Newbie, Cat Diagnosed Diabetic

Hello everyone,

I am in need of advice. My cat, Catee, 11 1/2 years old, was diagnosed with diabetes last Thursday. He has been drinking and urinating alot. This has been going on for around three to four weeks now.
Blood tests show blood sugar of 424 and he has a UTI.

Some background:
I believe he has the herpes virus that he caught from hospitalization back in 2011 when he just stopped eating. He was in there for eight days and when I brought him home he had a URI. He has flares of it occasionally and will stop eating because he can not smell his food. When he does this (about 4 times) I try to get him to eat anything. He will only eat dry food no wet. He actually runs from wet food. So this last time in April, I got friskies rise and shine dry cat food. He ate that for a few days and I just left a little bit out for him to munch on after he got better. His regular food is Purina Indoor Cat Chow. Well not to soon after is when the drinking and urinating started.

I am extremely concerned about him. I have really worried myself to death since Thursday trying to figure out what to do.

His current Vet wants to keep him two to three days for a glucose curve and put him on Purina DM Dry food. This vet treated him when Catee stopped eating. Although he was good about letting me bring him in on short notice, I felt like I could never get any answers out of him. At this Vet visit, I asked him if it was the food he was eating. Was it the friskies. He just said "some food is not as good as others". I am wondering if my cat really needs to be put through a 3 day stay? He hates the vet. It stresses him out. When they took my cat's blood at the neck, well they let it bleed and did not clean it off him. They said they could not keep him still and some come out. Well the could have cleaned him up. They did when I insisted on it.

I am also worried he will not use the long lasting insulin and/or start slow/go slow approach.

When talking to the vet over the phone, I told him I did not feel like I could give him the shots everyday. He told me if that was the case then there was no need to bring him in.
Well... I didn't know how easy or hard it could be. I can not pill my cat so I just thought I more than likely could not give him a shot. He just does not want to be messed with.

I just feel lost, even after doing all the reading from this site and others. I love my cat, he is my buddy! I willing to try to give him the shots.

I did try to switch him over to a grain free dry food this weekend. He ate it for 1 day and then stopped. I've tried the wellness can food and he just runs away. His eating is slowing down and he is only eating Cat Chow and Friskies. I did go ahead and purchase Young Again no carb cat food.

Should I take him to another vet? Do most vets want to do the glucose curves at the beginning? I've got to do something tomorrow.

Please point me in the right direction. I am just so worried about him.

Sorry if this is rambling.

Thank you for any help,
Dani

 

Hello and welcome to the board!

If you are willing to home test you don't need to do the curve at the vets. Home testing is way more reliable than a vet curve because cats blood glucose gets high with the stress of being and the vets. And then the vet prescribes too much insulin based on that number. We can help you with home testing.

Purina DM dry is not the best for diabetes. I suspect you have seen here we recommend a low carb canned wet. Friskies is more than good enough but you need to be sure it's the low carb ones like the pâtés. I would go to the pet store or Walmart and pick up a few cans of fancy feast classic pâtés, friskies pâtés, wellness grain free (I will give you a list) and see if we can get her to eat a low carb one.

It's very easy to give the shots. I have been on this forum and its rare for people to have an issue with it, the syringe is super small and the amount to dose is so small.. It's easy. They dont feel it. You do it when they are eating or sleeping and they don't even notice. Pilling is a total nightmare by comparison!!

Most vets do want to do curves, but most owners won't home test. I would ask him about home testing and if he isn't up for it, we can help you find a better vet. Also fyi the blood glucose may drop when the UTI clears.. Another reason to home test.

Wendy

 

Thank you Wendy.

I've actually already tried to do the home test. I went to Walmart Saturday and got the Reilon (?sp) meter. I've tried several times to get the ear and even the pad of his foot. No luck. He just goes crazy. If we could keep him still I would do home testing.

On the food, yes I know the canned food is best. I've tried several times before he got sick to switch with no luck. I can not get him to eat any kind. I also went to Petco last Thursday and picked up Wellness chicken grain free and fancy feast classic wet food. He runs from them. With this vet, I really did not want to start Purina DM dry because it wasn't very good. That is why I just went ahead and purchased the Young Again dry food.

So more than likely any vet I will take him too will want to do a glucose curve? Right now I can not do the home testing but will continue to try.

If I can give him the shot while he is sleeping that would be great!

On the UTI, the Vet told me that is was normal for a cat to have it when they have diabetes. Once the diabetes was cleared up the UTI would go away. Is this true?
He also told me that is was rare for cats to have diabetes.

Thank you
Dani

 

ok you need a new vet. If you look at this forum you will see many many cats with diabetes. It's common and getting more so all the time. Why else would purina make a food specially for it? I have two diabetic cats myself and its not rare at all. My sister in law had two as well.

Second UTIs are very common with diabetic cats because diabetes means they spill excess sugar into their pee. Makes the urinary tract a perfect feeding ground for bacteria! What is your closest city and I will see if we can find another vet.

He runs from the food? Wow. That's funny. But he eats the friskies so I would definately try a few similar but low carb flavours since it obviously can be done!! And you could try a gradual transition from the current food.. perhaps by topping the new food with the old. And there's the young again when it arrives. And you could try these tips, they are for getting a cat off of dry food but some of the tips may help with a switch of wet too.. http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf

Ok testing , that's great you have a meter. Good start, now lets see how we can get tests in. Are you giving a treat afterward anyway? What do you mean, goes crazy?

Wendy

 

Well, the Vet said once the diabetes was under control the UTI would go away. But I always thought the had to be cleared up with antibiotics.
Yeah, him saying that diabetes was rare in cats makes me wonder.

He will eat Friskies dry food not the wet unfortunately. He takes a wiff of the wet food and runs off. Right now his appetite is low. Has really slowed down on his eating. Something else I am worried about.

I will PM you my location. I've been looking on the internet and got on Angies List. I may have found one but don't know until I go to see her.

