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  1. Louellen

    Louellen Member

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    Apr 3, 2015
    I totally agree! I've seen Morrigan's trips to the water bowl lessen down to a more normal level most days now and her peeing constantly and huge clumps, down to 2 to 3 times per day and half the size of her previous many per day. I AM caught up in those numbers though. I am waiting for my vet to call me back (hopefully tomorrow), having sent him Morrigan's SS to look over as she's not due for another fructosamine level until July 7th but, I cannot get her out of the yellows yet! Last night, I had this LOVELY surprise of having gotten an 11.7 (211) at the +12 hr. mark and wanted to throw a party! This morning after that lovely number last night, at yet again, that nasty 16.4 (295). I know that it's likely largely due to kibble (DM and m/d) at night as she will leave the canned food and keep us up all night if we just leave that down but, at best, we pick up the kibble during the day (unless we're going to be out all day) and feed her solely canned foods during the day (she doesn't eat enough calories by just canned food though). And...I truly think that at worst, if we can't get her off of the kibble totally, she needs an upped dose now???

    Any thoughts would be welcomed as I'm seeing this miracle here and thinking about Morrigan's situation too. But, back to Kate and Kloever and not just looking at the numbers but the overall picture! :)
     
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  2. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Truly....like I said...she was laying on the floor just purring...no one was petting her either! :)
     
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  3. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    144 at +4.5 :)
     
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  4. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 9, 2015
    Summary:
    AMPS - 208, 1 unit of NPH
    +2.5 - 138
    +4.5 - 144

    She is surfing! And you and she are doing great!
     
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  5. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    You're doing a great job with Morrigan, Louellen. I know you've had problems with her both with testing and with persuading her to eat the wet food. Remember, those higher numbers at her AMPS are also going to be influenced by Dawn Phenomenon - seeing numbers a little higher first thing in the morning is normal! And yes, I agree, we all get caught up with the numbers - because Morrigan won't allow that for you, you're more aware of the other signs she's showing you that she's feeling better, which is great. :) That 211 is a good preshot number - it's below the renal threshold and is definitely something to celebrate. :) I really don't feel I've got enough experience to comment on her dosing since, with Morrigan, it's almost impossible for you to get tests at mid-cycle so I can't work out how much lower she might be at that point than she is at her preshots. She might do well with a slight increase, but the concern I would have in Morrigan's case is that if she did drop low, she wouldn't allow you to test every 30 minutes while you were getting her numbers back up which in itself would make me hesitant of trying to regulate her too tightly.

    That's great - she's staying in some nice numbers for you so far. :) I don't doubt she's feeling good today - she's looking beautiful in blue! :cool:
     
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  6. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Not bad, so far! What will be most telling is what happens when the N wears off - when and how fast.
     
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  7. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Thank you all for following her progress and paying attention to us!!! You're ALL gems!!! I'm excited for her!! Only 1 unit!!!! I'm sure I'll have to increase...but nowhere near where I was!!! :)
     
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  8. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    I also suspect she will need a touch more. The real question is does it last long enough that you can shoot every 12 hours, or if it wears off soon enough that a switch to the Lantus (since you have it) would be better than trying to schedule 3 shots a day at 8 hour intervals.
     
  9. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Right...that's why I'm hoping to present my Vet with these numbers tomorrow and he'll let me switch. I think he will...especially if I present him with my knowledge..or in reality...all of the knowledge from you all...of the Novolin and that it actually wore off. The support in this group has been AMAZING!!! I'm also sure my Vet will be very interested in knowing that such a low dose kept her within range. My hopi is that it'll be a chain reaction. My experience may change/save the lives of many cats! :)
     
  10. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    How did she handle so much insulin????
     
  11. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

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    May 9, 2015
    My understanding, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, is a cat will respond to higher insulin with higher numbers to combat the lows.
     
