Needing suggestions quickly!

My cat, Mini was just diagnosed this week. She was having muscle spasms in her hind legs and found out she had diabetes. She also has IBD. She is already at the point today that she can hardly walk. She seems to be breathing heavier also. Last night I was thinking that she may have to be taken to be euthanized today, as she's so sick. I found this site yesterday through the IBDKitties group. Has anyone seen a kitty bounce back from being this sick so quickly? If there's a chance I want to try, but I can't bear to see her to continue the way she is. It's breaking my heart!

 

Forgot to add that I saw that methylcobalamin is good for neuropathy, but last night could only find one that is cherry flavored and wasn't sure she could have that. She needs something quick. She is so thin also. As I said I don't want her to suffer, but if there's a chance I want to try. My vet closes in an hour and a half.

 

I'm so sorry your Mini has been diagnosed with diabetes and isn't doing well. It's been almost two years since my Hannah was diagnosed. At that time, she was sick, not eating, and experiencing problems with walking and jumping. I also thought about having her euthanized. Watching what she was going through tore me apart... I could hardly function. However, I couldn't give up on her without even trying, so we changed her diet, started her on ProZinc insulin, found this message board and the wonderful people who reside here, asked tons of questions, and gave it all we could. We're still struggling with the diabetes, but I can tell you she's so much improved. I'm so glad I didn't give up on her. I say there is always a chance. But it won't happen overnight, so patience is a major requirement. If you think you and Mini are up to it, go for it. Hugs and best wishes.

 

Thank you. I'm just so worried because she can't even walk at the moment. I started insulin just this past Tuesday, but she has went from muscle spasms to not walking in this short time.

 

Please don't give up on Mini. There is a steep learning curve and it will be overwhelming, but stay the course and the long road will seem so worth it.

First, please get supplies to home test. You don't want a hypo on top of all she's going through. Look through and read all the stickys in this site.

Second, start slow on the insulin. Please set up a SS so all the members can "see" at a glance what she's doing on the insulin.

Third, see if you can fin the unflavored methylcobalamin check with your vet.

Also, if she is not eating well, make sure you have a feeding syringe, I think your vet can help you.

I have read about so many sugar cats that were as sick or stickier than yours pull through and live years.

I will tag a few members to help and give suggestions further

@Critter Mom @MrWorfMen's Mom @manxcat419 @Marje and Gracie @Tuxedo Mom @Chris & China @Squalliesmom

 

Diego was in bad shape when he was diagnosed. No neuropathy, but the day before I brought him he spent the majority of the day sleeping in the corner of the closet which he has never done before. That night he tried to jump onto the bathroom counter (to ask for fresh running water to drink) but he missed and fell flat on the floor. I couldn't catch him in time and broke down crying. It really does eat at your heart. The next morning I found out he was diabetic. He had lost 2.5 pounds in two months and his hair was falling out. His glucose was WELL beyond renal threshhold and he was urinating every 30 minutes to one hour. Drinking constantly. I thought he was in renal failure before he was diagnosed.

It's amazing how quickly they can come back to life with the right treatment. In two months within starting insulin and being on a species-appropriate low carb wet diet, he has put all of his weight back on, he has long flowing orange hair again and his personality is coming back. It seems grim right now but do your best to fight for her. If after you've exhausted all of your efforts and she still has a miserable quality of life, that's the time to consider euthanasia as being the kindest option. You aren't at that point yet.

 

I have used Methylcobalamin for Hannah. I think it helped somewhat. Others here have had very good luck with it. Again, it takes time to work and it won't happen overnight. However, I've found that the more time Hannah spends in good numbers, the better her mobility. Here's a link to a choice of Methyl B12 that is recommended for kitties. Here's another. We've used both with equal success. Neither contain sugar. Are you monitoring Mini's blood glucose? An inexpensive human meter and test strips can be purchased at Walmart, for example. You don't necessarily need a pet-specific meter. We recommend that you test your kitty before giving insulin. That way, you'll know that it's safe to give her recommended dose and you won't be giving too much insulin. Giving too much insulin can cause a kitty's blood glucose to drop to dangerous, life-threatening levels. What insulin does Mini receive?