When I cut his claws, I will have my mother hold him. He will squirm but not too bad. She will let him down and then pick him up again to finish the claws.
When I tried to do the glucose test, he started meowing loudly. Kicking with his back lets. I mean really pitching a fit. I've never seen him do this way at home. It might have been the vet visit that got him so upset and he thought it was them again??
I always give him treats when clipping his claws. I did not after trying to do the glucose tests.

Thank you for helping.

 

I also want to add his behavior since coming from the Vet last Tuesday.

He has started sleeping all the time. Is not very active. Has stopped jumping up on his "greeting stool"
I can tell he feels bad and is sick.

On his eating, ate 4 ozs dry yesterday and 2 ozs dry today. Last week he only ate 2-3 ozs on two days. Ate more on Friday. Only 2 ozs Saturday.

 

Ok, can you smell his breath? Does it smell like acetone/nail polish remover? If it does, he needs to go back to the vet now.

Tomorrow go and pick up some urine glucose test strips and test his pee for ketones.

Let me see if we can find you a better vet. It sounds like he really needs insulin.

Also start rubbing his ears when you stroke him to get him used to that to start off.. Tests can come later once he is used to it.

 

Hi Dani,

My cat was recently diagnosed too, so I know how much there is to think about and how worried you are feeling!
Sending big hugs!

I am not very experienced with all this, but everyone here is lovely and so helpful so I'm sure you will be able to find some excellent info and support here.

If you are not happy with the current vet in any way, I would definitely be looking for a new one. Don't be afraid to ask lots of questions (if the vet doesn't know, they should find out for you and get back to you!) and do what you think is right for your cat (and you). Remember that in the end, you are the one paying the vet to work for you (sometimes it can be easy for both parties to forget this!) and it is your cat - you probably know Catee better than anyone other person, and obviously you want the best for him

Re: herpes - I am not familiar with this, but is there some kind of test that could be done to check if he does have the herpes virus? Just thinking that if he is fighting that too, it may impact his diabetes treatment... ?

I hope he eventually switches over to the wet food for you - I do think it makes a really big difference and is worth persisting with I don't have any tips though, sorry As Wendy's said though, if you switch him, keep an eye on the BG (blood glucose) levels as the food change plus insulin (if he is getting it) could drop his BGs too low and you want to be aware of that if it looks likely.

Once you have your insulin and the necessary gear, you can essentially dose Catee as YOU see fit, not necessarily have to stick to what the vet suggests if you think it's too high, etc. If you do go this route, definitely err on the side of caution of course, keep excellent records (do that anyway!!) and I would ask the expert members on this board for advice as well as perhaps looking at the Lantus tight protocol and other info that is available (not sure what insulin you'd be using). I don't know about you, but once I started thinking of what my vet said as it being 'professional suggestions' (ie. not 'the law'!), it became easier for me to use that vet advice, along with information I researched elsewhere to make informed choices that I thought were best and most appropriate for my cat.

Giving shots is easier than pilling a cat! As is home-testing (especially after the first few goes). Wendy has already given better advice than I can, but I just wanted to say that you are not alone!

Also, my cat had a UTI recently (likely because of the excess glucose in the pee as Wendy has mentioned) but we were able to clear it up quite quickly. I think a wet food should actually lessen the chance of UTIs occurring too.
I wouldn't say it's "normal" for a diabetic cat to have a UTI! but yes, it is more likely/there is more risk of a diabetic cat developing a UTI than a non-diabetic. Not sure about the UTI magically disappearing once the diabetes is cleared up (my guess is it would depend on the existing bacteria that remain), and at any rate, your cat should not have to suffer the discomfort of a UTI until the diabetes is regulated! For my cat, a short-term painkiller was prescribed for the UTI, with a 2 week course of antibiotics (1 pill twice a day - I just popped it in her food and she was fine to eat it that way - definitely try give pills in food if you can, it is soo much easier and less stressful for you both!). That seemed to work well.

That's awesome that you are trying the home testing already! Make sure practice on yourself and to warm up the ear first (make it much easier to get enough blood) - just pour some boiling water over a face towel and flap it around till not too hot, then put in a ziplock plastic bag and hold against ear. There is lots of really helpful info on ear testing on the forum so have a read around Can you do it while he is sitting on your lap or sleeping or something? Also make sure to give lots of cuddles/small treat each time (even if you aren't successful) and maybe try massaging/playing with his ears and not even trying to poke, just to get him used to it?

It's not that rare for cats/dogs to have diabetes now... apparently the numbers are going up because nowdays people are feeding dry food more often than more natural wet food diets (I felt awful when I found that out of course!). I think I read somewhere it's a number like 1 in 400 cats is diabetic? and more common in Burmese (genetic I think), interestingly.

Good luck with everything!!

 

Here are some home testing tips that may help but first get him used to ear touching. i would rub ears, give treat. Wait 30 minutes. Repeat until rubbing ears makes him happy. Ideally a low carb treat - freeze dried chicken is always popular.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

Wendy

 

Thank you both for responding.

Wendy, I will have to see if I can smell his breath. He isn't meowing/talking right now.
I've read that is a sign of Ketoacidosis.

I'll get some urine strips tomorrow.

Thank you for the link on testing.

 

Just wanted to let you all know that I am taking Catee to the vet I spoke of in my posts. I feel like he needs to get stabilize and that I really do not have time right now to find him a new vet. I will update on how he is doing.

 

Ok.. It's good at least because u can get him started on insulin sooner rather than later, but remember this vet is reltaively inexperienced.
So when he prescribes insulin please insist on a good one like lantus, levemir or prozinc. Out of date vets tend to choos humalin/novolin, vetsulin(a new variety of a not good old one), caninsulin. Those are very harsh and not good for cats (better for dogs).Also u don't want pills (glipizide) as they damage the pancreas permanently.
The ones I recommend have up to 40% chance of remission.

Before you shoot for th first time too, please come here and let us double check the dose. Many vets will start too high (partly because of the stress induced high blood sugar during the vet curve) and then the cat can have a hypo when it gets home. We like to start at most at 1 unit and work up.