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  12. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    They do tend to do that, yes. If the dose is too high and drops them low, then the liver "panics" and produces glycogen...often too much, which sends them higher than they started out. If you miss the low and only ever see the higher numbers, then it looks as though the cat isn't getting enough insulin rather than getting too much...and every time the dose is raised, it makes the situation worse. It's fortunate for cats who are overdosed this way that they do have that defense mechanism built in to bring them back up, but of course it can't be completely relied on which is why we try to avoid having them go too low in the first place.
     
  13. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    At some point, the glycogen in the liver is exhausted and the compensation fails. If Kloever could not eat enough to compensate for the insulin demand, she would have crashed and possibly died if not gotten treatment quickly.
     
  14. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    Thanks @BJM - I knew there was a reason that the glycogen response couldn't be relied on long-term but I couldn't remember exactly why!
     
  15. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    200...+6.5
    So...it's going up pretty quick!! 5 or so hours until shot time...hope she doesn't get really high???
    I'm so glad I came here!!!
     
  16. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Summary:
    AMPS - 208, 1 unit of NPH
    +2.5 - 138
    +4.5 - 144
    +6.5 - 200 as expected, the nadir for the N is around +4. It may start climbing higher than she started, but that is OK, as we're trying to establish an optimal dose on the N for now.
     
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  17. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Ok...and then start all over when/if I switch to Lantus!! Haha!
     
  18. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Lantus works very differently from N. It has a gentle onset and gentle wear off. It forms small crystals under the skin when injected, then gradually dissolves to work. There is a little residue left at the time of the next shot, which we call the depot or shed.
     
  19. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    But won't I have to do the curve all over again to see how she's doing? Just to make sure?
     
  20. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Yes. However, due to the depot build up, you have to keep the same dose for 5-7 days for the first level before curving, and then 3-5 days for every dose change after that.
    The curve with the N is to determine how it is working in Kloever as well as getting her on a safer dose until you switch to a better insulin for cats, or she no longer needs it (that is a possibility - time and patience will determine that.)
     
  21. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    What if vet says I can switch tomorrow? They won't be open before I usually give first shot...should I wait until I talk to them?
     
  22. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    She does need some insulin, so giving N in the morning and starting Lantus in the evening would be OK. Lantus needs a pretty consistent 12 hour shooting schedule, so you could pick a time to start that you could do most of the time, such as 7 am and 7 pm, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
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  23. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    That's what I've been doing with the N...830am-830pm. :)
     
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  24. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    That'll be fine.

    She dropped at least 64 mg/dL on 1 unit and you want her to be safe overnight, so this evening, if she is about 200 mg/dL again, you could give 1.25 to 1.5 units, eyeballing the quarter unit as best you can.
     
  25. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    I should probably clarify. I'm a Stay at home Mom to 3 year old Twins and an 18 month old. So....I'm here! :)
     
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  26. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    OMG - up to your knees in munchkins! (mine all have 4 paws)
     
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  27. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Wouldn't trade it for the WORLD! :) I had just cats before I met my Hubby too!! :)
     
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  28. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    198...+8.5
    :)
     
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  29. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Summary:
    AMPS - 208, 1 unit of NPH
    +2.5 - 138
    +4.5 - 144
    +6.5 - 200
    +8.5 - 198, so about the same (any 2 numbers within 20% of each other may be considered the same). That's good - she isn't skyrocketing up.
     
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  30. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Cool!!! So she did it twice!! :) I'm glad it's not skyrocketing too!!! PHEW!!
     
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  31. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    I find that very encouraging. It suggests that the lower dose works and is safe for her and does not leave her in exceptionally high numbers when it wears off.
    You mentioned you're at home all day. One option to consider would be giving the insulin every 8 hours (TID in vet speak). This could keep her under 200 mg/dL much of the day, allowing her pancreas to heal more and preventing glucose toxicity where the glucose is high enough to cause organ damage. If that would be too much hassle, then switching to Lantus would allow every 12 hour dosing while keeping the numbers low enough.
    These are options, not mandates. Whichever works best for you is fine.
     
