new here and at a total loss

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by insane2001, Aug 3, 2015.

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  1. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    hi this is the first time i have ever used a forum my cat tom was diagnosed diabetic 6 weeks ago the vet incressed his insulin to 3.5 last friday on saturday afternoon he just went down hill and just lays there he is of his food i can just about get half the daily amount in him so i can inject him not being horribile to my vet he does not seem to know what is going on now i am really stressing out with this and no were else to turn i am so worried that my little furry friend is so ill and i do not know what to do to help him any idears on how to get him to eat i have spent over £30 on diffrent foods in the last 3 days sorry for the bad spelling not very good with keyboards thanks
    gary
     
  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Gary,

    If I were you, I would go out to the pharmacy and get a human meter and test Tom's blood glucose levels. He may be getting too much insulin or too little. We can help you learn to do it. You'll need a meter that takes a tiny sample of blood and 25-27 gauge lancets to poke with. Once you know his glucose levels, you'll know how to help him.

    Where are you - in the UK? We have lots of members there who can guide you as far as food choices that will help lower his overall levels.
     
  3. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    hi thanks for the reply just going back the the vets with tom then i will go to get a test meter will check back later many thanks i am in essex
    gary
     
  4. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Gary,

    I'm in the West Country. I'm sorry to hear that Tom's feeling so poorly and that he's off his food. We'll do all we can to help you.

    Is Tom on Caninsulin? Also what foods have you been trying to get Tom to eat?

    Please let us know how you got on at the vets. Did they check for ketones as well as blood glucose levels?



    Mogs
    .
     
  5. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    just got back from vets yes tom is on caninsulin 3.5 twice a day thee vet could not check for ketones as could not get him to wee blood glucose levels were 20.8
    just cant seem to get them down hes got to go back tommorow i have tried just about every food on tesco and pets at home shelves now just getting streesd out
    because my little friend wont eat dont know what to try next its not about the money i will sell the car if i have to he comes first
    gary
     
  6. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    That isn't an awful high number, especially since he was at the vet where, because of stress, cats can often be 100 +points higher than at home. (In case you are reading other's threads, we use US numbers here rather than metric, so we multiply your number X 18.).

    So, right now, is your main concern that he won't eat? Did he like his food before and now is off it or have you introduced a new food? We have lots of tricks to get him more interested, and even instructions for syringe feeding if needed.
     
  7. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    tom use to eat everything he could get hold of his and his brothers plus any scraps but since saturday i have been almost spoon feeding him and he is so lethargic is not normal for him wont even play with his favriot toy a lazer pointer or eat a chew which was his favriot so under the us numbers he would be 3744 that sounds so much worse but i need him to eat or i cannot give him his insulin the whole thing seems to be a viciuos circle
     
  8. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    the only thing he will eat a little of is james wellbeloved biscuits the one i am trying to wean him off
    gary
     
  9. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    So does he normally eat wet food or dry?

    The 374 is not an awful number, particularly under stress at the vet. Lots of cats start out over 400.
     
  10. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I went through a similar experience with Saoirse when she first started insulin treatment. I really feel for you. It's frightening when you can't get your cat to eat.

    Do you have a 24-hour chemist near you? If yes, give them a ring and ask if they have any urine test strips for testing ketones. If they have any in stock, I'd be inclined to go grab some and test Tom's urine. It's just to be on the safe side, but at numbers in the higher range and with a cat that's not eating I think it's wisest to test for ketones - tonight if at all possible - so that we can rule them out.

    Also, if you're going out and there's a Sainsbury's, Morrisons or Asda near you, I'd suggest trying to pick up a box of Sheba Fine Flakes in Jelly Poultry Selection pouches. They are very low carb (less than 2%) so at Tom's current dose you will need to feed him the James Wellbeloved as well to make sure he gets enough carbs to go with his insulin. I've suggested this particular food because my girl has pancreatitis and struggles with a lot of foods. She gets on well with this - it's quite bland and fairly easily digestible.

    Does that sound OK to you?


    Other things to try (if you haven't already):

    * Encore chicken selection small tins (Sainsbury's) - low carb - need kibble too.
    * Applaws chicken small tins (ditto on the kibble).
    * Chicken breast - poach in water or cook in microwave and chop up finely (ditto on the kibble).

    Things to sprinkle onto cat food:

    * crumble up some of the Wellbeloved kibbles and sprinkle them over the wet food (warming the wet food for 10 seconds at 40% in the microwave can help - remember to give it a good stir after heating).
    * Parmesan cheese - finely grated over the food.
    * the water from a tin of human tuna in spring water
    * crumble over some Thrive freeze-dried protein treats (Sainsbury's do them, not sure about Morrisons or Asda).



    Mogs
    .
     
  11. Mogmom and Goofus

    Mogmom and Goofus Well-Known Member

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    Dec 9, 2014
    You could try cooking some chicken and giving that to Tom, or some cooked ground beef. Is he drinking? If not, he could be dehydrated which would account for the lethargy. If you pull his fur up around his shoulder blades does it snap back? If not, you may need to try to give him some some water by syringe into his mouth.
     
  12. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    tom is drinking ok loads at a time tried chicken yesterday and tuna i have sheba in the cuboard wont eat it my other cat max loves it all his favriots going spare
    i managed to get a little whiskas grilled in to him this morning but only a quarter of a pouch he have a few james welbeloved just now but not much he just sits there looking at me with very sad eyes it brakes my hart to see him like this i really wish had sppoted the problem earler i phoned the lat chemist at tescos but they do not carry the strips so will have to phone around in the morning he has even givern up chasing max his faveriot pass time normally i am really greatfull for any and all help i will try anything now he can not be like this and i am sorry about my very poor spelling many thanks
    gary
     
  13. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Sometimes they will eat human baby food. I don't know which brands you have in England; we usually suggest Beechnut as it has no onions or spices. You might try that. This sounds silly, but sometimes they will eat off your finger if they are feeling bad.

    Did your vet say anything about nausea meds?
     
  14. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    @Sue and Oliver (GA) - I couldn't get anywhere trying to find a plain baby food over here. They've all got weird and wonderful marketing-friendly additives in them, or lots of vegetables. Here's a typical selection. A lot of them have onion, too, so are no good for cats.

    Gary - steer clear of Lily's Kitchen foods: they're too rich.

    .
     
  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Gary -

    What dose was Tom on before your vet increased it to 3.5 units Caninsulin (presumably twice a day)?

    Was Tom OK and feeling better on the lower dose? Was he peeing less on the lower dose? Did he have more energy on the lower dose?


