Newbie Seeking Advice

Hello all!

My kitty was diagnosed with diabetes shortly after I rescued him about 2 years ago. I bought an alpha track monitor to keep up with his levels but sometimes I have to poke his ear multiple times in the same spot to draw enough blood. The vet wants me to bring him in each time to double check his levels but it is very costly. I would like to be able to check and lower/raise doses at home if I could. He has been eating sensitive stomach dry hills science diet as suggested by the vet. He gets diarrhea very easily so it's hard to find food. The vet has also discouraged me from buying insulin and needles from outside the vet saying it will cost more. Not sure if this is true but if I could find a cheaper source that would be great!

Overall, I haven't had the best experience with my vet after being told different things. I was sent home with needles that were a little different than what I was using before and found out from the internet that the dosing was completely different for those needles and I had been giving him only half of what he needed! Maybe it is time to change vets after reading he should be on wet when they told me to feed him dry. I know it's been a while but I'm feeling hopeless about getting help for my cat especially now that I've become so attached.

 

There is lots of support on here. I had a bad experience with my vet and went it on my own with the support of the people on here. Share what type of insulin. Dosage and I use a spreadsheet to track Charlies progress.

 

Welcome to the FDMB!!....this truly is the best place you never wanted to be!

We hear horror stories all the time about vets here, but you're in the right place now. The people here have years of real life experience in dealing with this disease as well as the time to stay up to date on treatments (something most vets don't have the time or interest to do)

We can also help you stretch a nickel into a dollar! We use human meters like the Relion Confirm or Micro from WalMart (if you live in the US) ...they take the tiniest sample size and the strips are affordable ($36/100)

We know the best places to buy insulin too, but it sounds like you may have problems getting a script from your vet...may be time to find a new one if he refuses (although they are supposed to give you a written script if you ask). Where to buy it will depend on which insulin you're using.

My own cat hasn't been back to the vet for her diabetes since we got our script for Lantus insulin.....the people here live and breathe this disease and know more than the vast majority of vets do. Most vets may see a handful of diabetic cats in their entire career.

The "Prescription" foods aren't necessary and are too high in carbs for a diabetic cat (they also have lousy ingredients) Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies pates or 9-Lives ground

First, a few questions though:

What's your kitty's name? I'm guessing that your name is Crystal? Where do you live? Which insulin are you using currently?

 

Thank you for the warm welcome!

My cats name is Leo and we live in Tallahassee Florida. He is currently on Vetsulin, 5 units twice daily.

I'm very relieved to hear that it doesn't have to be expensive...A little backstory: I rescued him from a neighborhood and he seemed healthy, he wasn't overweight or anything. It wasn't but about 2 or 3 months later that he started losing so much weight and quick. He had completely liquid diarrhea and nothing seemed to help. The vet told me he had diabetes and I got a little emotional realizing I might not be able to afford or even handle taking care of a sick cat. (I was just looking for a new companion after my beloved baby was tragically run over.)

I asked them if they knew anybody that would adopt him and care for him and they contacted an organization that offered to pay for his medicine as long as they had funds. I was very grateful for this but eventually had to come up with money on my own after they could no longer help.

The vet has given me very little information on how to keep up with his glucose levels and has sent me home with about 4 different types of syringes. I'm going to try and take him to a different vet in the morning because I can tell he isn't feeling well even now. He sleeps a lot and seems like he never has energy.

Since he's been diagnosed, the frequent urination and excessive thirst haven't gotten better it seems.

 

5U is a pretty huge dose!! He's probably still alive because of the high carb food you've been feeding!

Vetsulin isn't one of the better insulins for cats...it's used much more successfully in dogs (and a lot of vets tend to treat their cats like small dogs so they use the same insulin)...it tends to take them down fast and then wear off before it's time for the next shot. Now we have had a few people who'd had success with it, but the better choices are Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc.

Call around to other vets in your area and tell them you'd like to talk to the vet about how they treat their diabetic cats (don't expect them to call until after office hours though)....Find out what kind of insulin is their "go to" to start with. Are they willing to change if the patient doesn't seem to do well on that insulin? If they don't mention it, you bring up that you've been doing some research and you'd like to know how they feel about using Lantus or Levemir.....if you can find a vet that's willing to work with you instead of dictate TO you, that's the best you can do

Find out what kinds of food they suggest for their diabetic cats....Most are going to try to sell you some of that garbage Hiils prescription diet junk so they can name a few more moneys off of you

If you can get a script for Lantus, you can mail, fax, or even just take a picture of your script to send to Marks Marine Pharmacy in British Columbia....Here's the Information on buying insulin in Canada.....a 5 pack of Lantus pens is $149.99 plus $25 and will last most cats at least 2 years,

 

Update your signature with all of your cat's info and start a spreadsheet. The people here are awesome and will get your kitty feeling better soon! Good luck with everything!