I will let u know when I hear about another vet

Wendy

 

Hi,

Well I got him there this morning for a three day stay.

The vet said the insulin he is giving my cat is 80% PZI and 20% of the fast acting insulin. He said the name but I really did not understand it.
Would you know what insulin he is talking about?

He also said that the cat's dosage would have to be adjusted when I got him home... but to still give him what the vet tells me. ??

 

You do not want a combination insulin like that 80/20% mix your vet used at his clinic. That takes very close monitoring, every 1 hour at least and skill to know what to do if the cat goes low. It may be used to help treat the DKA.

If your vet tries to send you home with that combination, I would refuse it. That is too dangerous for you to be using at home alone.

You want Lantus, Levimir or Prozinc or PZI. If your vet doesn't know about these insulins, you need to find a vet that has more experience with the good insulins for cats. Maybe there is someone else in that same animal hospital?

Where do you live? We may have someone that can recommend a vet.

No Vetsulin or Caninsulin either - those are for dogs.
No Humulin N or Novolin N either - those do not last long enough in a cat. They are cheap, but require you to dose every 6-8 hours. Can you commit to that?

Lantus and Levimir have a better chance of remission for your cat. Remission is the goal these days, not simply regulation. If your vet does not know this, he needs to learn really, really fast or you need to find a different vet.

 

Vet has him on Vetsulin. I spoke to him awhile ago. Vet said that he has not had good results with putting cats on Lantus and that Vetsulin has PZI in it 70%.
He said that the Vetsulin will get it regulated throughout the day and reduces the chance of extreme highs and lows.

Catee got 2 1/2 units today. BG down to 80. He has not eaten all day. He is putting him on a antibiotic for the UTI.

Could you please point me to some information on why Vetsulin should not be used for cats. I know you said it was mainly for dogs.

 

I am not sure anyone here can do that, really. A reformulated Vetsulin was just introduced to the US market a few weeks ago. The FDA pulled a previous-generation Vetsulin from the US market a few years ago because of inconsistencies in its manufacturing. The people on this Board have no experience with the new formulation, and opinions about the old formulation aren't necessarily valid with regard to the new formulation.

Because of the newness of the product, your vet also likely has no experience with it either and is only drawing knowledge from the manufacturer's marketing of the product based on clinical trials.

It is your choice whether you want your cat to be on the cutting edge of using a new product. I was faced with the same decision a few years back when Levemir came onto the Canadian market (and thus could be brought into the US by friends living near the US-Canada border). Even though my cat wasn't doing great on PZI at the time, I held back about six months until I saw how other cats here on the FDMB did on Levemir. There is a difference between Vetsulin now and Levemir then because Vetsulin has been subjected feline clinical trials whereas Levemir (which is not FDA-approved for felines) had not been through such clinical trials. (Levemir still hasn't been subjected to feline trials as far as I know, but this Board has plenty of anecdotal experience with Levemir now.)

BTW, I am not pushing Levemir because I know that lots of vets are completely unfamiliar with it and will not prescribe it.

But there is plenty of academic and veterinary literature on the use of Lantus in cats. It's too bad that your vet hasn't had good experience with it because it is probably the most highly regarded insulin for diabetic cats. Faced with a vet unwilling to prescribe Lantus, and if I did not want to change vets, I would likely ask for ProZinc or the PZI compounded by BCP Veterinary Pharmacy in Houston TX. They are both effective for many cats, easy to use (actually easier IMO than Lantus), and there are plenty of folks here who know how to advise about their use. I would be concerned that with the reformulated Vetsulin, there is little practical knowledge or experience on any of the diabetic cat groups or among the vets.

Good luck to you and your kitty.

 

BG of 80 is pretty low. Dose of 2.5 units is pretty high. Cat that has not eaten, has UTI, has too much insulin are classic setup for DKA. What meter are you using for testing? When was the BG of 80 in relation to the insulin. I'm concerned that your vet started your cat on too high of a dose of insulin and may be in danger of hypoglycemia. Please print and read this article ASAP. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=15887

Can you do a BG test now?

Lantus has about a 80-90% success rate of remission in the first 6 months per research from the University of Queensland, with some of the top researchers on feline diabetes for the last 10-15 years.

Slideshow presentation by U of Q on the various insulins here: http://www.uq.edu.au/vetschool/content/clinic-stlucia/feline-dm.pdf
Maybe send this to your vet to get him up to date.

 

I was waiting to post because I thought I would get a call today from the Vet. I did not.

Catee is currently at the vet for a 3 day stay. Today was his second day and he is suppose to come home tomorrow.
So the 80 BG was at the vet's office.

Honestly... I do not think my vet would even look at the link you suggested. Especially since he said that he has not had good results with Lantus.

I really do not know what to do. I took him in to save his life.

 

Deep breaths. On the bright side you will be getting shown how to give insulin, and be given insulin or a prescription for it. And You have a testing kit.

That's a good start.
You have three choices...

1. Call and insist on lantus or another insulin
2. find another vet
3. Or We can try work on everything else once you get him home. It might be a little trial and error for all of us. It may involve a bit more testing. but If there is an issue and this doesn't work out, then you start looking for another vet and another insulin.

We will support you in any of your decisions!



Wendy

 

Thank you. I really appreciate the reassurance.

Day 3 in the hospital. Catee has not eaten at all at that time. He did not drink any water on the first day and had to be put on fluids.
Vet is going to force feed tonight to see if getting food in him will help. Will call back tomorrow to see how to proceed.

Vet says his blood sugar is at 101 but he can not get him regulated until he starts eating.
Catee had about stopped eating when I got him there Tuesday. He was only eating from 2 - 4 ozs of dry food as I stated before.
I asked the Vet if he thought something else is making him not eat. He said maybe. That usually they will not eat the first day but after that they start.

I am so worried. :sad:

 

We are worrying along with you. Hope Catee starts eating soon.