  32. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    TID?
    Hoping to switch tomorrow after I call. If he says no...which I doubt...I probably could. Would prefer twice a day though. :)
     
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  33. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Based on today's data, you'd need to switch to Lantus to test and shoot every 12 hours. We generally prefer to get folks off N because of its short duration.
     
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  34. Louellen

    Louellen Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015

    BJM, I'm learning as I watch and follow this thread too, hoping that I'll be able to help others as you do to some extent or another in time. :)
    Members have said to me that I need to find Morrigan's Nadir still. I'm seeing you say here that Kloever's Nadir for N is around the +4 mark.
    When I've done Morrigan's curve (according to my vet's instructions...and boy...what a day that is when I have to do those...I almost need to take up Valium or drinking! ;) )....I get these types of numbers (not meaning to hijack Kloever's thread by any means! Just trying to learn along with Kate)...I find that Morrigan has a rather "flat curve" while on Lantus and get numbers like this....

    AMPS 252
    + 4 227
    +6 245
    +8 225
    +12 246

    So, in that example...does that mean that the nadir for Lantus in Morrigan is at the +8 ?
    And, what ranges are we aiming to get to (besides the ultimate of being OTJ)? I was reading awhile ago on this site that the 100 to 300 range is to be aimed for but, I'm not sure, seeing that Kloever's levels are already there??? Sorry, I don't mean to make extra work but, I am so totally confused and would be useless in Kate and Kloever's situation.
     
  35. Louellen

    Louellen Member

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    Apr 3, 2015

    Oh good heaven's Kate....how are you still standing?! LOL ;)
     
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  36. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    I'm not sure Morrigan really had much of a nadir; she was pretty flat and above 200 mg/dL. If she has been at the same dose for a minimum of 3 full days on Lantus, following Tight Regulation, you would increase her 0.25 units. If you are following the Start Low, Go Slow protocol, she would need to be on that dose for a full week and a curve run, then if still above 90 mg/dL on a human glucometer, the dose could be increased 0.25 units.

    Tight Reg aims for numbers between about 50 -150 mg/dL at the lowest on a human glucometer.
    Start Low, Go Slow is more conservative and the glucose should go no lower than 90 mg/dL on a human glucometer.
     
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  37. Louellen

    Louellen Member

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    Apr 3, 2015
    Thanks BJM...that's what I thought...pretty flat curve. I see an increase needed then for Morrigan. I'm waiting for our vet to look at these numbers and get back to me (hopefully, tomorrow) as she is never below 200 mg/dl on the one unit. And, I find that the times I've been able to get +1 and +2 numbers, they've been higher than the AMPS numbers so....??? Not sure what is going on or why? Maybe, food related but, she generally doesn't eat for about 4 to 5 hours after shot as she's sleeping. Hmmm....more to learn!
     
  38. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Human diabetics are given guidelines on how to adjust their insulin doses to optimize their diabetes management. We use protocols to serve the same purpose in managing our feline's diabetes. In the case of the Tight Regulation protocol, it is actually based on research by Roomp and Rand. Rand is at the University of Queensland Centre for Companion Animal Studies.
     
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  39. Louellen

    Louellen Member

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    Apr 3, 2015
    Thanks BJ. :)
     
  40. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    213...+10.5
    I'm AMAZED!!!
    So how much insulin tonight? :)
     
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  41. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Some days are harder than others...but the Good outweighs the bad every single day!! :)
     
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  42. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Summary:
    AMPS - 208, 1 unit of NPH
    +2.5 - 138
    +4.5 - 144
    +6.5 - 200
    +8.5 - 198
    10.5 - 213
    I think I'd go with 1.25 units of the N.
    A note - Many cats go lower overnight.
     
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  43. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Sounds good!!! I could just do 1? Let me know at your leisure. You've been fabulous today! :)
     
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  44. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    If you feel more comfortable with 1 unit, that is OK. During the day, she probably could go up to 1.5 units of N safely.
     
