New- 9Lives canned cat food... updated carbohydrate/nutritional chart

Back in April I started a Post/Thread about 9Lives canned cat food-

Reference link-
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/9lives-meaty-pate-canned-cat-food-carbohydrates.138745/

At that time I noticed that the packaging and the actual wet food consistency of 9Lives changed. I had concerns that the carbohydrate counts may have also changed. I contacted 9Lives and they sent me a PDF file of the nutritional levels (Typical Analysis), including carbohydrates, for all the 9Lives Canned Cat Food (they now have 3 kinds- Meaty Pate, Tender Morsels and Hearty Cuts).

From this I put together a spreadsheet- calculating the full profile for protein, fat, and carbohydrate calorie percentages of all the 9Lives canned cat foods. A lot of the carbohydrate numbers look very good (low).

Many thanks to ‘BJM’ and ‘Elizabeth and Bertie’ for helping me put this together- I couldn’t have done it without them!

This data can/should probably be used instead of the old/outdated data (for 9Lives) in the Cat Info chart.

Since Friskies is no longer making their Special Diet- I’ve been feeding all my cats (one is diabetic, Derek) more and more 9Lives- 2 cans of 9Lives for every 1 can of Friskies. I have a small stockpile of the Special Diet (maybe a month’s worth)- once that’s gone- it’ll mostly be all 9Lives (and a little Fancy Feast- which is much more expensive). By the way- I’m feeding 10 cats.

How many of you are using 9Lives?

Hope this is useful.

Link to the 9Lives updated carbohydrate/nutritional Spreadsheet/chart-

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Udpe8S14UpY7wluRUu9FWdgiPGk-2hdvEtHQHSUxGH0/pubhtml

 

You might send the update info to Dr Pierson of Cat Info.

 

That's a good suggestion- I will try... but... this is what her site says about receiving email-
'No individual advice or further explanation, for any reason, will be provided via email.'

 

And Thanks again BJM! Much appreciated

 

Hi John,

Great job on the 9 Lives food spreadsheet. It might be an idea to make a note of the date the information is valid from somewhere in the sheet so that anyone referring to the info will know how current it is.

BTW, although I'm not in the US I try to get some sort of general idea of foods that are good for diabetic kitties in that part of the planet so that I can point forum newcomers in roughly the right direction when they arrive here. I note that you are feeding the 9 Lives as a replacement for the sadly-discontinued Friskies Special Diet range. Do you by any chance have an idea of the phosphorus levels in the 9 Lives range? It could be a help to caregivers of cats with CKD and diabetes to contend with to have an alternative food to suggest.


Mogs
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Hi Mogs,

Thanks for your kind words!

Excellent idea on adding a date reference on the spreadsheet. I will do that (hopefully by tomorrow)- noting both the 9Lives data date and the last spreadsheet edit date.

Yes- the data from 9Lives does include phosphorus values- and it also would be a good idea to add that to the chart as well. Only thing is they express the values as both 'As fed' and as 'Dry Matter'- for example- the 'Super Supper' has a phosphorus 'As Fed' value of 0.35 and a phosphorus 'Dry Matter' value of 1.52. I think we would want the 'As Fed' value- but not sure if it needs to be converted for the spreadsheet? What do you think?

John
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Per Cat Info, you can add 1 ounce of plain protein to 5 ounces of cat food without appreciably disturbing the nutrition profile. If you do that with hard cooked egg whites, per Feline CRF, those have a lower concentration of phosphorus.

 

The dry matter value is the one to go for, John. It's the conventional - and easiest - way to compare phosphorus content across foods. For example, Tanya's Site for CKD kitties gives guidance on optimum phosphorus levels using the dry matter value. As long as the column header for phosphorus values indicates that they're being given as dry matter (DM) values it should be clear enough for caregivers who need to check phosphorus content.

BTW, if you also got DM values for calcium and sodium, they're really helpful to have as well.

Again, great job on the spreadsheet.



Mogs
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Thanks for that...

No problem adding the DM values for calcium and sodium as well...