It would be very unusual for a cat to get regulated (BG numbers ) at the vets office. This can be a months long process. Not sure what your vet means by 'getting him regulated'.

 

I believe the Vet thinks he can get the cat regulated at the office because when I mentioned about stress making BG higher... he said it will have to be adjusted at home.

I don't know :sigh:

2 years ago Catee stopped eating. I believe Science Diet Hairball control cat food made him sick. He started throwing up and just stopped eating. It was a month long process to get him back to eating. Then after he started back he got a URI.

I hope Catee doesn't think I've give up on him... I should have went to the Vet's office to visit him today. I know that sounds silly.

 

Hi and welcome! I'm Kat and Gobbles is my awesome kitty! He was on Lantus, and as of today, it has been 2 weeks since he was no longer insulin! Without the people here, this would of never been possible; he went into remission after only 6 months! There are kitties here who went into remission after only one month!! As everyone has stated, do try to get a better insulin--it is imperative for the health of your kitty. He's your cat and you're the one paying the bill. Wouldn't you do the same for your (human) child? I don't know where you are, but if you are close to me, I would be more than happy to help you (are you in the USA? NE or Midwest?) find a better vet, and teach you how to test and give shots. I am assuming you're in the US, because you mentioned that you purchased a ReLion meter. As for your kitty's insulin--If it were me, I would insist on Lantus, Levemir or PZI, and if my current vet would not prescribe it, he'd/she'd be history. I had to fire the vet who originally diagnosed Gobbles; he forced the prescription food on me and would not even prescribe any brand of insulin. Thank God, I found an awesome vet. We will help you as much as we can. We have all been through the very scary first steps of a newly diagnosed kitty. Hang in there; you have a lot of people here to help you, support you and educate you.

 

Well I think I've about decided to go to the Vet and get Catee home.

 

You've mentioned that right now, he won't eat wet food. Obviously, he needs to eat something, and lower carb would be better.

There are 3 dry foods which are low carb enough to be used, while you continue to work on transitioning to a low carb wet food. They are Young Again 0 carb (internet sales only), Evo Cat and Kitten, and Wellness Core in the tan and gold bag.

Stella and Chewy's freeze dried may be used too, and gradually moistening it might help transition to wet food.

 

Be careful if you go with unreconstituted Stella and Chewy's as a primary food. I've know cats to get constipation (requiring emergency care) from that.

 

This is the inexperienced vet right? Sorry you are having all these issues. I have heard back from Georgia and she has a friend in your town that she is asking for a vet recommendation from. You could also try her vet but its 30 mins from you - is that too far?

The main priority right now is to get him eating again. Give him whatever he will eat - high or low carb - what ever his favourite foods are. And test his pee for ketones to keep an eye on him.

Meanwhile we can work on the vet issue.

Wendy

 

Still waiting on that other member to recommend a vet but meanwhile I found this

 

Hi everyone,

I want to apologize for not posting the last couple of days. I've been working with Catee and trying to learn the routine.

I appreciate the referral to the Cat Clinc. I will keep it in mind.

I saw another vet in the same office. Still using Vetsulin. He said to me it did not matter the type of insulin that was used but to change what my cat eats. He said he would give me any insulin I wanted but he believed this was the best until I can get him converted over to a lower carb diet. He explained alot of things to me. He actually has a cat that went into remission from diabetes after insulin treatment and changing diet. He did not say which insulin though.

So Catee is home. He has ate well... 4 ozs of food. He really needs 5.5 ozs. I still can not get him to eat the prescription food. Wet or dry. So he is eating Indoor Cat Chow. I feel that since he went without food for 60 hours he just needs to eat something.

Vet told me to give half unit if his blood glucose is between 126 and 200. He was 189 Saturday afternoon. I gave him the insulin. Came down to 138, 5 hours later. Then this morning he was at 161. I gave him his shot and it had been probably an hour since he ate last. He acted aggravated this time when I gave the shot. Like it did something to him. I did not take his blood sugar. So I am not sure if it went way down or not.

I am having quite a hard time adjusting to all this. He bites when trying to take his blood glucose. I suppose because I have to punch him twice. I just can't get the blood going good. Then the shot he is constantly trying to bite me. I am having a very hard time giving them to him. I try to catch him when he is sleeping but always seems to wake up. Pulling up his skin seems difficult and I always forget to release the tent. Vet told me to put him up on the table and not to get on the cat's level. Maybe that is what I need to do.

Overall I feel emotionally and physically drained. I have health problems of my own and this hasn't helped that any.

I will keep everyone updated. I really appreciate the help.

 

Hi; glad Catee is home. Nope, that other vet is completely wrong, wrong, wrong on the insulin. But changing the diet is good and it is possible for a kitty to go into remission (diet controlled and no insulin) when eating a strict, low carb, wetfood-only diet. I know you are having problems getting Catee to eat and getting her to eat anything is good at this point. I'm sure you would like to transition her to a strict diet, mentioned above. If the vet offered to give you any insulin you wanted, I would take advantage of that and choose one of the good ones: Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc... Many cats have gone into remission while using one of those insulins; my cat Gobbles went into remission on Lantus (after 6 months) and adhering to a strict low carb diet. However, it is imperative to hometest to work towards that goal. Good luck & have a wonderful Sunday!

 

You might be interested in this slideshow put together by some of the top researchers in feline diabetes. Dr Rand at the University of Queensland. It's several years old but still relevant. It talks about the different insulin types and how you may see good clinical control on one insulin but not good BG (blood glucose) control. It also talks about the different remission rates with the various insulins. Vetsulin/Caninsulin is mentioned as having good glycemic control but too short of a duration and a remission rate of only 20-30%.

http://www.uq.edu.au/vetschool/content/clinic-stlucia/feline-dm.pdf

I highly recommend reading this. Won't take much time.

I'd rather use Lantus with it's greater than 90% remission rate.

