New cat Ben,New to group

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Benshuman, Oct 3, 2015.

  1. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hi,

    I found a probably teenage cat who seemed to be abandoned and took him to the vet and found out that his is diabetic. His name is now Ben. I just started his insulin today. He did the curve for 3 days at the vet. He may also have kidney failure, but I am waiting a month to get his bloodwork done again, as the vet said he needs time to recover from being near death when I found him. What glucometer is best for him? I was looking at the human ones as well as Alphtrak and there are pros and cons to each one. I wanted to monitor him after the vet does the initial weekly monitoring for a month so that I know he is okay. His story is kind of sad how I found him and I am trying to spoil him rotten to make up for it.

    He was sitting at a door of a building I was in meowing trying to get anyone's attention to help him and then he gave up and laid down in the bushes. I heard the receptionist say they called animal control and knew that if they took him they would have euthanized him. So I went out and found him lying weekly in the bushes meowing and picked him up and took him to the vet. The vet told me he would not have lasted another day as he was severely dehydrated and had an empty stomach with only air and maybe a little pebble in it. He wasn't microchipped at the time either. (I got him microchipped as well even though he will be indoors.) I don't know his entire story only that he was near death, dehydrated, declawed, filled with mats and was dirty and could barley keep his head up. He may have been abandoned from the looks of him, or his owner passed away. I will never know.

    He is gaining weight slowly, he has gained a half pound and I feed him every 2 to 3 hours so he doesn't over eat and get sick. I am feeding him k/d as the vet suggested until I know if he is only a diabetic and doesn't have kidney failure. I am really hoping he doesn't have kidney failure and everything was elevated because he was so dehydrated.


    Ben's Human
     
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  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Bless you for rescuing Ben. He sounds like he is finally a lucky kitty!

    As you read around our site, you'll find we have a successful protocol. We like a mild, long lasting insulin, low carb wet food and we test our cats at home. A vet explains about the food here : www.catinfo.org. We like home testing because the cat is usually stressed at the vet, stress raises blood glucose levels and then doses determined by that testing can be too high once the kitty gets home. We test in the morning and evening to be sure the dose we are going to give is safe and that his levels are high enough to shoot.

    Do some reading and let us know how we can help you and your sweet Ben.
     
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  3. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    How wonderful that you saved Bens life! Such a sad story, but with a new, happy beginning. He is a real cutie too. I'm glad you want to test Bens glucose at home. Most of us here use human meters. While the results are usually a bit lower than the Alphatrack, they do show the highs and lows as well as the basic trends, which will guide you on insulin doses. What kind & how much insulin is Ben on? I see you are feeding the k/d food for his kidneys. I don't know if that's canned or dry, but the canned will help get more moisture into him and that's good for the kidneys. Please keep us posted. Give Ben an extra scritch on the chin from me!
     
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  4. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Welcome, Ben and Ben's Human! Poor Ben, what a terrible time he has been through! He's such a pretty, sweet-looking kitty. So glad you saved him and gave him a home and love. Fingers and paws crossed that he does not have kidney disease!

    I use a Relion meter (human) from Walmart for everyday use, but I have an Alphatrak (pet) meter, as well, which I use to get occasional readings for my vet. A lot of vets prefer that you use a meter designed for pets but ultimately it's up to you. I find the Alphatrak to be less user-friendly but that could be in part because I'm just more used to the Relion. If cost is an issue, the Alphatrak will cost a good bit more to purchase, and the test strips are a lot more expensive, as well.

    Once you choose your meter and get settled into a routine of testing, you might like to check out our spreadsheet. It's handy for charting patterns that you might not otherwise notice, and it's very convenient to have your information and results organized all in one place. It's also almost invaluable for others to view when offering help or advice!

    Don't hesitate to post any time you need assistance. Everybody here is more than happy to help. Good luck, and please keep us posted!

    Lucy
     
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  5. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    You are an awesome bean to rescue Ben and I was crying tears of sadness and then tears of joy for sweet lucky Ben that you are his momma bean now. Welcome to the group and everyone above gave you lots of information for starters. If you decide to go with the human meter (most of us here use them) the Relion Micro or Prime you can buy at Walmart. I was using the Micro and found out that the Prime strips are 1/2 the price which is a great savings! Especially for days you will be testing multiple times. Look over the food chart that Sue linked and find something that is 10% carbs or LESS. A lot of us here are using Fancy Feast Classics(not the gravy lovers ones because they are way to high in carbs) and 9 lives pates and Wellness NO GRAIN. The vet food is very expensive and not necessary as some of them are way to high in carbs. Check out the one your vet prescribes to see where it falls. If you have any other questions, please ask away, that is how we all learned. And Welcome to the forum. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  6. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    PS: Ben is adorable and I love his markings!
     
