Newbie

was referred here from reddit ask a vet.

I have an 8 year old dsh. he's had diabetes for 3 years and epilepsy for 5. but the seizures didn't get bad until about 7 months ago.

I have him on 15mg of phenobarbital twice daily, and give him ProZinc (stupid expensive) 6u in the am 4u at night.

i took wilbur in for a glucose curve because he will not let me test his blood sugar. and believe me i know how, I'm diabetic and check mine twice a day minimum.

So the curve was done 2 months ago.

So there's my intro. it is so stressful having a 12 hour medicine window, my schedule sucks and i'm very diligent on making sure to NEVER miss a dose

however, on a few occasions he's tricked me. i thought he swallowed his pill, but i've found them laying near where i give them to him, so a couple times he's spit them out without me seeing.

hope these are the right meds. i'm so broke i can't afford it honestly. 120 for a bottle of prozinc that only lasts 40 days is expensive

 

Welcome to FDMB.

There are some ways to lower costs, such as doing your own home glucose testing with an inexpensive human glucometer.

Refrigerating the ProZinc on a stationary shelf may enable you to use it longer.

You may be able to use some of the ideas in my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools to help evaluate how your cat is doing.

You can switch to a lower cost, over the counter, low carb canned food to reduce the amount of insulin needed (that is a whopping high dose you are giving!), and possibly get your cat to a diet controlled status. This must be done very cautiously as it may lower the glucose levels 100-200mg/dL and reduce the insulin by 1-2 units per shot, based on reported experiences here.

 

well i definitely refrigerate the insulin. the cruddy part is did you know you can walk into walmart and buy insulin-r (humans, too fast to work for cats) for 24 bucks and don't need a prescription? yet I have to pay 120 per bottle (and i'm pretty sure that's a deal) and have to go to my vet to get it? on the good side, she gives me free name brand u40 needles so i'm not that bummed, but it bugs me it's 500% more cost to treat a cat with insulin than it would be to treat me

 

You can get an Rx and shop elsewhere; you don't have to get it from your vet. The lowest price I've seen mentioned was in the $100 range.

Come on over to the ProZinc group. the folks there are all using ProZinc or PZI, and can help give you feedback on managing your cat's diabetes optimally. Plus, we have a set of guidelines you can use as a reference, too.

 

I will visit there as soon as I return from errands thank you

 

Tara is also kind of scary when it comes to having her ears lanced, I routinely use a muzzle and a bag. As she's finally beginning to get used to it, I'm skipping the bag more and more, however Tara will bite, so we haven't skipped the muzzle just yet. The muzzle is just a velcro retained fabric cone which conforms to her head shape and covers her eyes and mouth, perhaps it's called a "grooming muzzle." It's not at all like the cones the veterinarians use after surgeries. The covering of the eyes seems really important, she can't see to bolt away and it has a calming effect on her.

 

Hi John, fellow ProZinc user here. I'm going to put my post on the ProZinc forum where we'll have more PZ user eyes to offer help and suggestions. Come on over....

 

Sounds good. i filled in my signature

 

A lot of vets will refuse to give out a prescription. Mine won't let me go elsewhere for Insulin. Needles, I can get at Walmart. There must be a sizable kickback on insulin, it's the only reason I can think of for him refusing to write an Rx for ProZinc. Perhaps down the road I can talk him into it..not sure. He didn't want me to use anything but urine test strips...and was a bit taken aback when I talked to him the next time, and said " To H3ll with urine testing, I need to know what's going on RIGHT NOW so I went out and bought a meter. I think he could tell I was prepared to fight him on this. Now if only I can sound forceful enough to insist on an Rx for ProZinc.

 

i'm shocked that vets would refuse to give out an rx? is that common? my vet doesn't do that, but i will admit, i sometimes don't know that they are giving wilbur enough attention. but who am i to judge how they do their job? if the results from their recommendations and medical care work, I think i should do what they say

 

About half the states have regulations that require a vet to issue a prescription if asked by the client. See:
http://www.zzcat.com/CRF/supplies/#Refuse

 

You go girl! You're the one paying the bill, he works for you, not the other way around. My vet sells me the insulin and other stuff at his cost. He's awesome.

