yet. Raise to 2.75 for 6 cycles (3 days) and then reevaluate. If it's not enough then we go to 3.
     
  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Even without eating, with numbers this high don't skip. No food + high bg+no insulin is a recipe for ketones to develop.
     
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  10. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I was told not to give insulin if she doesn't eat. This is where all of the confusion is coming in. I can't get a straight answer. The vet told me not to shoot if she is below 300. Now she tells me to shoot 2.5 no matter what number she is at. This is crazy. I'm supposed to shoot no matter what number she is at? (Per the vet)and I supposed to shoot if she's puking and I'm supposed to shoot if she doesn't eat? I'm getting all these different answers and in the mean time I feel like I'm making Pepper suffer. I'm on the verge of tears and feel so alone.

    This is no quality of life for her. I don't have the funds to be vet jumping.
     
  11. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    This is a bad time, with the Christmas holidays many people are away! Unfortunately our cats don't choose their time to our convenience...

    Getting conflicting information is hugely stressful, particularly when you don't yet know enough to make an informed decision and know who to trust. It is possible your vet is adjusting her response to how Pepper is doing. I am not familiar with the insulin you are using, but the reason to "not shoot" when the cat isn't eating is that we don't want to risk the cat's BG becoming too low. It seems your kitty's numbers are so sky-high that the vet is considering that you should still shoot, because the risk of her coming down to a dangerous level from where she is is quite low. That would be my interpretation in any case.

    Do we have any hypothesis as to why she is not eating? Is this something she does regularly? Could she be ill with something else (pancreatitis?) Could she have ketones? (I don't know if you have stix to test at home; I also am not sure if ketones will make a cat puke or not). Do you have anything in her medicine cabinet against nausea?

    Other than not eating and puking, how is she?

    (Sorry if you mentioned answers elsewhere. Also are you home now, or did you have to leave for work?)
     
  12. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    Even if the yellow sticky says to wait an hour to make sure she doesn't throw up? Even if the yellow sticky says to wait at least a week before switching doses?
     
  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    My vet initially told me don't shoot under 200, and that's our recommendation for new folks here too. Once there's data you can though. My cat was 184 this morning and she got her 2.5 units. You can see that got her to a nice 91. I shoot my cat any time her preshot is over 125.
    Of course I would never recommend that to someone only a few months in.

    Now if your cat was only like 200-240 preshot and not eating I would say skip the shot... But with numbers over 500 she needs that insulin. She's never been close to being too low so it would have been ok. If it really makes you nervous to shoot her without food you could always reduce it slightly to say 2.25... But at these levels that's not really necessary.

    You may be alone there with her, but you are not alone. You have a community of people, with lots of experience and support for you... Who care for the well being of cat. It is a marathon you have to run one step at a time.
     
  14. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I'm at home today, which this is making it very convenient for this to be happening. The vet said she checked her pancreas. (Per the SS lab results) She said no pancreatitis. Pepper has always been a puker. At her last vet visit she had trace ketones. She was doing great the last couple days and then BAM, she hits this wall.....AGAIN.
     
  15. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I use a pet meter, so that's where the 300 came from. (The sticky for Novulin N and the vet agreed). I need an insulin that lasts longer, not one that drops her so drastic and makes her sick and then shoots right back up..... the way Novulin is seeming to do.
     
  16. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    I'm not a specialist in ketones but I'd say that's another argument for giving her a shot. How far behind schedule are you? If you're at home, you can keep an eye on her levels if you're worried she may drop too low without food. But she has enough sugar in her blood to keep a load of insulin going for a while, methinks. (And what @JanetNJ says above.)

    Regarding no food => no shoot, just stumbled upon this old thread on the topic: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/some-bad-advice-for-newbies.9070/
     
  17. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Has she eaten at all today? Now that you mentioned she had trace ketones I'm a bit concerned they may have increased. Do you have any ketone reading strips?
     
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  18. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    Definitely makes sense! She might be stuck on the trampoline.