  7. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Welcome Ben and Ben's Human to FDMB! You have come to the right place for support. There are a lot of caring and experience folks here. You will be given a whole lot of information and at first, it will seem very overwhelming however in a couple of weeks, things will start falling into place.

    Good Reading: This is a must read. It is an excellent 18 page informative document that covers feline health and nutrition. Don't take short cuts and read it all. www.catinfo.org

    Also read other postings and their spreadsheets. You will learn a lot more from others.

    Home Testing: Here, we all home test. It is mandatory to understand how your kitty is reacting to the insulin and the dose. You will want to test before each shot and some additional test in between the 12 hour cycle. Another reason to home test is to keep your kitty safe. Find a place in your home where you will always perform the test and give lots of hugs before and after testing. There are many videos showing you how to test. Here is a picture of where you test on your kitty. http://s106.photobucket.com/user/chupie_2006/media/testingear/sweetspot.jpg.html

    Here is another good link on Home Testing:http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-home-test.htm

    Meters: There are many meters. There is a pet meter called the Alpha Trak2 and human meters. Some use the pet meter because it is what the vets use so the numbers will match up. The meter and strips are expensive though. Most use human meters that can be purchased at any pharmacy. It typically reads a little lower than the pet meter but we have ways of compensating it. Many use Walmart's brand, Relion Micro or Relion Confirm, because it only needs a tiny drop of blood. They cost around $15 and the strips are around 35 cents each.

    Lancets: These are used to poke the ear to get blood. There are many different sizes (gauges). It is recommended when you are first starting out to use a 26-28 gauge. Also, it would be a good idea to pick up Neosporin WITH pain reliever to apply on the edge of the ears and don't forget to alternate ears.

    Spreadsheets: Our spreadsheet instructions are here. If you look at the signatures of the members here, you will see a link to their kitty’s spreadsheets. We keep track of all our tests. This is basically a place to collect data and help you to determine patterns, doses, etc. It also aids those that may be helping you to better understand your kitty.

    Food: There are many reasons why we are here but one is due to feeding dry cat food which is high in carbs. You will want to consider changing your food to wet, low carb food. It is recommended to feed food that is under 10% carbs. Here is a list of cat food to choose from.food chartyou will note that the food with fish are lower in carbs however it is recommended that you only give fish once a week due to its mercury content. Many use Fancy Feast, 9 Lives, Friskies, etc. This list can also be found inwww.catinfo.org If you are already giving insulin and you have not transitioned to wet, low carb cat food, be sure to test while you are transitioning. This is because by changing to low carb food, it could decrease your kitty’s number by 100 points or more.

    Hypo Kit: Always good to be prepared for possible hypo events which means that your cat has reached dangerously low numbers. It can be fatal, hence, the importance of home testing and collecting data in a spreadsheet. In each of the Insulin Forums are stickie’s labeled Hypo Links. Please print and post on your refrigerator so everyone in your household is aware of hypo symptoms. You will want to create your hypo kit that would include and not limited to; extra testing strips, honey/karo/maple syrup, high carb food, medium carb food, vet information, etc.

    Ketones: Diabetic cats are susceptible to diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA). It is best to buy testing strips that will measure (if any) ketones in the urine. One brand is Ketostix which can be found at Walmart or any pharmacy. You will want to test periodically unless you continue to get high numbers, then it is suggested to test more frequently. Ketostix typically costs around $10.

    Treats: It is always nice to have treats available for your kitty. Some use it after they have tested to reward. I like using Pure Bites. I have found it at Petsmart and other pet stores. It is freeze dried and the only ingredient is the meat i.e. chicken, duck, etc. If your cat likes it, then I would go to the dog section where it is cheaper than the cat package. It is bigger chunks but no problem in breaking it up. There is a link here somewhere that has a list of low carb treats but I don't have it right now.

    Injections: Most folks here use one of these main insulins; Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc. Two hours prior to your insulin shot, you will not want your kitty to eat. Then you will test and then feed. It is best for your kitty to eat a little before your shoot. I shoot while he is eating. The reason why you do not want your kitty to eat two hours prior to your test is because food elevates BG numbers. So you do not want to dose based on a food influenced number. Here is a link on how to give injections.http://www.felinediabetes.com/injections.htm

    Note: Please check your insulins as there are some (the harsher ones like Humulin, Novlin, Vetsulin, etc.) that would be best to allow some time after your kitty has eaten before you shoot.