I should have the spreadsheet updated in the next day or 2... by this weekend the latest.
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Great stuff, John. I hope it will help the people who can't get Friskies Special Diet food any more.

.

 

Hi Mogs,

I reworked the spreadsheet and just tried to upload it- problem is- it's not uploading properly. I had to rotate the text in the header row with the nutrient values vertically- so everything would fit- looks great- in excel- only thing is- google sheets doesn't support vertical text (just found that out)- it converts to horizontal text. Now I'm not sure what to do- I'll have to work thru it- may take awhile- sorry about that! Looks like google sheets is no substitute for excel. Anyway- I'll try to work on it again during the week. Hope all is well with you.

John

 

Chalk it down, John! It was unwieldy to start with but the latest 'enhancements' Google have so generously foisted upon us whether we wanted them or not have made the interface infuriatingly clunky. I've been using spreadsheets for over three decades and I've never come across an application within the genre as head-frellingly poor as Google sheets. It's a royal pain in the fundament.

Perhaps use a column heading with a small font size, using the chemical symbol, and taking up two lines? You can use ALT-ENTER to put a line break into a cell. Something like this:

Ca %
DM

Things are a bit tough with Saoirse and myself at the moment. How are yourself and Derek getting on? Well, I hope.


Mogs
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Hi Mogs,

Hoping you and Sacirse are good!
Other than dealing the the heat, Derek, I and the other cats are good

Finally got that spreadsheet to a point where it readable- it's not perfect- but it's usable (now the google spreadsheet looks good- but when I publish it to the web it drops some of the cell borders). Your suggestion on using ALT-ENTER worked well.

Hopefully folks will find this useful now that it also contains phosphorus, calcium and sodium values. There doesn't seem to be much interest in the 9Lives wet food- not sure why- a lot of it is very low in carbohydrates and it's very affordable. I'm using it for Derek and all my other cats with no issues.

Maybe I'll start a new thread- what do you think?

Here's the new link-

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f2fCxyttT_Ivh_nZyJ1Dm9pIBTzHWLc_okeCuFNjkxA/pubhtml
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I use 9 Lives a lot now, I like FF but it's expensive with 4 cats to feed. I really appreciate your hard work for updating the info on 9 Lives! Most of the Friskies are a little too high for my sugar cat, so 9 Lives and Special Kitty are now on the menu! Thanks heaps!

 

You're welcome. Looks like there's at least 2 of us using 9Lives
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Thank you for this, I am looking to add new flavors to my pantry of low carbs. I appreciate all you hard work!

 

Just so that I am clear, is the % of carbs the number I want to be looking at?

 

Yes- that's correct... the far right column. You're right-the other one is confusing... I think I'll update the other column to say REF ONLY... or something like that... what do you think? That's for picking this up!
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John this is great info - I wish I could feed this!

I can remember seeing Morris the Cat ads years ago but unfortunately this food isn't available in Canada any more

ETA: I take that back. You can order the Super Supper from amazon.ca but it's $9.74 for one 5.5 oz can !!!

 

OK- I updated the chart- hopefully clearing up the confusion between the 2 Carbs columns- Does what I did make sense? Any suggestions if not?
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//

Thanks!

Just bought some from Shoprite at 38 cents a can (sale price when buying four 4-packs)
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Now if I could just get all the cell borders to display in the published chart.

Anyone have any suggestions?
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Dang it! We Canucks get the short end of the low-carb food stick!

That said, I can't imagine how much work went into creating this sheet - I know it will help a ton of people.

 

That's crazy for it to be that expensive!!!

 

Is there any way to attach a word documents?

 

@JohnZ I copy/pasted and got it to work after fiddling with the formatting (not complete, as you can see!) - I'm better in Excel but all I can think of is to clear the formatting in the cells that don't show borders then reapply.

You may also want to reduce your font in the vertical text just a smidgen.

You can see the "published" version if you go to my Genghis SS and to sheet 17

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rOivU1WQrSshBFyvepx0WPYDL6qaIAHQMKtHbYBj88k/edit?usp=sharing

I did kind of the same thing.

