New Member - Desperate question about stopping insulin

Hi Everyone.

I'm new to the site, as my cat Onyx (11 years) was just diagnosed on Monday. Her BG was 433 (extremely stressed), but my vet wasn't concerned with having her start the Lantas immediately, but I did because I was freaking out (she'd lost over a pound in a month). After spending the last few days doing research, I'm now wishing I would have tried changing her diet first, THEN started the insulin (if still needed). My vet also never said anything to me about testing her at home, so I'm supposed to go back on Tuesday (a week later). After everything I've read, I see just how much the diet matters with the dosing, so I'm getting really scared. My vet is on vacation and the closest vet is an hour away. My biggest concern is, with the same consisent dose for a week (2 units), will her BG get too low now that she's not eating much (probably only eating 15-20% of what she was)? I'm going to pick up a test kit in the morning so I can see where she is, but now I'm afraid to give her tonights shot since she hasn't eaten for a few hours.

My vet also wasn't concerned with switching her diet for a while, if ever. I now know just how important it actually is. My closing question is, how bad would it be if I stopped the insulin (she's had 7 shots) cold turkey and tried to get her diet under control first? I don't see my vet being too cooperative with monitoring the dosage with the food changes, so I'm really nervous. It's gonna be hard enough to get the persnickety thing to eat the stinky wet food...lol.

Sorry for being the frantic-newby, but I REALLY appreciate any advice.
Thank you.
Brandi

 

Hey there and welcome to the board,

Its a good idea to pick up a test kit, do you need a shopping list?

What is she eating right now? Type, brand of food? And did the vet mention ketones at all? That will help us decide about tonites shot etc

Wendy

 

Hi Wendy.

Yes, a shopping list is officially underway!

He never tested for the keytones, but he felt confident they weren't present. As far as the food, she currently eats Blue Buffalo Indoor Health.

Thanks for such a quick reply.

:smile:

Brandi

 

Hello Brandi and Onyx to the FDMB, the best little message board in the universe for helping your diabetic cat.

Where do you live? country? state/province? city? So we can give country specific advice.

You said you were giving 2U of Lantus, but is that once a day or twice a day?

It's still a high starting dose either way. Most cats don't need more than 1U to start.

How much does Onyx weigh? We can calculate the starting dose from that.

You said Onyx was not eating much. How much is she eating? Is that Blue Buffalo Indoor Health dry only?

 

Hi Deb.

I live in Central Pennsylvania - USA.

2 unit of Lantus twice a day. I was afraid it was high; i get the feeling my vet hasn't dealt with it much.

Onyx now weighs around 11.5 lbs.

And yes, she only eats dry food unfortunately. I'd say she's only eating about 1/2 cup a day right now. She won't touch the wet so far.

 

11.5 pounds /2.2 kilos per pound = 5.22 kilos
5.22 kilos * 0.25U = 1.3U
Round down to nearest quarter unit = 1.25U maximum starting.

I would highly recommend
1. dropping the dose down to 1U.
2. get a glucometer and start home testing ASAP

Here is a link with a shopping list of supplies. Think you can pick these up soon?

 

You should be ok to shoot tonite since she is on dry but I would only give 1 unit especially as she isn't eating as much as normal. Starting dose is usually 0.25units per kg of the cats ideal weight.

Tomorrow here is your shopping list and we will get you home testing. Then we can start transitioning her to wet..

Getting started shopping list
1. Meter ie Walmart Relion Confirm or Micro.
2. Matching strips
3. Lancets - little sticks to poke the ear to get blood . new members usually start with a larger gauge lancet such as 28g or 29g until the ear learns to bleed. Optional - lancing tool.
4. Cotton balls to stem the blood
5. Neosporin or Polysporin ointment with pain relief to heal the wound
6. Mini flashlight (optional) - useful to help see the ear veins in dark cats, and to press against
7. Ketone urine test strips ie ketodiastix - Important to check ketones when blood is high and twice a week otherwise!!
8. Sharps container - to dispose of waste syringes and lancets.
9. Treats for the cat - like freeze dried chicken
10. Karo syrup/corn syrup or honey if you dont have it at home - for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast
11. A couple of cans of fancy feast gravy lovers or other high carb gravy food- for hypo emergencies to bring blood sugar up fast


Wendy

 

Well Deb and Wendy, you both seem to be on exactly the same page.

Thank you so much for your help.

I'll let you know what her reading is tomorrow.

Thanks again.

 

Ok cool - here are some testing tips. https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

You want to test her always before every shot to ensure you dont shoot when she is too low. Also ideally you get a test mid cycle (5-7 hours after morning shot) and again before bed. Those 2 extra tests give you information on how low she is dropping and whether a dose change is needed.