    If you have any questions, please be sure to post in the Health Forum.
     
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  8. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015

    Hi I am feeding Ben K/D wet. I am really hoping when he gets his next test his kidneys are fine, then I will switch him to DM wet or W/D wet. I will also check out the information about the other food that was mentioned for him as well. He is such a sweet boy. I am giving him Novolin and its a very tiny dose. I think its 0.1 cc. All I know is its the first long line after the first short line on the syringe is how I remember it. Ben loves his feet and belly rubbed too. He is the cutest little guy. The insulin has left me a bit confused today as the Walmart pharmacist told me I can use the current insulin I just started using until it's expiration date in 2017 because I keep it refrigerated. My vet told me in 42 days to discard it even though I keep it refrigerated. I went to Walgreen and they said discard after 30 days (they charge $150 or $160 something for insulin, Walmart charges $24.88 and no prescription is needed. CVS pharmacy told me to discard the insulin after 28 days whether it is refrigerated or not ( I found out I would need a prescription to buy Ben's insulin here). I am going to call the manufacturer on Monday to find out how long is it good for refrigerated.

    How many vials is good to keep on hand and where do I keep them?

    I have honey and I bought kyro syrup today. There have been a few times to get him interested in eating I put tuna water on the wet food. I bought the one with the lowest sodium for him. I do have the Neosporin for pain. I still feel bad at the though of having to stick him and get blood so often even though it is for his health. The vet techs did say that he just lays there when they get blood from his veins.

    I bought a stainless steel water fountain for him which he just looks at, otherwise I change his water several times a day and wash his bowl each time until he drinks from his fountain. I put a heating pad on low under a really soft blanket for him in case he gets cold and also the vet said he has a little bit of arthritis in his back.

    The AlphaTraks strips are really expensive. If I have to get it for him I will but I will look into some of the other mentioned. Thank you to everyone for giving me so much information. There is a lot I will be reading on here that has been posted for me to help Ben stay healthy. I am a bit overwhelmed right now as there is so much I need to know and do for him.

    I know if his glucose is low give him kyro syrup or honey but if its too high would I give him insulin and would I give his regular dose or a different amount? His last curve after three days was 165, and that is the number the vet left me with as for the current insulin dose.

    Thanks,

    Bens Human
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  9. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Funny you should mention the length of time you can use a bottle of insulin, I was discussing just that with my vet today! My kitty is on a very low dose and would never be able to finish a bottle of insulin in 42 days; my vet says, in his opinion, I'm okay to keep using it until Squallie finishes the bottle, which would mean he'd be using the same bottle for almost 4 months. I pay $52 and change per bottle and I buy it from him.

    You really only need to keep the one bottle you're using; unless you live somewhere where it would be a difficult, lengthy process to get a new bottle, you don't really need to keep a spare on hand.

    The heating pad is a nice touch! Very sweet of you, and I'm sure Ben will thank you. :)

    Yes, if his blood glucose drops down to dangerous levels, you would need to give him some Karo or honey, and most people keep a can or two of high-carb gravy-style food on hand for hypo, too. A spoonful of gravy is a great help to raise BG, without filling kitty up, in case you need to give more food later. It's good to have "hypo kit" on hand just in case, but hopefully you won't have any hypos so you won't have to use about it! Keep in mind, too, that Alphatrak meters have different number values for hypo risk than do the human meters.

    If his BG goes high in between his regular insulin doses there's not really much you can do. You definitely do not want to give him more insulin, besides his regular schedule, that could be extremely dangerous! He'll be okay at high numbers for a few hours, until his next shot time. What dosage did your vet put him on?

    @Merlin's advice is excellent, if you can you really should follow the links she gave you, you'll get lots of very helpful knowledge.

    Ben seems like such a special kitty, and I think he's very lucky to have you as his new Bean! Please keep us posted on his progress, and remember you can post any time if you have questions or need advice! There are always great people here ready to assist!

    Hugs to you for taking this journey with Ben! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  10. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    How's Ben this AM? I've been thinking about him and told his story to some friends. You're both so lucky to have found each other. I hope his kidneys are ok, but even if there's a problem, Several people on this site have cats with both problems and can help you with any questions you may have. But it's very possible that once he gets hydrated and insulin in his system, his kidneys will be fine(fingers and paws crossed!)When I told your story to a friend last night she said that's what happened with her sugar baby. I don't know what food choices you have if he has kidney problems, but if he doesn't, you don't need to feed the prescription foods. I would probably recommend trying a low carb canned food that is also low in phosphorus. High phos. Is bad for the kidneys. Please let us know how Ben is doing.
     