 

LOL Rhonda, great minds think alike.

 

Looking better!...

Not sure what I'm doing wrong- I've cleared and reapplied the formatting countless number of times... it just doesn't seem to make any difference.

I may have to maintain 2 Spreadsheets- one with the cell formulas and one copied and pasted (with no formulas)... probably not a big deal... I will work on it again when I get some free time

Thanks again

 

John, what do you think of this?



It's your baby, so I understand if you don't - Just throwing it out there!

 

Not bad- some of the abbreviations may be a bit confusing for folks... but maybe not...?

If push comes to shove- it may be the way to go.

Sure would be nice if published google sheets actually looked like the original google sheets

Thanks for your suggestions!!
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Thanks so much for this. I went right out and got some 9 lives this AM. My cats live it!

 

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And I am out to get some tomorrow. Starting to get frustrated with my choices in the Friskies.

 

Thanks!!!
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Hi everyone... I updated the chart so that all the cell borders are now displayed (for whatever reason- if the vertical nutrient names were made centered justified in the horizontal direction- some of the borders disappeared) ... nothing else was changed. This should be much easier to read now

Please use this new link-

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1f2fCxyttT_Ivh_nZyJ1Dm9pIBTzHWLc_okeCuFNjkxA/pubhtml
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Looks great John! Thanks so much!

 

Very nice.
For visual tracking (helping the eye see) using a slightly thicker line between sections may help.

 

Thank You!

I can't find a way to do this in google sheets... a google search finds a lot of complaints from people saying it's not possible (in google sheets) ... Excel- no problem!... Do you know of a work around?
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I finagle!
Maybe insert a blank column, make it very narrow, and fill it with black. E Voila! A thicker black line.

 

Brilliant!

Updated the chart.

Thanks!
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Thank you so much for creating this spreadsheet. Is it going to be somewhere on this website where we can access it?

 

You're welcome

Not sure if it'll end up on this website... don't know how that happens...?

Meanwhile... use the google sheets link I provided... I don't plan on removing it and will keep it up to date (as necessary).

Thanks again!
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Its looking really, really good in Sheets.
If you want it on this web site, the moderators and maybe Robert, have to approve that.

 

Thanks BJM!

Thant would be fine with me- whatever the folks here find useful...
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Hi Everyone!!!
I cant begin to thank you enough for this...my cat has been diabetic for a year...He was on insulin for 4 months, then was able to go off insulin and he was eating the vet perscribed "purina dm savory selects" @ $50.00 a case! He went back on insulin in August of this year because his bg levels went up again and i still continued with the purina dm because i didnt know any better. As someone who recently became unemployed and money is tight...i cannot afford the DM and did some research and found it wasnt all that great...I have spent Days researching food charts to find the best low carb store bought cat food...but they were all out dated!! Thank you so much for this...i am going to get it today!!

 

I have been using 9 lives pate and fancy feast classics

 

I just read a whole slew of complaints from consumers who bought 9 lives...like cats vomiting, diarrhea and even passing away, people have found maggots in the wet food...has anyone had this problem? Im stuck now because i was going to buy this today!!

 

I've read similar comments about all kinds of foods - dry, wet, high quality, dog, cat, you name it. I believe there are lots of people feeding 9 Lives, Fancy Feast classic pates, and Friskies low carb varieties with great success and I'm sure if you Googled them you would find similar allegations. While I can't say it's impossible, those anecdotes aren't definitive.

 

I have been buying 9Lives for a month or so now and haven't had any complaint. I buy the large 13 oz cans and the 5.5 oz cans. I've also bought it off and on over the last several years and never had a problem.

 

Thanks! I am switching my cat from the pricy vet perscribed "DM Savory Selects" and was looking for the best food for him...i was going to go with the 9 lives meaty pate and the friskies turkey and giblets pate

 

Thanks you!!

 

Thank you for this list!!! I have been giving serious thought to switching to a more affordable food; four cats eating Fancy Feast three times a day adds up to some pretty big $$!!!