Then you want to track her results on a spreadsheet which you can share with us if you want dosing help :http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

Let us know how you get on!

Wendy

 

Thanks so much, Wendy.

So I take it you wouldn't recommend stopping the insulin for now, until I get her on the correct diet? The insulin is definitely helping, as just after the first day of dosing, the excessive drinking stopped. I was surprised it worked so fast. I'm just getting so concerend with how little she's eating. It's time for a dose, and she hasn't eaten anything since I've been up today. UGH.

 

If your cat is already on insulin, we don't recommend switching the diet until you are home testing.

With your cat not eating, home testing is even more important.

 

Since she is eating dry food and you are going to test, if you feel more comfortable you can start over her dose by giving her 1 unit every 12 hours rather than 2 units.

We typically suggest a starting dose of 1 unit or even 1/2 unit every 12 hours. 2 units as a starting dose is higher than what we suggest, only because you don't know if that really is the right amount to give or too much. We believe in the start low, go slow approach. Meaning start at a low dose, and slowly with testing over time adjust the dose by 0.25 (1/4/) or even 0.50 (1/2) unit increments. this allows you to find the ideal dose for the cat without skipping over it.

As you are learning, food and home testing are the other two key components to managing diabetes. Once you remove the dry food, the need for insulin may drop significantly (of course this may take a couple days to get the dry food out of the system).

 

She has to eat, even if that means going back to the original food for a bit. Diet changes need to be gradual to avoid GI upsets, maybe 25% different per day, if the cat will eat the new food.

It can be difficult to transition to wet food. An initial step can be switching to a lower carb dry food such as
- Young Again 0 Carb (5% calories from carbohydrate, internet only)
- Wellness Core in Gold and Tan bag (11% calories from carbohydrate)
- Evo Cat & Kitten (after 6/10/2013 - the had a recall)

Only get a small bag, as the ultimate objective is to get on canned low carb food which is better for the kidneys.

More nutrition info written by a vet is available at Cat Info

 

Thanks, Deb. I will be doing that today once I go do some Walmart shopping. I'm so upset that my vet told me NOT to test at home, and to only come there to be tested once a week. Otherwise, I would have had everything purchased before I started her shots. Just might be time to shop around for a new vet.

BJM & Hillary - the ladies suggested 1 unit last night, and that's exactly what I gave her. She hasn't eaten anything in at least 4-6 hours, so I might skip her morning does. The vet said if she isn't eating, to skip it. Might be the only helpful info he gave me. I'll go and get a bunch of different good foods today, along with the testing supplies. She HATED Friskies and ran from it, so hopefully I can find somehting that doesn't scare her away.

After I'm able to get a test (hopefully it goes okay), I'll come back and let you guys know what it is and see what I should do next.

Thanks so much everyone!

:smile:

 

remember to try all the tips/tricks for transition from dry to wet as they may help with the process -- http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitioning_D ... nned_Food_

and if she isn't eating then, until you are testing, it is safest to not give insulin. Also, when shopping be sure to buy ketostix - to test the urine for ketones - as we want to avoid this or DKA from happening and this is the best way to test for it.

 

Fancy Fest Classic pates might work and aren't horribly expensive.

Just make changes gradually!

 

If you like your vet, don't be too quick to kick him or her to the curb.

So many people won't treat their newly diagnosed diabetic cat and want to PTS (put to sleep).

So vets don't want to make the treatment too hard or too expensive or too much for the client to handle.

So my vet doesn't say anything about food change or home testing. She had us come in once per week for a BG check. (we didn't find FDMB until a year after diagnosis)

If she finds people that do want to step up and be proactive in caring for their diabetic cat - she then mentions food and home testing.

 

Good evening, everyone.

Okay, so after a day from from &*% trying to get the right meter and test strips, I was finally able to do Onyx's first test. I am happy to say, I had a beautiful draw on the first try. Testing it on myself first really helped .

So the verdict is, her score was 437 (since this is a human meter, Relion Confirm, does the reading need converted in any way?). If the number doesn't need converted, it doesn't look like the 4 days of insulin had done anything to help, even though she's stopped drinking like a fish and constantly eating (I was sure it was helping a LOT). She's still not eating much, so my original question still stands: would it hurt anything if I stopped the insulin for now until I get a healthy diet regulated first? I'm not really sure just how "bad" her diabetes is at this point, so if there's any chance eating right could help lower her BG naturally, I'd sure love to try it. (I did pick up a bunch of different "proper diet" foods today, and I will start her out slowly, if I can get her to eat them at all).

Also, I did get the keytone test strips, but I have to do some research to figure out how I can possibly do it. I rarely ever see her use the litter box. I'm sure there are some tricks.