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  11. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Depending on where it came in the cycle, 165 is a good number. Lots of cats start their diabetic journey in the 300/400 range or higher.

    For reference, we generally consider a cat regulated if they are in the lower 200s at pre shot and double digits at their lowest point but not below 50 which is approaching hypo territory. We advise new members not to shoot under 200 but to stall, without feeding. Not only do you want the number above 200 but you want to make sure it is rising, not falling. We consider a cat in remission if they range from 40-120 off insulin for two weeks.

    In some cats, N can have a fast onset, taking him to his low point early in the cycle. I'd find out when he starts to drop and when he is lowest with your testing. That info will really help you figure out your dose and whether he is in safe numbers. Also, because N can drop him low fairly early, we advise making sure you test, then being sure he eats and the food stays down, then giving him the insulin.

    Very few people here use N. Here is a primer written a number of years ago:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/humulin-n-primer.303/
     
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  12. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hi,

    Ben is on insulin once a day in the AM and dose is 0.01 cc. This morning I let him eat then gave insulin. He did flinch at being poked. Next time I will give injection as he is eating. I dont have a glucosemeter yet, but will hopefully be getting one this week.

    I read some people use freestye lite test strips in there alphatrak 2 and say they work fine and are cheaper.

    I did get Ben to swat at a toy feather once or twice this morning so he must be feeling better.

    Dose the insulin ever change or is whatever he is on now he will always be on? He is on the Novalin.

    I will know in a month if he stays on a low carb low phosperus food when I get bloodwork done for kidneys.

    Bens Human
     
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  13. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi there. To answer your question, the dose will change according to his numbers and once you start testing and set up a Spread Sheet, the peeps here can guide you better. Glad he was a bit playful with you this morning. Sounding encouraging. I did not realize that it would take one month to get test results back. Keep us posted.
     
  14. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Insulin is dosed in units and comes in various concentrations per mL.
    0.01 of a CC is 1/100 of a cubic centimeter, aka 1/100 of 1 milliliter (mL).
    This equals 1 unit of a U-100 insulin, which has 100 units per mL.
     
  15. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    He gets retested in a month. First blood test was Sept 26 the day I found him and next will be Oct 26 after he has been with me a month. The vet said thats a good amount of time for him to have recovered and put on weight. He isnt dehydrated anymore which is really good and the vet said I can continue giving him pediolyte if it wil help him out too.

    Will he ever be switched to different insulin or always be on Novalin?

    Bens Human
     
  16. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    So what is your name?
    I am not familiar with Novolin but I believe all insulin need to be given shots twice a day i.e. every 12 hour cycles. I am sure someone will chime in on that but since Novolin is a very short cycle insulin, it doesn't has the lasting power to go 24 hours but rather it only goes about 8-10 hours.
    Yes, most people change to another insulin because Novolin is not one of the better insulins. The better ones are Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc.
    You might want to start checking this website. http://felinecrf.org/ It is the best if your kitty has kidney issues. Merlin has Stage 3. This site is awesome has lots of information. There is a list there, much like our list, that has foods that contain low phosphorous. Since Merlin and many other cats here have diabetes and kidney disorders, we have to find food with low carbs and low phosphorous. You usually cannot find that at the vets office (prescribed food). I use Wellness Turkey but there is EVO too that has low in both as well as a few others. They are much cheaper than the vet's office.

    You will be able to tell much more after you get your spreadsheet up and running and get more tests in. I think that is the key right now.
     
  17. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Thank you all for all the information. I will ask the vet about the other insulins and look at the felinecrf.org later.

    I tried to give him some clam juice since its lower in sodium then tuna water he didnt like it. He didnt like the dust buster either.

    Is it difficult to do home glucose testing on cats? I dont know how he will respond to me pricking his ear. Honestly, I feel kind of nervous doing it. I dont want to hurt him or him to end up avoiding me because he thinks I will prick him every time I see him.

    I have other cats I have to get him used to and them to him. I have been reading up on websites the best way to do that as well. Him and my dog dont seem to mind each other.

    Windy aka Bens Human
     
  18. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I agree. Insulin can work for 24 hours in dogs but not in cats - their metabolism is faster. What happens is the insulin works for the first 8-10 hours and then is gone. So he may be in decent numbers during the day and then run high all night. He really needs insulin every 12 hours. Otherwise, he will fell like he is on a roller coaster - lower for the first part and then higher, then lower. Can't feel good.

