New ... dazed and confused ... and scared

Hi!

My name is Tamara and I am writing about my baby, Armani (my 11-year-old tux). Though Armani has always been a big boy he has never been a big eater. However, the vet is saying he is pre-diabetic because of his blood and urine tests. She wants me to start giving him insulin which I am not comfortable with because insulin is pretty serious and they are "just" calling him pre.

My biggest source of confusion comes from his symptoms: he is not ravenously hungry, does not urinate exsessively and does not have incredible thirst. Nothing!

The only thing that tipped us off to diabetes is the fact he is walking with some difficultly on his back legs (walking down on them, like a bunny, instead of on his tippy toes like a cat). I did some research online and found out this could mean diabetes. I told my vet this and she said she hadn't heard of that. I felt good cuz I like helping to give others knowledge.

Anyway, both blood and urine tests came back pre.

I decided to see what I could do by treating it with his diet. Last Monday I took away all dry food (he had been free fed up until that point which, again, was not that big of a deal {I thought!} as he does not eat very much) and gave him only wet. I bought 4 cases of high quality 5.5-oz cans canned food from a pet food store ($$) and started him on one.

His sister, lil miss coco chanel, was thrilled with all this wet food because that is all she likes. His brother, Max Factor, only holds a passing fancy to wet food and soon seemed to be hungry all the time.

By last night (exactly one week into the experiment) I couldn't take the pressure anymore. I was positive there were days Armani got very little into his tummy. On good days he would eat about 1/3 a can. That's it.

In one week he went from 22.78 to 22.10.

So I put a tiny amount of dry food in some dishes. Both Armani and Maxi had some, but then left most of it which really has me wondering why Armani is having this problem when he eats so little to begin with ...

So far today I have only fed wet food. I have been waiting to hear from my vet as to if I should give more dry food tonight or not. He ate pretty well earlier today -- about 1/3 of a 5.5 can -- but it is time to eat again soon.

I guess my biggest question is: can we still consider Armani a diabetic cat if he only exhibits problems walking on his back legs and no thirst, urination or hunger problems?

I am so tired of being the adult here cuz I have no idea what I am doing! Am I hurting him by the way I am now feeding him since he has lost so much weight? I don't know what to do.

Thanks so much for listening!! I am so glad to have found you guys.

 

Welcome to FDMB.

Walking on the hocks does suggest diabetic neuropathy. Methylcobalamin, a specific form of Vit B12, can help. Zobalin is a 3mg (3,000 mcg) form just for cats. Check pricing through our shopping partner Amazon (link at top of page).

Food changes tend to work best when done gradually to avoid GI tract issues such as diarrhea, vomiting, or refusal to eat.

You want to select foods with 10% or fewer calories from carbohydrates. See Cat Info

The numbers you provided suggest you are not in the US; would you care to share your country and province? We have members around the world and some may have country-specific food suggestions for you. Were the numbers for weight or glucose ?

 

Welcome Tamara and Armani! I can't answer many of your questions but I wanted to say hi as I saw you were online and I know you're worried for your big boy. You are definitely in the right place . . . there are lots of caring people here with lots of knowledge that will help you find the best way to get Armani feeling better.

I'm not sure exactly what vets classify as pre-diabetic, but if he is walking down on his hocks it sounds like his blood sugar must be high enough to be bothering him. I would really encourage you to start home testing his blood sugar. There are lots of tips on this site and it help you feel a lot more in control of the situation since you'll know what's going on with him at any given time. Just ask for any help you need in getting started.

I felt like giving insulin was a really big step that I was reluctant to take at the beginning, but it was a lot easier than I thought and I could see that my cat was feeling better when she started getting it. Her appetite was quite poor until the insulin started bringing her blood sugar down. Testing and giving insulin was all brand new to every single person here at one point, but we all got comfortable with it so you can too!

I'm sure many others will chip in with good ideas on how to proceed, so for now, take a deep breath and know that this is treatable and you're doing the best thing you can for Armani just by being here and asking for help.

 

I think the "went from 22.78 to 22.10" was in regards to his weight, not his blood sugar, right? Are we talking pounds?

 

Hello and welcome to the board,

You are in a great place for your cat! We can help if we know a little more info

1. What is the food you are you feeding now? Now all quality wet foods are low enough carb to be good for controlling diabetes.

2. Has he always eaten little? Maybe he doesn't like this new wet, we can recommend other types to try if you tell us what country you are in. Also you might want to transition them all to the wet a bit more gradually.. Give dry and wet for a week and gradually taper off the dry, once you have found a wet they enjoy of course!


Has your vet mentioned home testing?
Wendy

 

Hi everyone!!

Wow .. thanks so much for writing, your suggestions and your questions.

I am so excited to get this under control.

Interesting thinking about the insulin. Maybe I have been hasty cuz it just kills me to see Armani stumble around. Testing his blood sugar is a great idea! It will give me more of a sense of control over the situation. I read that at some point Armani could lose the abillity to jump! He always cuddles me at night and I have a chair on the side of my bed to make it easier for him. It would be just heartbreaking if he couldn't even get up on that.