And Phoebe, thanks for the input on the vet. You could definitely be right, becuase his first response when he told me about the diabetes, was whether or not I wanted to go "that route", and if I might want to put her down. I made it clear that just wasn't an option. So I will have a talk with him and see if he changes his approach. So thanks for the input.

:smile:

 

Nope, the reading you get is the exact number you want to record in your notebook and on your SS. No adjustments should be made to the numbers.

With high numbers like that 437, I don't think you want to stop the insulin.

Urine testing tips here. Urine Testing Tips Several people have said they have success using the aquarium gravel method.

 

Thanks, Deb. Should I just do the 1 unit you guys suggested last night, or go back to the 2 units the vet told me to do? She's still not eating much.

I'll go check out the link now so I can hopefully give that test a shot

 

I'd go with the lower dose of insulin, the 1U. You can't take it back out after you've given it.

 

Congrats on the first test!!! Thats a big hurdle for some members depending on how well their cat bleeds!

So you want to do four tests a day and track it - would love for you to use our spreadsheethttp://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207 so we can see how things progress and advise. Anyway for testing:

- Always before you give every shot. As a newbie you dont want to shoot under 200 yet until you have enough data to know how Onyx will behave when you do.
- Mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot to see how low Onyx is dropping
- Before bed - 2-3 hours after evening shot - to see what Onyx's nighttime plans are.If this number is the same or lower than the preshot test you might want to set the alarm for another test mid night cycle as it usually means an active cycle.

let us know how you get on today and what the numbers are! Also let us know on the ketone test!

Wendy

 

Thanks, Wendy. Onyx didn't have either shot yesterday since she wasn't eating, but her appetite seems better today. Since her BG level hadn't changed much in the past week, and since she didn't have insulin yesterday, I gave her a break on testing before her 1 unit shot this morning. But I will definitely do the next 3. I have a her on an 11:00 schedule, so it will differ from the norm a bit. I had already started a spreadsheet, but I will definiely look into the link you sent to track it within the community. Thanks for sharing.

I also have good news this morning. I just did 2 keytone tests (put down a plastic baggie on her usual spot), and both were NEGATIVE! YAY!!!! I was getting worreid about that once I saw folks say there kitties had keytones when thier BG was in the 300's. I'm soooooo relieved.

I'll check back later.

Thanks again everyone. You guys have really helped me this week. I'm so glad I found this site!

:smile:

Brandi

 

Hi Brandi,

This goes in your signature. You can cut and paste it if you want.
Brandi & Onyx (female,11,11.5#)
Relion Confirm w/ Lantus
Blue Buffalo Indoor Health Dry food currently, trying to transition to low-carb wet

This goes in the location field.
USA, PA, central, city?

 

Good news on the ketones!

if you ever need to "give her a break from testing" then miss the midday ones. Never skip the preshot test ever because you dont want to shoot when she is too low!

Wendy

 

Okay, Wendy. Duly noted. I didn't think there was any chance of it being too low since she was at 437 last night, without insulin all day.

So I just had TERRIBLE luck with the midday draw; she did NOT want to bleed today at all. But oddly enough, when I finally did get it, she was down to 167, six hours after 1 unit. Is that normal to drop so low after such a small amount of insulin?

 

Yes, a 270 point drop from that 437 last night to a 167 at +6 today is eminently doable. Cats can drop even farther than that in less time.

It's why we emphasize those pre-shot tests.

It may mean the dose of insulin is a bit high. 1U right now, correct? ( I had to search back in your condo to find the info.)

I'd really urge you to update your signature with some data. We like to be able to respond quickly in case of an emergency. Having that info in your signature will help us to help your faster in an emergency situation.

This goes in your signature. You can cut and paste it if you want.

Brandi & Onyx (female,11,11.5#)
Relion Confirm w/ Lantus 1U
Blue Buffalo Indoor Health Dry food currently, trying to transition to low-carb wet

This goes in the location field.
USA, PA, central, city?

 

Hi Deb.
Sorry I missed your earlier message about the signature, but I do have it created now. Though no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to get my kitties picture to upload...lol.

Glad to hear the drop in her numbers is normal. And yes, I only gave her the 1U as suggested. Considering how much it dropped, I can't imagine how low it was getting from the 2U the vet prescribed. No wonder she wasn't eating. Her appetite is definiely better today, so I am greatful for the recommendation you guys made. It was spot on!

Now I'll go try to figure out how to use the Google docs for the daily log.

Thanks again.

 

It's easy to miss things when several people have posted replies. Thank you very much for doing the signature update. It's really helpful to us.

If you need help on the google docs setup for your spreadsheet, let us know. We can help you with the set up and link to your signature.

Here is how to get an avatar small enough to put in your FDMB profile.

From over in the Tech Support forum. Avatars Look at the 3rd post down, for detailed step by step instructions.