    Sorry for firing so many questions at you, but until such time as you can get a blood glucose test we need to try a bit of detective work.

    .
     
  16. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Well, shoot. Guess your babies' palates are more sophisticated than ours
     
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  17. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    hi i dont know about the baby food i will have to look at that one thanks and no the vet said nothing about nausa meds but did give tom a antibiotic just in case its something else but i dont think it is tom was on 2.5 insulin up till his second injection on friday when he incresed to 3.5 he was ok to start with on 2.5 but by friday he was peeing about the same but he was becoming more and more lethargic many thanks
    gary
     
  18. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    There is no way of knowing why he is feeling so crummy without seeing his numbers during a cycle. It might be that he is getting too much insulin. There is a phenomena called bouncing. If he drops low somewhere in the cycle, his body senses a low level and releases extra glucose. Then he bounces back up to a high number. This can make him feel real lousy. Getting a few tests in will help you figure this out.

    It could also be that he has DKA. The way to see that is to get a ketone test. I do think your vet could get one. If the cat won't pee, they can use a needle to get a urine sample. If going back to the vet is not an option, I would try another druggist. Certainly most stores should have ketone strips - human diabetics use them to test their urine. If it is DKA, he needs to be under the vet's care. The symptoms include an infection, inappetite and high glucose levels.

    If I were you, I'd go to the druggist and get a meter, lancets and ketone strips. Then at least you can eliminate some things.
     
  19. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Gary - I'd steer clear of the baby foods. My cat has appetite problems and I looked at all the baby foods generally available in the UK. A lot of them have onion and that is harmful to cats. The baby foods also tend to have an awful lot of other ingredients that are either bad for or toxic to cats.

    It is dangerous for a cat not to eat. I really think Tom needs veterinary help. Try to get as much of ANY cat food or plain chicken Tom will eat into him as you can for now. Ring the vets as soon as they open and try to get Tom in to see them today as early as possible. Try to grab a urine sample (you can put some cling film or a plastic bin bag over his litter to collect a sample) and bring it in to the vets so that they can test it.

    Can you please look at this page about nausea symptoms and see whether Tom is showing any signs described on the page. Let your vet know about any of these signs you observe.

    If Tom is nauseated your vet should be able to give him a Cerenia injection to help with that straight away. For help with treating nausea at home, ask your vet about a drug called ondansetron. If he agrees to prescribe it ask for a written prescription for GENERIC ondansetron, and NOT Zofran. (Zofran is the branded version - costs nearly £100 for 30 tablets. You can get generic ondansetron from Boots, Morrison's pharmacy, etc. at £10 or less for 30 tablets.)

    Also ask your vet about an appetite stimulant for Tom, for example cyproheptadine (brand name Periactin). A small dose is best. Saoirse weighs approximately 10 lb/4.5 kg and did well on 1/8 of a 4mg tablet once or twice a day (too high a dose tends to make cats drowsy/lethargic.

    If Tom is nauseated and reluctant to eat then he will need BOTH anti-nausea and appetite stimulant meds.

    Please can you send us an update when you're able, Gary? Worrying about your little fella.
     
  20. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    hi just got back from the vets there keeping tom in for today to do a urine test and blood glucose and a ultra sound on his tummy to make sure there are no lumps inside got to pick him up at 17.30 now i am going to phone round all the chemists to get a meter and test strips etc i did manage to get him to eat some meat last night fresh turkey breast chopped up very fine and some of his wellbeloved biscuits no luck this morning though so i had to take him to the vets without his injection so now just waiting and stressing all day until i can pick him up his brother is looking everywhere for him its a shame i cant explaine it to him many thanks for the advice and comment will be looking in to all of them to see if i can inprove toms heath many thanks
    gary
     
  21. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    somthing i forgot to ask what is the best and easyest test meter to get there are somany different ones out there some with test strips some without any thay differ in price by a lot not that i care about that if its an expensive one so be it if its best for tom many thanks
    gary
     
  22. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Anything by Abbott or Bayer is likely to be a decent meter, so it comes down to the cost of the test strips (that's where they make their money!)
    Find one with a 0.3 nL (very small) blood drop and reasonable test strip costs, figuring you'll be testing befor each shot, before bed (so you can sleep knowing the cat is OK!), and when possible, during the likely nadir period of the insulin being used.
     
  23. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Sorry I didn't get to reply sooner, Gary.

    I went for an Accu-check Aviva. You should be able to pick one up in Morrisons, Boots, etc. You can get deals on test strips on ebay and also it's quite popular so if you ever need to buy strips in an emergency you should be able to find them locally without difficulty.


    Mogs
    .
     
  24. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    ok thanks there are so many difrent ones just got him back home nothing showed on the ultra sound vet has taken more bloods to send to the lab and take him back on friday poor little fella hes going to end up hating me at this rate many thanks
    gary
     
  25. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    He may be a bit miffed for a bit but he won't hate you, Gary. :bighug:Cats are smart critters - as they start to improve they soon cotton on that all the fuss 'n' bother and human behavioural weirdness has something to do with them feeling better.

    Good news about the ultrasound. Was your vet able to test for ketones today? Also did your vet give you anything to help Tom with his appetite problems? Is eating any little bit better for you today? (((Tom)))

    .
     
  26. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    no he does not hate me YET all he want is cuddles witch i dont mind the vet did take a urine sample it was clear hes been put on antibiotics a liqud he does not like it and i have to take him back friday morning but no luck with food the vet did not want to give him a appitite stimulant until thay know what the problem is so have to wait for the lab results so i am going to try some liqidised chicken then i can feed him by syringe if i have to he just looks so sad all the time just laying looking out the window or cuddled up to me i just want my old tom back but this is starting to look like a long haul but we will get there
    many thanks
    gary
     
  27. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Ye will get there, Gary. It's clear that you and Tom have a wonderful relationship and love each other very much. :)

    At each meal I'd suggest offering the food to him and seeing what he makes of it himself. If he's not having any, dip your fingers into the kitty chicken soup you're making (tepid temperature is good) and see if he will lick some off your fingers. Sometimes that can get a cat going and they then eat a little themselves. If he still doesn't want to know then you can assist feed.

    One trick that can be useful is 'sleepy eating'. Prepare a little serving of your kitty chicken soup while Tom is having a snooze. When it's ready stick it down in front of his face wherever he happens to be (sofa, bed, floor) - maybe put a paperback book under the dish to raise it up a little (helps when a cat is queasy). Then wake him up. In general, cats will readily eat something eat immediately upon waking.