I have been feeding Armani Wild Calling! which is 96% Buffalo or 96% Pheasant. I have assumed that that means the remaining 4% -- and only 4% -- is carbs. Not sure if I am correct in my assumption. I emailed the company to find out.

I was giving him Fancy Feast in the transition. Today I put down some Meow Mix only to discover he is eating about the same amount of crap as he is good -- so I can now keep him on good.

The vet recommended putting out 1/4 cup of quality, grain free kibble; just for the time being. I use Pure Vita or Natural Balance. Going to a pet food store tonight so will look for the kibble with the highest protein count.

Armani has always eaten just a little. I even free-fed kibble and he was OK with a few bites every now and then. That is why I am so confused! Shouldn't he have been eating way too much?

I think home testing is a great idea. My vet is wonderful -- she emails me constantly.

Yes, I am talking pounds and not blood sugar. I don't know what his sugars were. Perhaps I need to get that from my vet.

Yea! You guys are helping me feel I can be more in control of this and how my baby feels!! Thanks so much. I am so happy to have found you.

 

Methylcobalamin, a form of B-12 vitamin, helps with the diabetic neuropathy (stumbling around)

The Wild Calling looks good so far. The Meow Mix is cr*p; pitch it out of the house. Dry food is not good for cats; it puts too much of a workload on the kidneys.

If you or he insist on dry food, the lowest carb, highest protein is young Again 0 Carb (5% of calories from carbohydrates; internet order only). Seriously, go to Cat Info and start reading. Print out the pdf and share with your vet.

He may have gotten to the point he wasn't hungry due to excessive fat breakdown for calories. This can result in diabetic ketoacidosis and/or hepatic lipidosis. Ketones form from fat breakdown and poison the body. Fat overwhelms the liver and causes blockage of bile which is necessary for digestion; it can kill, too.

 

Still don't know where you live, so we can give you country specific information on meters and food US, Canada, international? State/province, general area is nice to know. We have people that can teach you to home test for a second reason for asking about where you live.

Grain free does NOT mean low carb and the AAHA Diabetes Management Guidelines for Dogs and Cats recommends feeding the lowest carb WET food your cat will tolerate. WE here on the board have found that <10% and sometimes even < 5-6% carbs makes all the difference.

Here is one excerpt from that vet journal article published in June 2010.

Those AAHA Guidelines have a lot of good information. You may want to print them out and read them over again and again. It's one of the things I did.

 

Sorry. I keep forgetting to write where I live. I am in the United States in Portland, OR.

I would love to be taught how to home test. I am excited at the prospect of it. To think I can do more for Armani than just sit on my worried butt ... lol.

That article is more than helpful. I am printing it out for myself and my vet.

Where do I get the B12 from (methulcobalamin .. I will have to recheck my notes to make sure I am spelling that correctly)? Is it injected? I am not afraid of giving Armani shots. I better not be, huh?

Thanks again, guys!

Tamara

 

Dry food affects the blood sugar substantially. If you are in the middle of removing dry food from the diet, then you do not want to be giving insulin. Once the dry is removed, you will probably see a significant difference in the blood sugar, and you can find out yourself with home testing.

Some kitties go into remission just from the diet change alone. But either way, a diet change of removing dry while giving insulin has to be done very very very carefully. It's better to hold off on insulin if you can while getting the dry totally out of their diet.

You can go back and edit yours posts

 

My Holly was just diagnosed a few weeks ago - It's all new to me too! There are several good videos online about both home testing cats and giving insulin. Multiple links here, plus lots of knowledgeable people who can help you get through it all. I live outside of the states and don't have the resources - this forum has kept me going, and Holly is doing much better. Seriously - a week ago I thought I was going to lose her. Tonight she was playing and jumping up on my lap.

Exercise is key. Play toys, playtime, etc. Make her jump for food, play etc. The back legs are definitely a sign of diabetes. Have they done more than one blood test in the office? It usually takes two high readings to confirm diabetes. If they've only done one, they may call it pre-diabetes.

Once you get the routine down, it's much easier. Don't worry if you can't get all the blood tests right for the first few days. You'll learn. The main thing is that the sugar doesn't go too low. That is MUCH worse than the high readings. I watched many videos, more than once, before I felt confident.

There are links in the forum to help you find a quality glucose meter for home testing. I have the Ultra Mini, inexpensive down here.

Good luck!

 

Hi Tamara. If you look through this list you will see two people living in Oregon that aren't all that far away from you
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnxhRf3l1JQCdHlJRTJ6MV81a1plVG91Y1JJQTZtcUE
If you send them a Private Message, they may be willing to show you how to home test.

 

Are you giving insulin right now? If not, now is the best time to change food. No more dry. Then you want a low carb wet - many of us here feed fancy feast classic pates, friskies pates or wellness grain free but you can feed anything under 10% calories from carbs (column C) from this list: http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

If you are giving insulin - what kind and how much? lets start home testing him before making any more food changes
Wendy

 

Hi!

I am not giving him insulin ... yet.

Have been reluctant as he does not exhibit frequent urination, excessive thirst nor ravenous appetite.