 

i don't know for sure what to think. i think my vet is doing good for me. they're small. in a strip mall. but i pay 120 for a bottle of prozinc and the lady always gives me about 50 free name brand u40 needles.

since i also get phenobarbital, she buys them in 30mg pills then cuts them in half for me because she said it's cheaper for me that way. she charges me 13 dollars for 30 days worth

does that sound like she's taking care of me?

 

Ipay 135 dollars fir a 5 ml bottle of ProZinc. Iwill check about the law concerning Rx. This one won't even release a Rx for worm meds. And if I cite a law he will probably refuse to treat Dottie unless I agree. There are other vets but they are considerably far away. I think a hefty portion of his income comes from medications.

 

holy moly. that's twice what i'm paying. the bottles i buy are 40u or 10ml. are you sure yours are 5? i'll admit my vet seems very cognizant of financial issues. she told me she'd give me the best prices possible. but i am a little shocked you'd have to pay more thsan double

 

Ok tried to answer with my phone but it doesn't work well with this forum..difficult to get the text in. So I deleted a stilted post I just put in, and reposted.

What I have is a 5 ml bottle..just checked. The concentration of this compounded ProZinc is 100 u per ml. The vial was ordered from Wedgewood Pharmacy, and I can't remember if it came completely full up or not. I've been using it since Jan 9th. If it was full, that means I purchased 500 u of ProZinc for $135.

Addendum: Ok, the vet assured me that I had way more than I likely would use during a 2 month period. He started Dottie on 5u per day, and at 60 days/2 months, that would be 300 units..and he actually thought she'd take way more insulin than just 5 u per day...so this had to be full.

On a good note..Immediately after Dottie tanked on his recommended dosage I dropped back, restarted at .5u per day..and she's up to only 1.5 units, BID..total of 3u per day. So theoretically, if I were to ignore the 2 month expiration date suggested by the vet, Dottie could chug a long time on this 5ml vial.

 

What you have is NOT ProZinc. ProZinc is made by Boehringer Ingelheim Vetmedica, Inc and is a U40 insulin and only comes in 10 ml vials
https://www.prozinc.us/
What you have is Wedgewood Pharmacy U100 PZI (protomine zinc) insulin. Please do not call it ProZinc. What you say in your signature "Protamine Zinc Insulin 100 units/ml " is correct

 

Aha, thanks Larry. I wasn't sure..didn't understand the difference. Is ProZinc the 'brand name' of the original manufacturer? Can you fill me in as to what the difference is within the two, besides the fact that it's a U40..is it just more concentrated? I know that mine is a compounded insulin, put together in smaller batches, while the ProZinc is/was?..manufactured in large batches. (I had also heard that the company is going to stop making ProZinc..is that true?)

Or are there 'additives' in the ProZinc that make it different? Thanks for the link, btw...I had not done any more searching for ProZinc since I read that they're going to stop making the stuff. I will find that article for you asap.

Addendum: I just read on the ProZinc site that ProZinc is the only insulin approved for cats by the FDA.

Not impressed by the FDA ...for that matter, anything to do with government bodies..they can be 'bought out'..and conveniently ignore the testing requirements..sins of omission, by use of various excuses..they appear to bend to large corporations tendencies to rush things through testing, to get them on the market before they've been properly tested. This is why so many recalls (and litigation) on human drugs.

This was not meant as a challenge to your statement that the two insulins aren't the same. I just think that the FDA causes many, if not more, problems than it solves. And I still don't like it that some vets try to force their patients over to drugs that must be gotten through them. And that they're so blockheaded about home testing.

 

Another Addendum..I hate going back and editing one post over and over.

Thanks for the clarification, Larry. I found an old, interesting thread on ProZinc vs. PZI..and am including a link to that thread here. It pretty much answers all the questions I just asked you in my above post.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-vs-pzi.74912/

I will watch to make sure that the batch consistancy is reasonable, thanks to this article. My vet really wanted me to use Wedgewood's insulin, but I confess that sometimes the way he words things makes me think he's using me and my cats as guinea pigs to test out whether stuff works or not. "Here, try this and let me know what you think". Wish some new vets would open practice in our area.