 

Thank you. I am home testing. My vet didn't have the methylcobalamin and suggested I look over the counter. She was already getting B12 injections because of her IBD, but that is a different form of B12. I was hoping to get the methylcobalamin quickly and not have to wait to order it, but it doesn't look like that will happen. She has a great appetite, but she can't even sit up to eat today, so I'm holding her up to eat. Her muscle spasms are so bad, as she's lying down she keeps kicking her legs in the air. She is so thin from the IBD, I'm afraid she doesn't have the reserves to fight this. I'm just sick about it.

 

I am so sorry to hear this is happening!

What are her numbers looking like?

 

Once the insulin starts to help her BG levels and she starts gaining weight you'll feel better. It's tough seeing our fur babies suffer.

 

They gave me Vetsulin and I am testing at home. Do you know if the over the counter cherry flavored methylcobalamin would harm her until I get the other ordered?

 

Since I started testing Tuesday, her low was 329 and her high was 522.

 

About 10 years ago I adopted Mario as an untreated diabetic cat. When I first saw him I thought he was a basket case. He was very thin and could not walk well at all. Shortly after I adopted him he was very sick and and had surgery for a block bile duct. During the surgery they took biopsies and those showed he had small cell intestinal lymphoma. He started chem with oral Leukeran and had over two years of a good life until the lymphoma finally go him. I do not regret the adoption and treatment

 

I don't want to say it won't hurt her, it may spike her BG but I've always read here to treat other problems then the insulin can be adjusted. So, to make you feel like you're doing something, if Mini were mine I would start it, but it would definitely be trying to get some other here ASAP.

 

Larry, do you think the cheery flavor will hurt Mini?

 

Would it be possible to test her right now, just to rule out a hypo episode?

 

Yes, please test her! After you test her can you go onto your thread and at the prefix change it to 911. That will get members attention fast!

 

I can test her now, but she has been doing the leg kicking since this started. Other than the leg kicking, she can hardly move.

 

Please test... we will be waiting for your post.

 

She tested 154. She hasn't eaten very much today. Appetite has been good.

 

How long since her injection?

 

Okay, thanks, Susan. Good number, so we can at least rule out a hypo.

 

You must make sure the B12 supplements have NO sweeteners in it, especially xylitol, which is posionous for a cat.

ETA: "When cats ingest xylitol, it can prompt a sudden release of insulin, resulting in hypoglycemia. Common signs of xylitol consumption include vomiting, lethargy, dizziness, seizures and coma. A cat that eats xylitol may even get liver failure and die."

 

Last night at 9. Didn't do one this morning because she didn't eat. When she finally ate it was much past the time she usually gets her injection.

 

Susan, did you see Tuxedo Moms reply!

 

She's at 154 at + 12?

 

@Tuxedo Mom what do you think?

 

With so little data available my suggestion would be to skip this shot. You need to have a good amount of data including all preshot levels and at least one mid cycle test in order to know what the insulin is doing.

For newer diabetic it is suggested not to shoot if the number is under 200 until you have good data.

 

She is concerned about Mini not being able to move and she's kicking and having muscle spasms.

 

Susan, what was her pre-shot number last evening at 9:00 PM? How much insulin did you give?

 

Yes this is the label of the B12 I bought just in case I could use it.

 

Yes this is the label of the B12 I bought just in case I could use it.

Her number last night was 374 and she gets 1.5 units.

 

That almost sounds like something neurological. If the glucose is currently at 154 then a hypo is not the problem, but without knowing the numbers it is hard to say.

How long has your kitty being unable to move and having spasms? Is there any chance Mini got into something..plants, cleaners, etc etc. If this is going on for awhile I would suggest a trip to the vet

 

Susan what type of insulin are you using and your dose?

 

Her vet says she has neuropathy but it came on fast. I gather Susan took Mini in for muscle spasms and that's when she was diagnosed. Does it sound like neuropathy? Or something her vet is not looking at?

 

Neuropathy generally is a progressive problem. Muscle spasms are not necessarily associated with neuropathy. Is the kitty eating, peeing, pooping, drinking normally??

 

If I read correctly she has been getting B12 injections from the vet?