In fact, I cannot get him to eat more than 1/4 of a 1/3 of a 3oz can. (So less than 1oz. A lot less). Sometimes he eats absolutely nothing.

The symptom he does have is diabetic neuropathy. The blood tests show pre-diabetes and when my vet suggested we start insulin, I balked.

I gave him some wet food with kibbles pushed in to it last night. He ate some of the kibbles, therefore, some of the wet, but left a good amount -- even of the dry food. Which he used to love.

OK, so home testing before I try to force him to eat wet only OR force him to eat anything. I can keep him on a pate with some kibbles squished into it. He doesn't eat much of it but any little amount is something, right? Or should I just keep it at wet food and test from there?

I guess I need to get this home testing under my belt and pronto.

 

Food changes tend to work better when done gradually. It is less likely to cause diarrhea, vomiting or inappetance. Change about 20-25% of the food each day and after 4-5 days, it'll be done. If you observe any problems back up a step and take 2 days for each amount of change.

Using a probiotic such as FortiFlora may help. Most cats love the taste/smell as it is made with animal digest, the same stuff sprayed on kibble. Sprinkle on the new food. Its also helpful whenever you give an antibiotic, as it will replace the good bacteria lost due to the prescription, just give it 2 hours after the med.

 

My Tiggy didnt show excessive eating. Also there are conditions associated with diabetes which may mean he won't show these... Especially if he isn't eating. So sooner you start to home test the better.

Also I would like to know what pre diabetes means ?

Here is a shopping list

1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast

Wendy

 

I just realized I did not answer this questions publically and other might be wondering the same thing.

Pre-diabetes

From what I understand, pre-diabetes is when -- instead of being able to get 2-3 blood tests and comparing them -- the vet is only able to get one test. Armani cannot be transported to the vet so the At Home Vet comes here. It is quite traumatic for him so we were only able to perform that one visit.

The blood sugar wasn't super high (I will get those numbers today from the vet. I need to know them), but high enough my vet was concerned. And with the diabetes neuropathy that is a pretty strong sign Armani is having trouble with his sugar levels (I do not know if I am using the proper terminology ... I apologize).

 

There are a number of Secondary Monitoring Tools in my signature link which do not require much, if any, handling of the cat, other than getting weight. Tracking those more subtle, less precise indicators is still valuable information. There is an older protocol which uses water drunk and urine testing to slowly adjust dose.

 

Ah ok - well lets see what his numbers are once you start testing!

 

FYI: Successfully changed my name from CattyTammy to Tamara & Armani.

Like it better that way!

 

Hi Tamara! Yes, user names are easy to change.

Would you be willing to put a little information in your signature? You can look at mine for the type of info we like to see. It's optional, but it helps us to help you better. User control panel, profile tab, edit signature.

How is Armani doing these days?
Have you changed his food yet?
How is Max Factor doing?
Did you ever get those BG (blood glucose) readings from the vet?

 

Tammy &armani. I like it better!

 

My frog almost never eats more than 1/4-1/3 can FF, he just eats that amount 4-6 times a day. When he wont eat anything, it usually ends up being nausea. (looks & acts hungry and interested until the food is right in front of him, then he turns away as if in disgust, smacking lips sometimes) Nausea can be treated with 1/4 of a 10mg Pepcid AC(regular Pepcid AC, not extra str.)

I've also discovered that with the wet food, at least half of my cats eat hardly any of it unless I put it up higher, so that the top of the food is at chest height.

Did the vet check his teeth? Sometimes tooth problems can make eating difficult, you can try adding water to the food to make it a little bit 'soupy' and see if that might work better for him.

 

open question:

My vet has recommended I purchase the AlphaTrak glucose monitoring system (fancy way of saying monitor .. lol) since she said it is especially calibrated for animals. I have already purchased a Walgreen's monitor plus strips plus lancets for a fraction of the cost.

Do I need to worry it was not made for animals? Won't it work just as well?

Thanks.

 

It's akin to the difference between Celsius and Fahrenheit. Most of us use human monitors so the numbers have already been "converted" to match the readings we get with human monitors. Other than that, some people prefer the AlphaTrak because it matches their vet's. For me, I simply gave a translation of "human vs. animal" BGs so my vet would know that Mikey wasn't hypoing at 50 every night. :lol: Even Wikipedia's blood guidelines for feline diabetes gives the numbers based on human monitors.

 

Here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first (mg/dL). Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters (mmol/L). Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

< 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
- At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

< 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
- At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
- Off insulin - normal numbers. (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

> 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
- Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
- Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

>= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
- Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
- Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
- Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.

 

This is wonderful! Thanks, you guys.

Now, after watching several You Tube videos, I have to actually prick Armani's ear and draw blood. Today is the day!

(I say not with excitement but with trepidation ... lol)

 

Practice pricking on an apple or banana a few times to get a feel for it.
Practice testing on yourself, too. You'll have a reference level for any time you think a number looks wonky.

