New dx, and hello

Hi everyone .

My 10 y/o kitty was dx'd a few days ago. He developed diabetes while recovering from a pit bull attack. He's had a rough summer.

I have a good vet. She is smart and knowledgeable and open to home testing and stuff. I think she will work with me on whatever I want to do.

I'm reading here, and trying to get a clue .

I started kitty on 2 units 2x/day yesterday. He's doing well on it, perked up a bit but still low key. (He was previously acting like a very sick boy.) I don't have meter yet.

My biggest problem is that I need to be away for 8 months starting in a month. I may be able to put it off till 2 months. I will be camping for the first few months, and then living in my tiny RV over the winter. Am trying to figure out whether to take the kitty with me or leave him with trusted caregivers. MANY plusses and minuses to both options. It is not immediately clear which will be better and least stressful for him.

So, that's my intro. I'm glad you all are here .

 

Welcome to FDMB, the best place you never wanted to be.

There are 4 things you'll need to manage your kitty's diabetes:
- You - without your commitment, the following won't work.
- Low carb over the counter canned or raw diet, such as many Friskies pates. See Cat Info for more info. If already on insulin, you must be home testing before changing the diet.
- A long-lasting insulin such as ProZinc, Lantus, BCP PZI, or Levemir.
- And home blood glucose monitoring with an inexpensive human glucometer such as the WalMart Relion Confirm or Target Up and Up (the pet ones will break your budget!).

 

Thank you, BJM .

 

When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to your signature? It will help us give you feedback.

Editing your Signature

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Add any other text, such as
your name,
cat's name,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
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any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.

 

And we have a few folks who have taken their cats on travels and camping. It depends on the cat and how accustomed to travel and new experiences it is. It is possible to desensitize a cat so that travel isn't stressful.

 

Looking into foods. He loves FF classic chicken, so that is fine. But I have not been regulating how much dry food he eats along with it. And I switched dry foods a month or two ago -- from Royal Canin Adult Fit to Evolve -- that is, not long before he developed diabetes.

 

Welcome to FDMB
There are only 2 low carb dry kibble foods in the US:
- Evo Cat and Kitten with 8% calories from carbohydrates, found at specialty pet stores and online
- Young Again 0 carb with 5% calories from carbohydrates (as we calculate it) available only online.
That said, we recommend feeding only low carb canned raw food, per Dr Pierson at http://www.catinfo.org

 

Thank you so much for all your help!

This worries me because I have already changed his diet.

In order to be sure he eats before the shot, I switched to giving him FF twice a day instead of once, and more of it. AFAICT he now eats very little of the dry food, so he is getting significantly less carbs. I also gave him a sardine with the first shot, because he was so sick he would not eat his FF.

Plus I only switched to Evolve in May, approx.

I can rent a meter from the vet for $10/day (!) and will buy one as soon as I can get to Walmart. If I start with just testing once a day, when is best to do it? We gotta work up to this gradually, M and I .

 

Reading more, I see that 2 units is higher than the forum recommends for a starting dose. The vet called it low .

Without testing, I'd say his reaction looks like a low dose. He is a little perked up but still not to his normal energy level.

 

Tesing the nadir will let you see how low he is going, and help you keep him safe.
He should remain above 68 mg/dL on a pet meter or 50 mg/dL on a human meter.

Testing before shots helps keep him safe by not shooting below 200 mg/dL on a human meter or 230 mg/dL on a pet meter.

Give a low carb treat after testing, even if unsuccessful; this will associate something pleasant with the process so he doesn't avoid you.

Practice on a piece of fruit or yourself first, to get a feel for the timing of the process. I used the WalMart Confirm Micro and put the strip halfway in, then prick, push the strip in, test, and blot firmly to reduce bruising and clotting.
Make sure the ear is warm.

If you absolutely must.get.blood you may prick the peripheral ear vein directly; just be prepared to test quickly and blot as it may bleed profusely.

 

Hi there! Yeah, 2 units of ProZinc is quite high to start, usually .05 to start and then increase as needed. If your kitty isn't used to travel, it could cause him enough stress issues that his numbers would always be high, which would cause you to have to give more insulin. But I admit, we sometimes have to travel with our sugarbaby too, he hates it.

 

Where did the 0.05 starting does come from? Did you mean 0.5 units twice daily?
The usual starting does in 1 unit twice daily

 

Sorry, yes, I meant 0.5 twice daily. My vet started Goof with 0.5 his BG at time of dx was 652, he's now OTJ.

 

Wow, that is low!

Reading more, I see that his nap one hour after each dose may be a sign of too much.

I got a Relion Confirm, tried it on myself, will try it on him tonight before evening dose. He is mellow in the evenings .

That will be 2 hours from now... I may try to pester you folks then, if anyone is up!

I am sooooooo grateful for this forum.

 

As we note, no shot below 200 mg/dL until you have data showing it is safe.
We have a protocol for ProZinc you may find helpful, here.

Please - always write it as 0.5 units or 1/2 units to be really clear on the dose. This will help us give you better feedback.

 

Am I correct in understanding that too little blood might give a low reading but not a high one?