  45. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    That's what I'll do. 1 tonight and 1.5 in the morning. Thanks so much BJ!!! And EVERYONE! :)
     
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  46. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    You're welcome. All the members here started as a newbies and learned, then started passing on what they could. You'll do that at some point, too.
     
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  47. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    One more thing @BJM what if the Vet says that human glucose meters aren't reliable for cats? Just in case?
     
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  48. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Home glucometers are intended to provide general feedback, not lab equivalent values, and are sufficient for home monitoring per the FDA. Used with feline-specific reference numbers, they are adequate for that task. Noted international feline diabetes researcher Dr Rand of the University of Queensland provides feline specific reference numbers, which I have incorporated in my signature link Glucometer Notes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2015
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  49. Louellen

    Louellen Member

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    Apr 3, 2015
    BJM, Manxcat and so many others did so much! I am learning as I go along too and your story with Kloever has helped me too! I hope to be able to have the knowledge to help others too as I go along. I'm trying to learn as well, not only to help my own kitty but, also to be able to help with other's as well. I owe a lot to the great members here and just seeing BJM having this "pick up" and do what she's done, has me in near tears of joy. What a difference! So happy to see this come out like this. :)
    HUGS to everyone...and, now for some sleep. :)
     
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  50. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    287 this am
    1.5 going in. Calling Vet about Lantus today.
    :)
     
  51. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Good luck with the vet!
     
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  52. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Thanks!! :) Will keep you posted!!
     
  53. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Ok. Vet says she's going to look into Lantus and get back to me. She was surprised and intrigued that such a low dose worked so well. She also said the prescribe Novolin because it's cheaper for their clients. She said it's easier to get people to treat their cats/animals if the price point is better. I'm really hoping she does more research into lower dosages so our babies will be able to live longer!! ;) I'm sure she'll call me back and give me the go ahead. I was pretty firm that I wanted to switch...mostly because the Lantus lasts longer in her system. I expressed my concern with that. She applauded me for my at home testing and my glucose curve!! :) Thanks again everyone! :D
     
  54. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    Your vet sounds great. :) Any vet who is prepared to work with you like that and research where necessary to help you is well worth keeping! :D I actually can see why she prescribes Novolin so she doesn't meet resistance from clients over the price - a lot of people don't know there's a difference between the different insulin types and the price of Lantus can certainly come as a shock!! It sounds as though the information you've given her may well help other kitties she treats as well - now she knows that a lower dose can work better, she might be more prepared to try lower doses with her other patients. :)
     
  55. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Her Co-Vet is awesome too!!! I was excited that she received my info so well. I was pretty firm...didn't give her much of a chance though!! :) Idk if I'll start the Lantus tonight...probably tomorrow. I wanna watch her all day tomorrow on it! :) I also told her that the fact that I have multiple cats probably saved her life cuz I had food out constantly... Can't wait to get Kloever feeling more like herself!!! :D
     
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  56. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Got the go ahead!!! Lantus tomorrow! :) She was awesome!!!! I thanked her for being so open!! :)
     
  57. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    OK! That is terrific.
    Back up a page to where the formula for a starting dose of Lantus was calculated based on her weight and where the 2 protocols are described and let us know what protocol you'd like to follow and what you calculate should be her starting dose (math quiz!)
     
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  58. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    2.23 units...so rounding down would be 2 units. Vet suggested starting with 2.
    :) Sound good??
     
  59. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    She's a little under 20lb - is that right? Sorry, you might already have mentioned her weight earlier on but I couldn't see it scanning back quickly. If so then, yes, your calculation is perfect. :)
     
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  60. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Yep...about 19# 11oz. :)
     
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  61. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    You got the exact same thins I got when I checked it yesterday.
    There are 2 protocols we have for using Lantus:

    Tight Regulation
    Start Low, Go Slow
    You'll want to read those over and decide which makes the most sense for you and Lkoever.
    Also, there are are a bunch of sticky posts you'll want to review at the top of the Lantus forum explaining how to use and store Lantus, and more.
     