 

If you elevate your cat Catee, it may make him more comfortable. Looming over him can give him that feeling of being trapped.
Some people give the shot's while their cat is eating. I'm not sure that is a good idea if Catee is not eating well right now.

You might want to read this wonderful article on ear testing psychology written by member Kpassa. It's about how to make your cat more comfortable with the testing process.https://sites.google.com/site/michelangeloprofilefdmb/feline-diabetes/ear-testing-psychology

Another thought I had, was if you were to describe to us, what you do to prepare for the testing. We may see something that is missing and a small change may make it easier.

Oh honey, I wish I lived really close to you so I could come give you a great big hug. cyber hugs will have to do for now {{{{hugs}}}}

We are here, to provide not just the how to's of dealing with diabetes, but to support you emotionally however we can. Remember to take some time each day to do something special for yourself, for at least a few minutes, to refresh and recharge yourself. You are just as important as your cat Catee.

Vent if you need to. Cry on our shoulders. We understand how hard this is for you. We have all been there.

 

Believe me, it took a bit of time for me to adjust; I have health problems as well, and in fact, had cut down on one medication in order to keep an eye on Gobbles in the middle of the night and test him as necessary--I'd set the alarm, get up and stay up as long as necessary. Some nights I had to set the alarm a second time, to keep him safe. I changed my life in order to take care of him the best that I could. I think part of your problem with testing and shooting him is that you are most likely very stressed out; your cat cat feel that and for one, he does not want to conform to the testing and the shots, and for two, stress causes many cats' BG to go higher. As for the bleeding problem--his ears will "learn to bleed". If all else fails with the ear testing, you can always test in his back paw pad although some cat's abhor that. Gosh I wish we lived close to eachother so I would be able to help you out :cry: Ask, ask, ask away any questions or concerns you may have. And don't ever feel like a question is a dumb one; the only dumb question is the one you don't ask Deb has given you (along with others) some awesome advice; when you have time, try to read all the stickies, but not at once. I know that getting the diagnoses, worrying about your kitty, learning to test and shoot and read all the stickies is very, very overwhelming. I had printed out a lot of the stickies and would study them when I had time (esp. any sticky regarding hypos!!!). I use to cry, cry, cry; I once broke down in a movie theater; thank goodness it was dark--my daughter was with me (one of the Lord of The Rings movies) and hugged, held my hand and told me everything would be okay <3

 

It will get better dont worry! You have had some bad luck with vets etc but you are still making progress

Insulin - seriously, next time you are there, ask for Lantus, Levemir or Prozinc. They have a proven record for inducing remission (with a good diet) in up to 40% cats.

Food - Forget the prescription food. Most cats get sick of the liver flavour in a few days. But dry cat chow is worse. So how about we try some low carb dry foods instead? Then you can work on transitioning him off those to wet. Its important to keep him eating. Here are some low carb dry :Innova Evo Cat & Kitten, Wellness Core Grain-Free Original Formula (tan gold bag), Nature's Variety Raw Instinct chicken, and Young Again zero Carb.

testing - FANTASTIC JOB ON THE TESTING!!!! Always give a treat afterward. Make sure you warm the ears well first - even if its just by massage. Here are some tips: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13c_CPZVKz27fD_6aVbsguadJKvjSrSAkD7flgPPhEag/pub

Shooting - Next time you are at the vet ask him to shave a few spots so you can better see what you are doing in order to give the shot. I would test, then feed and shoot him while he is busy eating. What size needles are you using? Shorter ones you dont need to tent as much - my husband prefers to pull the skin up by the fur and shoots in the skin that appears.

Lastly - we dont advise newbies shoot under 200 until they know for sure how the cat is going to behave - since you already did this can you get a test asap or at least 2 hours from his shot.. you dont want any surprises. let us know where he is, i will be here watching!!!

The good news is these numbers make me feel very optimistic that a food change could make a huge difference to him and maybe bring him into control or even remission fast.

You are doing great. It is a steep learning curve but you will get it.. and Catee should start to feel better soon now.
Wendy

 

I really do appreciate you all helping me. I really do. Helps me deal with this better. I've already had my good cry while he was in the hospital. Like a big blubbering fool

Catee did not eat much this morning. Maybe 1 oz. This is cat chow and I only put 2.5 ozs in the bowel. He is a free feeder. I have always measured out a cup, 8ozs, of food and put it in his bowel. I guess he is used to seeing a full bowel and I believe that maybe the reason he did not eat much this morning. Not sure. Once I filled the bowel up with a cup full, he ate 2 ozs.

It was time for his shot at 5pm. I took his bg and it was 144. I did not give him a shot. I felt like if I did he would drop fast, especially since he did not eat much. Plus the shot this morning seem to make him sleepy for awhile

I am trying to get him switched over to Young Again but he isn't having it... yet. I did switch him out to Blue Buffalo Wilderness dry. Which I know still is not the best but it is lower in carbs than cat chow. He did eat some of it. I will retest him later tonight and tomorrow morning and see where he is at.

The vet never told me but what is the goal blood glucose for him? I do hope just a change in food will do it for him. I still believe the Friskies Dry food caused this... or helped it come about quicker.

Also I am using the U-40 needs with red caps. They do not have the short needles on them. I requested half mark needles but Vet said they did not have them or did not make them. I forgot which.
Can I get the U-40 needles in half marks with short needles?

Thank you
Dani

 

No. Sorry, but U-40 insulin syringes are not available with half unit markings. No manufacturer makes them.

What you could do, is buy U-100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings and short needles. There is a conversion chart you would then use to measure out the U-40 insulin in the U-100 syringe.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

 

Without experience we don't advise newbies shoot under 200 .., and especially when catee isn't eating. So you did the right thing!

For now you really need to get him eating properly.

Wendy

 

Switching food gradually is recommended as it is less likely to provoke GI upsets, and it gives the cat a slow introduction to the new taste & maybe texture.

You could do it a tablespoon at a time - replace 1 tablespoon old with 1 tablespoon new then 2 tablespoons old with new, and so on.

 

I thought I would just keep updating on Catee.