    Regarding the puking and ketones: I remember reading somewhere that even trace ketones required calling the vet to determine course of action. Be on the lookout for other signs: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Ketoacidosis -- I would definitely give her at least a reduced dose as you are there to monitor.
     
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  19. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm inclined to agree. How long ago was her shot usually?
     
  20. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    At her vet appointment a week ago, the vet gave her a appetite stimulant, an anti nausea injection and Sub q fluids. She was fine for the next week, until today.
    Today I am home from work for the holiday (I am usually gone 11-1/2 hrs a day) and am able to monitor her for myself. She would not eat this morning. She did not receive her shot because that's what I thought I was supposed to do per the sticky for beginners guide to Novulin N.
    I gave her her appetite stimulant and she ate but she is already past mid cycle, so I am waiting until 6pm to give her her shot.
     
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  21. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    @Peppersmom72 not sure how much you know about ketones. When the body cannot feed its cells using insulin and sugar, it converts fats to ketones. In small amounts that's not a disaster, but if it goes on, the amount of ketones in the blood build up too fast for the body to flush them out, and everything starts falling apart.

    This means a cat with either really not enough insulin or not enough food is at risk. In your case Pepper's high BG levels tell us that as a general rule her cells are not being fed correctly. Insulin brings BG into the cells. So even if she's not getting food right now, she still has a pile of BG floating around that insulin can use to carry into her cells. It can only help her feel better. In the worse case scenario, if she starts to drop, you can try feeding again (she might be hungrier, they tend to get hungry just as we do when their sugar drops), or if worse comes to worse, get some honey into her.
     
  22. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    I don't know how much you can play with timing with the insulin you're giving her, but can you move the shot a little earlier?
     
  23. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I was able to get her to eat after I gave her an appetite stimulant. She has always had nausea, vomiting and constipation issues since she was a kitten. I have ketone strips but I cannot get a urine sample from her. I've tried everything.
     
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  24. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Can you push up the shot by an hour or two? Like do it at 4pm tonight and the 5 am tomorrow morning then 6pm tomorrow night to get her back on schedule?
     
  25. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I don't get home until 5:45pm, so she gets her shot after she eats between 6pm-630pm
     
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  26. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    My hypothesis would be that if it's an "in and out" insulin (like vetsulin) that doesn't act very long (I think I saw you say that) and her numbers are so high anyway, you could do the shot an hour or two earlier, and either she'll have a longer than 12h wait until tomorrow morning, or you can split the difference and do the shot 30 minutes or an hour earlier tomorrow morning, if your schedule allows. (This is just a suggestion, see if you're comfortable with the idea.)
     
  27. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    But today you're home before, right? You would be there to shoot earlier? Looks like @JanetNJ and I have the same idea.
     
  28. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    There are ketone blood meters of getting the urine is impossible.

    Some folks have success by putting bunched up plastic wrap where the cat pees in the box, or by using along handled laddle to catch it mid stream.
     
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  29. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I can do that. But won't that make her last longer for her pm shot tomorrow?
     
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  30. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    Sorry if this is included in the "everything", but did you try:
    - sticking the stick in wet litter to see if it affects the reading => you can then stick it in the pee-wet litter when she's just done
    - tried the thing with the spoon to collect pee? (won't work for getting a sample now as this takes time to habituate the kitty)
    - last ditch: can you slip a piece of paper under her when she's peeing? (probably useless, I'm suspecting you have troubling approaching her when she's peeing)
     
  31. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    It will, but at the moment I think what we're most concerned with is how high she has been since her last shot, and ketones. Better to split the difference, I'd say. Think of the time between the last shot and this one, and this one and the next...
     
  32. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I've tried the plastic wrap and the ladle. She is such a modest bathroom kitty. She refuses to go if I try to get under her with a ladle and I can't get the plastic wrap to work with clumping litter. I even tried to throw ketone strips in the litter box with hopes that she would pee on one of them, but she just kicks them aside.
     