 

Welcome, Crystal! Chris has given you great info and we can certainly help you to help your kitty. Make a list of questions and post here. We'll try to answer them. No question is a stupid question.

 

Thank you everyone.

I have messaged a different vet about food and insulin choices and I'm waiting to hear back. Meanwhile I had to get more Vetsulin and syringes because he is almost completely out.

I just checked his glucose at 9:37 and it said 288. He usually gets his injections at 11. I had to prick his ear 3 different times to get enough blood.

I wanted to go ahead and try some fancy feast food but I'm worried it will give him diarrhea like he had 2 years ago.

The vet just responded as I was typing this (that was quick.)

"We do have alternatives however not all are compatible with each cat and since you have started Vetsulin best to speak with one of our vets on another choice. We like purina DM dry and canned. Best to find the lowest carb diet for your pet. Please call any time and we can schedule an appointment for you to speak with a vet if needed."

Maybe I should switch to this vet?

 

Try to slowly blend ind more Fancy Feast to his normal food so he won't notice as much and it will give his stomach time to adjust.

Purina DM is too high in carbs and you should try to do wet only if possible. I finally got my cat on wet food but it took 2-3 weeks. My vet also recommended the dry DM and it is about 18% carbs. You want to stay at 10% or less but preferably 5-7% is even better and shows the best success in getting a cat in remission.

 

Hi, welcome to FDMB is really a great place.

Regarding the testing if you try warming up his ear before poking him it helps a lot, what I do is I warm a small piece of wet cloth in the microwave, and I put it in a plastic bag, then I press his ear against it for a few moments (usually what it takes for the metter to beep signaling that is ready) and then poke.

 

Are you testing in the right spot?


Do you massage it first?

 

I have a feeling this was probably a vet tech calling, not an actual vet.....why would a vet tell you to "speak with one of our vets"?......When calling new places, it's important to ask for the VET to call you back and that you understand it may be after hours before they have time. Also, why would a vet tell you to "Please call any time and we can schedule an appointment for you to speak with a vet if needed."...if it was an actual vet that spoke to you, I'd think they'd say something like "We'd be happy to see your cat if you'd like to make an appointment"


At least this one seems open to other choices....might be worth a call back and just say something like "I've been doing some research that says Lantus (or Levemir or ProZinc....pick one) seems to be a good insulin for cats.. Is that one you are familiar with"?

Of course they do....they make a tidy little profit selling that stuff, but the dry is too high in carbs and the wet, while better than dry, is too expensive considering the ingredients they use. There's nothing special about prescription food except the price. Here's a good article on the truth about "prescription" foods . If you want to pay that much for cat food, there are MUCH better choices, but if you're like most of us, affordability comes into the picture too.

Here's a FOOD CHART made up by a veterinarian that specializes in feline nutrition. Anything under 10% carbs is fine....Price is up to you

Now this I agree with mostly!!! As long as it's under 10%, it doesn't need to be the lowest....some cats do better with a few carbs versus zero carbs

 

Quick update: Sorry for the confusion, when I said vet I just meant the vets office, not the actual doctor. :/

I checked his blood glucose right before injection time and it was 288, then again before his second one and it was 368.

Have any of you ever adjusted his dose at home according to your home monitor without consulting with your vet? My biggest issue right now is that since he's been so hard to regulate, they want me to bring him in every couple of weeks or so but I really can't afford it. I have to get financial help with the insulin and needles right now as it is.

Also; I picked up some fancy feast on the way home from work and mixed a little into his dry food.

 

China hasn't seen a vet for her diabetes since we first got our script for Lantus.....the people here have a lot of real life experience and if you post daily, they can help guide you.

You will want to get your Signature set up and start keeping track of your test results on our spreadsheet though. We really depend on seeing that spreadsheet before making any suggestions on changing dose

Here are Instructions on setting up the FDMB spreadsheet...if you have problems, feel free to contact me and I can set it up for you. Just click on my name and choose "Start Conversation" to send a private message.

To fill out your Signature, go to the top right and click on your sign on name....a drop down menu will come up ....choose "Signature". A new box will pop up for you to enter information like:

Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, any other health problems? and a general location. Click "save" and you're done! When you get your spreadsheet link, you'd add that to your signature too. Having the signature filled out keeps us from having to ask the same questions over and over again

 

Good job getting those tests in. Once I started testing at home frequently I didn't bring my cat physically into the vet office again. I just emailed her the spreadsheet and she told me what she thought. Sometimes she would give me dosing suggestions.... Sometimes I would tell her my strategy and she'd say sounds good. Once I got good at adjusting dosing myself it was really just to show her how well my cat was doing.