If you ever get a test result you think is really strange, either high or low:
1) re-test
2) test yourself

The FDA allows meters to vary 20% from what a lab would get.
50 -> 40 to 60 is the range in which the lab value would lie
500 -> 400 to 600 is the range in which the lab value would lie

Don't be surprised if you ever prick yourself - it happens. The through the ear prick is the most common one. It helps to have a folded up tissue between your fingers and the ear (been there, done that!).

 

Heres some tips that might help: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

A few key things

1. ear has to be really warm
2. treat whether or not successful
3. Something hard behind the ear to press against if freehanding lancet
4. wider lancets ie 28g or 29 g are better

Wendy

 

How are things going? Were you able to get some tests in?

 

Hi KPassa (and everyone),

Thank you so much for writing! I have been having so much trouble getting a sample from Armani. I prick him and then off he runs. Got two pricks in his ear lobe and two on his paw. He doesn't let me work the blood out -- he just takes off and I am not able to hold him. This seems to be a two person job.

However, a friend just gave me a tip to stradle Armani and hold on to him that way. I am trying again tomorrow.

Also, someone said to put Vaseline on the ear and then prick him as the Vaseline will help corral the blood. But, won't this hurt the results?

Thanks for breathing life back into my quest.

 

It might be the location you're testing him. Sometimes simply moving to another room might help. It might even be the position you're holding him in. I wrote this up a while back to help people with "difficult cats" that might help.

 

A little smear of Vaseline, or even better neosporin pain relief ointment, won't hurt the results. And the antibiotic has the healing benefits too.

 

I think I found Armani's testing location -- underneath the kitchen table. I put the other two in the bedroom so that they are not walking around making him nervous and getting in his face.

I held a firm grip (thanks!), got two good, separate pricks in and got him to stay with me (and not run away!!!!!), however, cannot locate the blood. I warmed up his ear and got him pricked but was never able after that to find where the blood was. After the second prick I smeared the blood on my finger but never found out exactly where it was coming from.

By the way, KPassa. Great article! Thanks so much for linking it to me.

And, Wendy, I bought some pain relief Neosporin -- I think I got it off that wonderful shopping list you sent me. I put it on his ear even though I was not sure where the prick was.

Any ideas on how to locate the prick? (that sounds so funny .... My answer would be "The last guy I dated.")

 

LOL!!

Maybe you pierced the ear and it was coming out the back? You might want to carefully shave his ears and/or use a small flashlight to better see what you are doing. Black ears are hard to see. Or you could try poking the inside where you might be better able to see.

Wendy

 

If you think you got it, try scrapping your (clean) fingernail across the area pricked. You can test it off your nail.

 

UPDATE:
I cannot seem to do this on my own. I can prick him but cannot get him to stay still to get the blood. He is a very hard kitty to deal with. When it is time for him to see the vet he cannot be put into a carrier (believe me ...) so I have to get a vet who makes house calls. Have a call in to her office right now to see what she can do.

Worry: Usually when she comes out to see him we need to tranquilize him as he goes completely ballistic. It becomes a whole big production and does nothing to help Armani -- I am sure it stresses him out even more.

I am so angry with myself. I have the best coaches (you guys and YouTube) and yet do not seem to be able to get this done. I hang my head in shame.

(Let me see what the vet says. I wonder if she might not be more than a little wary of having to deal with him.)

(At least I have him on a strict wet food diet and his neuropathy has noticably improved!)

 

So can you explain your process to me and maybe we can help a bit?

After I poke I immediately transfer the lancet between other fingers and hold the ear firmly between my finger and thumb while I test. The meter is already primed as I pushed the strip fully in right after I warmed the ear.

Wendy

 

No need to feel ashamed that you have not been able to get Armani's blood. I've done cat sitting for cats that would prefer to rip your arm to shreds than submit to those ear pokes.

You may need to break this down into baby steps, getting him used to being touched and handled.

In the meantime, there are the secondary monitoring tools you can use to check. Yes, blood testing gives us some more data to work with, but the secondary monitoring tools can help until you get the blood testing down. Consider it a work in progress.

If you scroll a few posts back, you'll find BJM's reply to you. Look in her signature for the link to these tools.

 

Thanks, Deb! Those secondary monitoring tools make me feel a lot better. Yes, baby steps. I think I am rushing things.

Wendy,
Armani's two favorite places are under the kitchen table and in front of the couch. So that he doesn't feel trapped I sit in front of him off to the side. I prick his ear with the lancet in my right hand and then take my left hand and manipulate and massage his ear to try and get blood to appear. I already have warmed his ear.

I have the monitor close by but I never get that close to needing to use it.

When I do his back paw I try to hold his paw and massage it but he runs off.

I know -- at least I think I know -- I am rushing things; not to repeat myself. I am expecting myself to be further along than I am.

Does anything make sense? I think I need to allow Armani to get used to be massaging his ear, wanting to massage his paw. The last time I pricked his ear, I pricked it from the inside so that I could see the blood against the white inside of his ear. I gently bent the ear back but nothing appeared.

 

Hi Tamara. I am here in Portland. Can I help you?