    Again I suggest checking out the nausea and appetite symptoms link I gave you yesterday. If you see any of the behaviours (e.g. sniffing food but not eating, licking a bit then leaving it, 'making faces' or lots of unusual lip licking after tasting food), make a note of them and then tell your vet. There are treatments available for nausea (Cerenia injection from vet, generic ondansetron for home use) and they really help a lot if nausea is causing the unwillingness to eat.

    Please keep us posted with how you're both getting on. It's really hard when your cat won't eat (been there). Don't be alone with this. A bit of moral support really helps.


    Mogs
    .
     
  28. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

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    Jun 24, 2015
    Hi Gary: I won't add alot, because you are probably overwhelmed with all the reading right now.
    Just to say that you are in the best hands ever with Critter Mom and Sue and Oliver. You can rely on them to steer you well.
    I read your posts about your efforts and love for your sweet friend Tom and I see an OUTSTANDING person that I would love to know in this World.
    Your spelling does NOT matter one iota here, with anyone.
    I see a person not focused on unimportant grammar, but rather the loving care of his FRIEND.
    Don't worry about apologies here. :bighug:
    All the best Gary.
    -Brenda
     
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  29. Brashworks

    Brashworks Member

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    Jun 21, 2015
    Hi Gary and welcome. Sorry you have to be here but pleased to meet you. Like Brenda says, you are in excellent hands - I am thinking "eat-eat-eat-gosh-Tom-look-how-good-that-poultry-is" thoughts for you.
     
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  30. MarcieK

    MarcieK New Member

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    Jul 29, 2015
    Check on Amazon for your meter. In the USA the alphatrak start up kit is price at $60.00. Also, has your vet drawn blood for a complete chem and CBC?
     
  31. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    I'm about to scoot off for the night now, Gary. I hope you'll manage to get Tom to eat a bit for you.

    BTW, what's Tom's brother's name?

    .
     
  32. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    hi thanks for all the comments advice and support i have recived here it means a lot to me to know there is someone esle who has beenthrought it and in some cases made through to the other side my goal tom is the other side of this i managed to make him eat 160 grans of liquedized turkey its his favriot meat he looks a bit happer i dont know what tests toddays blood samples were form i was so relived that toms ultrasound was clear i did not hear all the vet said i was to busy fussing tom toms brother is called max there not blood brothers max is 2 years older hes 7 hes big black and very handsome they dont really get on very well tom torment the life out of max indoors but outside max is king we also have a stray that lives in a kennel in the back garden max does not like him in the house i say it a kennel it a 6 by 4 shed with heating he arrived 18 months ago with a lot of his teeth twisted and leaking puss £450 pounds later he only has 7 left dont know how old he is the vets seem to think around 12/16 i call him wizzy because when he wees he just sprays up in the air hes very very friendly i ahd to order a blood meter i get it tommorow i only live in a small town and quite often have to order stuff in or drive to chelmsford once agian thanks for the support
    many thanks
    gary
     
  33. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Wizzy! Like it. :D Sounds like the poor fella really went through it before he found you. Quite a furry family you have there, Gary. They are blessed to have you as their person. :bighug:

    I am ***delighted*** to hear that you managed to get a really decent feed into Tom. Well done, that man! :cool: Keeping fingers and paws crossed he keeps that up. When you can get a decent bit of grub into them it can break the cycle and they gradually start eating better.

    Good news on the meter. I'm agoraphobic so I get all of my diabetic supplies online. I use a pet glucometer for Saoirse but I like that I have the Accucheck Aviva as a backup because if ever I were to run out of strips I can get the Accu-check ones from several local pharmacies (and they're w-a-y cheaper online - double-check the expiry date on strips if you're ordering from the likes of ebay). You can get much cheaper lancets for home testing online, too.

    Just in case you haven't found them yet, here are some forum guides to home testing and giving injections:

    Home testing links and tips (with how-to videos)

    Tips on Testing and Injecting (good diagram of the ear on this one)

    Blessings to you and scritches for your furry ones.



    Mogs
    .
     
  34. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

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    Jul 30, 2015
     
  35. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    hi thanks for the links have watched some of the videos not all yet tom has spent the day eating very small amounts but at least evey 2 hours not ideal but he is eating and so he should after 3 sleepless night then he wont let me pick him up this morning so i over streached and fell out of my wheelchair had to wait about 1 hour for my daughter in law to come and put me back in my own fault really should use the electric one indoors not the manual one because it rolls away did not pick up the meter was not well enough after this morning to go up to boot in town to pick it up looked at the videos really worried about hurting him with the lancet but i will have to learn prob get bittern a few times until i get it right he sulked after his antibiotic this morning it was 3 hours before he would come neer me many thanks for the links will get round to watching them all
    gary
     
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  36. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Gary, I'd suggest you start slowly. Decide where you are going to test him. Some people use the kitchen counter; some use the bed or a couch. Take him there, get him praise and mess with his ears a little. Then a treat and let him go. After a few times of that, add warming his ear. (Fill a thinnish sock with raw rice and knot, warm in microwave until very warm. Hold it next to his ear for 30 seconds or so.) Praise, treat and release.

    Meanwhile, practice with the meter/lancet on yourself or a willing friend or even a grape. Be sure you are comfortable getting the strip in the meter. If he ever moves away after the poke, you can get the blood drop on your fingernail and test from there. Finally, take him to the testing spot, warm his ear and poke. It isn't always as easy as it looks in the videos. It may take you a while. But each time, he gets a treat. 3 pokes And if unsuccessful, everyone gets a treat and a rest.

    Take a flashlight and put it behind his ear. Find the vein that runs along his ear. You are aiming for the little capillaries that come off the vein.

    Another thing that really helped us was to use a larger gauge lancet (25-27guage). It makes a bigger hole until the capillaries fatten up and learn to bleed.
     
  37. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

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    Aug 3, 2015
    thanks for the advice i will have to try on a few grapes first i am needle phobic so it wont be on me have been rubbing his ears for a few days now to try to get him used to me touching the quite firmly not hard but hes taken to hiding around injection time hes found a spot that i cant find so having to shut all upstairs doors about 1 hour before hand there very smart critters did not know they could tell the time
    many thanks
    gary
     
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  38. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for additional observations you might make to evaluate your cat, while you are working on home blood glucose testing.
     