Stay low, 1 or 2 units, get lots of readings both preshot and mid cycle, and then we can give you more advice on how we would suggest you dose.

 

I have never consulted my vet for a dose change. I started with diabetic cats over 15 years ago. Imhave had about 17 diabetic cats so far

 

We come to FDMB to learn as much as we can to be able to treat our kitty at home. That includes BG testing, deciding on insulin dose, even deciding when a different insulin might be needed. Many of us don't consult the vet about the diabetes treatment at all - maybe a casual conversation when we take kitty there for some other reason. You can do this - and save a lot of money!

 

I adjusted Babu's dose at home all the time with the help of some very very nice people here, I just spoke with the vet once in a while and the conversations went something like "How is he doing? Ok How are his numbers? More o less ok" until I just called him and told him Babu was OTJ, he deals with Babu's other issues though and is a pretty good vet (not very knowledgeable about diabetes though)

Babu was a really hard kitty to regulate a diver and a bouncer till the last shoot of insulin so taking him to the vet wouldn't really help much since the sample they would take could be a dive or in the middle of a bounce, which made it not very representative plus Babu would get seriously stressed ( He measured up to 150 more at the vet once) all of that made my results at home much more reliable since they were taken every day and I had in the SS all the history

 

Hi Crystal!
Leo is beautiful!

First, you are doing a good job! Figuring out how to get here and that you should test at home is sometimes a big jump for cat parents. Then to realize you don't really trust the advice your vet is giving... that's a bit terrifying.
But you made it here, and you have a meter.
5 units is crazy high to me, and like others said, your high carb food may be compensating. So before any changes are made to dosing and food, make sure you get really good at home testing. JanetNJ who commented above with the ear diagram - she has a video in her signature that includes the best tips on testing and she shows you how she does it. I do ours like she showed in her video and we never have any issue.
Since you mentioned cost, your meter is a great meter, but the test strips are very expensive. I use the human meter, ReliOn Prime from Walmart. (Meter was $15) and the test strips cost 1/4 of the price of yours. It might be worth it to change to a cheaper meter.
About switching vet's. With a diabetic cat I interview the vet before I go because initial consultations are expensive and I don't need to drag my kitty everywhere just to find a good fit, now that I know info from this board. My biggest concern is are they going to be a partner in how I choose to care for Fabby, or are they a micromanager? I ask if they have experience with many diabetic cats (they always say yes, but I ask in case they go into details). I ask if they are supportive of home glucose testing. (The only right answer here is yes. Bonus points if they add a statement like, "that's preferable because we don't get accurate numbers here at the vet due to stress".) I don't ask about recommended diet because I've learned what I need from Dr. Lisa's list, and don't need help finding low carb food. I also don't ask about insulin brand. There are many of us here on Vetsulin. The point of insulin is management. With your vet bumping yours up so high and without food therapy, well, I can't imagine any insulin works well under that kind of care.

I'm not any sort of diabetes expert here, as I've only got 2 months of being here, so maybe someone with more experience can chime in... but I have not read anywhere that diarrhea is a symptom of diabetes.
That tells me a few things, but the biggest one is you currently seem to have it managed by food. Perhaps whatever it was ran it's course and wouldn't come back by changing to a better food? The prescription foods are crap, filled with crap ingredients. Read the label. They are pretty horrible (I've got 2 on prescription food for other issues as I say this...) and I understand your hesitation in making other issues worse for Leo. If the diarrhea does come back as you are slowly transitioning to a low carb food you can definitely ask questions here, but having a good relationship with a new vet would come in very handy.

So again, you're doing good! Hang in there! Check out what other people's spreadsheets look like and get yours set up. Come on over to the Vetsulin page and the good folks there can help better with changing the dose and how that specific insulin works once you have some info available on your spreadsheet.

And because diet change may make a big difference in glucose and the insulin make sure you have read through the info on kitties going hypo just in case you should ever need it. (I hope not, but it's better to be prepared.)

Welcome!

 

Wow...I have a LOT to learn.

Here I was under the impression that a "curve" could only be done at a vets office. Thank you all for the helpful information. I am getting more comfortable with checking his blood glucose but will need to invest in more test strips soon to check every 2 hours.

I'm about to take a look at the spreadsheet on my laptop and see if I can figure it out.

My most recent check about 15 mins ago was 131 which would be 6 hours after his first injection for the day. No major changes in stool since feeding him FF last night (yet.)

Will continue to update once I get this spreadsheet figured out.

 

Oh and would anyone happen to know if it's possible to change my name to include Leo? Thanks

 

After first curve sent to a Vet and she wanted to increase by a whole unit, I've never consulted a Vet again for a dose change. Even with finding a new Vet, she knows I'm working his doses and will just let her know where we're at . If I'm on the fence about a dose, I'll post here .