    The testing at home is easy with some cats, harder with others. But doable with every one I have ever heard about - even feral cats. The trick is to find a snack he really likes (PureBites and Bonito flakes are popular at my house) and use it only for the test. Start by finding a place where you want to test. If there are other animals on a new household, then maybe a bedroom with just the two of you with the door closed. First, take him there and mess with his ears, lots of pets and praise, a treat and let him go. Then add warming his ears. We liked a rice sack - a thinnish sock filled with raw rice and knotted. Then heated till toasty warm in the microwave. Do that a few times: to the spot, praise. Pets, warming the ear and treat and let him go. By the time you add the poke, the hope is that he is so eager for the treats, he won't mind.

    Meanwhile use the lancet on yourself so you get the feel of it. Also, get a drop of your blood and use the meter so you are confident about how it works.

    We spent an entire weekend poking poor Oliver (before we knew it was 3 tries, stop and treat) before we got a drop. The important things for us were to get the ear warm enough and use a large enough lancet (30/31 for humans may be too thin for cats. Often 25-27 gauge works better)

    Let us know how it is going. Everyone has tricks that helped them.
     
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  19. Woodsywife

    Woodsywife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Ben is so lucky you found him. Sounds as if he has some improvement already under your excellent care. You can mix a little water to the canned food so he gets extra fluids. It's sorta like a puzzle but all the pieces will fall into place.
     
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  20. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Is it okay to keep a cat on Novalin? I was looking at the cost of Lantus and its a bit out of my price range at the moment. I will still see if I can talk to the vet about it when I go in this week.

    Bens Human
     
  21. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Many purchase Lantus at a Canada Pharmacy (online) because it is cheaper. I think the name is Marks Marine Pharmacy but you can go to the Lantus forum or "search" to get that information.
     
  22. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    N is often harder to regulate with as it often doesn't last more than 8 hours. Your kitty might be the exception to the rule, but if I were you, I'd try a milder, longer lasting insulin


    f money is an issue your vet can order BCP PZI. It is a compounded form of PZI and is under $100. As Cindi said, Lantus from Canada is also cheaper
     
  23. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
  24. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    I don't know if this has to do with the insulin but the first two meals of the day Ben doesn't eat a lot but by the third meal he eats a bit more. His first meal is around 6 to 6:30 AM and the second is around 8:30 to 9:30 also in the AM, he usually wont eat again when I try to feed him at 11 but around 1 to 1:30 he will eat a little more and by 5 to 5:30 he eats a lot more. I am trying to get him to gain weight and since he had an empty stomach for who knows how long I thought it would be better to feed him smaller meals more frequently so he doesnt get sick and will put some weight back on. I give him his insulin around 6:15 to 6:30 AM. He is very slowly becoming a little more active each day as well. Overall he doesn't do much but it is because he is still recovering and is also an older little guy. I will ask my vet about the BCP PZI when I go in this week as well as Lantus. What's very difficult is that if he does have kidney failure as well then I cannot feed him a diabetic diet for his diabetes but the vet said I would need to feed him the kidney diet which is lower in protein and cats need more protein. The two diets seem to go against each other.


    Bens Human
     
  25. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi Windy, you are correct, the two diets are at odds with each other and that said, there are peeps here that are juggling both, a diabetic cat diet and one for kidneys. If it turns out to be that he does have kidney problems too, there are resources for you.
     
  26. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015

    Because of how I found Ben and the condition he was in I would hate to see him have kidney failure too. I feel like he kind of got a raw deal being probably abandoned. Why would anyone do that to any animal let alone an elderly declawed one.

    Is it normal for diabetic cats to have a lot of dandruff? I brush him and wipe him with a wet towel every night because he still isn't grooming himself yet but he has a lot of dandruff.

    Thanks
     
  27. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Hi Windy and Ben, yes a poor coat can be due to the diabetes. Good that you are helping him groom. It may be that he just hasn't had the energy to do it for himself in quite some time. And with little if any nutrients going in, the skin would suffer.

    I've done a lot of rescues(have 15 right now) and I'm still stunned at how cruel humans can be.
     
  28. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hi Sharon,

    How did you get all of your cats used to each other? Since Ben is on a special diet my vet suggested keeping him separate from my other cats and also because he is alot older and declawed. My one cat Bailey weighs 17 pounds and if he jumped on Ben he would hurt him. He isnt a fat cat at 17 pounds, he is just a large cat.