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  33. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    She's stubborn
     
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  34. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Care Touch Ketone Testing Kit - Blood Glucose and Ketone Meter w Strip Ejection, 10 Ketone Blood Test Strips, 10 Lancets, Lancing Device, Carrying Case for Diabetics and Ketogenic, Paleo, Atkins Diet https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076VRLBWK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_Q8OqAbRN7S3VN
     
  35. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    .....and if she doesn't eat or vomits, this won't affect her BG's going too low mid cycle with insulin?
     
  36. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    She has eaten today, right? How low does she usually go, and when? Would you be able to get a test or two in on the way or around that time to make sure she's not getting into trouble? (I don't have that much experience but looking at your spreadsheet it seems kind of unlikely she would soar down.)

    Do you have "higher carb" food that you can give her if you see that she is heading downhill "too fast" for your liking?
     
  37. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    Yes, she ate 4 hrs after she was supposed to get her insulin but not until after I gave her an appetite stimulant.

    Yes, I have some higher carb "delectable bisque lickable treat" that I can pour on her food or just syringe feed her if needed. I also have karo syrup, maple syrup, etc. for emergencies.

    She typically eats every 4 hours unless she wants more, then I give it to her. I was told if a diabetic kitty is hungry to feed them.
     
  38. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    But the question remains....... do I still try to work with this insulin that only give a nadir for 1-2 hours or do I get the vet to switch her insulin and start over?
    Does any one have any experience with vetsulin? ( I heard that was made for cats)
     
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  39. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    Just to clarify: I can see the data in your spreadsheet, the questions above are the questions you need to ask yourself to figure out how you feel comfortable dealing with this (at least that's how I'd approach it).
     
  40. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    Yep, definitely!
     
  41. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    So, a switch is a good idea or not? Vetsulin is more affordable for my household
     
  42. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    So, I tried out vetsulin initially. If you look at Quintus's spreadsheet, the first two curves before Lantus are vetsulin. My vet wasn't happy because Quintus wasn't spending enough time under 350. He says that what counts is not how far down you go, but how long you stay under a certain threshold (he likes 350, you'll find other values).

    So if you have a cat who tends to do a sharp dive down and up on a certain insulin, that would indicate that insulin is not a good choice for the cat.

    Vetsulin is the only one that was "designed" for cats, but it doesn't mean it's the best choice (though lots of vets are familiar with it). When I read up on diabetes and found guidelines and stuff, most of the time glargine (=Lantus) was recommended as the first choice for cats.

    Here are two links:
    - this one is in French, but you can try and google translate it, it's written by a vet who was Chair of Internal Medicine at one of our two veterinary teaching hospitals in the country: http://www.vetup.com/articles-veterinaires/82-royal-canin-alimentation/331-diabete-sucre-felin
    ETA here is the google translate link: https://translate.google.com/transl...on/331-diabete-sucre-felin&edit-text=&act=url
    - this one is in English, the IFSM consensus guidelines for diabetes: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1098612X15571880

    They're technical articles but I think they lay down things quite well.
     
  43. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Well, actually, Prozinc is specifically designed for feline diabetes and is the first protamine zinc insulin with FDA approval for diabetic cats.
     
  44. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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  45. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    @Peppersmom72: how are you feeling at the moment? any better than when you posted?
    My bad! I think Pepper has been on prozinc before though, crazy amounts (or am I confusing with another kitty)
     
  46. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    I think you are confusing her with someone else. She was just diagnosed in Nov, and I believe she has been on Novolin N.
     
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  47. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    @Peppersmom72 Do you have to work today and if so can you access this site while at work? The thread might get pretty long.
     
  48. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    She's here today, cf previous exchanges
     
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  49. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    Summary for those catching up: didn't eat this morning, didn't shoot, ate four hours later with appetite stimulant, we're roughly mid-cycle now, discussion is about whether to shoot an hour or two early tonight, and also whether to ask the vet to switch insulins. There was some talk in there about ketones and puking cats.
     
  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    For general information, Vetsulin was originally developed for canine diabetics. (It's marketed under the brand name Caninsulin in the UK.) Dogs don't metabolise insulin as quickly as cats so they get better duration on it. For the majority of cats Vetsulin/Caninsulin doses tend to poop out around the +8 mark. That said, there are some cats who do OK on this insulin - even achieving remission in some cases.