What kind of Fancy Feast?

Top right should have 3 sections, Your username, Inbox, and Alerts. Click your username, then drop down window opens, click Personal settings. Takes you to another page. Left column at the bottom has an option "Change username"

 

Thank you!

I have to say I have had a much more pleasant experience here then on the Facebook groups lol. The FF I picked up was ocean whitefish & tuna.

 

What kind of... cut? lol. FF comes in Classics, Chunky, Flaked, Grilled, etc? Actually, here's the link for the Food chart most of us use . Ideally you want to stick with foods that are Less than 10% carbs: http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

Edit: I see your using an AT2 meter. Just letting you know the SS you setup is for a human meter. Your "take action" number / dark green range should be 68-99. Lime green <68.

 

I know the answer to that one... it's a pate.
It's on Lisa's list as under 5 carbs. Fabby gets that flavor.
We rotate Chicken Dinner pate, Ocean Whitefish & Tuna, Chicken & Liver Dinner, and Salmon Dinner.
Fabby doesn't like the chunky ones, so pate works well. (Though she would love the gravy, but can't because:carbs lol. So I just add water to the pates to make them gravy-ish, lol.)

 

Ocean Whitefish and Tuna also comes in Grilled, Gravy lovers, and Medleys Florentine . Classics and Medleys Florentine are the low carb versions. Grilled and Gravy lovers are medium carb

 

Okay, well I thought I knew that answer. Grrrr why they gotta go making the same flavors all high carb...
Thanks as always for your experience!!!

 

To confuse us .

 

Whoops, I'll have to fix my spreadsheet when I get home from work. Leo's BG has been high despite changing to FF.

 

You have to be patient it will take a few days on his new diet for you to see results, but since you are giving him insulin you should monitor him closely just in case his numbers start getting better (maybe not perfect) with the new food.

 

Like Veronica said, diet change can still take a few days to see impacts on his BG. I left a post for you above to clarify what "cut" of the FF flavour you purchased is. Only 2 out of 4 "cuts" are low carb

 

Hey I don't know if anyone is awake right now but I just checked his BG and it was 45! I'm freaking out right now just called the animal hospital and put some syrup on his gums. Not sure what else to do?!

 

Okay first, make a new post in the regular forum and use the exclamation point where you put the title to get help fast.
Also you're using the AT2. I'm not familiar, but isn't the hypo numbers lower for that meter?

 

How is Leo?

 

Please let us know how you and Leo are doing. We worry about all the kitties here.

 

I was about to go to bed so I turned off the lights and he meowed. He doesn't like when it's dark so I turned my flash on and I noticed him panting. I thought that was weird so I checked his BG just out of curiousity and was shocked to see it was 45. He was sprawled out on my hardwood floor breathing heavily.

I ended up taking him to the emergency room after giving him syrup, then checking it again and it went down even more--to 40. I was extremely worried as I have never been in this situation before. By the time we got to the vet his blood sugar had went up into the 50's.

They gave me an estimate of over $800 for blood work and other tests which I definitely couldn't afford. I gave them a budget and we worked around it and decided on just giving him higher carb food (temporarily) and they also gave him fluids.

We had a long night but we're home now and all is good. He did have some pretty bad diarrhea on the car ride there, not sure if it's from stress, the food, or maybe both? Hope that mess doesn't return!

I will be giving him a lower dose of insulin now and continue to check his BG. In the past couple days I have used all of my test strips for the AT2 so I now have the ReliOn Prime from Walmart.

 

I am so glad you and Leo are okay.

 

Glad you're both okay. I used the Relion Prime at first but changed to the Relion Confirm because it requires a blood drop half the size of the Prime. If you have problems getting Leo's test, try switching meters to one with a tiny drop size.

 

Thank you! I just tried it out for the first time and it read 37. He isn't showing any symptoms of hypoglycemia but I'm still a little concerned. What is the normal range on a ReliOn Prime?

 

37 is pretty low he may be going into hypo. Your spreadsheet is not current so I'm not sure if you gave him a shot and how much insulin. Make sure to monitor him and possibly give him food to slow the insulin. You want to stay between 50-120 on a human meter like the Relion Prime.

You can test him again and make sure it wasn't a bad strip. Did he just eat or get a insulin shot?

@Yong @Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom @JanetNJ Are experienced and will be able to help.

 

I don't have any real experience with Vetsulin (we use Lantus) but I'd retest now......37 is too low on a human meter....if they drop below 50 on a human meter, that's your "time to act".....the Gravy Lovers Fancy Feasts are high carb and you should always have a few in the house in cases of hypos.