 

I have been using the 9 lives for about the last month or so, but have noticed more vomiting from my civie. Probably going back to the Friskies.

 

So i wound up not buying the 9 lives...maybe it was a sign but the pet store in my neighborhood only had it by the case (im trying new food because the perscription DM food is way to $$, so didnt want a case), and 2 other stores didnt carry it...i bought a can of FF Classic Turkey and Giblets and Friskies Pate Turkey and Giblets

 

I have been buying 9 lives for a few years to give my babies their joint medication in and never got any bad cans of food.

 

I only has one bad can of 9 Lives last year. Cookie would not touch it and Patches II and Murfee barfed it up.

 

I have been using 9 Lives for several months now and haven't noticed any problems with vomiting or bad food. It is lower in carbs than most of the Friskies, but if your cat can have food on the higher end of the carbs, 10% being highest, it is fine too. Also I feed Walmart Special Kitty, many are low carbs and my cats actually like it better than the 9 Lives or Friskies. My sugar cat and civies are doing fine with it and it is even cheaper than the 9 Lives. I do add a spoonful of pumpkin to each meal for my sugar cat, helps with loose bowels and constipation, also fills him up more!

 

Make food changes gradually to reduce the risk of GI upsets.

And note that fall is when they do a lot of meat and poultry slaughter. This can change the ratios of ingredients enough that some cats may react as if it were new food, even when the can minimums and maximums are still met.

 

I have been feeding 9 Lives for the last month or so. I have noticed that my civie is doing a lot more vomiting, normally after dinner. But he goes right back to eat more. Not sure what is causing that.

 

I've been thinking about trying the 9 Lives as my kitties will eat Friskies, but they're not really crazy about it. One thing I've noticed is that they're ALWAYS HUNGRY since they've been switched to mostly canned food.

 

Canned food is less calorie dense due to the higher moisture content. You need to feed based on the calories required, not the volume you used to feed of dry.

 

That's kind of what I thought. The thing is, they'll only eat so much at a sitting. If I give any more than a few tablespoons, they end up vomitting. I currently feed them 4 times a day and give a bedtime snack so they let me sleep more than 4 hours at a time! The snack has turned into another full-fledged feeding, so that makes 5 times a day. I do mix about a tablespoon of Evo dry with the civies, but poor Goof and Mouse can't seen to get enough. I think I'll go to Sam's club, get some ground turkey and cook it up. I could freeze it in ice cube try's with some broth and use that for their snacks.

I'm wondering if the reason that food brands like Friskies and such are cheaper is because they contain more water/ broth than the the higher prices "high quality" canned foods? If this is the case, maybe it'd make more financial sense to buy the pricier stuff and only have to feed them 3 times a day.

 

I'm sitting here re-reading the last paragraph of my last post and now I'm thinking, WELL DUH. I guess I'll be hitting chewy.com for some Wellness food, but I ll use up the other first.....

 

Per Cat Info, you can add 1 ounce of plain lean meat or poultry to 5 ounces of cat food, boosting the protein content and reducing the fat and carbohydrate content. Note that Wellness % calories from fat is up around 60%; instead of carbohydrate, they put in more fat. And what a cat needs is quality protein.

Also, check the full vs. drained weight of occasional cans. I have seen some reports of incompletely filled cans. If you find that the drained weight id much less, contact the company and complain. You may get coupons for free product.

 

@Mogmom and Goofus LOL Tammy. I would say to the water content yes, and no. I've seen some very high quality foods that have as much moisture % as Friskies or any of the cheaper canned foods I've fed. But that does explain part of it.

I think another large reason that the high quality foods are more $ and more calorie dense is that bargain brands tend not to use lean muscle for protein. They also don't have 100% named meat sources, which is why a lot of people diss them. And they certainly don't use "human grade" proteins. Think filet mignon versus hotdogs ...

Unfortunately, it's also why many dry foods and some wet foods are using veggies for protein sources - peas are a big one lately.