 

yay, i'm glad to see someone from Portland has posted. i'm a couple of hours south of you, in the valley, and could come and help you learn if needed, although i work during the week. Wendy - thanks for sending out the all-call for Oregon people to help!

what you are experiencing is normal. no cat likes to get poked at the beginning. make sure you're giving him treats every time. i boiled chicken breasts, cut them in a little dice, like 1/2" cubes, freeze most and keep some out in the fridge. give one every time you test to reward armani for his patience. some people use freeze dried treats. the important thing is to reward him with some treat he likes.

it takes a couple of weeks of poking before you'll get blood every time. don't be discouraged, just keep on poking. as you poke the capillaries will grow and expand in that part of his ear. it'll come, it's nothing you're doing wrong, it just takes time for the capillaries to grow. if i felt desperate, ie, i was going to give insulin and needed to make sure punkin was high enough to shoot, i poked the vein. it's not ideal, it scars so you really have to make sure to staunch the bleeding after you've poked, but i felt it was necessary to keep my little one safe. i only did it while i was learning. after 2 weeks we didn't need to.

i can't tell if you're giving insulin yet or not. if not, i would really encourage you to bite the bullet and do it. a 264 (in your sig line) is high enough that i think most of us would be confident your cat is definitely diabetic. a non-diabetic cat runs around 40ish. when you get a prescription for insulin, Lantus or Levimir are the best insulins for cats. they last longest, which helps even out the blood sugar in the cat. also, your glucometer is fine - an Alphatrak has the most expensive strips and it's just unnecessary to spend that money.

your vet's lack of knowledge makes me a teeny bit nervous. i get it that you need someone to come to you, but it just doesn't sound like they know much. i might be looking for another vet option if i were you, although it's not uncommon for vets not to have that much experience with treating diabetes in cats. fortunately, you hit the jackpot when you found this site because people here have been helping others treat their cats for years. you can trust the information you get here, although sometimes new-ish people give advice before they are really capable, so it's a good idea to be aware of that. usually experienced people will step in with advice if something needs to be corrected. you've had lots of good advice so far.

also, unlike dogs and people, newly diagnosed diabetic cats have a very good chance of having their pancreas heal and going off of insulin if their blood sugar is brought under control and kept in lower numbers (under 120ish) as quickly as possible - the study showed highest success is in the first month after diagnosis. the protocol that is a published study that tells how to safely do this is in the Lantus/Lev Tight Regulation Insulin Support Group section of the board. That group tutors people in how to do this safely, but honestly, it's not hard and it's worth it. just takes time.

when you poke the ear, i'd encourage you to use the outside (furry side). it's easier to see and to manage. if you put a flashlight inside his ear you'll be able to see where the veins and capillaries are and hopefully get blood. use a rice sock (put 1/4 cup of raw rice in a cotton sock, tie a knot and microwave it until it feels warm but not hot. hold it on his ear for 30 seconds or so to warm it up. warm skin has more blood in it (think how you flush when you get hot.) warm his ear, put a flashlight so you can see, then poke. if your lancet device has a cover on it and you "click" to release it, you can use the clear cover, hold it against the ear firmly for about 5 seconds, click the lancet to poke, and continue to hold the clear cover against the ear in the same spot. if you don't move it, it will help the blood pool in that area.

yes, a light smear of vaseline - only enough to slick the hair a teeny bit, not enough to clog the pores - will help the blood not soak into the skin or hair. after you poke, test the blood drop, then staunch the poke with a cotton ball or kleenex. then put a generous amount of neosporin with pain relief to numb it. i tried that on me and it really makes a huge difference. love that stuff. then give armani a treat.

we had to burrito-wrap punkin in a beach towel for the first 2 weeks of testing also. i HATED having to pull him out from under the sofa, but i was convinced that i had to do it to keep him safe. he gave up fighting after that. there are videos on youtube that show how to do it. the key to success with that is to pull the beach towel tightly across his chest, pinning his front legs down to his body so he can't worm his way out of the towel. these things sound mean, but it's kinder than not treating this illness and it keeps the kitter safe, just as you would do for your child.

if armani weighs 22 lbs, that's probably a contributor to his diabetes. he's a hefty boy! reducing weight SLOWLY should be part of the plan, but it's very important that it be slowly. cats can't handle fast weight loss - this is very important. exercise will also help his body use the insulin more effectively. i had a cat that got up to 24lbs - not diabetic, but the poor guy only got 1/8 cup of crunchies am and pm, and he still barely lost weight. can you play with armani and get him moving a bit more?

i'm not on the board much anymore, my sweet punkin passed away in may, but i'll check back tomorrow and see how you're doing. hang in there - this is the hard part cuz there is so much to learn, but you'll get there! armani will get healthier again and this will become easy for both of you.

 

Oh my gosh! Thank you for all the information!

One thing I know I seem to be doing is I prick him really quickly -- put the lancet holder to his ear, prick and immediately take the lancet holder away. All is done very quickly.

I am not sure how to slow down as I am afraid Armani will run off, however, there is something I keep missing: treats! He does not give too much of a damn about food or treats (there are some he likes .. he just gets sick of them so fast) but cooking up some chicken is a great idea.