    As noted above, Prozinc was developed for feline diabetics:

    http://www.bi-vetmedica.com/species/pet/products/prozinc.html


    Mogs
    .
     
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  51. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    You can use a non absorbent litter, like aquarium gravel or even dry beans in her litter box. Just rinse as needed between ketone tests and reuse for the next test.
     
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  52. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    If Pepper were my cat:

    - I'd get hold of the vet as soon as they're open and try to get an anti-nausea treatment that I could administer at home as needed, e.g. generic ondansetron (the branded Zofran version is hideously expensive but the generic is much more affordable - it's a human medication so if your vet doesn't carry the generic you could ask for a written Rx and get it filled at a regular pharmacy. Ondansetron's an anti-emetic so it could help with both vomiting and also reluctance to eat due to nausea. If you tackle the nausea the appy stimulant might not be needed, and Pepper might eat more steadily and predictably for you.

    - I'd look to switch to an insulin known to typically have a longer duration in cats, i.e. Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc. Looking at Pepper's spreadsheet, for a Novolin kitty she's getting a relatively good duration for this insulin type with nadir around the +6 mark but it's completely petered out by the time the next dose is due. Word of caution: You might end up with similar results on Vetsulin. Also, the Novolin N is producing relatively wide swings in BG between the PS and nadir levels. That can make some cats feel really cruddy. An insulin with a 'gentler' action profile might even Pepper out and make her feel a lot better in general (for Saoirse the difference between being treated with Vetsulin (aka Caninsulin) and Lantus was like night and day; she was getting wide swings on the former and it made her miserable most of the day.

    Pepper's not on a high dose of insulin at the moment. If you're in the US and you were to order Lantus or Levemir from Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada it would make those choices much more affordable - and possibly comparable to the cost of the Vetsulin. (See the main FDMB FAQ section for more info on ordering from Canada.)

    I don't know whether this might be of a little bit of comfort to you: looking at Pepper's PMPS values over the last few days they're starting to show a bit of a downward trend, and that's encouraging.

    I feel for you: I fully understand the frustration and fear that comes from feeling all alone with FD. Please know that you're not alone; we're all here for you and we'll do all we can to help and support you both.

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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  53. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I'm here. I'm trying to take this all in. The vet still hasn't called to talk to me. I'm still wondering on whether or not an insulin change will be good for Pepper, since what I am getting from here is that Vetsulin poops out around +8. That sounds like what we are dealing with now with Novulin. I just can't spend an arm and a leg on insulin and vet visits. I am a one income household supporting 3 people. I was just looking at being able to help Pepper on a budget and so far that doesn't seem possible.
     
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  54. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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  55. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I've asked the vet at her last appointment and again on the phone right before Christmas, and she will not give me an anti nausea medication.
     
  56. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Re cost of insulin, it is worth keeping watch on the FDMB Supply Closet for offers of Lantus/Levemir.

    Please don't lose heart: the early days can be so tough but with a little time you'll hopefully get all your ducks in a row re cost of food/supplies, etc.

    :bighug:


    Mogs
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  57. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I'm genuinely curious about this: did the vet give you any reason(s) why she won't prescribe anti-nausea meds?


    Mogs
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  58. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    No, after her appointment the vet tech came in to give Pepper her anti nausea shot and to give me a prescription for the appetite stimulant, I then asked am I getting a prescription for anti nausea meds and she said "no, she doesn't need it". Then I called before Christmas and told her that she was throwing up and not eating and I asked again if I could get a prescription for anti nausea and she just ignored the question and started talking about how we should raise her dose to 2.5 from 2.o. And not to do a curve until the weekend of New Years eve.

    Then she stated that should would like in the near future to do an ultrasound to see if something else is going on (why she is vomiting). There goes more money. $350 for an ultrasound.
     
  59. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Also are there any other vets at the practice? If yes, could you ask for a second opinion on treatment for the eating difficulties from one of them?