 

Vetsulin 1.5 units

 

Yes, for the IBD and the vet said the B12 was a different form and was not the same kind for the neuropathy.

 

When is the last time you had blooodwork done? Low potassium can cause muscle weakness.

 

What kind of food are you feeding?

 

She has been doing all normally, and she has been at the vet twice this week. They did say neuropathy because she was walking flat footed and having the spasms. She has even been pooping quite normally which is rare given her IBD.

 

Had she been progressively walking strangely for a while, or did it come on suddenly. If it came on suddenly it may not be neuropathy.

 

Yes I've been doing them at home once a week, but it's the form of b12 that is used for IBD, not the methylcobalamin.

 

B12 injectable is the cyanocobalamin form which works fine for IBD or for neuropathy. Cyanocobalamin in oral form is not absorbed properly in kitties which is why Methylcobalamin is used when giving it orally

 

Is Mini doing any better?

 

This is a video showing the progression on neuropathy
Tootsie's neuropathy

 

She eats Fancy Feast pates.

 

I don't think this question was answered yet and as Larry said low potassium can cause muscle weakness and other symptoms.

 

She's had blood work several times in the last year because of her IBD. The latest was this past Monday when she was diagnosed with diabetes. The potassium is the Na/K, correct? It was in the normal range, 34.

 

OK Thank you for the information. We are all brainstorming right now. Did you view the video on neuropathy that Mom of two felines posted? Is this how Mini is walking?

 

I know she hasn't gotten into anything. She has been a little weak in her hind legs off and on, but I attributed it to the amount of weight she has lost due to the IBD. But the leg twitching or spasms and the walking more flat footed and having trouble walking has gotten progressively worse since Monday.

 

I haven't yet. I've had to carry her to the litter box a couple of times in between posts.

 

How often is Mini getting B12 shots from the vet? The B12 injections should help with the neuropathy as well as IBD but it can take quite awhile to show results.


ETA I don't know if the dose given for IBD is the same dose as what would be given for neuropathy??

 

She was walking like the video, but is pretty much just dragging her legs now, if she can even get herself up. She's really not doing that now.

 

I give her .5 ml once a week. The vet had me increase that from .2 about 2 months ago, because her IBD was still so bad, and she had become anemic from taking chlorambucil (generic Leukeran).

 

How long has she been walking like that?

 

OK I looked up what Tuxie was getting for his neuropathy and it was .5ml once a week for 6 weeks then monthly after. I started using the Methylcobalamin oral daily about 3 months afterwards. If you get a chance look at the video on neuropathy. It was taken of a kitty with severe neuropathy and if I remember correctly it took about 6 months to get him back to normal. B12 supplementation and good glucose control are both needed to reverse the condition.

 

"
In diabetic neuropathy, nerves in the legs are progressively damaged, leading to tingliness, pain, numbness, and weakness or paralysis. In cats, this often shows first as weak hind legs, progressing until the cat cannot stand on his toes as usual, and walks on his hocks (heels) or sits down more often. This condition is known as plantigrade stance or posture. This article contains a photo of the posture[1].

Jumping becomes difficult, then impossible. Eventually the cats' legs seem to slip out from under them and they become unable to walk. These symptoms are the result of damage to the motor and sensory nerves, but they can usually be reversed with better control of blood sugar and certain dietary supplements.

The symptoms are less common in dogs, but do occur. Many dogs have hind leg weakness when they are first diagnosed with diabetes. This is sometimes the symptom which brings the pet to the vet's office. It's often falsely attributed to "getting older" by the caregiver. What is also known as "diabetic neuropathy"[2] most often affects both rear legs and will progress symmetrically. With treatment and regulation, most dogs also have reversal of neuropathy.

This 1983 JAVMA abstract[3]indicates that both the neuropathy and low blood pressure returned to normal following the control of the diabetes with insulin."


http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Neuropathy

 

I saw that. And oh my, If it takes that long for her she won't make it. I'm carrying her to the litter box and everywhere else right now.

 

I took a look at the ingredients on the B12 supplement you have. It has mannitol, which is an artificial sweetner, but is considered safe for diabetics. You have 5000mcg ( 5 grams) per tablet(capsule) You could try adding this to the food daily and seeing if the extra B12 helps as well.