If you pop the top, put it back down and "squeeze" the gravy into another bowl, you can maximize the effect since the gravy has most of the carbs. If he drops below 50, feed a couple teaspoons of the gravy and test again in 20 minutes or so to make sure he's coming up.

Is he off the dry food completely yet?

If he dropped that low, I'd strongly suggest dropping his dose to maybe 2.5 and get at least 4 tests per day in (more is better).....how he reacts will dictate if he needs more or less. Please try to keep your spreadsheet updated too....we really depend on those to see what's going on

 

I tested again and it was 140 after letting him eat some HSD dry (his old food.) He isn't completely off of that food, still transitioning. I updated my spreadsheet to fit the new meter--not sure how to convert old spreadsheet into new.

 

That 37 you got today is a sure sign that a dose of 4 units is too high. Please post here for help before deciding on his evening dose tonight.

 

And stresses the importance of getting PS tests (preshot tests). You'll want to make sure he hasn't eaten for 2 hours prior to PS time. Your SS is setup for a human meter so you're ok there . How long until PMPS?

 

I just checked PMPS and it's 50. I'm going to take your advice and try 2.5 and see what happens.

 

Wait no no no. If his PS number is 50 DO NOT GIVE INSULIN!

 

Okay...no insulin. Should I check again in the morning?

 

You can still do a before bed test to see how he's doing on his own. A cat's normal BG range on a human meter is 50 - 120 so as a new member you would not give insulin if his PS test is below 200.

 

Got it! Thanks for the quick response, I was about to give him insulin if I didn't hear anything. I love this forum but I wish we had some type "instant" messaging for emergencies lol.

 

We have a "no shot" limit of 200....until you have enough data and experience, so definitely no insulin tonight!!

Don't be surprised if he's sky high by morning, but don't let that scare you....I would definitely not give more than 2.5 tomorrow

Test at Pre-shot and again 2-3 hours later (if you can)....that will help to let you know how quickly he's dropping and when you should test again

 

For urgent questions there are 2 ways to handle it. One is start a new thread and ask a new question. (If there's an emergency, like a hypo issue, definitely start a new thread and use the prefix 911.)
The other option is this site shows you which members are on at any time. You can click on then and send a message, but this may be counter-productive of all that's on is new people. But if you recognize any user names, reach out.
And a third option is tag people in your thread. Just put the @ symbol before going their name and it will send a notification. (If everyone's sleep this might still take a bit... But there's usually someone on.)

Did you already read through what to look for when a kitty goes hypo, and what actions to take? There's a whole list posted in here. It would be good to read through that just in case. (I know you already had this happen once, but better to be prepared.)
Also just to give you a gauge. My non-diabetic cat tested at 50, so definitely no insulin needed. I'm so glad Yong caught you before you shot! Phew!
If you do any more tests tonight please post your results. I'll try to check in through the night randomly. Have the gravy and carbs ready tonight, just in case.

 

Without insulin tonight he shouldn't hypo. On the other note, if you test later and he is going higher, do not administer insulin off schedule. Wait until you get his AMPS with no food eaten 2 hours prior. Post here if you are unsure =)

 

I think your AMPS is soon, within the hour, and I see he bounced at your +2 which is not unexpected. As long as he's above 220 (slightly increasing since I might not be back until later), you could try the previously suggested dose of 2.5U. If you won't be home to check him due to working, then I might suggest only giving 2.0U. We'd rather have him a little higher while you're gone than too low for a second. Especially after 2 Hypo's.

Interesting SS colours now kind of threw my focus lol. Since you seem to be able to navigate the SS, think you could try to put in the AT2 data above the ReliOn and separate them? Might be nice to have all the data viewable .

 

Okay for his AMPS it was 410 just now. I do have to work and will be gone from 2:30-10:30 p.m. Should I stick with 2 Units then?

 

@Yong are you available for dosing advice?
Perhaps, @JanetNJ or @MrWorfMen's Mom could help with where Crystal goes from here?

 

I went with your suggestion and gave him 2 Units since I won't be home for the rest of the day. LOL about the SS...I stayed up until 4 am, obviously I have no life. If it's too much I'll just reset it. And I'll definitely work on putting the old into the new tonight! Hehe

 

Hi Crystal and Leo!

If you are around for a few hours before heading off to work, test Leo at +1.5 to +2 post shot or at least before heading out and see where his BG is. That 410 this morning is no doubt at least in part due to a bounce from those lows yesterday and that can make kitty a bit more sensitive to insulin for a cycle or two. Bounces can take up to 6 cycles (each cycle is 12 hours) to clear but some kitties clear them faster some slower. I'm so glad you reduced the dose and I think the 2u will be fine. If Leo is dropping a lot as of +2, (or when you grab that test before work) then feed him a bit more food and leave some food out for him to have while you are at work. Post here if you have any questions.