    Windy, Bens Human
     
  29. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Most get along most of the time. I have one that doesn't like some of the others. He stays outside during the day(I live out in the country) and at night stays in the bathroom. They have little fights now and then, but I just yell, 'Hey!' And they stop. You may have to worry for now if your others get playful, they could run over Ben accidentally. That happens here sometimes(I have one that's 23, and he's always in someone's path!) So it may be wise to keep them separate at least when you're not there to monitor. Gradually introduce them so when Ben gets stronger they can be together. More than likely whatever food Ben ends up on-low carb, low Phos- will be ok for the others too.
     
  30. Woodsywife

    Woodsywife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Windy, how is Ben today?
     
  31. nora

    nora Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2015
    Windy, you are amazingly wonderful to lucky Ben!! How quickly devoted to him you are, especially attentive to his special needs, especially as you have other cats. You've taken on a lot in a short time. As you've seen already, this is a great place to learn. I'm new and learning every day. Best of luck to you and Ben and your household. Nora and Kali
     
  32. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hi, I just saw this today. Ben seems to be doing okay. I still dont know him that well to know how he feels. I tried putting him in a 4 by 4 exercise pen with a top so he could be around me and my other pets but he hated it. I have him back in the bathroom which he prefers. He doesnt like getting the shot. He goes back to the vet tomorrow for his glucose check.
     
  33. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hi Nora, I was overwhelmed at first because I am trying to help him recover and get weight back onto him. I am also still getting to know him which takes time. I have no idea how he is feeling as he sleeps alot but it could be because he is an older cat too. I wish you the best of luck with your kitty too.
     
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  34. Woodsywife

    Woodsywife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Let us know how the visit goes.
     
  35. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    I will. Does anyone on here make their own food for their cat for diabetes or kidney failure?
     
  36. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    I don't but if you google it, there are recipes online for complete nutrition.
     
  37. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Is there anything specific I should put in when I google it? I put in homemade diabetic diet or homemade kidney diet and am having trouble finding anything. One I found only told ingredients but not proportions or measurements.
     
  38. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    nora, Sharon14 and Bobbie And Bubba like this.
  39. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Thanks so much Lucy. :)
     
  40. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
  41. Woodsywife

    Woodsywife Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
  42. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Thanks Sharon I will check those out today. Smokey's really lucky you came into his life.

    If someone works 8 or 9 hours a day how are you supposed to feed every few hours? Is it okay to leave dry food out in case the kitty gets hungry while your out, but still feed a mostly wet food based diet.

    Thanks
     
  43. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hi Windy, dry food is really high in carbs, there are a few out there that are 10% or lower. The best food choice is wet as long as it is 10% or under. Oh, I remember now that you are waiting for kidney test to come back. Check your in the food chart that Sue linked an earlier post. What a lot of peeps do that work, is they freeze the wet food in an ice cube tray and set the little frozen puck out to thaw during the day so when Ben would be hungry again, he could enjoy his food. They are food safes online too. Some of the peeps that use them can weigh in, as I am home all day and don't use one.
     
  44. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Bens glucose today was 240. I was tod to switch him to the diabetic diet because he doesnt like the kidney diets and being on a diabetic diet may also help his kidneys if he has kidney issues. The kidneys could be a side affect of the diabetes I was told. I am trying the DM pate right now to see if he likes it.
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  45. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Hi Windy, have they determined for sure yet whether or not he has kidney disease?
     
  46. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hi Lucy,

    I will find out for sure on October 26th when he gets retested. His first blood test showed high readings for his kidneys. The vet said dehydration could have been the cause for it and wait a month before getting him retested.
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  47. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Ben hated the W/D diet and was not really into the DM pate but seemed to like the DM savory one. I am going to see if he likes the fancy feast that was mentioned on here.
     
  48. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    My cat wouldn't eat the W/D or D/M either, but loves the Fancy Feast. Since you're worried about his kidneys, you may want to try the Wellness Grain Free canned food as I believe it is fairly low in Phosphorus.
     
  49. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Oh wow there are so many kinds of wellness grain free. Should I do core, minced or cubed?
     
  50. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    I'm pretty sure the minced and cubed have gravy, so stay away from them. I believe @Merlin feeds it, maybe she can guide you on the type.
     
  51. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hello,

    Which Wellness Turkey do you feed? I was looking at the Wellness site and saw Complete Health Turkey Recipe, Minced Turkey Entrée, and Cubed Turkey? I didn't see anything that mentioned carbs or phosphorus on the site It did mention grain free though.

    Thanks,

    Windy Ben's Human
     
  52. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    I use Wellness Turkey. It is basically a pate. It has 4 carbs and 200 Phos or around 1%. It is in a green label.
     