Boiling chicken breasts, cut them into little cube and then putting some in the freezer and leaving some out in the fridge is perfect. This I can do!

Armani is really not getting rewarded as much as he deserves!

I am actually quite good at giving injections -- whew. I had a kitty with Cushings years ago and they had me give her insulin. I also was in a rescue group and would give vaccinations. I am a little rusty but not nervous about it at all. It's the pricking for blood that seems to be getting me.

I think I might be too tentative in my movements and might need to lovingly take more control. I actually think I could do this without turning him into a burrito (famous last words, huh?). Good to know there is always that option.

I can exercise him more -- and will. Maxi (the baby) likes to dominate the toys, however, he has gotten much better with sharing so I need to start getting those fun toys out that they can chase. Sometimes, Armani only grabs at it while he is on his side, however, he uses a lot of energy to grab -- he grabs with his entire body -- and it is a start.

I have him off kibble and eating wet food during the day. I have a pet/baby scale I am using to monitor his weight. So far, it has stayed the same (which is weird to me ... you figure he would have lost at least a little weight).

 

How about some non-food treat ideas?

 

try slowing down the lancet poking part. i think that suggestion was in with our lancet device instruction and someone here also suggested it. i think it must work a bit like a tourniquet - the cover on our lancet device has a ridged area, so if you're holding it down firmly i think it helps the blood pool. then you poke and hold it there for a few more seconds, and it helps it well up. see if that helps.

if the lancet is making him nervous, try desensitizing him to the clicking by clicking it at random times when you aren't poking him. some people click it right by the ear.

punkin LOVED the boiled chicken breasts. give tiny bits as a treat and that's enough, even if armani wants more. that keeps it special and also won't affect his blood sugar.

holler if you need help!

 

Yes! Slow down the lancet part. I know I rush through it!

I have been massaging Armani's ears -- he is more receptive in his left ear.

I am learning how to passively (yet strongly) wrap him like a kitty burrito. You get him used to the towel by putting him in the middle of the towel -- just laying down -- and put down food, or treats (or chicken breasts!) in front of him at the tip top of the towel.

I need to shave his ear as I cannot see the vein even with a small flashlight. He has black hair on the inside of his ears. He is going to love that!

Thanks so much to Donaleen for opening up her home to me and letting me watch her test Ozy. I could see first hand how to do it .. successfully.

Armani lives under the kitchen table or behind the couch. He hates being picked up, therefore, it is very hard to transport him from room to room; or even out from under the table and just in front of it.

I pick him up and he squiggles and squirms and I immediately let him down. I want to put him on the bed -- as Donaleen did with Ozy -- and have that be his testing area.

 

Tamara, I test Ozy wherever he is. I put him on the bed so you could see better.

In the beginning when it was new, I did test him a lot in an arm chair because he was more contained/confined without feeling overly confined. I meant to tell you that.

 

Hi Tamara,
I'm also in the Portland area, although further south than Donaleen (Wilsonville actually). I'm so glad she was able to help you. My Tootoo was tough to test at first too, but now he jumps up on the bathroom counter (our testing spot) whenever I go in the bathroom, and waits to be tested. I guess he figures a small ear prick is worth the massage and treats he gets. Sounds like it's going better for you now. I understand how stressful it can be. You came to the right place for help, as you've probably figured out already.

Debbie

 

I test my boys wherever they are lying. My Tiggy would definately not take well to being "put" anywhere as everything has to be on his terms. If he is under something I quickly pull him out along the floor enough to reach an ear or even move the furniture a bit if need be so his head is poking out.

 

Hi guys. I haven't written in a while because I am still having trouble with the home testing. I feel like such a loser!! I so appreciate everyone's comments replies. I just feel with all your help I should be further along. I will keep you all posted as to my progress. keep your fingers crossed!

 

You do what you can. While you continue working on the blood testing, report on the secondary signs to let us know how he is doing.

Water consumption - measure how much is drunk per day. even with other cats, you should see some reduction with this as he becomes more controlled.

Hunger - voracious, get out of my way, appetite can be uncontrolled diabetes or hyperthyroidism.

The 5 Ps aka "Whole Cat Report":
Purr
Play
Preen/groom
Pee - patch size/characteristics (odor, color); ketones? Glucose? (KetoDiaStix, or generic)
Poop - normal/diarrhea/constipation/color

 

Thanks for the reminder, BJM.

I did read about these in the link from your signature but promtply forgot.

Armani's water consumption remains the same -- no more, no less -- as it was even before he was diagnosed. This is why I was so confused about the dianosis. But I will continue to monitor.

Armani's hunger remains the same -- nothing voracious, kind of only eats to live. Not all that interested in food until at night when he meows for a little no carb Young Again kibble. He does get 2-3 feedings of wet food through out the day. He eats about the same amount of those as he always has.

His purr is constant(!); he still loves to cuddle and knead.
Play -- I need to do more of. Will do some after complete this post.
Preen/groom -- yes. Still does.
Pee -- I have three cats and need to follow Armani to the litter box to make sure which tinkle is his. So far nothing smells off. No big big deposits either.
Poop -- normal consistency, light brown healthy color.