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  62. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    PSPM 280
    What protocol do you suggest?
     
  63. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Tight Regulation has some research demonstrating its ability to get cats off insulin when diagnosed early and following the intensive protocol (at least 4 tests a day - pre-shots, mid-cycle, and a before bed so you can be sure he's safe)
    If you've got a lot of chaos in the house - kids - you might find Start Low, Go Slow easier to follow, but slower to get an optimal dose adjustment.
     
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  64. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    AMPS 251
    2 units Lantus going in in 15 minutes.
    That's what we agreed to right? 2 units 2X per day? Thanks!! :)
     
  65. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Yes on the 2 units. It does work differently than NPH - not as sudden a drop, nor wear off. Think gentle waves of effect over every 12 hours.
     
  66. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Hasn't done much actually
    AMPS 251
    +2 236
    +4 237
    +6 233

    Getting ready to test again in 15 mins
     
  67. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    It takes 5-7 days to build up to a steady depot initially, then any dose change takes 3-5 days to stabilize.
    Lantus requires you to be patient, so here are some patience pants!

    Patience pants rainbow jeans.png
     
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  68. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Haha!!!
    +8 223
    :)
    Thanks for the pants!! ;-)
     
  69. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    +10 165!!!!!! :)
     
  70. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Nice!

    The pants are courtesy of @Deb & Wink I downloaded them to use because we need a little bit of humor every once in a while!
     
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  71. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    Oops - for some reason I haven't been getting notifications on this post today even though it's definitely on my watched list! I'm happy to see Kloever doing well on her first day on Lantus. :) That's a late nadir, but that happens sometimes with the longer-lasting insulins. Hopefully over the next few days those cycles will start to flatten out even more as her depot builds. :)
     
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  72. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    She just seems so much better....still drinking a lot of water though...
     
  73. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Jan 14, 2015
    Everything takes time - her water consumption will decrease the close she gets to being regulated. How she's feeling in herself is very important - if she seems happier and better, then she's definitely on the way to being better. :)
     
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  74. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for other assessments which help you evaluate your cat. It isn't always about the glucose test.
     
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  75. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Ok...you guys are gonna laugh at me. Getting Kloever's dose ready and noticed that I've been giving her 1 unit!!!!! I had been giving 5+ units from the beginning. So the "starting" line I thought was 1....that's pretty interesting to me. The Novolin was barely .5????? This time...I counted back from 5 and got to 2...TOTAL DORK!!!! I bet she does WAY better today!! I can't curve her though....need more strips!! She was 227 this morning on 1 unit!!! Not too shabby! :)
     
  76. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    These things happen Kate - and better too little insulin than too much! Now you know, you can get her on the right starting dose and I'm sure she'll start showing you some green numbers in no time. :) Not that there's anything at all wrong with that 227 this morning - that's a good pre-shot number especially as her depot is still filling. :)

    As long as you have enough strips to get a reading or two from her mid-cycle, you shouldn't need to do a full curve today - maybe give that a few days until her depot is full and you can see what the insulin is actually doing. I would recommend buying more strips sooner rather than later though - if you do get a low reading at some point, it's very easy to go through a lot of strips in just a few hours.
     