  53. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
     
  54. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hi Cindi,

    Thanks for the info. I just ordered him some Wellness grain free turkey. I hope he likes it. Do you think Merlin is doing better because of the diet you feed him?
     
  55. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Absolutely it helped...however what works for one cat may not work for another cat. If you look at Merlin's SS, I had to switch to another food i.e. Wellness Turkey because his previous cat food (Friskies Special Diet Turkey & Giblets) was being discontinued. So the end of May, I spent about two weeks trying other food. I first started out with Wellness Turkey but none of the cats liked it. I tried about a half dozen other food and they didn't like them either. So I went back to Wellness Turkey, and they all loved it. Go figure. Anyway, Merlin started on June 6 and you can see that his numbers improved almost immediately with his new food. The Friskies SDT&G was 5 carbs and Wellness Turkey is 4%. It is amazing that 1 % carb makes that big of difference. Good luck and let us know how he likes it. Oh by the way, because of his kidney disease, I just started giving him Phosphorous binders.
     
  56. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Ben seems to be doing really well. He is alert and interested in his surroundings. I have an exercise pen set up he can come out in when he wants to, to see whats going on. He is eating and drinking and seems happy. Even in his eyes they are brighter and have more life in them.
    I may never be able to let him out with my other cats because I don't want him going after their food and since he is a lot older he may be more fragile and wouldn't be able to handle them and their constant energy and being really rowdy.

    Windy, Ben's Human
     
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  57. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    So glad Ben is doing well. You're probably right to keep him separate at least for now. When he gets stronger you can try them together if you want too. Either pick up their food, or transition them all to a food Ben can have. He is such a cutie I wish you both the best of luck!:cat::bighug:
     
  58. nora

    nora Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2015
    Glad to hear Ben is perking up!! You've given him a new lease on one of his 9 lives! Good job! Even tho he's being kept separate from the others, he sounds quite happy and with a good quality of life. Your instincts are spot on. Nora and Kali.
     
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  59. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Last night he was swatting at a little moth, it was cute. I was looking on the ingredients for the DM wet and dry and it has corn meal or something like that and some other grain in it. How can this be made for diabetic cats?

    I have classic fancy feast that was recomended by this board and wellness grain free turkey for him to try. I dont think I want him eating anymore DM after its gone.
     
    Sharon14 likes this.
  60. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    It all marketing - vets don't get a lot of nutrition training. You need to be home testing when you change carb levels - the insulin dose may need to be dropped 1-2 units to avoid hypoglycemia, which can kill.

    How to Handle A Hypo
     
  61. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    He seems to like the DM savory but not really into the fancy feast classic, I have tried different flavors too. He is on 0.01 of insuin. Can that be dropped further, its such a tiny amount.
     
  62. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    As an FYI, 0.01 mL = 1 unit. We dose in units of insulin.
    Yes, it can be dosed in 0.5 units and some folks use calipers to measure 0.25 units or smaller.
    Pop over to the food chart at Cat Info and take a look at more food options.
    You may find this online calculator handy for estimating the calories from protein, fat, and carbohydrate, then calculating the % of calories from carbohydrate, which we aim to keep under 10%.
     
  63. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    I have a big dilemma now. I went ahead and had Ben's bloodwork done today and he has moderate kidney failure. The vet said to give him fluid therapy twice a week, without it he may only have a few more weeks or months to live. He told me I can give him a senior diet since it is lower in protein and I should focus his diet on his kidney issues now. Does anyone have any food suggestions? I gave him the wet turkey wellness that was suggested to me by Cindi. I have to find a place that I can get this ringer lactate solution cheaper and learn how to do it on my own. Money is an issue for me in helping Ben now. The first few times I am taking Ben in so they can show me how to give him the fluids, right now I don't know if I can do it on my own. They are going to have to show me how to test his glucose too as that isn't going very well. I don't want money to come between Ben's life. The vet said he may have a year or two if he gets fluid therapy. I am really overwhelmed right now and don't know what to do. He did have fluid therapy today and his glucose was really high because I messed up his insulin and there was a tiny air bubble and he didn't get his full dose.
     
  64. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Have you been to Feline CRF? It is all about feline renal disease and ways to manage it. The renal stage determines how much you need to control protein levels.
     
    Sharon14 likes this.
  65. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    I go to that site all the time, thats how I found out about this site. I wish the foods the cats can have was easier to find. I am still looking on the site.
     
  66. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Be patient with yourself. Did they say what stage of CRF he has?