  39. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

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    Jun 24, 2015
    Gary, you have got me chuckling this morning with your comments about Tom, telling time, etc. Gads, they're smart! Look at all the plotting & planning we go through to hatch a scheme on them! Hours of it!!..for one little move!
    I just wanted to say that when I first started planning to do the testing (only a month ago) I was thinking, " oh my god, how will I get all these moving parts going smoothly!?"
    After watching the videos several times, I assembled everything I needed in a cheap plastic bin, with a lid! Having your toolbox ready & organized made me more confident, in a way.
    Firstly, I got myself familiar with the meter and strips and how they work, and what I'm looking for. I decided I better keep the instruction book IN THE TOOLBOX. (Now I don't need it much)
    I practiced the mechanics, or motions, if you will with a pillow on my lap (as if it were the cat!) just to get the "feel"
    Then I sort of had an idea of where I could position my meter, lancet, strips that might work once I had a moving cat in my lap. I had to sort of imagine it. :confused: But at least I was building my confidence. That's the important thing, not just for you, Gary but because Tom will "read" you, as you know! As the actual testing progressed, I modified things as it became necessary ( you will too!) and do it completely different now.
    "Necessity is the mother of invention" :)
    Believe me Gary, Tom will not be nearly as traumatized as you think! Once you find the sweet spot on his ears, he will tolerate that quick stick,wait for his praise or treat and be none the worse for wear. Just routine.
    As smart as you KNOW they are, they quickly realize this weird stuff is making them feel better.
    Sue gave some excellent advice. I have faith in you and your dedication to Tom's health and I know you can do this. Just trust the process, it will all smooth out quicker than you think!!
    All the best Gary
     
  40. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi got the test meter my youngest just dropped it off on his way home from work they wont let me out after yesterday now just got to work it out and pluck up the courage to do it hes not trusting me at the minuet the only thing i can not find is some sort of table of whats good and whats bad and when to panic does anyone know what corn syrup is and where to get it never heard of it myself it so i can make a hypo kit ready just in case i never want to use but best be a little perpeard also are the numbers on the meter the same for cats as is a human meter many thanks
    gary
     
  41. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Hiya Gary..now since Tom isn't have any today..why not just fiddle around and get comfy with the meter? Also, maybe have a go at the "quick" instruction insert ..it will have definitions of some of the possible error codes you may get. Like, if you maybe put the strip in wrong-end , or "not enough" blood etc. It helps if you kinda go over in calmer moments! ;) Just fiddle with it!
    Here's a bit of comfort: After just a short time, I was able to barely use the little heat pads on the ears..merely rubbing nicely in the sweet spot area, and the blood came easily, then on. Still does.
    Plus Gary, I would've never believed it but I can perform the test in my sleep nearly. Many times I've had to stumble out at 3-4am to test and in 2 minutes I'm back to bed.
    You and Tom will get to be veterans at this in no time.
    In case no one answers...karo syrup is just a corn sweetener. You can use honey. Or anything that has a high concentration of sugar.
    Just think of your goal..to quickly raise his levels to safety.
    Let me know how you get on with your practice Gary
    All the best.
     
  42. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Forgive me Gary! I forgot something. As far as a "good & bad" list.. Do you mean levels or readings? We have a spreadsheet that is in Google. Are you familiar? Do you have an iPhone or smartphone you are posting here on? I believe I can get someone to set it up for you, since you said you're not Mr.Keyboard Warrior.
    Then, when you are posting your results here, the veterans can access it and THEN they can and will, advise you on dosages,problems etc.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/
     
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  43. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

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    Jul 30, 2015
    Gary, you can generally find the Karo corn syrup in the grocery store along with honey and the fake maple syrup/pancake syrup.
     
  44. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi nothing to forgive i do have a smartphone but i use my desk top when downstairs and laptop upstairs phone screen is to small and is a six inch screen press 1 letter get 6 not nibble enough for text and email on the phone but i am not good with computers my eldist son makes me have one so he can keep a check on me
    many thanks
    gary
     
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  45. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi thanks for that i will look tommorow when i go to tesco if i am allowed out tommorow many thanks
    gary
     
  46. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Corn syrup = Golden Syrup (the Tate & Lyle stuff). You can also use honey, or liquid glucose (comes in a tube - should find it in supermarket baking section). Make sure you have this above all else before you give Tom any insulin.

    If you were to measure a sample of cat's blood with a human meter, the reading will be lower than if you measured it on a pet-calibrated veterinary meter. The human meter is absolutely fine to use: we just use different reference range numbers to accommodate the difference between the meters. Right now the most important number for you to know is the hypo threshold for a cat whose BG is being measured by a human meter.

    Hypo threshold on a human meter: 2.8 mmol/L (UK) / 50 mg/dL (US)

    Make a note of this number on your printed copy of the How To Handle Hypos instructions. (Read, read, and read again so that it becomes second nature and you pretty much automatically know what to do should Tom ever go low.)

    Sorry to hear about your tumble. :bighug: Hope you're OK now. :)


    Mogs
    .
     
  47. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi and good morning just got back from the vets with tom his lab results on the urine tests were all clear but still waiting for the blood test results .
    i have also had a very heated argument with the vet over home testing she does not advise it but could not tell me why i am now thinking mabie its time to change the vets and am thinking there just getting me to keep taking tom up there for the glucose curve because i always pay on the day or in advance one of the vets said they went on a diabetes course for one day after tom was diagnosed i am starting to wonder if i am just a cash cow for them there is no reson i can see not to test at home so cross there treating me like a idiot they see the wheelchair and think i have no brains not the case body might have let me down but my mind is still strong very confused at times but strong dont what to do now been with them for 7 years thought i could trust them sorry for the rant just so cross
    many thank
    gary
     
  48. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    sorry after all that tom is eating ok little and often i am at lest greatful for that
    gary
     
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  49. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Good Morning Gary. Very glad to hear Tom is eating for you. That's a relief for now in all this. Celebrate the victories!
    Really sorry to hear about your vet. That's more stress to stir into the pot, isn't it.
    My vet was the same way, and if you look about on these forums you will see it is very common!!
    You have trusted this vet for, you say 7 yrs, so I wouldn't be too quick to think it's the chair my friend.
    From what I've read here, many speculate that the vet possibly feels a tad threatened in the ego department by your newfound knowledge!
    On the other hand, she should have had a good reason for you not to test! And should have worked with you abit better with your strong wishes.
    I'm looking forward to hearing Critter Mom on this!
    If you should decide to change up vets, there is a handy list available for interviewing new vets we can get for you.

    Sorry your day started out poorly! Hoping it improves as you sort things out
    ( at least you were allowed out of the house today :))
     
  50. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    You rant away, Gary! Wouldn't be the first one here to do so. ;)

    First up, let me say how pleased and relieved I am to hear that Tom has got his appetite back! That is such great news, and I'm sure that you must be feeling a lot better too as a result. :D

    Some vets are progressive about home testing, others are positively hostile towards it. A good question to ask them is whether they would advocate giving a young child insulin without testing the child's blood glucose or having some idea of how much their insulin dose might lower their blood glucose.