Yesterday he ate around 4 ozs of food. I got him to eat the Young Again food. I know mixing is the best option but since he basically stopped eating I thought starting off with new would be okay.

I took his blood sugar this morning around 6 am and it was 89.
I believe he ate around 2 ozs of Young Again this morning/afternoon... not sure though because I can not remember how much I put in the bowel. But it was evident he was eating it and not the bowel of cat chow.

Took his blood sugar at 6 pm and it was 84.

I am surprised the BG is that low? I am wondering if he is getting enough to eat. 12 pound cat at the vet.

 

Or it could be the zero carb having an immediate effect in lowering his BG.

You got two nice low numbers - when were they taken in relation to his shot.? I hope you didnt shoot with those numbers!!

 

Oh no no! No Shots since Sunday 5am. Geez I forgot to mention that.

 

User control panel instructions.

Would you please provide us with some more information and put this in your user control panel? It helps us to help you better.

Go to the upper left corner of your screen and click on the words, User Control Panel
On the next screen, a row of tabs is presented. Select the Profile tab
On the next screen, there are a number of choices along the left hand side.
Select Edit Signature from the left hand list of options.
A free form text box appears.
We like to see information like your name, your cats name age and sex, the diagnosis date for the diabetes like this (DX 4/30/13), what meter you are using for testing, what insulin you are using , what you are feeding (wet or dry, what brands/style of food), any complicating health issues your cat may have, any additional medications your cat is receiving. If you are using a pet specific meter like an Alphatrak or Ipet, please change the font size on that text from Normal to Large (using the drop down arrow list in the middle of the editing commands)

Click on submit to save this information. Now, this will appear at the end of every post you make. You can update the info when you need to.

Think of this as having some very useful information at our finger tips for those that are replying to your posts.

Would you please do those updates when you get a chance? Thanks.

 

Ok great so keep testing say twice a day... Maybe also do a test before he eats and then an hour after. If its lower after he eats then his pancreas is working which is great. Give him frequent mini meals instead of a couple of big ones.

Let's see how he gets on.

Wendy

 

Update:

Catee gave up on eating Young Again. Not sure what it was but I can tell you the food smells really bad. I would think he love it.

Tuesday, I went back to the bad Cat Chow. He ate about 2 ozs of it free feeding. Took his blood sugar and it was 198. Ouch! I decided against a shot since he had not ate very much.

Before I went to bed I put out Purina DM dry. I did not think he would eat it because he would not Saturday or Sunday.
Well to my surprise he dove into it. Ate around 2 maybe 3 ozs throughout the night. Blood sugar this morning 98.

Hopefully he will continue eating it and his blood sugar will continue to stay low. Just have to make sure he gets enough to eat.
No Shots since Sunday morning.

He has started in the drinking alot thing again. I haven't checked the litter box yet to see if the urinating alot has started back up.
Vet said UTI would clear up when diabetes is regulated did but wondering if it has... or if the high reading from Tuesday got it started back.

 

We'd really like to see you feeding a lower carb canned food to Catee. It made such a huge difference in Wink's blood glucose (BG) levels that I let people know his story.

Wink is a foster kitty from my local animal shelter. He was abandoned by his people after they found out he was diabetic and did not want to care for him. He ended up at the MSPCA and then was transferred to my local animal shelter, a no kill facility in Oct 2012. They began treating him for his diabetes with Lantus insulin but he was eating all the other high carb foods that the other cats eat at the shelter.

The vet suggested trying to feed Wink on a grain free food. Well, the grain free food was still very high in carbs, Arcana 24-26% and he kept getting UTI's and frequent bouts of diarrhea and his BG's were still in the 300's to 400's. Then the vet suggested feeding Wink Hill's W/d because that is supposed to be a good food for diabetics according to the manufacturer. Well, he still had the same UTI, diarrhea, uncontrolled high BG numbers. They kept changing the dose, based on a pre-shot number which is not how the Lantus insulin dosing changes are done and still giving him the high carb food.

At that point they were still looking for a foster home to help Wink. I had recently lost one of my cats to heart disease and had room in my heart and my home for another cat. So, I contacted the shelter and said I'd like to meet Wink and talk about fostering him.

Well, about 2 weeks later, Wink was at my home, being pampered and I was trying to switch him to a low carb canned diet because I had read that could help not only with the diabetes but with his frequent UTI's and diarrhea. It took weeks and many tips and tricks from this article by vet Dr Lisa Pierson http://www.catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf to get Wink over to a canned food diet. He was a dry food addict.

4 weeks later, Wink was on his first OTJ trial. By the middle of March, he had passed his 2nd OTJ trial with flying colors (greens of course) and has been diet controlled, no insulin for several months now.

The first 6 months is your best chance to get your cat into remission. This has been shown by various vet studies.

I urge you to try the low carb canned food. It can make all the difference between a strong chance at remission and having your cat on insulin for the rest of his life. I'll tell you what tricks worked well with Wink. Just ask.

 

they tend to urinate a lot when they go over the renal threshold ( around 270) for any length of time. He may be doing that at times. One way to find out - test the urine for sugar.. you can get urine glucose strips at any pharmacy. And the keto-diastix also test for ketones which is a bonus!

Wendy

 

Thank you both for responding.

I keep trying to get him on the wet food. It is just so hard. He runs away from it. I keep trying though.

He is drinking alot of water but not urinating alot. I will have to get the Keto tester.

At 6pm his BG was 111. He is now not eating again. Has not eaten at all this morning.
I am really not sure what to do anymore. One day he eats one food, the next something else.

I just wish he would keep eating... something.

 

That's a low BG reading. Still no insulin being given, correct?

I'm more concerned about him not eating than getting him to switch to wet food. He needs to eat.

He's just being a cat! :lol: :lol: :lol: Sometimes, 4 or 5 cans got opened before Wink would eat one. I have two civie garbage disposols that were very happy to get his rejects.

You can try putting a tiny bit of the wet food on top of his dry. So he has to eat around the wet to get to the dry.