Anyway, you can't go wrong feeding Wellness - it's an excellent food. Too bad my Genghis won't touch it.

 

Thanks guys. Ya know,I forgot that I used to feed Wellness chicken or turkey just as a snack because with 6 kitties, it was kinda pricey for me. The crew got to where they really weren't too thrilled with it anymore, and they raised the price to $3.29 a can, so I stopped.

I'm going to try going the way of making some of my own to add to their other stuff. If I cook up ground turkey and freeze it in ziploc bags, I can take out enough for a few days a time. I have to try something as I just feel so bad that they're hungry all the time. It sucks to be such a softie sometimes.

 

Do you have a list of the Special Kitty foods with low carbs? I would love to check it out, could be a savings to my wallet, and my guys aren't crazy about the 9 Lives. Also, love your kitty, he's beautiful! Is he a Bengal?

 

It must be different from the Special Kitty in Canada and I have tried and tried to contact the manufacturer but they are like a ghost!

I ended up just looking at all the cans in Walmart and they all contained wheat gluten. Hope it's a solution for you because I've heard of folks in the US feeding it.

 

Hi Lucy, sorry I didn't get back sooner and yes Rupert is mainly Bengal! Squallie (love his name) is a handsome boy too! You can find the carb content, etc. from Janey & Binky's food chart on this site. I will try to paste the link here, but if I fail, you can do this. Main page > Education> Diet > Janet & Binky's Famous Food charts > Canned Food > New Canned Food Table...Special Kitty is at the bottom. Mine seem to like it and it is about $1.48 for the 4 pk of 5.5 oz cans. Here's the link..(if I did it right) Good luck!
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

 

They must use a different formula in Canada, I haven't seen any wheat gluten in the US ones (for now). You could order it online perhaps from Walmart? You might be able to avoid shipping if you can order the food from a US Walmart and pick it up at your local Walmart. Not sure but worth looking into, otherwise the shipping would probably make it too expensive. Good luck Melanie!

 

Thank you! I may be switching over!
I have two Bengals, a brown and orange-y marbled boy, and a silver rosetted little girl, love the breed! My sweet boy is an EG (Early Generation) so sometimes he can be a challenge, lol. He adores Squallie, we call him Khoji's "Papa Squall" !

 

"We call him Khoji's Papa Squall" ...lol that is cute Lucy! I have 3 Bengals, Rupert, Opie and Spooky all from the same litter. They are as different as night and day! Give Special Kitty a try, your kitties might like it and your wallet will for sure.

 

Mine are vastly different in personality, as well., but they aren't related to each other. My boy is a very well-bred F3 and thinks he's above it all, very regal. My girl is a rescue from a hoarding situation, not well-bred and has the health issues that go along with it. She is a little kleptomaniac; she steals things (weird, non-cat items, lol) from all over the house and hides them in her "stash" under my bed. I love them, and my other two, with all my heart, they are all my spoiled babies, and they certainly keep life interesting!

Definitely going to try the Special Kitty, thank you for the info!!!

 

Oh this is so great to see! The Queen was getting very finicky about her food -- wouldn't touch Fancy Feast anymore! She was into Friskies for a minute but has lost interest in that as well. I decided to try out 9 Lives (before I saw this post), and she gobbled it! Very glad to have this additional information now.

 

Thanks CatX4! The tough part is our import laws in Canada for US foods - even now a bunch of US manufacturers are pulling out of Canada because of our crazy rules that are coming into place. Great thought, though, and fantastic that there is another low-carb and budget friendly option for US sugar kitties!

 

Your are welcome Melanie! Too bad about the crazy laws, seems silly when it is only cat food. Might work online still, best of luck to you and Genghis!