    Also, testing at home removes the risk of 'vet stress' influencing blood glucose levels. When cats get anxious travelling or during the surgery visit it really can send their BG levels soaring. It isn't, therefore, the most reliable data upon which to base dosing decisions. Doing curves at home also saves a lot of money. We're lucky with our vets. Our main vet reviews Saoirse's spreadsheet online and he prefers not to bring cats in to the surgery unless absolutely necessary because it is better for them not to be subjected to unnecessary stress.

    I can really relate to your frustration at being talked down to by your vet. I've been through similar experiences with vets at other practices than the one we're registered with now. I have severe PTSD, panic, agoraphobia, and OCD. I don't venture out unless it is something life-threatening for my Saoirse. I get very, very anxious at the vets (not helped by worry about my girl) and I also have terrible problems with pressured speech. The mouth works OK but what comes out of it at times is very jumbled. When I first took Saoirse for a consult when she started drinking too much and pulling fur out of her side the vet just wouldn't listen to me properly (even though I explained that anxiety made it very difficult for me to communicate). She refused to run any diagnostic tests and dismissed all of my observations about Saoirse's obviously poor clinical signs as being "completely normal" for "an old lady." I was just dismissed. I felt that she just treated me like a hysterical cat mama, and that because I was so anxious she gave no proper consideration to my valid concerns about Saoirse's poor health. I was so frustrated and angry!!! I went back to them a couple of weeks later, this time armed with a page of data showing that Saoirse was drinking more and more every day, and also a journal of observations of her appearance and behaviours. I demanded tests, in spite of being really scared; my girl needed me to help her. Saoirse was given the preliminary diagnosis of diabetes before the end of the day. It should not be this hard to get veterinary support!!! :mad: I wanted to home test and asked the diagnosing vet to recommend a meter. She refused point blank to give me any advice. I was scared for Saoirse and so angry and upset that I couldn't get proper support. That's when I joined FDMB. So glad I did. It has helped me to become a lot more confident in my dealings with vets because I can sound things out here first. :)

    The good news is that we're now with a practice nearer our home. They're really quite switched on about diabetes (even run a special diabetes clinic). I share Saoirse's spreadsheet with our vets. They can see from that how careful I am with her. They know that I will discuss all her treatments and her testing. Sometimes they may not completely agree with some of my choices. In particular, it took them a while to stop raising a wary eyebrow about my choice to monitor her BG levels so closely. However once we had been at the practice for a little time and Saoirse started improving they seemed less concerned. Now I just get on with it and we just don't mention the matter. :D

    One thing I really like about our main treating vet is that he is open to discussing things with me instead of dictating what I should do; and he'll research things I'm interested in trying, too. If I find a treatment I think might help Saoirse we review the pros and cons together and then I make my decision about whether or not to go ahead with it. I think over the last year we have built up a trusting, successful relationship. We are partners in Saoirse's care, and it makes the world of difference. I know that you really like your current vets. Once get one of our spreadsheets going for Tom and get your test results into it, you'll be able to show your vets the and it will prove that you know what you're at. (One of the members here can help you set up the spreadsheet. Just let us know when you're ready. :) ) Hopefully if you can get past the 'diabetes teething stage' with them you might be able to create a good partnership with them to get the best results for Tom, as I've managed to do with our vets for Saoirse? I hope so. :)

    One final note about vets. It is vital to have good cover and support from whichever vet you choose to help Tom with his diabetes. There's no running away from the fact that diabetes brings certain risks and potential health complications such as hypoglycaemic episodes or problems with ketones (can lead to diabetic ketoacidosis - DKA- a potentially life-threatening complication of diabetes). A good out-of-hours service is very important, whether it be that you need to get advice about Tom out of hours or whether he may need to visit the surgery out of hours to receive emergency treatment. Check your transport options for emergencies, too. It is also vital that you discuss any additional treatments you wish to give to Tom, including any dietary supplements. As you learn more about how to treat Tom's diabetes and you've learned to work with his insulin, you'll probably find that once your vets are confident that you know what you're at you'll be able to manage the diabetes with minimal veterinary intervention (usually just routine reviews of how well-regulated Tom is).

    Sorry for rambling. PTSD's really bad at the moment and I'm not able to edit myself. Be sure to give your little furry family lots of scritches from me. And here are a few :bighug::bighug::bighug: for you.


    Mogs
    .
     
  51. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    thanks for the reply sorry about the rant i was so angry it took me 4 goes to get the vet to admit i was right and tom was ill he was pulling his fur out they just said it was nerves but i know my tom better than that i had the same when max was ill 2 years ago i am going to look for another vet i dont think they have left me any choice there is no night cover with them also i cant prove it but tom had a hypo on his 2curve with the and the vet said to me we gave him his jab but i had allready done it before we took him up and we told the he had his insulin they dont seem to listern sorry about the pstd i had 2 years of that in 1985/86 not nice took 3 years to find what it was but i cant stand being talked down to i am disabled not brain dead think i would get used to it after 10 years in a chair befor that they looked at me i was 6feet 5 inches the now about 4foot 2 inches i have found a vet with a 24 hour clinc going to have a look on monday its only 5 miles away and i can drive still i have a converted car as long as the kids let me out its like being 12 years old again at times but they take the keys if they dont think i am well enough to go out any way many thanks for the reply take care
    gary
     
  52. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Gary,

    How are things going with yourself and Tom? I'm sorry I didn't get back to you over the weekend. (GP has me on beta blockers at the moment and my brain is even mushier than normal.) I'm very sorry to hear that you've suffered from PTSD, too. :bighug: I can also relate to your frustration at being talked down to. It irritates me at the best of times that certain of the professions use the fact I have an anxiety disorder to treat me as though I had been lobotomized; but when they won't listen to me or take me seriously about my Saoirse it absolutely infuriates me! Grrrrr ... :mad: I can also relate to 'life before' and 'life after'. I had an accident and I truly can't believe how different - how unrecognisable - my life is now as a consequence.

    I had similar problems to you with our previous vets when Saoirse started pulling her fur out. "Stress," came the Dx. I thought it was pain causing it, and I was right. Well done you for sticking to your guns. Whereabouts is Tom pulling the fur from?

    How did you get on with checking out the 24-hour vet practice?


    Mogs
    .
     