  77. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Buying some today!! :) I'm pumped she's doing so well! She seems so much calmer. Her urine output has decreased too...not perfect...but definitely an improvement! I might just give her 1.5 units tonight though...since 1 unit overnight had her at 227 this morning. Don't want her too low overnight whIle I'm sleeping. :)
     
  78. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    That's great - I know I always worried if I got low on strips in case Rosa decided to dive! ;) It's great that Kloever's doing well - all those secondary signs are really good news. :) When you can see an improvement day by day, it really does show very clearly how much better they're feeling! You might well be right on the PM dose - you definitely don't want her dropping too far while you're asleep - but let's see where she gets to by her pre-shot tonight. There's always an option to reduce or skip if you're faced with a fairly low pre-shot and you can't monitor the whole cycle, but you might also find that her numbers stay fairly flat throughout a lot of the day...there's no guarantee of that as we don't really know what the 2 units of Lantus can do for her yet, but it is a possibility with some cats as Lantus is better at keeping lower numbers down and level than it is at reducing high numbers quickly. :)
     
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  79. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Thank you thank you!!! :)
     
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  80. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    +5 138
    She's lookin' good!! :) Test again before tonight. :)
     
  81. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    If you can get a test around +7 or close to that, that would be good - that way you'll be able to see if that 138 is close to her nadir or if she's still dropping by +7. Once you find out when she usually nadirs, it will get easier to get mid-cycle tests because you'll know when is the best time to take them. :) And I agree, that 138 is great - the Lantus is definitely working as she's come down nicely from this morning. :)
     
  82. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Going to my MIL'S for her bday...that's why I tested...I won't be here... :-( Tomorrow I definitely will. Gave her some food.
     
  83. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    That's fine - we all have lives as well as diabetic cats. :) She's at a good number to be safe while you're out - though as you say, I never left Rosa without some low carb food to help her numbers stay level if I had to be out of the house for any length of time. She'll be fine while you're out - she's not showing signs of dropping very low and you'll have plenty of other chances to do more testing and find out when her nadir usually is. :) I hope you have a lovely time at your MIL's birthday. :) :bighug:
     
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  84. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Nice!
     
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  85. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Thanks!! :)
     
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  86. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    +11 174...still haven't given her 2 units at night. Thinking 1.5? Haven't nailed down her nadir yet...so I'm kinda freaked out about overnight. Thoughts my friends??
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
  87. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    If she's still under 200, you could go with 1.5. :) Though at some point, we will need to get you shooting the full dose into lower numbers but it will have to be at a time when you can monitor her, so picking a night when you're tired or have plans for early the next day probably won't work so well for you.
     
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  88. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Thanks!! I could not for the life of me access any of this last night. It said the server wasn't loading any data...I was freaking out. She was 122 at not even +2
    ...checked her again at +3.25 and she was 136. I kept my eye on her...she seemed to be doing well. I went to bed. I had completely changed over 2 litter boxes that I had moved to a location specifically for her. This morning there was two spots of pee right outside of them...I just don't get it. And her AMPS is 194. She's acting great! Just don't know where to go from here...luckily I put her and Lucie in a room together at night where there isn't any carpet. I'm just at a loss...she hasn't done that in weeks!! :-(
    And as far as the full dose at night...how can I watch her when the lowest number is probably +6 or even later? That puts me at 2:30 am at the earliest....?
     
  89. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    The site was down overnight Kate. From what I can make out, it was routine maintenance but something didn't come back up. It sounds as though you did a GREAT job with Kloever last night monitoring though! :)

    I never know what to advise with pee problems - all of ours have issues from time to time with missing the box or just choosing not to use it. We have all the litter boxes here either on vinyl floor or with plastic sheet under them to make clean up easier, but that's the best we've been able to do. It doesn't sound as though it's her levels that are causing it - those numbers all look fine, though if she's had any degree of neuropathy that can take time to resolve and can affect whether or not she's even aware in time that she needs to pee.

    I completely agree, the night doses and monitoring can be tough. Rosa was one who would nadir early when she was going for a reduction, so if she was going to drop low she'd almost always do it by +4 which helped, though I finished up having to move her shot times to 6am and 6pm as we'd started off with her shots at around 10am and 10pm and there were a few nights when I had to stay up with her until 4am to make sure she was staying back up in good numbers on her own. You might find that moving her shot times to earlier in the day might help - that way her +6 would be earlier too.
     