At night, if you can grab another test before bed, if you get up for a "visit" in the night, or even earlier in the AM before the pre-shot, it will really help to fill in pieces of the puzzle and help figure out how best to help Leo and get his BG under better control.

 

2 is definitely a better dose.

 

Okay everyone, I gave him 2 Units 3 hours ago and his BG now reads 160. I have updated his chart to show the previous numbers with the AlphaTrak 2. I just want to know before I leave for work do you think he will be okay for the rest of the day?
@JanetNJ @MrWorfMen's Mom @AlphaCat @Yong

 

Yes

 

You are probably at work by now but did you leave him a snack like Linda suggested? Sorry I had to leave for a few hours.

 

While I'm sure Leo is fine now, I am not convinced that reducing the dose even further to say 1.5u for a few cycles wouldn't stop some of the bouncing. That is a big drop, far more than 50% in 4 hours from 410 to 160 and that will likely set off another high pre-shot. I find it's better in the early days to ease the BG down and get kitty more used to lower numbers and not riding a roller coaster of dramatic ups and downs.

 

Looks like I won't be giving him insulin again tonight. After several painful attempts I finally got enough blood and it read 191. I didn't hear back from anyone in time earlier so I did leave a little food down for him just to be on the safe side. Unless anyone suggests otherwise he won't be getting insulin tonight though. I will try to test in a couple hours if I'm still awake.

 

Good call.
Expect to be high again in the morning. Bouncing is difficult. It just means the dose isn't quite right yet.
The testing does get easier the more you do it. (The treats help too, Fabby would let me do anything for treats.)
Slow and steady wins this race.

 

Interestingly low pre-shot last night. Great to see but unexpected and I'm glad you decided to skip the shot. It's unusual for Vetsulin to last the full 12 hours but it does happen. I'm wondering if that lower pre-shot is indicative that the transition to FF is helping the numbers come down. What ratio of FF to Hills Science Sensitive are you feeding now?

I think I'd reduce the dose to 1.5u even with a pre-shot over 200 and monitor closely to see how that works for Leo.

 

I agree with Linda to reduce the dose to 1.5U as long as BG is over 200. We won't have you administer insulin under 200 this early in the dance

 

Wow, I don't know whats going on here or if this is normal but his BG is 68 right now for pre-shot. Is this good or bad?

 

I'm off today so I will be able to test throughout the day--after I buy a new BG monitor because this one is driving us both mad with the amount of blood it needs!

 

68 is a NORMAL BG number for a cat and a really good normal number! Is that without food for at least 2 hours? Definitely no shot right now! I wouldn't bother getting another glucometer until you see what is going on here. Looks like Leo may have other plans than to have you poking and stabbing him with pointy objects!

ETA I just remembered you skipped the shot last night which makes that 68 an even better surprising number.

 

He hadn't been fed for 12 hours when I took that reading. I am supposed to feed him only every 12 hours right? I was letting him eat whenever he wanted with the HSD dry and just left the bowl down for him before so he does get hungry in-between now.

To answer your question earlier he has been eating strictly FF classics for the past 2 days--nothing else.

I have one more lancet left so I was going to run to the store and pick up either the ReliOn Confirm or Micro since that seems to be a better choice.

 

I thought you were on 10:00 / 22:00 schedule? Either way 68 is a very nice PS number with no insulin last night and definitely none today. Most kitties don't do well with twice a day feedings so many feed multiple times a day and stop 2 hours prior to pre-shot test time. I call it a 20/7 buffet (instead of 24/7, taking away 2 hours for each cycle ). New diet is looking very promising!

Confirm/Micro take the same strips it's just he meter size is different. Make sure to pick up test strips for new meter as they do not use Prime strips.

 

Ok believe it or not, you MAY have a diet controllable diabetic cat and that is wonderful news. I am crossing all fingers, toes and all available paws here that Leo keeps pumping out low numbers for you.

You do not need to feed Leo only twice daily, Most of us feed 4 or 6 times per day with a larger portion of food with insulin and smaller snacks in between. Some even free feed. With that number being 12 hours post food, Leo is in great shape!

 

Should I be feeding him the same FF Classic stuff multiple times a day? And the others don't take less blood to work? I had better luck with the AlphaTRAK because all you need is a little on the side but I checked on Amazon and the strips are nearly a dollar per strip!

I can't even begin to express how happy the sound of that makes me...You know it's crazy to me that in the few days I have been here I have learned more about this disease then the vet has ever told me in two years time. I can't believe I went this long without testing at home. The vet never once mentioned it or even suggested a low carb diet. Leo has probably been through hell.