    (Brainstorming here.)


    Mogs
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  60. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    :mad::mad::mad:

    [Insert very rude words here.]

    Vets like that are a total head-wreck. I've been in that position myself and it makes me SOOOOOOOOOOO ANGRY to see it happening to other people and their little ones!!!! I'm so sorry that you're not getting adequate and appropriate veterinary support; makes things a lot harder - unnecessarily.

    Have another :bighug:.


    Mogs
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  61. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    There are not any other vets in the practice and the vet seems like she is genuinely caring. It seems like the vet tech intervenes. Also, because of being a new sugar mom, when I call they say "Oh she's busy, she'll call you back" and I feel like I'm pushed aside. Thank God there has never been a REAL emergency.
     
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  62. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    Now with everything being said, should I still give her her shot early tonight and should I still give her the shot if she doesn't want to eat or throws up her food?
     
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  63. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    Regarding the ultrasound: when important/expensive tests or procedures are in the possible future, the question I always ask is "how will the outcome of this test change our course of action". What is she hoping to find (or not) with an ultrasound? (350 sounds expensive, it's about 100 here and Switzerland is supposed to be twice as expensive as everywhere else). What might happen without the ultrasound is that one has to guess certain things, and "treat and see", and possibly be treating "for nothing". So it depends what the treatment is, and how you feel about it. I'd say it would be an interesting discussion to have priori to the test. And also: you're having trouble getting the vet on the phone (which can be expected), but she seems caring, maybe it's worth paying for a consultation (maybe even without the cat) to talk through all these issues.

    Am I right that there have not been any curves done recently? When was the last?
     
  64. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    I would give the shot. Or at least a half-shot, depending on how anxious I am, and whether I feel up to monitoring her post-shot, and sticking out through possibly (but unlikely) low numbers.
     
  65. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

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    I did a curve on 12/9/17 before the increase to 2.5
     
  66. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

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    Ah yes, sorry! So seems the lowest he ever went (measured) was a dip of toes in the blue.
     
  67. donnalea

    donnalea Member

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    Jun 18, 2016
    Pepper's spreadsheet does look a lot better now than when you started. She has some yellows and blues. That's an improvement. If you are serious about changing insulin, you might consider Prozinc. It was made just for cats. A vial should last a long time. When my Callie was on 3 units per dose, it would last 3months. I get from a mail order pet pharmacy. I pay about$130/vial, included shipping. That works out to $43.34/month. You just have to talk the vet into it.
     
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  68. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Just a heads-up that I'm signing off for the night. Hope all goes well with Pepper and you find a decision you're comfortable with. Look forward to catching up with what happened my tomorrow morning.
     
  69. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Thank you very much. I am giving her her shot now. Its an hour and a half early but she needs it.
     
  70. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Well done, congrats!
     
  71. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Thank you. I said to Pepper "come on lets get your shot and feel better" and she immediately came in the kitchen and laid down for me to give her her shot. Then I got kisses on my hand after her shot was given, like she was saying "thanks mommy"
     
  72. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Sending positive vibes for a safe cycle for Pepper.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  73. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    PS: A thought about anti-nausea treatment. Perhaps try the 'scratched record' technique to get an Rx?
     
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  74. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    See now there's your reason to keep chugging along.

    When she throws up is it on an empty stomach... Like bile... Or is it food she's puking
     
  75. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    I'd really suggest a different insulin like Lantus.....If you buy it from Marks in Canada it can be quite affordable.

    One pen ($49.99 + 20 shipping) at 3U twice a day (which is a pretty high dose) would last you 50 days, so about $1 per day, but if you could afford to buy a 5 pack, that's 1500 units for $165 + $25 shipping) ...that would be about .75 cents per day and last you about 250 days.

    If you ended up on less than 3U, it would last even longer.

    Also, if you could get a script from your vet, you could apply to DCIN and we could help you with the insulin.
     
  76. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    If the vet calls me back, I will discuss whatever insulin would be best for Pepper. Long lasting and easy on her system. That would allow me to be away for 11-1/2 hours a day and not have to worry so much. That's why I asked which insulin would possibly be easiest on her little body.
     