  53. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi not been on here over the weekend what with 4 children and 10 grand children life gets a bit mad when thay all desend at the same time number 11 due next week
    tom was pulling fur from his tummy and his back legs all i got was its over grooming and stress butt i know my cats better than that took 4 goes at the vet to get them to look deeper but i am a stuborn git at the best of time and a total hard case at the worst so i did get my own way and was right
    i have not been over to the all night vet yet will get there this week think we may have turned a corner with tom starting to see the old anoying tom back in little bits not seen him for 4 months nice to see him playing not sleeping
    i have not managed to do the home testing yet tom does not like his ears touched so i keep rubbing them so he will get used to it the kids all tested there blood glucose though all good
    yes i had ptsd the year i left the army kept getting flashbacks to the falklands war in 1982 in did not know what the hell was going on thought i was losing my mind after about 2 years of it at a reunion for the 5 anivesery a friend told me i was not on my own and took me to get help once again i owe that man my life he saved me in ireland in 1984 not a nice place to be then
    i try not to think to much about life before 2005 and consentrate on now and the future or i would just lay down and give up not a good idear
    i hope all is well with you and yours
    gary
     
  54. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    there was a question i wanted to ask i was reading a post on here secondary monitoring tools about the 5 ps have you read it the first 4 ps fine the one about pooing not sure tom always uses a litter tray even if he is outside he come in to use it always has although he is eating more there is not very much poo in the tray not sure if this is anything or if i am just worrying to much and reading to much in to it any idears many thanks
    gary
     
  55. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Feline Constipation

    When you have a moment, could you add a few tidbits to
    your signature? It will help us give you feedback.

    Editing your Signature

    In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

    Click on your ID.

    On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
    This is where you will put information that helps us give youfeedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by |or -.
    This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
    Add any other text, such as
    your name, cat's name,
    date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter
    general location (city and state/province)
    any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
    Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

    Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have

    changed anything.
     
  56. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi i have done the signature as you asked i dont know if i have done it right if not please let me know and i will have another go at it not very good with computers bad when you think my eldest is a computer consultant
    tom does not seem to be drinking as much as he was just a little worried about how much he is pooing when you see how much he is eating also going to see another vets this afternoon not happy with mine its just a fight to get them to see it my way will let you know how it goes
    gary
     
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  57. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Congratulations! You have got your signature completed!
     
  58. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    Hello Gary and Tom!
    Waving 'Hi' to you from a rather cloudy Surrey.

    You obviously care for Tom very much. He is blessed in having you as his friend and caregiver. :bighug:

    How did yesterday's vet visit go?
    And I'm glad to hear that Tom is eating.
    Once you've started hometesting you should be able to transition him to a lower carbohydrate diet that may help his diabetes. But it's important not to do this until you are OK with testing his blood glucose. That's because lowering the carb content of the food can lower the blood glucose, and the insulin dose may then be too much.
    Here's a link to some general UK food info that might be useful for you in the near future:
    UK Diabetic Cat Food Info (including link to low carb food list)

    There are a handful of UK members currently on the forum. And there a couple from Essex, I think. It may be that someone near you could help you learn to hometest. Gonna tag Julie @Julie and Alice to see if she lives anywhere near you....
    I see that you are touching Tom's ears to try to get him used to that prior to actually hometesting (good idea - that worked really well for my Bertie!). Are you rewarding him with a little treat or cuddle each time you do that? If they are rewarded cats can soon learn that having their ears touched is a positive thing. ;)

    Eliz
     
  59. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi the vet visit did not go that well they dont like home testing so wont be changing to them what is vets problem with home testing i thought it would make there life easyer with more dater to work with from a unstresed cat
    i am not toms caregiver i am his human slave he squeeks i come running (if i could run)
    still can not get him used to having his ears touched he pulls away if i try to much he will take a swipe at me thats why his nick name is satan claws
    i have to pop up to the vets this afternoon to pick up some syringes and will try to have a word with the other vet see how he feels about home testing
    the avitar is both my boys toms is the one on the table max is on the chair one of the few i have of them both together
    is canisulin posin to humans i only ask because i stuck my self with the needle this morning none went it but not something i ever thought about before just like to know for future reference my hands can be a bit shaky and tom moves the second time its happerned sorry for the poor spelling many thanks
    gary
     
  60. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2010
    :D Ha-ha! You're in good company here, Gary.

    I'm sorry the vet visit didn't go so well.
    My vet was also not keen on me hometesting initially. But I did it anyway, and after a while the vet completely 'changed his tune' and came to respect and trust what I was doing. He'd just never had a client who'd hometested their cat before. Maybe your vet is the same..?

    Many of us have pricked ourselves with our cat's insulin syringes, and to date I've never heard of anyone who suffered an adverse reaction. So please don't worry.
    There was even someone here who was diabetic and accidentally gave herself her cat's insulin by mistake! She phoned the hospital for advice and I think they just told her to monitor her blood glucose and watch out for any unusual symptoms. (I'm pretty sure she could hear people laughing in the background....:D )
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2015
    Reason for edit: Typos
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  61. SpecklesandMe

    SpecklesandMe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Agree- the prick should not be harmful to a human.
     
  62. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    the only prick was me not being careful i did not inject any thing in to me i was just wondering if i had injected myself by accident if it was harmful not that i intend to do it again
    the real problem is i am needle phobic they terrify me jsut being a woose many thanks
    gary
     
  63. SpecklesandMe

    SpecklesandMe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    From Elizabeth's previous response, sounds like if you inject yourself with it, it might make your blood glucose go down.
     
  64. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    While you work on testing, there are some other assessments you can make to help evaluate how he is doing. They are listed in my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools. The most important one is measuring wtater consumption. There is an older protocol using some of these tools to manage the diabetes.
     
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  65. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    i dont know whats going on with tom his mood has changed jeckel and hyde he is runing away from me never done that before and is growling like a dog when i go to inject him also hissing and spiting at me do not know if he has the hump with me or a side effect he seems normal every other way hes never been like this before maybe its me and i am reading to much in to it
    i printed the secondary monitoring and read it the other day thank
    gary
     
  66. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Some cats don't feel well on Caninsulin/Vetsulin. That may be sufficient to let you try Lantus instead.
     
  67. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    whats the diffrence between them please my vet told me the only one avable in the uk is caninsulin is this not true sorry for poor spelling having a confused day many thanks
    gary (least i got my name right i think)
     
  68. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    The difference between what to insulins? Caninsulin and Vetsulin are the same but are soldin different countries under different names. In the USA it is called Vestulin, In Canada it is Caninsulin.
     