    Feline CRF notes that cooked egg white is low phosphorus.
    Cat Info states that you can add 1 ounce of lean protein to cat food, mix well and portion out.
    Combining those 2 bits together, if you add 1 ounce of cooked egg white to the canned food, you keep the protein quality good, and reduce the phosphorus and carbs per serving.
     
  67. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    I have know idea what stage. I didnt even know to ask. The vet said its moderate. I will call tommorow and ask. Thank you for letting me know about the egg and adding it to cat food. I fed him the Wellness Turkey tonight and he seemed to like it. He does tend to like one thing one day and is picky about it the next. He did not like the hills k/d chicken or oncean fish.
     
  68. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    The most important thing is that he eat. You can adjust the insulin around the food, as needed.

    When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback.

    Editing your Signature

    In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

    Click on your ID.

    On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by | or -.
    This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    Add any other text, such as
    your name | cat's name | date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter
    general location (city and state/province)
    any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
    Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

    Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.
     
  69. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Thanks, I was wondering how to do that. Ben had his fluid therapy about 7 hours ago, should there still be fluid under his skin very noticibly hanging from him, shouldnt it have all been absorbed by now?
     
  70. Mogmom and Goofus

    Mogmom and Goofus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014

    I'm so glad you found that poor little guy in time! Some people think they can just dump a cat (even a declawed one) and that it'll survive by its natural instincts, stupid, stupid people.

    Trust me, everyone here went thru everything you're feeling now, scared of doing something wrong, anxiousness, being overwhelmed, worried about the financial part of it, confusion and just down right exhaustion. But it really does get better! Really!

    I have a cat that had so many health issues when she was a little baby, my vet said she'd probably only live to be 7 or 8........ She turned 12 this month. Try not to focus too much on timelines, every cat is different (you'll see that phrase quite often on this board ) so Ben could be with you for a long time. As to the CRF, I'm guessing if the vet said moderate, it probably means stage 2 or 3, so it could take longer for fluid to absorb, but id think that it would get better each time. For now, you do need to feed for the kidneys and let the insulin control the diabetes. Just curious, what was his BG ( blood glucose) number at diagnosis?

    I wish you and Ben the best!
     
  71. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Thanks Tammy,

    It really is overwhelming, especially because I do have other pets, one being a special needs dog who is blind with a microscopic liver shunt and has seizures occassionally. He is on a special diet and is on meds too. I just dont know if I will be able to give Ben fluids on my own. I will have to be shown and do it at the vet office a few times. I know doing it on my own will be better for Ben and wont cost as much, but just the thought of doing it makes me nervous. Plus I am back in school and trying to balance studying and pet needs. Are you doing anything special for your cat that is now 12?

    I called the vet and they said Ben is muld to moderate for his kidney failure and that is still considered severe where he needs fluids and the fluids may or may not help. To me mild to moderate doesnt sound severe. I was told they dont give stage levels for his condition like in humans. I am waiting for his Epakitin and kidney diet to arrive.

    Maybe its just me but the vets office makes it seem like he is alot worse off.

    Thanks ,
    Windy, Ben's Human
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
    Reason for edit: adding
  72. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Hi Windy, sorry about Ben's Dx, but you'll do fine. I have had to give fluids on many occasions and was terrified the first few times, but I got used to it and now it's easy. Cindi posted above (post 16) that Merlin has stage 3 kidney failure and he's doing well. She also has mentioned using Phosphorus binders(post 55). I don't know about those, but maybe ask your vet. You may want to start a new thread in Health to ask questions about how to deal with the double Dx. A lot of people here have cats with both problems and may be able to give you more insight.
     
  73. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    Hi Sharon,

    Thank you for letting me know where to post about cats with both issues. I did get the phosphorus binder that Cindi mentioned. How often do you give fluids?
     
  74. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    I'm not giving any right now. When Colin was first Dx. I had to give them to him every day for the first week. Then he was doing better on his own. I keep them on hand though just in case he, or one of the others, needs them. I just had bloodwork done on him and am waiting to see about his kidneys.
     
  75. Benshuman

    Benshuman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2015
    I hope the results of his kidneys come back fine. How do you store the fluids? Do they have to be kept refrigerated? What is Dx? I googled it but I did not find anything relating to cats.
     
  76. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Dx is diagnosed. I don't keep mine in the fridge, although I think you can. My neighbor runs a pet rescue, so between us we use them up pretty fast and one of us always has some around. Ask your vet for sure though.

    Colin doesn't have CKD as far as I know, had bloodwork done yesterday. When He was diagnosed with diabetes, he was dehydrated and needed fluids.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015

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