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  77. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Its her food. I've tried spreading it around, raising her bowl, adding extra water, etc...
     
  78. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Whats the "scratch record" technique?
     
  79. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    We might call it the "broken record" or "squeaky wheel". ;)
     
  80. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    What Kris said. :)

    .
     
  81. PussCatPrince

    PussCatPrince Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2017
    Aw. She has a lovely face and you're the best Pusscat Mum.
    I'm not even going to try to make suggestions as I'm far too new myself. You 'n Pepper hang on in there with this lot here in this group.
    They'll get you sorted & help you train the vet .

    Anyway. I think you need a hug. :bighug: So very hard.
     
  82. Teresa & Buddy

    Teresa & Buddy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    The Supply Closet has different ones selling insulin, some sell Lantus. I think that sometimes you can get 1 Lantus pen at a time. It might be worth your while to take a look and see what you could find.
     
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  83. donnalea

    donnalea Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Just keep calling until he will do anything for some peace and quiet.
     
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  84. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    Just asking over and over. At some point they get tired of you asking and they actually listen and pay attention -- or give you what you want to have peace.

    Hope this cycle went well! Going to see if there is news in another thread.

    Pay attention to what @Chris & China said regarding the "shot cost" of Lantus and possibility to get help from DCIN (Diabetic Cats In Need) if Lantus is out of your budget.

    Lantus vs ProZinc, from what I understand: amongst other things Lantus requires pretty strict 12h shots, ProZinc is a teensy bit more flexible. (Take that into account regarding your schedules.)
     
  85. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    @Peppersmom72 do let us know how things went and are going, once you have news!
     
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  86. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Pepper seems to be doing much better this morning. She's eating like a champ and was very happy to get her am shot. I'm back at work today, so hubby will have to test her mid cycle.
     
  87. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    that's good news!
     
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  88. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Excellent!
     
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  89. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Attagirl, Pepper! More of this please!! (Anti-jinx, anti-jinx!) :)


    Mogs
    .
     
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  90. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    I just wanted to give everyone an update. Pepper's vet has agreed to change Pepper's insulin to Prozinc. She is going to write a prescription so I can order it online for $96, since the vet office charges $170 for a 10ml vial. I'm hoping this will give Pepper better ps numbers and better nadirs.
     
  91. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Welcome to Prozinc land. :cat:
     
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  92. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    I am to pick up her prescription after work and order it from Allivet. I'm sure it won't be until next week before I get it, so I will use the Novulin until then.

    The vet said I have to start over with Prozinc at .5u.

    Can I go from one insulin to another that fast?
     
  93. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    :D My gut tells me that this insulin will work better for Pepper. But, I remain optimistic and know ECID! lol
     
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  94. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    since novolin is out of the system after a cycle, yes you can start the prozinc right away. I'm surprised she's saying start at .5 and not 1 unit. If it were me I'd say start at 1 since Pepper's numbers are so high, but I'll defer to the expertise of ProZinc users.
     
  95. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I hope the ProZinc works better for you. I think that starting at 1 u is more than safe enough given Pepper's numbers. I suggest you post on the ProZinc forum for advice and also have a look at the yellow info stickies explaining how to use it. :)
     
  96. Stephanie & Quintus

    Stephanie & Quintus Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2017
    This is great news! If you look at the forum list there is one devoted to ProZinc with people there who are experienced with this insulin. I hope it will work better for Pepper!
     
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  97. Lillie

    Lillie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    I have a feeling the Prozinc will work well for you.
     
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  98. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    I would think so as well. 1u is the 'normal' starting dose. Of course, I would rather see someone start too low than too high.. at least the vet has enough sense not to say to start her at 2 or 2.5. :eek:
     
  99. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Yay for this vet!


    Mogs
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  100. Peppersmom72

    Peppersmom72 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Lets hope she keeps to what she says. I have to pick up the prescription after work, and she likes to change her mind on dosages...... so we will see what she says when I pick it up. :p
     

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