The chip and dip method. Dip a piece of the dry food into the wet food, just so you have a tiny piece of your 'dip' (wet food) on the piece of dry. Do this for 6 -8 pieces. Hand feed him the pieces. Or put them separately on a plate.

 

He isn't getting insulin so that's not a worry. But you do want to keep him eating.. Is he losing weight?

Does he sniff the food and then look at you and meow again? Maybe he is hoping for something better.

Or does he sniff the food and lick his Lips? In which case it could be nausea.

 

Correct he is not getting any insulin.

He does like he is looking at the water then his food. Starts to the food and then turns to the water.
He also sniffs the food and turns away. He doesn't look at me like he wants something else. He just turns around.
I do not think he licks his lips but I will look next time.

Now I had Purina DM out. He ate a little and I mean a little.
I brought out another dish with Young Again and he started eating a little. Just awhile ago, he was devouring it.

So I am not sure what to do. I have been wondering if it is nausea. He had slowed on his eating before taking him to the vet. From 2 to 4 ozs a day.
I've also kind of wondered if the Vetsulin did something to him.

Now I know it has been since early Sunday morning that I gave him the last shot. But he was eating pretty good before I gave it to him. Vet was giving .5 and him not eating.
So I just trying to figure this out. He is just laying around and not doing very much at all. Goes from laying in his bed to laying on the rug. Sometimes he will jump on the ottoman for me to pet him.

 

Catee did not eat much again this morning/afternoon.

Checked litter box and he has started urinating alot again. He drunk alot of water last night. He isn't going to the litter box as much. Maybe once a day. Though it appears when he goes he urinates alot, like this morning.

I can't understand what is happening. His blood sugar is low... since he is not eating much. Why has he started the urinating/drinking alot again? Could it be the UTI did not go away and is making him sick?

I did not see on the invoice where the vet charged for giving him any antibiotics.

 

I would love to see him running from the food.. lol!

how is his BG today? you want to test twice a day for now, if he can sustain 50-130 for 14 days then we consider him in remission..

Check for the lip licking but it sounds like fussy eater to me. I am not surprised he doesn't like the purina DM, my cats got sick of that fast.

What weight is he? He is eating 2-4oz of dry a day?
Wendy

 

Ok I looked up young again zero carb and its 4070cals per kg. which is 4cals per gram. Which is 112calories per ounce.. 340 calories for 3oz. That's a lot of calories.. Maybe he just isn't hungry...

 

Posting late because I was unable to get his blood sugar this morning. He is gaining his strength back I believe because I can no longer hold him myself to take the BG.

BG at 7pm was 69. Which seems low to me and the lowest it has ever been at home.

No shots.

He ate 2 ozs Young Again yesterday.

So far ate 2 ozs Young Again today.

He weighed 14 pounds at the Vet but I believe he has lost some because he does not feel as heavy.

I guess he is eating enough. Young Again says for a cat 10- 15 lbs feed 1/4 - 1/3 cup.
He still acts like he feels bad but is starting to walk around more. Plus he actually jumped up on his greeting stool today

Is that BG reading too low??

 

That BG of 69 is certainly too low to give any insulin.

Was that test right around normal shot time?

40-120 normal non-diabetic BG range
low to mid 200's at pre-shot is considered regulated, with a dip down into the double digits but not below 50 at mid-day.
> 230-280 over the renal threshold and damaging the organs

 

Sounds like he is doing ok ... Keep us updated!

 

Oh no, not going to give any insulin. It is the regular time I've been taking the BG and was giving shots. Maybe an hour later today.

Just making sure that number is okay. Seems so low compared to what I have been getting.
Not shots since last Sunday.

Thanks Wendy.
Thanks Deb.

Is that good... that it is at 69? I am a worrier

 

Normal cats are 50-130, 69 is perfectly normal..

 

Yes, that is very good. Those are normal non-diabetic numbers. Numbers of a food regulated kitty. Numbers that Wendy would die for to see with her cats Tiggy and Bailey.

Without more insulin, your cat can not go too low and hypo.

Keep those nice numbers up, twice a day, for 14 days and your cat would be considered to be in remission.

 

How is she doing now?

 

Hi. Thank you for checking in.

Unfortunately, he is not doing very good. At least to me.

He did not eat very much at all yesterday. Maybe an ounce of dry food. He licked on wet food but would not eat it completely.
Yesterday I went to the grocery store and bought some of the junk cat food. He would not even eat it.

His BG is staying down. From 65 to 115. He has started urinating alot again. Not as much as before but it is not normal.

He ate a little this morning but not much. I am extremely worried about fatty liver.
My friends & relatives keep telling me that he is going to be okay. That I am worrying to much about him.

Just do not know what to do. If he would just eat.

 

Its good that his BG is normal, thats something. But you are right to be concerned - has he ever done this before? A furball maybe? I think as long as he eats a little then fatty liver isnt so much of a concern right now but I think I would call the vet for his opinion. And if he stops eating for more than 12 hours, or isnt eating more by end tomorrow, take him in to the vet. There may be an underlying condition that exacerbated the initial diabetes.

Also I have tried these crumbled on top of food - olives, cheesy puff chips, shortbread, milk, cream, white cake, ham, olive oil, dried chicken treats, all sorts of cheese, any meat I can find cooked or raw. Basically anything you know he likes. I put small bits of everything on a plate and try them one at a time. and if he eats it I put it on top of wet food next.

Wendy

 

He stopped eating about 2 years ago in 2011. He was eating Science Diet Hairball dry food and I believe it caused him to get sick. Basically he started vomiting and then stopped eating. He was at the vet then for 8 days before they got him to eat on his own. Then he got a URI (from the vet office I believe) and stopped eating again. For two weeks I would sit and feed him dry food by hand. Vet never said he had fatty liver but I believe he was at it.

I haven't got EVO yet but he will not touch Wellness Core. He goes to the bowel like he wants it and then turns around.