 

Any Low Carb foods. My boy doesn't like eating the same flavour multiple times a day so I rotate . The ReliOn Confirm/Micro take less blood than the Prime. They're listed as needing 0.3µl like AT2. I think they take a teeny bit more but it's still less than the Prime, which needs 0.5µl. Yes, unfortunately, AT2 strips are expensive. That's why I just use mine for curves

Don't be too hard on yourself . Vet's receive like 5 hours of training for FD and like an hour or two of nutrition from the big food companies. They're expected to know a little about everything and like human doctors, it's why we have specialists . The important thing is if your Vet is supportive . Leo will forgive you, all he see's is you were trying to help him with what you were told

 

And to think your vet prescribed 5units twice daily...
I hope wonderful things and Leo is able to be controlled through diet only!

One other thing to consider:
I brought my cat Tristan in to the vet because he was showing urinary issue symptoms. (I'm hyper aware because I had a previous cat with crystals just the year before.) They ran some tests and said he had a UTI but they were more concerned with his glucose numbers being over a thousand. They sent me home with literature on diabetes and scheduled a recheck on Monday. They were convinced he was diabetic. I was skeptical and wanted to hold off until we got the urinary issue under control. If I hadn't had experience in the urinary realm they would have sent me home with insulin. Tristan isn't diabetic at all. After we cleared his UTI his glucose numbers went back to normal.
It makes me wonder if while at the vet Leo presented with some sort of infection that along with the stress of the visit spiked his glucose and then the vet over prescribed insulin which caused Leo's body to respond and bounce.

Either way, it's really good you started home testing!

 

You'd be blown away by how many folks end up here in exactly the same situation....too much insulin and not making any progress. Admittedly, not many immediately show signs of remission but there have been some and we've had other cats that were diet controlled too. Vets just don't get enough training on diabetes and many treat cats as if they were dogs and that just doesn't work. You've got this under control now so no matter what happens, as long as you hold the reins, you can do what you feel is best for Leo.

Just keep Leo on the low carb food. FF is fine but there are lots of other brands too if he'd like a bit more variety.

While I don't normally suggest this, as an interim measure, since it appears possible you won't be doing any intensive testing for long, you could just buy a vial of strips for the Freestyle Lite meters to use in the AT2 meter. They cost more than the Prime strips but about half of what the AT@ meter strips cost. They are the same strips but they have not been batch tested to determine the code to use in the AT2 meter. You just leave your AT2 meter on the current cat code. The results will be within the ballpark of what the AT2 would read with the batch tested strips. It's up to you but I'm not sure it's worth purchasing another meter right now until you see what Leo has up his sleeve.

 

Fabby lost a lot of weight before we got her diagnosed with diabetes, so I break her total calories per day into 4 meals (when possible). She just won't eat enough of a can of FF to feed only 2x a day. I can only free feed her if I have her completely quarantined so instead I aim for 4 times per day and she can have visitors.
Others mix a little water with the FF and freeze it so they can set it out when they go to work and the kitty gets to eat it once it's sufficiently thawed. Several kitties are able to use food available to regulate their diabetes throughout the day, which means less insulin needed to keep them managed.

 

I just came home with the ReliOn Micro before reading your response but I already like this one much more. I checked his BG as soon as I set it up and unfortunately it has went back up to 323. I got a couple more flavors of the Classic FF while I was at the store since I didn't have the list of other low carb foods on me and he gobbled up half a can before I just tested.

On a more positive note--no diarrhea since the complete transition to FF except on the car ride to the ER , which could've been caused by stress.

 

Well that 323 is indeed a surprise. I wonder if the Prime meter reads even with an insufficient blood sample?! Or maybe the battery is getting low which can cause some odd and very off readings with some meters. Been victim to that scenario myself! And it happened on a new meter I was testing. If that is the case, then I suppose that 191 last night may be a bit suspect too. I assume there is no chance he got back into the high carb food?

Not to worry....we'll help you get back on course. I'd suggest you stick with the 2 units for now if his BG at pre-shot is 300 or above and 1u if BG is between 200 and 300 tonight and monitor Leo at +1.5 or +2 tonight to see how much he is dropping on that dose. I think you are on the same time as me (EST). What time do you do Leo's shots? I'll try to look in to see how things are going if our times are compatible.

It's still possible that the low carb canned diet is working its wonders because if I am understanding correctly, you are only on day 2 of the switch now. Sometime the full effect of lowering the carbs isn't evident for a few days to a week.

 

I was just about to ask you for dosing suggestions tonight! So far with the new meter the numbers have been pretty consistent (in the 300's.) It's nearly 2 hours before his PMPS and it's now 352...slowly going up. No high carb food unless there is a flavor of FF Classic that's high in carbs. He gets his insulin around 11.