 

Re: New Member - 1st Pre-shot BG Test

Hi Ladies.

Okay, I just did my first pre-shot BG test, and it's now 128. Since it's even lower than this afternoon's 167, and lastnight's 437, my gut is telling me not to give it to her tonight. What do you think? I'm getting nervous again.

Oh, and thanks for the Avitar help Deb. I'll give it a shot.

 

Yep as a newbie we don't advise you shoot under 200 since you don't have the data to know what she will do. So skip this one and get a test in 2 hours to see how her blood sugar behaves.


We are going to need that spreadsheet to prepare you to shoot at numbers under 200 in the future.
Wendy

 

Thanks, Wendy.

I was having trouble trying to get to the google docs thing. I've never used it. Until I figure it out, I can at least share the one I created (attached) a few days ago. I've only started home testing yesterday, so there really isn't much data yet.

Thanks for your help.

 

Do you have a google account? Or can you sign up for one? With that and a couple of pieces of information from you, I can get it setup for you. I'd be happy to do that for you if you want.

 

Hi Deb.

I do have a Google account, I just couldn't find the docs. Let me give it another shot today while I'm more awake. I was pretty out of it yesterday from all the stress from my first week with the diabetes stress, so my brain wasn't functioning properly. I'll keep you posted.

Thank you.

 

Re: New Member - Update on Onyx

Deb & Wendy.

I'll work on getting the google docs figured out today, but I wanted to share what I have; I've updated it with EVERYTHING that's happened so far.

With skipping lastnight's 1U dose, she went back up to 428.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

did you get a test between last nights skipped shot and this morning? Would have been really useful as she may have kept dropping a while.

Anyway I am thinking we need to find a dose you can give consistently so maybe you want to try her on 0.75 instead?

What do you think Deb?

Wendy

 

No, I tried so hard to stay up until 2am to do the test, but I passed out. I'm going to set my alarm clock from now on.

 

Well, the shed is probably still draining a bit from that higher 2U dose she was giving originally. She had that low number and a skipped shot with a subsequent high number after no insulin.

Are you still trying to get her to eat the low carb wet food?

I'd like to see an AM mid-cycle test and the PMPS before deciding on a dose. Not much data to work with here.

Brandi, we know how you feel with the passing out at 2AM. ;-) It gets easier. The first couple of weeks are extremely stressful, financially astonishing, emotionally and physically draining. We've all been there.

Let us know if something seems absolutely impossible to do. We will explain why it's so important or come up with an alternative. How does that sound?

 

Yes, I keep trying, but she wants nothing to do with the wet food. I've read the docs on tricking them, an withholding food, but am more confused than ever because with the diabetes, she needs the consistent caloric intake. It's so confusing.

What did you mean by "PMPS before deciding on a dose"? And I was really upset with myself for not getting the early morning test. Alarm will be set now. When you said AM mid-cycle test, I assume you meant the one in the middle of the night, right? With her being on an 11AM & 11PM cycle, her mid-cycle test from her AM shot doesn't happen until 5PM. When I do the shot overnight, should I do mid-cycle as well?

And you're right about how stressful and overwhelming this all is. I actually went though a 2 year cancer battle with Onyx's love, so I never expected to go through something so stressful with a pet again...especially so soon. But, my cats are my only children, so I don't mind showering them with all my love.

On a funny note, my healthy rescued cat, Klepto (3 yr old male, BS 51), LOVED having his BG tested last night. He's been so jealous of the extra attention Onyx gets, I think he was just excited to have similar treatment. It took 5 sticks, and he purred the whole time. Cracked me up. And of course, he also loves the new wet food, so at least I'm lucky with one cat...lol.

 

AMPS = AM (morning) pre-shot
PMPS = PM (evening) pre-shot
mid-cycle = between 2 shots. most folks do this during a day they have off; others set an alarm and get up in the middle of the night

If transitioning to wet diet isn't working well, you might go with low carb dry foods as an interim step. It is important for your cat to eat!
- Wellness Core Original formula is available at many pet supply stores and is around 11% calories from carbohydrate.
- Evo Cat & Kitten is around 8% calories from carbohydrate. Make sure the batch number is not from the recall back in June.
- Young Again 0 Carb is about 5% calories from carbohydrate. Online ordering only.

 

Thanks, BJM. Someone mentioned those brands the other day, but in the midst of digesting everything, I forgot about them. Onyx has a moderate appetite again, but it's only for the Blue Buffalo. I will pick up one of the others for now, so she's at least getting a better diet.

Thank you.

 

Since we all live in different time zones, we express the hours in + times from the insulin shot. So, your AM test, feed, shoot is 11 AM. +2 = 1 PM, +4 = 3 PM, +6 = 5 PM, etc.