Whew. At least I feel like there is something I can do.

Was thinking of shutting him in the bathroom with me in order to test him. Was wondering your thoughts. I just cannot get him to stay with me so I can get the blood but I do not want to scare/stress him out either.

Thanks ..... : )

 

I've always preferred the bathroom as a testing spot. Smaller room, door that closes to keep the other busy body cats out, yet big enough to move around in and have a place to store the testing supplies in a drawer or closet.

 

Dont worry - some cats are easier to test than others - you arent alone. The good news is that the ears do "learn" to bleed. There is a scientific term for it which escapes me right now. So as long as you are poking, it will get easier!

However he sounds very squirmy. Can you wait till he is snoozing? Have you been practicing just giving him frequent ear rubs and treats and nothing else?

Wendy

 

I am working on treats he does like: petting, play.

Someone had mentioned boiling a chicked breast and cutting it into small cubes. I have done so and Armani likes it. My question is: do I just put some out from the fridge and let them come to room temp before I give them to him? What is the best way to warm up? They hate things out of the microwave .. no matter how briefly it was in there.

Secondary testing items show all is fine -- except for that damned neuropathy.

 

Try warming up a heavy ceramic plate with some hot water, then put the treats on that. Should gently warm them a bit.

 

Great idea! Thanks.

 

It's called angiogenesis. ;-)

BJ's idea about warming a plate is good. I sometimes do that when I'm feeding them food that has been in the fridge...if they're patient enough. But usually, my cats don't seem to care about temp at all when it comes to food. :lol: Will yours eat it cold?

Also, have you had a chance to look into the methyl-B12 (zobaline is the cat version, but I use the human one) for the neuropathy?

 

tamara, i'll be in portland on saturday and could come help you if you're still having trouble with testing at home. did you ever get the blood sugar numbers from the tests that the vet did? if you haven't gotten them yet, could you call and ask them? Numbers are everything in how we advise on treating a diabetic cat. it tells us the story of what's going on in the cat's body.

if his blood sugar is in diabetic ranges, he really needs to be treated. it's very hard on the cat's body to have blood sugar in high numbers for any length of time.

send me a pm if you want help - i'd be glad to stop by.

 

all righty. so that didn't get us too far, but i'm not giving up yet, tamara!

Donaleen made a comment to me that sparked a thought. what about trying feliway or Rescue Remedy to calm him down? I had some and wish i'd thought to bring it. You can get both at any pet store.

the Rescue Remedy is a liquid that you can add to his food. I gave punkin a dropperful (he was about 14lbs) and it didn't phase him, but just a few drops around the mouth of my civvie, Anya, knocked her out. If you can get that and try it - start with a medium dose cuz he's such a big guy and work up. see if it will relax him enough to let you test. i don't remember how much this cost, but i want to say around $8-10ish, maybe.

The feliway you can buy as a spray can or as a plug-in slow release. the can is a lot cheaper, which is what i have. the plug-in is around $40ish. It emits the pheromones that say "happy cats are here" and calms cats that way. i haven't seen great success with it, but others have. i'm not consistent about using it with these kittens and anya is still all worked up about them.

i reread your post here and am wishing i'd watched you try instead of me trying. since you've been able to poke at all, i would just keep trying. the poking alone will stimulate more blood vessel growth and it will eventually get so that it bleeds without you having to massage his ear.

I'd also start giving the zobaline immediately. the pill pockets that are for dogs "Duck and Pea" are safe for diabetics. i'd assume the treats you have are not safe for diabetics and switch to the chicken breast instead.

did you get a chance to look at the link in BJ's sig line on other ways to monitor blood sugar? It's a good list (great job, BJ!) She includes the link to the crystals i mentioned to you that can be put on the litter. i added the (and lentils) because I have used them instead to test the urine for ketones. it's another option instead of aquarium gravel. you just want something non-absorbent.

Here's a bit on feline neuropathy. it says the only known cause of it is untreated diabetes. http://www.vetinfo.com/feline-neuropathy-explained.html#b

 

(Thank you)

The Purina Glucotest is available through our shopping partner Amazon (link at top of page).

If you use a clumping litter, you may need to break the clumps apart to check the results.

If you have multiple cats, unless seen urinating, you don't know which cat it is, although the likely candidate will be the identified diabetic.

 

Hi, Julie (BJM and all),

Thanks so much for coming over yesterday. I hope you had a nice dinner with the family and that your son did enjoy his first day on a new job!

I have tried both Feliway and Rescue Remedy (in fact, I have a bottle of RR in my cabinet as we speak). Neither did anything for Armani. Which makes me so sad. He is such a great cat and yet such a beast to test/treat. Donaleen had suggested maybe I sedate Armani for the first few testings. I do have a prescription medicine my vet prescribed for him ... I have written her an email to see if she recommends me using it for this situation, how much I can use, etc.

I am really upset today as it has really hit me how much pain Armani must be in. I guess I was in denial previously.

I don't know ...