  90. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Oh man!!! Thanks so much for you kind words and help. When the site wouldn't pull up I was devastated! I was like...where are all of my friends???!!! I was truly frightened for her. I took comfort in that I was giving her way more insulin before and she was adjusting herself...I just didn't want to put her through any unnecessary stress. Then I thought about checking my email and saw your post and felt a lot better about going to bed...but boy am I paying the price today!! Haha! I'm about to get a +7 reading from her today. Hoping for some great numbers!! :) Thanks again for ALL your help and support!!! :) :) :)
     
  91. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I just noticed that your Kloever looks a lot like my J.D. with the black nose :)
     
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  92. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    TRULY!!!!! That was one of the first things I loved about her!!! A black nose instead of the usual pink!!! Very cool!!! Love it!! :)
     
  93. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Oh Kate :bighug: :bighug: :bighug:. I'm so sorry you had such a difficult evening with Kloever. You might want to join the FB group as well - just in case anything similar ever happens again. This is the link https://www.facebook.com/groups/felinediabetes/10153278911875202/

    The Facebook group doesn't give dosing advice etc, but there is support there if you need it, especially for times like this site not being available. I'm really glad you found my post through your email notifications even if it did take longer than getting to see it on here.
     
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  94. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

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    Jun 12, 2015
    Her +7 was 230... :(
    Sent a request to join the FB group!! Thanks for the link!! :)
     
  95. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    That's fine - it's really not all that different from her AMPS once you allow for the up to 20% meter variance. And that's good news - it means that although she's a little bit higher than you might like, the Lantus is keeping her numbers pretty level throughout the day. Though it looks as though she might be ready for her full dose tonight as she's over 200. :)

    I'm sure you'll be approved onto the FB group later today - it doesn't seem to take long to be added after sending a request. :) Although there isn't the same sort of dosing advice given there, there definitely IS support available - and when this site is down, that's very important to have. :)
     
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  96. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Her PMPS is 181....still 2 units tonight?? Yesterday it was 178...and she dipped to 122...?
    Added: I gave her the 2 units. I think she'll do well!! :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015
  97. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    So long as she remains above 50 mg/dL on a human meter or 68 mg/dL on a pet meter, at her lowest, she is safe.
     
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  98. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    I think she will do just fine Kate - and so will you. She didn't go below 122 last night and you've still got a fair amount of safety margin there before she gets into the sort of numbers where you need to intervene. You might find she'll make it into green tonight, but as long as you can get that +2 test on her, you'll be able to get a reasonable idea of what's likely to happen with tonight's cycle. :)

    And congrats on shooting the full dose tonight. :) :bighug:
     
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  99. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    So she probably won't go down over 131 points tonight you're saying? I will def get a +2 on her. What number for that would you consider safe for me to go to bed? I really believe overall she feels a lot better!! She's just pretty facing it on the couch right now. :) I was really nervous giving her the full dose!! I prayed when I gave it to her! :)
     
  100. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    There's no way of being 100% sure - especially if she's close to ready for a reduction. But that extra 70 points is quite a long way further for her to drop. Lantus works best at keeping normal numbers in or close to the normal range - often when people shoot a low number, the number won't vary much at all over the whole cycle. It isn't so much about having a particular number where you'd say she's safe to be left, it's about how quickly she's dropping and whether or not she levels out and is around the same number for 2-3 hours. Once you get your +2 test, we'll have a better idea of whether or not it's likely to be an active cycle. Then we can work out when you'll need to test her again. If she's surfing happily by about +4, then she'll probably not go much lower but it's too early to tell that for sure just yet. I'll check back in with you for her +2 test anyway and once you've got that number, it'll be easier to work out when you should test her next. :)

    I remember the nerves at shooting lower numbers only too well! I was terrified the first few times, especially when Rosa was earning reductions quickly - I could almost guarantee for a few weeks that shooting a low number would take her under 50 at that point!! You did really well though and even if she does drop low, you'll be able to get her back up quickly. :bighug:
     
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