  69. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi thanks for the reply my vet said 4 weeks ago there was only one kind of insulin in the uk for cats reading on the website this seems to be a mistake on his part i understand canisulin and vetsulin are the same product diffrent labels what i dont understand is what are lantus and pzi and are they avalable in the uk the vet also said that australia had the better insulin for cats just need to know if he is wrong whats the diffrence between them or is he just leading me up the garden path they talk about getting tom in to remission or at least trying to then object to home testing and now i am not sure there telling me all i need to know to make the best and informed choices for my little mate tom sorry for being so thick having a lot of problems getting my head round it all so much to learn and take in and remember many thanks
    gary
     
  70. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Actually, unfortunately, he is right. Vets do have to prescribe Canninsulin in the UK first. (I have never understood why but maybe people have run into this). What he can do, is if you can prove the Caninsulin isn't working, he can prescribe either Lantus or Levemir, or they have a long lasting PZI insulin that has worked well for @Elizabeth and Bertie . So, you might ask him to look into this, offer your spreadsheet numbers and behaviors you have observed as evidence and see if you can switch.

    The complication is the testing at home. We need to help you figure put a way to accomplish this. I think you could probably fine tune with the Caninsulin (and you would need to with any of the others) to get him in good ranges and keep him safe. Where did you decide to test him? Was it on your lap in the wheelchair? If so, I wonder if you could try the kitty burrito. You wrap them up in a towel with only their head showing, offering treats of course, so you can hang onto them and their claws are not out.
     
  71. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Gary,

    Sorry I haven't been on your thread for a few days - haven't been feeling so good and struggling with side effects from yet another ultimately unhelpful med. :rolleyes:

    Firstly I just want to say that my heart goes out to you over the PTSD. I often say a little prayer for people like yourself who developed it as a consequence of serving in the forces. Mine is bad but I can only imagine that your experience of it must have been so much worse. :bighug:

    Secondly, sounds like you've got quite a brood over in Essex! I'm glad that you have your family around you - even if they keep half-inching your car keys! ;) Shows they care, and that's the main thing. :)

    Love Tom's 'Satan Paws' monicker. I'm sorry you're having a tricky time with testing. Are you giving Tom any treats at testing time? Freeze-dried protein treats such as Cosma Snackies (available online from www.zooplus.co.uk) or Thrive treats (definitely carried by Sainsbury's and probably by other major supermarket chains) are diabetic-friendly and cats usually really like them. If you could get hold of some then you could try desensitizing Tom to the various steps involved in testing over a few days.

    1. Handle his ears frequently during the day - without trying to test him - all as part of normal contact. After you've rubbed his ears a little, give him a protein treat and lots of praise.

    2. Take him to his test station, then give praise and a treat.

    3. Take him to his test station, then rub his ears. Follow this with praise and a treat.

    4. Take him to test station, then smear a little Vaseline on the ear. Warm his ear using a rice sock or other gizmo. (. Give praise and a treat. (No test yet!)

    5. Repeat the action/praise/treat routine with getting Tom used to hearing the lancet device clicking (if you're not freehanding with the lancet itself); then the meter beep.

    6. If all goes well Tom will hopefully start to view the various steps in the test procedure as an overall positive experience. (My human does all this weird stuff but then I get something r-e-a-l-l-y yummy!) Then you can actually do the ear prick.

    7. Even if a test attempt fails, always give the treat and the praise.

    One of the trickiest parts of this is trying not to get anxious oneself when having difficulty trying to test because our little ones pick up on our nervousness. I had to pretend to myself I was doing swimmingly in the early days even though I was messing up left, right, and centre; but it helped Saoirse to be more relaxed about getting tested and eventually we found a technique that works for us.

    Of course, all of this is complicated by Tom's response to the Caninsulin. My guess is that it may be making him feel a bit cruddy. I'll write more on that later.

    BTW, any news on the latest addition to the family?


    Mogs
    .
     
  72. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi in answer no i dont do tom on my lap the wheelchair freaks him out these days it never use to he would ride around on my lap all day but at the moment he is still not trusting of me every time i close the doors so he cant get out he runs and hides still can not find where he is hiding it think its in the spare room and i can not get in there as its being done up for me i normaly do him on the ajustable work surface in the kitchen i tried wraping him in a towel got the scars to prove it
    the vets i use has two vet a man and a woman the woman does not like home testing have not asked the man yet but last time i saw him he was going on about getting tom in to remision if we can i have a appointment on the 21/08/15 for a glucose curve i am hoping to see him then and talk to him about it if not i will ask there reasons why not
    tom also used to ride on the stair lift now the bleeping when its on its way down freaks him out dont know why hes turned in to a scardy cat
    still no sign off the new grandson yet we recon it will be this week as she never goes full term always a week to 10 days early
    its never the drugs they give you its always the side effects then you need another drug for the side effects and so on and so on never ending circle
    i dont think about the pstd any more managed to lay my ghosts to rest in 1992 on a return trip and found i dont remember my dreams any more thats a good thing i have lost 7 friends that could not get through it
    i change toms lancet for the single ones not the ones in a drum so he can not see them we have had a few practice runs but not taken a blood sample yet as i am having a problem injecting his insulin at the moment hes being very awkward and fighting me hissing spitting and trying to run away hes never been like this before this only started a few days ago i thought i may be hurting him but been very careful and its not that need to sort that out first tried treats but hes not a cat that can be bought off
    still playing with his ears hes seems ok with that and i have just ordered some of those cosma snacks a mix pack see wich ones they like cant give one with out the other
    any must go max has just brought me home a live snake now i have to go a let that go many thanks
    gary
     
  73. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Maybe see if you can find an upper level student interested in veterinary science to come learn how to test and get experience helping with a diabetic cat?
    Try asking at local high schools (the last 4 years of school in the US) , colleges, perhaps a church if you belong to one, or off duty vet technologists/assistants.
     
  74. insane2001

    insane2001 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    hi just a update on tom he now has pancritus hes been keeped in the vets all day on a drip /pain killer /anti acid /anti sickness i am now more worried than ever just as i thought we had made a breakthrough he was coming for his insulin and just letting me do the injection no problem now this i know very little about this problem i had a quick look for info on this site but did not see any i know its there just cant find it
    on the up side i got to see to other vet at my surgery he supports home testing just does not want me to use a human meter he checked out my insurance and he is getting them to pay for a proper cat one and get the test strips on repeat just as well i took out the insurance they recomended
    tom is off his food again so i am mixing hills perscription critical care with a little water and syringe feeding him little and often he seems ok with this he likes it so its see how he goes over the weekend and back on monday morning and the vet is going to teach me how to do the blood glucose test if any one knows anything about pancritus i would be very greatful for the info or a link to were it is please or what sort of food he might eat i tried the turkey pate i made last time but he was just being sick with it poor little fella i am so worried as i know this can be very dangerouse sorry about the bad speling just not with it
    many thanks
    gary
     
  75. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    Hi Gary. Sorry to hear that Tom has pancreatitis. I don't know anything about that, why don't you post a new thread on the feline health main forum. You'll get more looks there
     
  76. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
  77. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Gary,

    Sorry I haven't visited your thread in a while. It's great that you've now got a vet you feel more comfortable with but I'm really very sorry to hear that Tom has pancreatitis. My cat, Saoirse, has chronic pancreatitis. Below I have given details of things that helped her through her major flare last year.