Wendy had asked me:

Since you have just started giving your cat insulin, there is not a lot of data to base dose decisions on. I was saying that I would like to see a little bit more test data before suggesting a different dose then the 1U you are giving currently.

No, the AM midcycle test is the one in the middle of your morning cycle. Your morning cycle is the one that starts at 11 AM and goes until 11 PM. I meant the test at 5 PM. That is your morning mid-cycle test. (or somewhere between 4 PM and 6 PM).

Yes, I was waiting for that midcycle test at +6 and also for the test at 11PM, the PMPS (evening or PM pre-shot test) before making any decision on a dose change.

When you can. Don't know when you head off to sleep. We suggest a "before bed" test if that is at least a couple of hours after your PM dose of insulin. Your +5 to +7 would be 4 AM to 6AM. I have no idea how that test would fit into your life and responsibilities. We don't want to leave you sleep deprived on top of all the stress you are going through.

Nadir is not always at that +6 timeframe. You have to do some testing around that +5 to +7 window. This can be on different days, does not need to be all on the same day. For example, maybe a +4 and a +5 one day, then a +5 and a +6 another day (or night).

Don't be, because you need to take care of yourself too. We'll figure out some ways to get more test data. Don't expect this to happen all in a few days or even a few weeks. This is a marathon, not a sprint. It took Onyx time to become diabetic, it will take time to get her regulated.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe Klepto can show Onyx the way to eat that wet food! Took me 3 very difficult weeks to transition Wink from the dry to the wet and that was fast!

I test my civies (our word for non-diabetic cats) occasionally too. They tolerate it is the best I can say.

 

Wow, there is so much to learn...lol. Thanks for being so incredibly patient and breaking it down for me. Certain things make a lot more sense now.

I'm still working on the google doc, but here is the data for the last 3 dyas since I've been testing.

7/20/2013 1st At Home Test - 437 (wasn't eating all day / no shots given Refused to try wet food
7/21/2013 1U / Keytone Neg. +6 167 PMPS 128 (no shot) Refused to try wet food
7/22/2013 AMPS 429 / 1U +6 301

I'll touch base later when I get her PMPS numbers.

:smile:

 

Since you've had to skip a dose already, you might try giving only 0.5 units. That way, you may not have to skip a shot while you're still getting the hang of everything.

 

I can try that. Unfortunately, the prescribed syringes are only in whole units, so I'm not sure how exact I can get it. Tomorrow when I go to the vet I'll get a script for ones that have the .25 lines.

Thanks BJM.

 

None of the syringes mark 0.25 units - you have to eyeball it.

For the half unit markings, see if you can follow these instructions for making a reference gauge. That might let you finish up the syringes you have.

 

Hi Folks.

I just did Onyx's PMPS and it's now 144...down from the midday +6 of 301. Not sure what to do??

Brandi

 

Skip and get a test at +2 and tomorrow start again at 0.5units instead, 1 is too much.

We need to find a dose you can give safety twice a day and as a newbie you aren't ready to shoot under 200 yet.. Until you have more data, hence the request for a +2.
Wendy

 

That sounds good, Wendy. I can't even imagine what would have happened over the weekend if I hadn't found you guys and taken her vet prescribed 2U dose consisistently.

Onxy and I thank you all sooooooooooooo very much!

 

When you go to the vet tomorrow, you want to ask for that insulin syringe prescription to be for U-100, 3/10 cc, 5/16" or 1/2" needle length, 29-31 gauge, 1/2 unit markings on the syringe barrel.

The Relion brand ones from Wal-Mart meet these criteria.

There are no syringes with 1/4unit markings.

 

Hi Deb.

U-100, 3/10cc, 30 gauge x 1/2" with whole units are what he gave me. He mentioned there were syringes with smaller units on the right, but he didn't know where I could get them for sure. I'll call around to the pharmacys tomorrow to see who has the 1/2 inch units, then have him call them in.

Thank you.

 

Hi Gang.

So I was able to get the +2 test last night (219) after her skipped PM shot, which had a PMPS of 144.

This morning she was back up to 426, so I did as directed and gave her .05 units instead of 1, with the hope that she will be in a safe place at her PMPS test to do another .05 units. Fingers, toes, legs and eyes are crossed!

Keytones are also still negative.

:smile:

 

And paws, don't forget to cross those kitty paws. We have 3 sets here crossed for you. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wal-Mart Relion syringes have 1/2 U markings.
Some Terumo's have 1/2 U markings.
Some BD have 1/2 U markings.

Those are all I know of.

 

Awesome! I'll probably get the Relion ones then. Since my vet is on vacation, I decided to skip the BG test at the office today with the tech. Since I'm already doing many myself, why stress her out unneccesarily. I actually sent them a copy of the spreadsheet with her numbers so they can see what's going on with her.