 

Yes that's why she was getting the injections. But now I think she needs the methylcobalamin worse.

 

But, remember once her BG is under control and the B12 starts she'll gain some mobility.

 

Do you have more data on what the glucose numbers have been like since diagnosis and starting insulin. Getting the glucose levels under control is very important for both the diabetes and the neuropathy,


ETA If you have numbers such as before shot and at X number of hours after shot for any period of time that could be helpful. Vetsulin does not last have a long enough duration in many kitties and a different insulin may be more helpful

 

Thanks. I knew it was a sweetener which is why, along with the cherry flavoring, I was afraid to use it yet. I think I will try it while I wait for the other to arrive. I will order it today.

 

Just diagnosed 5 days ago, so no I don't have a whole lot of data. I'm injecting 2×/day, so would this particular insulin still maybe not last long enough?

 

I just worry in the meantime, both my husband and I work 2 jobs. And if I would have to take her to the vet everyday for them to watch her, the stress of that would send her into a major IBD flare (she gets horrible diarrhea), and we have that under control at the moment.

 

It is very hard to say how well the insulin is working for Mini. Home testing will give you a lot better insight into that than tests at the vets. Vetsulin is a faster acting, harsher insulin than some of the long acting insulins. This means that it can act fairly quickly and bring the glucose numbers down a fair bit (depending on the kitty) in the first 2-4 hours. Sometimes if the numbers drop too much or too quickly the glucose reading can "bounce" up higher since the body's natural mechanisms see this as a "problem". This means the numbers may be higher again later in the cycle (the time between shots). By testing before injections and then again 2 or 3 hours later, it gives a good idea if the insulin is working and how fast/well it is working. Testing is SO SO important

 

Ok, are you able to breathe easier? It would help tremendously if you would go up to your user name click on signature and add Mini's name, when she was diagnosed with IBD, diabetic, neuropathy, her lab number for the NaK, what her dose is for injectable B12 her, the Vetsulin, and her dose, what she eats and how much. And what you will be giving her for the neuropathy.That way the members can see at a glance the info you have.

 

As I was saying in my post above this, home testing can let you know what is happening with the insulin AND save the stress and cost of taking her to the vet for tests.

 

Please take your cat to the vet before they close!
As much as we would like to help, we cannot diagnose over the internet. Your vet will have a better chance of helping Mini right now.

Please update when you get back. We worry...

 

But, she tested at 154 at +12 and you didn't give an injection because she wasn't eating enough, right?

 

No...that's a test for the ratio of salt to potassium

The test for potassium should be listed under "Potassium" and normal is 3.4-5.6 mEq/L

 

Oh duh, yes I knew that, I did not sleep last night with Mini being the way she is. My brain has ceased to function. Hers was 4.8.

 

How is Mini doing now? Did you contact your vet?

 

Re: Vit B12 (cobalamin)
There are three forms of this vitamin:
cyanocobalamin which is a synthetic form and not very well absorbed and used by the body
hydroxocobalamin
methylcobalamin.
As far as I know (at least in the UK) the form used for injection is hydroxocobalamin (I work in medical field) and good quality oral supplement would be made of methylcobalamin.
I use Doctor's Best Fully Active B12 capsules.
If your cat is receiving an injectable form of cobalamin it should be hydroxy form (but it would be advisible to check with the vet) and it's very good, if you do not wish to get your cat to the vet for injections you could use methylcobalamin capsules 1500 mcg - 2 a day in food.
The injections at the vet might be very expensive as my sister in the US found out (Elizabeth and Gus) but after some talking to the vet she managed to get a prescription and buy it much cheaper. If you would like more details you could contact her via this forum.
Please don't give up on your cat as there is a chance that you can give her more good years with you and this forum is full of most wonderful people who will help and guide you through.
Good luck and I hope you take that chance.
Best regards, love and hugs.
Marlena

 

Oh I understand you don't diagnose. My vet wants to see how she does with the insulin and B12 over the weekend. They didn't seem very optimistic about her outcome. I just knew input from people who deal with this everyday would be helpful. I was given this site by someone on IBDKitties, and their experience with IBD has helped Mini considerably.