Yes, BJM, if I cannot separate the kitties at least I can test the tinkle and it will be obvious who the diabetic is. I have been watching them lately and notice where he usually goes in the box. One of my boxes is huge and it would be no trouble telling the puddles apart. However, I need to get him to go in the box with the special beads in them or plastic wrap over where he usually goes. Am I understanding correctly? That once it has hit the litter the sample has been compromised?

I feel I have a lot swimming around in my head this evening so if I have missed or misconstrued anything please feel free to let me know. I so appreciate everyone's input and assistance. Poor Armani. I am starting to fear I have not been doing all right by him.

 

Hi, Tamara. Glad you are posting about what is going on and getting some support.

I did say maybe the vet could prescribe some sort of relaxant but I have no idea what it would be. I don't know what that stuff you have even is. Don't use it without talking to the vet, please.

donaleen

 

would you check with the vet to see how much Rescue Remedy might be ok to use? I gave Anya (about 8 lbs) 3 drops tonight in a spoonful of food, made sure she ate it before giving her the rest of her dinner. She's calmed down and is snoozing in the living room with the kittens around - like a glass of good wine with dinner! i'm just wondering how much you gave him and if it would be ok to give him more until you see some calming.

but you did say you have been able to test him, just not gotten blood. i'd keep trying with it. every poke is an investment in getting blood to come sooner.

there's no point in beating yourself up over it. i understand exactly why you're skeptical about the diagnosis. I would also have expected the excessive drinking, peeing & hunger. That neuropathy is your only visible sign, but i think it's speaking about what's going on. just move on from here - you obviously love him no end! See what you can do. If you can get any blood, you might scrape it off on your fingernail, then you can take your time with the meter and getting it tested.

:YMHUG: you're doing great. just hang in there!

 

'Nother idea to help reduce the fidgets - if there are no medical contra-indications for it, wear him out with a good 15-20 minutes of really active play an hour or so before testing to see if that'll help settle him down for testing later.

 

Heres some tips for catching pee: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub

 

Great catching tinkle ideas (I love the thought of making a little tray out of foil! Or covering the entire box with a white garbage bag) and reminder to exercise. Julie had Armani going when she came here with Da Bird!

I took out Armani's favorite toy and played with him some more. Maxi can be very pushy and get Armani out of the way so HE can play (at other times he is very giving!) so I just lock Maxi up -- which he hates but we do what we have to do!!

 

i think this is one of those things that you just keep trying ideas until something clicks and work. giving up isn't an option, so we'll all just keep brainstorming with you to try to figure out a way to get that big boy tested and getting his insulin!

let us know how things are going and what you next need help with! lots of ideas and experience with tons of different cats among the members here on FDMB. something will work.

 

Thanks!!

With all of you on my side I can't go wrong .. neither can Armani!!

 

How many times is it OK to prick an ear lobe in a day? (Sounds like the beginning to a riddle!)

Armani just loves the boiled chicken breast (as do my other kitties!) so it is easy to get him where I want him, however, poke though I might, I have not been able to draw blood.

I know it is pricking him cuz he jumps a little. I then gently fold his ear lobe and keep moving it around trying to find the blood. I even scrape my fingernail across his ear to try and see if there is something I am missing. I then massage his ear lobe and also hold the place where I think I pricked him so there is no scar tissue.

Also, his ear lobes are warmed so that should help things.

I tried several times tonight but garnered nothing so we are resting until tomorrow.

 

I used to have a "poke 3 times and quit" rule, but now Mikey doesn't care how many times I poke him in a row. Of course, I've gotten a lot better since we first started out testing almost a year ago and I usually get blood with the first poke. But every now and again (usually with a combination of his cold ears, using a different ear, and/or my occasional incompetence), I'll still sometimes end up poking him about 5 times before I get blood.

As to how often over the course of the day, I leave it up to Mikey. Sometimes, he'll come to me every hour on the hour to be tested and sometimes I'm lucky if I can wrangle him in for just a pre-shot test. I always try to make sure I get at least his pre-shots, a mid-cycle (if possible), and a before-bed test. If I've been doing a lot of testing throughout the day, I'll sometimes switch ears if he lets me (he doesn't like me testing his left ear too much and it has never bled as well as his right). Either way, he'll let me know when he's done with the testing for the day and I'll leave off him if I'm not worried about him dropping low.

 

If you absolutely, positively, must get blood, aim for the vein. Just be prepared to blot quickly as it can bleed profusely. One good shake of the head and the room looks like an abatoir!

 

i agree with BJ - if you can't get it with a typical poke (and remember it will take a couple of weeks of many daily pokes before you consistently get blood) just hit the vein. make sure you staunch the blood afterwards so it doesn't scar.

Tamara, it sounds like you're doing everything right. be persistent and you'll get there. Jojo, the former guru of this site used to say "Be the tank. A tank always gets where it's going." you want to get where you need to go, so just keep it up. i've poked punkin as much as 20 times in a day. they really do get used to it.

give him a treat after you've tried and put on a slick of the neosporin with pain relief that you have. it'll take out the sting and he'll forgive you.

good job with the whole thing! you're going to get there!