With this new .05U plan, I'm going to try today to get a test every 3 hours. I just did one and it's now down to 291. I figured this would help give you guys more data.

Strange question: She has a bunch of large bald spots on her back and tail from pulling her hair out. Would it hurt to try a stick in either place, to give her ears a break today? I know they say you can do it on the large paw pad, but I don't know if that could get infected from the litter box or not.
Just a thought...

Thanks, Deb.

 

The reason we use the ears is because it is 'easy' to encourage growth of new capillaries (hence the phrase 'the ears "learn" to bleed") plus the larger veins are easy to see, which makes it easier to avoid poking right into them ... The skin on the back is not likely to bleed well enough for you to test by without causing injury imo.

 

I wouldn't use the bald spots, as there is something going on - allergy/inflammatory - and you don't want to aggravate it.

If you use the paw pads, you might use an antiseptic wipe on the paw first, test, blot, and then rinse/wipe with plain water.

I think you may mean 0.5 units rather than .05.

 

Yeah, I figured you'd say something like that. She's been scratching at her ears a lot today, so I thought it must be starting to bother them. Not sure how well she'd let me check the paw. She doesn't normally even like them to be touched, so I might save that one for a last resort type thing. But I will do what you recommened if/when I do try them. I'll "stick" to the ears for now (pun intended)...lol. :lol:

 

If its just because the skin has been polked, you might try alternating ears. And a dab of Neosporing ointment (not cream) with pain relief, or generic, applied to the ear, let set for a couple minutes, then wiped off, will reduce the annoyance of testing and help the blood to bead up.

Other things may cause itchy ears - be on the alert for fleas (they may ride indoors on people), ear mites if ever outside, wax buildup, yeast infections, bacterial infections, etc.

A gauze pad may be used to gently wipe out the ear. If it smells sour, there's a possibility of a yeast infection. If it is brownish-red and crumbly, it could be wax buildup of mites.

If the ear needs cleaning, a pet ear cleanser may be used to saturate a cotton ball, the cotton ball placed in the ear canal, the ear massaged around the cotton ball, the cotton ball removed, and a dry cotton ball massaged in the ear canal to dry any residue, then removed.

 

Actually, I'm already using both ears, I use ointment w/ pain med each time, she just had frontline a few days ago (for the first time because the vet is convinced she has a flea allergy and that's why she's pulling her hair out, even though she's indoor), her ears are clean and definitely doesn't have mites. She's literally just scratching the tips of her ears, not the inside where dirt or mites would irritate. My other cat always has ear issues, so that's something I tend to pay attention to with both.

Even though the I use very little ointment, and I rub it in a bit, I haven't been wiping it off after a few mintues. I guess it's possible the "feel" of it there annoyed her? Hmmmmm. Perhaps. I'll start wiping it off and see if that helps.

And I think cutting the dose back again to .5 was just the trick. She's much perkier today. YAY!

Thank goodness I had the summer off, otherwise I have clue how I would be able to do all this...and research...and function.

Thanks, BJM.

 

Maybe not wiping the Neosporin off is what is making it itch?

 

You've just discovered one of the cost saving benefits of home testing. I don't know how much your vet charges for a curve done at the vet, but mine charges $100 each, $20 per ear poke. You've also got much more realistic numbers with testing in a familiar environment instead of those vet stress induced high numbers. Plus, you saved some gas!

Wink started to lose the hair above his eyes after I was using the antibiotic ointment w/pain relief. I made sure to wipe it off very, very well after that. That way he could groom his ears and not get any of it spread to any other part of his body.

OOH! You got a picture up in your avatar! I just noticed. Which one is Klepto again? ohmygod_smile The orange and white one right?

 

I was FINALLY able to get the avatar to work. I kept trying to use a pic I had already shrunk to 11KB, and when it shrunk it on the website, it kept coming up all black. Turns out I needed to use the original HUGE file from my phone. Who knew!?

haha...yes, my little thievin' rescue cat Klepto is the orange and white one. He tests Onyx's patience on a daily basis...lol. Onyx is quite a bit older too, which only makes it worse. He always wants to play, but for quite some time, she just hasn't had the desire. At least now I know why. He does keep licking her "pierced" ears though, so that's sweet of him, and the only time she's not hissing at him for being too close...lol.

Yeah, the vets office didn't seem too thrilled that I was finding help elsewhere. But if I wouldn't have found you guys, god only knows what would have happened to my little sweetie after their way too high dosing for a week. O well, they'll get over it. I'll still take her in periodically, but I'll definitely try saving money where I can--AND keeping her from being stressed out uneccessarily. She's already getting used to the routine, without stress. When she sees me grab the pink and white make-up bag, she sits down beside me and starts sucking her paw (yes, like a baby sucks it's thumb!) to get ready for it. I think what annoys her the most is the small LED flash light I dangle from my mouth. She always looks into it at first, and it's really bright. I'm considering getting that Illumavein thing, which would stop that. We shall see.