 

She has eaten a bit more. Still not up moving around. The vet wants to see how she does over the weekend with all her meds and injections. Not very optimistic, however.

 

Susan,
sorry to hear that vet isn't very optimistic but you never know.
I hope you will have a better night tonight and don't forget to look after yourself, if you feel better everything will be easier for you.

 

Thanks. I do my own B12 injections at home. It wasn't very expensive, as they sold me a bottle of it and I buy the syringes. The problem with the injectable form is it won't help with the neuropathy, so I need to switch to the methylcobalamin.

 

Susan, sorry you are having such a time right now. We understand that you want Mini better now. We have all been in that place. It does take time, it's not an overnight fix. Once blood sugar starts to get better so does the neuropathy. The methylcobalamin will also take some time to show improvement. I use Zobaline, Smokey wasn't as bad as the video but he did fall over twice when trying to stand. I started giving it twice a day and saw small improvement in a few weeks. I now give once a day. He is strong, blood sugar so much better but still not regulated, long term diabetic, currently has pancreatitis, did I mention he turns 18 this month.

If you and your husband can manage and willing, it is so worth what you are going through right at this time. And yes you will get angry, pissed off, tired and want to give up. Then you have a day where Mini is curled up next to you purring away, an easy day of walking, and blood sugar better even if it's just for a day, shows interest in a toy and for now it will be rare but you will be so excited. You know you will keep doing what it takes.

 

Others please weigh in, I think you can do both.

 

I know it will take time. I'm more than willing, I'm just worried about being able to help her since she can't move around. I don't know what we'll do when we're both at work if she can't get moving. We have already put in tons of time trying to get her IBD under control. She is a fighter! Thanks for your and everyone else's kind words!

 

For some reason, I didn't get notified of the tag but saw Susan in the IBD FB group.

Susan...with all this additional info, I agree with Jill. I think she needs to see a vet and if your vet won't see her, I'd go to an ER. If she were my kitty, I wouldn't wait out the weekend like this if the vet could answer some questions and help determine what the issue really is. She has so much going on that can interrelate and as Jill said, we are not vets here.

Please let us know how she is.

 

My vet saw her, but did want to wait and see her again Monday. The closest ER vet is 45 minutes away, and I simply can't afford to go there today. I had a cat diagnosed and then died from cancer last week. From all of his testing, and now Mini's testing and supplies this week I have no more money. I hope the things I'm doing will help her in the next 2 days.

 

I'm so very sorry about your kitty. I understand this has to be so very hard emotionally, too.

 

Hi Susan,

I'm sorry to hear that Mini isn't feeling very well. I've nothing to add to what others have posted but I am saying prayers and sending healing thoughts for Mini - and some for you. I really feel for you.


Mogs
.

 

Oh wow, you've been hit so hard, all at once! I sure hope everything works out for the best.

 

How is Mini doing today? Sending prayers and hugs

 

She's eating and purring, just not able to move. The spasms in her legs were better this morning, but I just got home from work and they've gotten to be like yesterday.

 

Did you start giving the B12 supplement? It may or may not help right now, but since you can't get to see the vet right away it can't hurt. Is her breathing still seem heavier than normal?

ETA Have you been able to check Mini's glucose levels today?

 

Breathing is about normal for her today (she has asthma too), her glucose was 190 at 8:30 this morning. Since the methylcobalamin I found had the flavoring I decided to just go ahead with her regular B12 injection that is due to be given this evening.

 

The glucose level is not too bad. It would be really helpful if you could set up a spreadsheet...or have someone here help you set one up. You can record the preshot numbers, the dosing and tests done in between shots. This will give a much clearer picture of how well Mini is responding to the insulin and the dose.

 

Here are the instructions for setting up a spreadsheet. If you are as techie-less as me you may need someone to help: (I did )

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

 

Thanks I will try to get that done soon. I work at both of my jobs tomorrow and have too much to catch up on at home tonight. I appreciate the help.

 

Sending more prayers and healing vibes for Mini and some s for you.


Mogs
.

 

Sending best wishes and hugs for you and Mini