I did the test an hour before shot time, because I was fading fast and figured I needed to be awake for this, and that early was better than not at all.

I am NOT convinced I got enough blood, but reading was 306. That was on my second try and I didn't want him to get mad and resistant. I am in this for the long game . He is still purring.

Edit: I plan to give his usual 2 units in an hour, after some food, unless you folks tell me otherwise.

 

Whenever you get a test that seems off, re-test. With the Confirm, the new test strips really help funnel the drop for testing.

 

I'm trying to be gentle with myself. I have some pretty serious health issues of my own, and am trying to accept that I will not be perfect.

 

The fact that you're dedicated to getting it right means a lot. We all do what we can-when we can, as this roller coaster ride will drive you nuts otherwise. But don't be afraid to ask your vet a lot of questions and if you don't feel that they're being answered well enough, tell him/her so. I'd ask why starting with a rather high dose of ProZinc, it's more than double the usual dose to start.

 

Thank you .

 

I used a magnifying glass to inspect the strip i was not sure about. An empty strip has black and white bars. On a used strip, should the white bars be red?

Also, is this Intros forum still the right place for this thread, or should I start one elsewhere for my newbie questions?

 

I am composing an email to my vet, and find I want to ask you folks first:

It will take me two or three weeks to work up to testing multiple times a day, between my health issues and his. Would it be bad to switch to, say, 1 unit BID instead of the prescribed 2, if I am only testing once a day? Or should I stick with 2 units BID until I get testing working well?

 

You could definitely start a new thread in Health. It might mean new different eyes. You will get dosing advice only from ProZinc users as every insulin works a little differently. Have you seen the protocol we put together for ProZinc? It may be helpful. It's in blue in my signature.

Also it would be good for you to have a spreadsheet. It is great color coded document to keep track of your numbers. Nit is great for you and your vet and for us, if you want dosing advice because it gives a history of his numbers and doses. The instructions are here

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/
If you need help with it, just ask.

Re your last question, no. Once a day won't work. It would mean he would be in lower ranges for 12 hours and then high ranges the second 12 hours. Insulin only lasts 12 hours in cats. You could lower the dose to one unit twice daily.

Let us know what kind of issues you are having testing. We have lots of ideas to help. When you can, the test before the shot is most important for ProZinc so you don't give insulin to a number that is too low. The number 5-7 hours after the shot is ideal because it gives you an idea of how low the insulin takes him so you can adjust the dose. But the pre shot number will help keep him safe until you get better.

 

You could move to the ProZinc forum, there aren't as many on it as the Lantus forum, but most will follow you there anyway.

 

You'll get better at testing the more you do it, and the insulin only works for 12 hours, so it's better to try to stay on schedule.

 

Thanks, everyone .

To clarify, I am NOT considering doing insulin only once a day! Repeating from my post above:

In other words, 'test once, shoot twice'.

 

Sorry, misunderstood. Yes, definitely a reasonable and safe idea to go down to one unit while you are working on testing.

 

Thank you .

Hmmm... I hadn't heard back before the morning dose so I went ahead and gave him the 2 units. next dose is at bedtime. I can try to test first, but I am super sick, so I would not be able to monitor him through the night. Next two days I am working.

Is it better to give him half the dose he has been on, when I won't be able to watch him for long after (about 15-30 minutes maybe)? Or better to stay at 2 units until I can be around more?

I can take breaks and check on him while working, but cannot make sure he will be visible when I come by. He does not tolerate a cage and usually hides when sleeping.

 

If he were mine, I would reduce to one unit BID. My thinking is that, with a bit of a food change (which can reduce the levels) and your not being able to test as often, I would start low. It is better to be too high for awhile than too low for a minute. Whatever tests you can get in will give you some idea of how the one unit is working. But he drops low, you won't be able to do the monitoring required to keep him from hypo.

One unit is really what we'd suggest - regardless of weight (doesn't matter in cats like it does in dogs) or number n vet office. (Very likely influenced upward by stress) - for every cat. You can always raise the dose if his numbers indicate. You can't get the insulin out of the cat once shot.

 

Thank you, Sue, for explaining the logic to me. Very persuasive and helpful!

I've got him cuddling now, and it's around nadir time. I could probably test him now, but if I do then I would not want to do it again before his pm dose. I don't want to give him the idea that all cuddling leads to being prickled. I did get some lidocaine cream, though.

So, better to test now, and see what 2 units did, or later, right before evening shot?

 

I think the pm preshot is more important at this point. You want to be sure he is high enough for insulin.

Do you give him a snack after poking? That is the trick to testing, getting them to associate the poke with something they want.

 

Ok.

Well, so far I am doing it during cuddle time. He is one of those cats who gets verrrrry blissed out.

I am also hoping the lidocaine cream will make it less of an issue. He did kinda yelp yesterday, but went right back to purring. I only have so many hours to spend cuddling kitties . His appetite is also spotty right now, so I save the treats for shooting time.

He is a mellow cat, so I am pretty sure we can work it out. I just don't want to create a trust problem by poking him 10x on the first day, y'know? Right now he is willing to put up with a lot because he trusts me.