And I will definitely start wiping the ointment off after a few minutes.

 

She's already coming to sit beside you when she sees that bag! That's fantastic. I think our diabetic kitties know when it's time to test and that we are trying our best to make them feel better.

My ageing eyes need really bright light to see through all Wink's long black fur. I took one of those clip on lamps and clamped it to the towel bar in my bathroom. Every time I turned it on, Wink would come over to his spot for his test. ;-)

 

Yeah, I have trouble seeing through Onyx's long black hair too. I don't want to shave them if I don't have to.

Yes, she's being great. I just did another 3 hour reading (which is going back up, by the way) while she was napping, and she literally didn't even move...from beginning to end. That one shocked me a bit...lol. Thank goodnesss she's such a passive, gentle cat. I can't even imagine the trouble people have. My mom has a cat that's a biter. That would NOT be good.

Maybe I'll try a clip light like you did. Oh wait...I have a book light I might be able to jimmy-rig up something. Thanks for the idea! Woo hoo!!! lol

 

Clip the book light on your collar?

 

Morning everyone.

Okay, so I did 6 BG tests yesterday to help get more data. She mostly stayed in the 200's all day, but this morning she's back up to 400. And I think I did my first fur shot, because I could smell the insulin on my hand afterwards. It felt like it was in though. Should I test in a few hours to see if it's coming down to know if she got some?

 

Did you shoot last night? The dose column is empty.

Sucks on the fur shot. Happens to all of us. remember to not shoot again as you dont know how much got in there. A + 3 would be good anyway although you might not see the impact of the fur shot for a few days because of the depot effect of Lantus.

Did Deb talk to you about the Lantus Forum?

Wendy

 

We've all done fur shots. And shot ourselves, poked ourselves, etc.

Some of the insulin may have gone in, so if you test, you may see that.

 

Well, I wasn't able to test at +3 because I had a doctors appointment, so I just did a +5 that was 438. So I'd say I missed it all. :YMSIGH:

Thanks for catching that on her SS...I filled in the dose, and yes, I gave her one lastnight. I feel so bad I did a fur shot. She was feeling so good, and now she's back to being wierd and standoffish. Grrrrrrrr.

 

I can personally attest to the fact that the Neosporin with pain relief really does take the sting away from a poke! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wendy, no I have not mentioned the ISG forums yet.

Here’s how to post in ISG forums:

• Every day ( or as often as you can) you open a new thread/post. We call them "condos" (short for condition report, or the home you live in and the cat trees some people have)
• The subject has the date/cats name and BG readings ie 06/23 CATname AMPS 400 +2 333 + 5 224. You add a ? icon if you have a question. You should update your subject line in the very first post for the day as you get a reading, or whenever you have a question.
  
• The contents of your post have a quick update on how your cat is feeling as regards the 5Ps ( peeing. pooing, preening, playing and purring) and any questions and a link to your previous post ie : Today CATname was in a good mood, playing and eating well. But he is peeing a lot and his BG is really high. Should I increase the dose?
  
• For your first post put "newbie" also in your subject so everyone can welcome you!
  
  There is no rush to post in one of the insulin specific support groups. I like to suggest that people go over to their insulin specific support group and check it out. Read the Stickies at the top of the Topics section. Read a few condos posted by other members. Get a feel for how the forum works. See if you think it would be a good fit for you.
  
  Lantus actually has 2 forums, the ISG Lantus TR and the ISG "Relaxed Lantus". More active in TR so if you need an immediate answer that is the place to post. Probably 50-65 people post there on a regular basis. I counted one time and there were 83 condos with that days date.
  
  Relaxed Lantus is a bit more laid back. More people following SLGS protocol there. Much less active, maybe 6-8 people posting on a regular basis. Hold the dose longer. If you need an immediate answer to your post, and aren't getting one, do a new post with a link to it in both the Health and TR forums.
  
  Whichever protocol you decide to use with your Lantus dosing, be assured there are people familiar with the 2 different protocols in both these forums.
  
  As we have said before, you are always welcome to post here in the Feline Health forum for as long as you want.

 

Thanks, Deb. I'll definitely check out the other forums. Since you guys have been the ones helping me this week, I definitely want to stick with you until we figure out the best plan/protocol for Onyx. I was feeling so good yesterday with her numbers "gradually" coming down, but then to give a fur shot this morning, it totallay screwed up her numbers for the day.

Oh, and I did get the Relion syringes with the 1/2 unit markings today. They didn't have 1/2" needles though, only 5/16.