 

Good luck with the Special Kitty, hope your babies like it! My three Bengals were rescued from a farm situation, she started with a pure bred Bengal and other farm cats and things got out of control. I adopted all 4 from the same litter, they were all sick with a bad viral infection, had been outside since they were born. I let one go to a friend and the rest stayed with me, and yes, they sure make my life interesting! I also adopted another farm kitty, a tuxedo boy, who had the worse cold I had every seen. I almost called him Snotty Boy! lol He is my silly one and being the youngest likes to pester the Bengal brood. lol

 

Your crew sounds like they are a lot of fun! Thanks again for the heads-up on the Special Kitty, I am definitely going to give it a try, it would be a great help to my budget. My family complains that I spend more $$ on cat food than I do food for them, lol. They are probably right!

 

I have the same problem with my cats acting like they are starving since we switched to canned food. How do you know how many calories they should be getting? My one year old, non- diabetic has started stealing any food and growls when I try to take it away. I've increased him from 1 to 1 1/2 cans once a day, but he still seems hungry. I thought that it was because they were used to free feeding, but maybe I'm not feeding enough.
Peanut 17.5 lbs diabetics OTJ 1 can per day (trying to lose weight) Purina DM canned
Oliver 10 lb non-diabetic, 1 yr old 1 1/2 can per day Friskies Poultry Platter Pate canned
Little Girl 8 lb non- diabetic, outdoor 1 can per day Friskies Poultry Platter Pate canned
They get food divided to twice a day feelings.

 

If they are losing weight, increase by a teaspoon or two.
If they are gaining weight, decrease by a teaspoon or two.
And if their weights are fine, the're playing you!
Cat Info does give some calorie ranges for feeding.

 

What is Peanut's ideal weight? You want to feed the right amount of calories for ideal weight, not actual weight. If he's supposed to be around 10-12 lbs, 1 can a day is about right. If his ideal weight is closer to 13-14 lbs, you'll want to feed 1& 1/4 or 1& 1/2 a can. You can always adjust up or down as his weight stabilizes.

The amount of food you're giving the others looks about right if they're both at their ideal weights--you want to feed the 1 year old a little more than the others because he's going to have a faster metabolism and burn more energy with his higher activity levels. My 1 year old cat is 10 lbs but he gets more food than my 13 year old 12 lb cat because his metabolism is way faster.

So speaking of metabolisms, cats' metabolisms are twice as fast than people's or dogs' (that's why they need 24hr insulins like Lantus every 12hrs), so they really do best eating more frequently than twice a day. I think you'll see them act less hungry if you feed the same amount of food but split it up into 4 or more meals a day (or whatever you can manage). I have a couple of auto feeders, and I freeze food and put it in the feeders when I'm at work during the day, or if I want to go to bed early. I also buy the Fancy Feast appetizers and split one between the two cats in between meals on occasion if they get off their every 6 hours feeding schedule for whatever reason. For example, last Friday no one was going to be home to feed the cats at their 7pm dinner time, so I fed them early at 5pm, then they got the appetizer when I got home at 9pm, and then they ate their 1 am meal at their normal time. They also typically get low carb cat treats once or twice a day.

Also, frequent meals are better for diabetics (especially those OTJ), because the smaller meals don't make the pancreas work quite as hard at each meal.

 

I forgot...the Fancy Feast Appetizers are now called Fancy Feast Purely, because you can now feed them as meals instead of just as a supplement to their regular meals. I still use it as a supplement, though...it would be crazy expensive to feed them as meals.

 

I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to say thank you for posting that link . That info is awesome . My cats eat FF Classic but it gets expensive . I am going to try adding in the 9 Lives ..

 

TRUE THAT.
This chart is great! Thank you so much John, and all this community's combined effort here. I am feeding 6.
Whatta lotta work you all put in.
Thank you!!!

 

Hi John
On this new link, for some reason..Google sheets is sending you an access request for me! I am the one9five5 addy you may be receiving!
Sorry!

 

I usually feed 9 lives but it is hard to get a variety of flavors at my walmart I go to so I grab a few ff classics and mix a little in with the 9 lives sometimes.ff has such small cans that cost a lot so I can't afford to just buy ff only.

 

I know , the FF gets very expensive . I have been using 4 cans per day for two cats and it is a pain . I got a couple cans of the 9 Lives Meaty Pate Chicken and they really like it . So that will help with the cost anyway ..