 

Why not try 1 unit for tonight and tomorrow, numbers permitting. It's the usual starting dose for Vetsulin and you need some data for lower doses now that you know 5 u is far too high.

 

I like the idea of trying 1.0U for a little bit as well, numbers permitting

 

I agree. Numbers were relatively the same for PMPS so we're back at 1 unit to start for now. I will check back in with you all in the morning and we will go from there.

 

Sorry! I crashed early last night but I see you had some great help from Kris and Yong! I agree it was a good idea to stick with 1u and see how that works for Leo.

 

Good morning! Leo's AMPS this morning is 176 so he won't be getting any insulin again.

I hope that I can get him regulated soon because I'm going out of town next week for my birthday and I would hate for anything to happen while I'm gone. I have someone who can administer insulin but they have no experience checking BG.

 

Ok on that note, if he's over 200 tonight, I might suggest trying 0.5U . How many days will you be away?

 

Well wasn't that a welcome surprise! I'm thinking it might be worth taking the dose down to 0.5u to see if you can get him to where 2 shots a day is feasible and ease him on up from there if needed. He's all over the map right now and difficult to get a handle on.

Oh @Yong I see great minds think alike!

 

Sounds like a plan! 0.5U is just half a Unit right? I'll be gone for a whole 4 days.

Is it normal to go up so high during the day and drop down in the morning after not eating?

 

Correct . Let's see if we can stabilize him over the next couple days before you have to leave

 

For some unknown reason, many cats go lower at night even if they do have access to food....perhaps less stimulation, natural circadian rhythm....who knows. But if Leo has been without food for several hours as of the morning test, then yes that would cause a lower BG. So it looks like a true fasting BG for Leo is not that high....slightly above normal but not by much. Maybe to smooth things out a bit, you could leave a bit of food out overnight in case he needs it. Vetsulin causes an early drop in BG and then in some cats you will see a second dip later in the cycle but often it's so minor it's not really evident. Could be that with no food overnight, Leo is getting more of a drop than we are aware of as well as no food to push BG back up.
When are you leaving for your trip?

 

That makes sense...I'm leaving Sunday morning, the 23rd. I will need to gradually give insulin earlier and earlier until I get to 7 since the person watching him while I'm away has nearly the opposite schedule (gone from 7-5.) It's definitely hard to go anywhere with diabetic babies at home.

 

With Vetsulin you can back up each shot by 30 minutes, so an hour for each day.

 

Ok! Let's see how Leo does for the next few days and then we can discuss dosing while you are gone given that your sitter doesn't test. It's better to have Leo running a little high in your absence than risking too low. If you can grab tests around +2, +4 and +6 in his cycles randomly as well as pre-shots (not four tests every cycle) for the next few days, either in the day or evening or both, whatever works for you, it will give us a good view of what's going on and give us some data on which to make decisions to keep Leo safe while you are away.

It definitely is a bit more of a challenge getting away but it's doable. I thankfully have a friend who offered to learn how to care for my sugar when I had to head out of town. Something to think about for the future.

 

I'll get as many tests as I can this week on my days off. His BG was 400 for PMPS this evening and he got .5U.

Luck you! My only friends are animals lol. I looked into pet boarding but it's out of my budget.

 

Okay Leo's AMPS today was 347. Should I continue with the .5U?

 

Yes I'd continue the same 0.5u for now. The goal is to get Leo's cycles to smooth out a bit and that might put the mid cycle tests up a bit but also bring down the pre-shot numbers or in Leo's case, help us figure out those low pre-shots the last couple of days. This keeps bouncing to a minimum and makes it much easier to see exactly what any given dose is doing for him. Holding the same dose for about 3 days (six 12 hour cycles) allows for any existing bounce to clear. If his pre-shots go up then I'd re-evaluate the dose earlier, otherwise stay the course for the moment.

 

Just got home from work and his PMPS is 186 so I guess no insulin tonight again. These huge differences in BG levels are starting to confuse me. I did leave some food out before I left but he probably finished it off hours ago. Wonder if that might contribute to the lower reading tonight. :/

 

If you didn't feed him his meal yet you could stall for 20 minutes and retest. Otherwise go ahead and skip shot

 

What a guy! He's got me scratching my head because Vetsulin does not usually last the full 12 hours and yet he is getting low pre-shots and higher mid cycle numbers............somewhat backwards. Some of that could be lack of food for awhile but it still surprises me a bit since most of the drop usually happens in the first half of the cycle with Vetsulin and even without food I'd expect to see a rise in the last half. I'd definitely keep the dose low.....I shutter to think he was on 5u before.

How is Leo acting now? Is he more active than he was? Sleeping less? Less lethargic? Peeing any less? Less hungry? It's not just about numbers. General observations like this also speak volumes as to how kitty is doing.

 

Me too!