On another note, the Wellness Core came today and she loves it. Soooooo, I can atleast get her eating that until I get her on the wet food. So hopefully that will help her numbers a bit. Oddly enough, i was just browsing through other posts and came across somehting I must have missed, if someone said it to me in the last few days: "don't feed your cat for a few hours before your AMPS and PMSP, becuase it will mess with the numbers". Since Onyx is a grazer, I know for a fact the last few morning she was munching away all morning. So I'm hoping that might have actually gotten her numbers in the 400s. I"m no sure how bad the Blue Buffalo is, but it had to of affected it. So I will experiment in the morning and not allow her to eat until right before her shot. In a few days I'll have her strictly on the Wellness (temporarily of course).

I talked to one of my vets today and he was very happy that I found you guys and that I've been getting such good guidance. He was pleased that her numbers were mostly holding in the 200's for a few days. He totally agreed with the choice to lower her dose to .5U. He said he'd like me to hold it for a few more days and see what her numbers look like. He said that 2U is pretty normal to start them out, but for some cats, it's just too much. But he said when we increase her, it will only be by .25 or .5.

In closing, my question is this: since Onyx didn't actually have a shot this morning, should I still give her .5 tonight, or should I give her a bit more?

 

Stick with the 0.5 units.

 

Give her the same dose 0.5 , we don't know for sure how much got in. The depot will build up again naturally.

I prefer the 5/16 needles, my cats don't seem to notice the shorter needle and its easier somehow to not have to tent as much.

Wendy

 

It's 2 hours before the pre-shots that you want to take away all food, if you can.

The reason for no food is so we can see a number that has not been spiked higher by food. We want to know that is a fasting number, for at least 2 hours.

Any other tests during the cycle, some food is ok.

 

Okay, sounds good. .5U it is!

And Wendy, I'm hoping Onyx doesn't mind the 5/16 as much either. Half the time she feels the 1/2 a bit, and I try to be so careful.

Deb, I will definitely take away her food 2 hours before her preshots moving forward. Makes perfect sense.

Thanks, gang.

:smile:

 

Wendy - the 5/16 syringe worked soooooooo much better for me, and Onyx seemed so relieved afterwards because it didn't pinch. I'm so glad that's all Walmart had.

So I put up her food for a few hours before her AMPS this morning. Though, sadly, it didn't affect her numbers any, because she was still up to her normal 438. That morning test always seems to be so high. She hid under the bed all night (it went down in the 40's lastnight, and she always goes there when she's cold), so I wasn't able to get an overnight test. I'll try to get a few more tests today, but it definintely seems like the 1U did a lot more for her. When I told showed the vet her SS, he said that maybe since the 1U got her in the low 100's by her PMPS, perhaps she does 1U in the morning, then .5 at night. What do you guys think of that idea? I'm sure we'll want to see another day or two of .5 numbers first, especially since the fur shot yesterday messed everything up.

 

We eyeball 0.25 increments between the half unit marks, so see if you can eyeball 0.75 units, maybe practice with a used syringe.
That way, you'd be able to do the same dose morning and night.

 

Hi Brandi!

Lantus insulin is best dosed giving the same shot in the morning and in the evening.

The protocol we use holds the dose for a minimum of 6 cycles. Because of that fur shot yesterday am 7/24, the cycle count starts over. So as of this PM, 7/25 Onyx will only have been on this 0.5U dose for 3 cycles.

Because of the fur shot/ missed insulin dose, Onyx will go higher or bounce. A bounce can take up to 72 hours to clear. So, I'm asking if you think you can be patient and stay with that 0.5U dose to see if the numbers go a bit lower as Onyx recovers from the missed shot and the insulin depot catches up again. Or do you feel you need to increase Onyx now?

It's very likely that she needs more insulin. I would recommend, as BJM has done, that you give a consistent 0.75U both in the AM and the PM
cycles.

You know your cat better than we do. The ultimate decision is between you and your vet.

p.s. Now that you have a SS (spreadsheet) up and running, would you please update your signature and take out the number of units of insulin you are giving. This is going to be a very fluid and changeable number from here on out and being able to look at the SS will give us the correct dosage as you continue to change the dose over the coming weeks.

Thanks, Deb

 

Hi Deb.

I didn't realize she would bounce all over the place from that fur shot. I just tested her again at +9 and it's now up to 497. Others have suggested keeping it at .5 until after tomorrows PM does, because of the fur shot. But you and BJM haven't steered me wrong up to now, and have been with me all week, so I'm willing to up it to .75 if that's what you guys would do. I'm really worried about keytones with that Nova test saying .6.

 

Guys she has two threads going FYI, and in the other one I suggested she moved to TR..

Wendy

 

Sorry, Wendy. I did move to the TR forum, but I didn't want to ignore Deb's message.