I will try what you suggested on the post. Is there an alternative to the Fortiflora? Petco or Petsmart does not have it.

On his BG, this may sound like a dumb question, but could it still be high even when he is not eating? Or is it low because he is not eating much?

 

Try eBay for fortiflora.

I thought you said his BG was 65-115. That's normal cat.. Not low and not high. And he has only been not eating a couple of days right? Have you tested him the last two days?

Does he lick his lips first then turn away? Lip smacking sound?

Wendy

 

Yes I have been taking his blood sugar twice a day. I was just wondering about BG being high when not eating much. I saw another post where someone's cat was not eating and it's BG was high.

Right yesterday and today has not ate much.

The only time he does the lip licking is when he wakes up from sleeping. Which I think he has always done it.That is when he gets up and goes to eat. He doesn't do it when at the bowel.

 

Ok then maybe he isn't nauseaus and it sounds like his BG isn't high if you tested and its under 130. So try a variety of foods like I suggested and see if he will take any.

Does he like to chase things?

 

Well, if I tie a piece of paper to a string he will chase that Never would play with any cat toys I got him though.

Since he was diagnosed, he really hasn't wanted to play much.

I've been thinking, the Vet said the UTI would clear up when the diabetes got under control. Since his urinating is still alot compared to what it should be...I wonder if he still has a UTI and that is causing him not to eat.

 

Honestly I am more thinking a kidney problem.

But as regards play I was wondering if you threw his kibble, would he chase it? My boys do and when they "catch it" they eat it.. basic instinct I think. I have to wind them up first by wiggling the treat in my hand and throwing it a few times for them to know what my plans are.. then I scoot the piece of kibble ( or other hard treat) along the floor surface.

 

Well I have a little better news. Catee ate about 4 ozs Cat Chow Indoor and 1 Ounce of Young Again yesterday. I know Cat Chow is not good but I am just trying to get him to eat anything.

So I just took his BG. About an hour early than normal and it was 50. I've never seen it that low since he got diabetes. 50 and he is eating Cat Chow.

I don't understand and worried about it being that low.

 

No insulin correct?

Normal non-diabetic BG numbers 40-130 on human glucometer. 80-160 on pet specific monitor like alphatrak.

You only need to worry about a number that low if your cat is getting insulin.

 

No Insulin.

Thank you. I am just surprised it is that low and him eating cat chow.

 

I hate to keep on posting.

Catee was laying in his bed sleeping and all of sudden his stomach started jumping. Like when he is going to throw up but this time is was extremely bad.
It kept doing for a few seconds and he finally woke up and gag like he was going to vomit but nothing come out.

He then could not stand up. Was falling around and could not walk right.
The whole thing was probably 2-3 minutes.

He then just laid down and went back sleep.

I've never seen him do this way.

 

Furball? Bad dream? Seizures? Just keep an eye on him..

You might want to discuss all this with your vet..

 

He had just ate about 15 minutes before. He swallowed his food whole and did not chew it up.

I was wondering if it was seizure.

I'll keep watch on him.

 

How is he doing??

 

Hi. Catee is doing well. Been testing him twice a day. BG ranges from high 60s to low 100s. One day I did get a 136 and that is the highest so far. Today he had a low reading of 48 and that is the lowest so far.

He is eating well. Still eating Cat Chow and Young Again. I am trying my best to transition him over to Young Again but he really does not eat enough of it so I put out the Cat Chow.
4 ozs of Cat Chow and 1-2 ozs of Young Again.

Drinks a good bit of water still and urinates a big clump. Not like before he was diagnosed but still larger than I think it should be.

He is getting back to his old self. I can definately tell he feels much better. Still does not act exactly the same as before Vet trip.
Today was not a good day, not eating much.

Debating on weather I should take him to another Vet for a checkup or just keep a watch on him.

 

His BG levels are within normal cat range so he is officially in remission now. But he still sounds like there is a problem. I would take him to the vet and discuss kidney issues to start with.

Wendy

 

Hyperthyroid can also cause P/U (polyuria). I'm with Wendy. Sounds like something else is going on.

 

Would those issues had shown in the original bloodwork? I need to call and get a copy of it.

I am so happy his BG is down. This morning I took it and it was 39 on Relion meter. I borrowed my mother's accu check aviva meter and it was 61 on it. I took it a few minutes after the Relion test.

How reliable is Relion meter? Concerned with such a big difference in numbers.

 

Thanks so much. Just took it on the Accu Chek Aviva and it was 89 did not try on Relion. He is getting a little tired of being a pin cushion to check meters

Well I know when I first took him the Vet said it could be his kidneys, thyroid, or diabetes. So I assume he did a thyroid panel. I'll have to get the blood test.

I firmly believe that the Friskies Rise and Shine dry food accelerated his diabetes. Since he has not been eating it and has only been eating a combo of Cat Chow Indoor and Young Again his BG levels have stayed low.

 

I thought I would just keep my questions in my thread instead of making a new post.

I really want to get Catee switched over to Young Again. He is eating about 2ozs Cat Chow Indoor and 2ozs Young Again. He was eating 4ozs Cat Chow but has cut down to the 2 ozs the past 3-4 days.
I keep the foods in separate bowels and he eats out of them when he wants.

I've looked on Google and having a hard time finding a transition chart. I know this is dry food but does anyone has suggestions on getting him over to Young Again?
I put 8 ozs of Cat Chow in the bowel. I know it is wasteful but he wants to see a full bowel even though he does not eat it.
Should I put 2 ozs Young Again to 6 ozs Cat Chow and leave the bowel of Young again out also?

Would appreciate any help

 

Just mix them in 1 bowl and each day, switch out some.

Ex
Day 1 - take out 25% old; add 25% tablesppon new
Day 2 - take out 5o% old; add 50% tablesppon new
Day 3 - take out 75% old; add 75% tablesppon new
Day 4 - 100% new food.

Observe litterbox for signs of GI upset
If any seen, back up a step and hold a day or so before changing some more.