    If Tom is finding it harder to eat it that is likely down to nausea and/or pain. Here's the nausea symptom checker from Tanya's Site that I found very helpful. There's a page on pancreatitis at that site, too.

    First up, elevate Tom's food and water dishes so that he doesn't have to bend down to eat. (Stick a few paperback books or similar underneath them.) If he'll take some water mixed up with the food that will help with hydration. If not, you need to get vet input on how to keep him properly hydrated. You can check for hydration by pulling up the skin on the scruff of the neck: if it 'snaps' back into place then hydration is most likely OK; if it's slow to return to normal then he may be dehydrated. Also you can check his gums. If they're slightly sticky that indicates dehydration, too.

    Vet Meds & Supplements Checklist:

    - generic ondansetron for nausea (Zofran, the branded version is crazy expensive) - a must-have. NB: for the UK the Bristol Laboratories generic ondansetron is recommended for cats by experienced caregivers. It's a human medicine so if your vet can't get the generic from their wholesaler (our vet couldn't) you should be able to get a written Rx and have it filled at Boots, Morrisons in-store pharmacies or other chemist. I pay less than £10 for 30 tablets.

    - cyproheptadine for appetite stimulation (small doses can work better (e.g. 1/8 4mg tablet 2-3 times a day for 10lb cat) - larger doses can cause too much sedation and somewhat depressed mood) - also a must-have.

    - famotidine or ranitidine for stomach acid (may not be needed but very good to have on hand). Famotidine only needs to be given once a day. Ranitidine needs to be given twice a day.

    - Course of weekly VITAMIN B 12 injections - once a week for several weeks (check IDEXX pancreatitis treatment guidelines for how many weeks initially and also maintenance) - another must-have.

    - buprenorphine for pain relief. (Saoirse does better on small doses - <0.1ml for 10lb cat ad hoc, max 2x per day suited her at height of flare - higher doses disagreed with her in a big way and made her very lethargic, but every cat is different).

    - Flagyl or Stomorgyl 2 for diarrhoea if present (antibiotics - both contain metronidazole). Our vet prescribed the Stomorgyl 2 for Saoirse because apparently it's not quite as foul-tasting as the Flagyl.

    - Pro-Kolin for diarrhoea - kaolin paste with probiotic.

    - Nutramed (UK Only) - anti-inflammatory herbal supplement (boswellia, milk thistle, maritime pine bark).

    - Liver support - check the IDEXX guidelines on supplementation with Denamarin or similar and discuss with your vet. The liver and pancreas are side by side and inflammation in the latter can irritate the liver also. (I give Saoirse Hepatosyl 50.)

    Note: ondansetron and buprenorphine can cause a little constipation.

    I can't emphasise strongly enough how valuable it is to keep a stock of ondansetron and cyproheptadine at home from now on so that you can address any reappearance of nausea symptoms or lack of appetite straight away; it makes a huge difference.

    Food and Water:

    - Fluids (preferably through adding a little to each meal), else consult vet about alternative methods.

    - Feed small, frequent meals - something highly digestible helps. I fed Saoirse chicken breast gently poached in water, minced finely and served with a 50-50 mix of the poaching broth and water. At the height of her flare last year I fed her 1 tbsp minced chicken with 1 tbsp water and 1 tbsp broth every hour, 24/7. Timed feeders are invaluable for dispensing food when you need to get some rest. Even if appetite improves, keeping to mini meals (not necessarily as frequently as 1 every hour) during the height of a flare puts less strain on the pancreas.* Gradually I managed to wean Saoirse onto Liquivite liquid recovery food and that helped keep her hydrated as well as getting the full complement of nutrients she needed. It's a soupy consistency with a high moisture content (c. 90%) so it's suitable for syringe feeding and helps with hydration.

    - Slightly warming food (c. 10 seconds at 20-40% in the microwave - stir and check for hot spots before serving it), or sprinkling it with crumbled up chicken Cosma Snackies or similar treats can make the food more tempting.

    - Going forward, any changes to diet should be made cautiously; ideally only one slow change at a time.

    - Some pancreatitis kitties are quite sensitive to the fat content of the food, but not all. For what it's worth, Saoirse is not overly fat-sensitive and after 9 months of food trials I finally found a food that she tolerates quite well. It's Sheba Fine Flakes in Jelly Poultry Selection. She also got on relatively OK with Smilla Kitten Food with Chicken (from zooplus.co.uk). Both are very low carb (<2% kilocalories from carbs) so if you're feeding a higher carb food, you should check with your vet and also make sure you're able to home test before making any food change (otherwise BG could go too low).

    I strongly recommend you avoid feeding foods with carrageenan listed as an ingredient. It can inflame the GI tract. (I didn't know about the problems with carrageenan last year and I fed Saoirse a low carb food containing carrageenan and that triggered her major flare. It also upset my other cat's stomach.)

    Hope some of the above helps or gives you some ideas to try for Tom. I truly hope he feels better soon. If there's anything else I might do to help in the meantime, just tag me. Pancreatitis is tough on both the cat and their person; it is a bit of a roller coaster but with the right supportive treatments and food it is manageable. Saoirse was very, very sick last year at the height of her flare, but she got a lot better once the treatments started working. The key is to keep Tom eating and getting enough fluids while the medicines help him. The Liquivite food worked a minor miracle for Saoirse. They do trial quantities of small numbers of cans.

    Is Tom still being treated at the vets? Please send us an update when you can to let us know how you're both doing, Gary. :bighug:



    Mogs


    (PS: I'm glad that you got past the PTSD stuff. :bighug:)

    * Lantus (insulin glargine) may be a better choice for a cat with pancreatitis because its gentler action profile can work better when a cat needs lots of small meals during the day to ease the strain on the pancreas. The UK drug cascade rules permit prescription of insulins other than Caninsulin if the Caninsulin doesn't work for the cat. Keep an eye on your forum Inbox (top right hand side of screen). I'm sending you a PM.

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