Newly diagnosed 15 year old

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by BorisV, May 23, 2013.

  1. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    It's ok.

    If she doesn't come up, be prepared that I may send you to the ER. Do not panic. It would just be precautionary because we don't have any idea how she responds to food, she might not eat, and she still has the depot from a higher dose of insulin. Safety first.

    So don't be shocked or panicked if I tell you to go. Have hubby be sure you all know where it is.
     
  2. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Okay, well she licked some and now has gone into DEEP hiding. The ONLY way we can get her out is with a broom. I can't even get Karo into her......... what now.
     
  3. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Please do what you can to get her out. You might need to put her in a bathroom or somewhere she cannot hide until her numbers are up.

    As soon as you catch her, please do the karo and grab a test.
     
  4. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    How much Karo and how soon after to test?
     
  5. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    About 1/2 tsp...be careful so she doesn't bite you. See if she will lick it off your fingers first. Test her when you get her....I need to know how much she has dropped. Thanks,

    Did you catch her?
     
  6. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    going to do now
     
  7. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Ok...I'm here.
     
  8. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    for some reason my reply didn't go through .......gave her Karo- retested. She was at 73 at 11:19 EST. What now?
     
  9. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering ;-)

    Is it possible to get her to eat? If she will only eat her regular food with just a drop of karo, that's fine. And you can wait an hour to test but please keep her somewhere confined until I tell you she's up enough.

    Any kind of high carb food or syrup wears off in 1-2 hours so we have to stay vigilant.

    How you doing? Breaking into that ice cream yet ;-)
     
  10. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    we have her confined in a room with food. she is pretty wigged out - think we need to leave her alone for a bit - she is not an "eater" but there are THREE bowls of food in there with her -2 low carb, 1 gravy. should I dose all with Karo?
     
  11. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    No..just a bit in the LC food. And give her a break...love on her. But we do need a test in an hour from the last one, ok?
     
  12. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    okay - be back at 12:19 EST as last teat was 11:19
     
  13. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Perfect. See you then.
     
  14. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    THANK YOU!
     
  15. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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  16. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Marje, 15 minutes to go ---- I have a "what if......' She is locked in a room by herself right now with the food. Don't want to go in and disturb her -we did that as we have 2 cats and didn't want Boris to go in and eat / pester her. What if when we go in, she has NOT eaten? Then what? Would you want us to test even then? Or do the Karo syrup - please be specific with me as I am very tired. Also, we only have 2 lancets left and we will need one for the morning :smile:
     
  17. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Bernadette....do you have a 24 hour pharmacy? You need more than two lancets and if she's new to testing, I would not reuse them...the sharper the better. That's going to be a must.

    When you go in, if she has not eaten, test her. Sometimes low numbers will cause the liver to release hormones wh in bounce the BG up. If she is still below 80 and has not eaten, see if you can coax her to do so. If not, put another's 1/2 tsp of karo on her gums.

    So..test her first, then try and get her to eat. Perhaps hubby can post her number here before he leaves to get lancets.

    Sound like a plan?
     
  18. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Recap:
    PMPS :107 LC
    +1.5: 126
    +3: 63
    +3.75: 73
    +5: 122
     
  19. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Just tested - she had eaten a tiny bit of the Low Carb with a teeny but of Karo. Just tested at 122 - can we (especially Tashie) go to bed now, please . Tomorrow's instructions?
     
  20. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Marje - can you recommend a dose for tomorrow?
     
  21. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I know you are tired but the last test has to be a rising number with no food or karo for a couple hours. She is not even at mid cycle yet. She could come back down when the karo wears off.

    I'd like one more test....we could go 1.5 hours. Can you do it.... Please? :D

    Tomorrow...do not shoot if she is below 200, ok? If she is above 200 shoot 0.5u. If there is any way to get a +10 or +11 test which would be 5:30 or 6:30 a.m., you will know if she is still rising or coming back down.

    Ok...one more test? 1.5 hours? I will be here. If she's back down, you will have to test again.

    Did you get more lancets?
     
  22. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    We have lancets but I think I have to leave her be now. She really is starting to get very scared. Really, I am worried that we are prodding her too much. I will watch her for a bit and get up early and see how she's doing - seriously, I can tell if she is not okay. Can't do this anymore tonight - husband is seriously upset and he is the tester. I DO KNOW What you are saying - I will keep a CLOSE eye and post tomorrow. I will NOT shoot if she is below 200. If she is ABOVE, will give her 0.5U. Marje, she just can't take any more, trust me.
     
  23. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I trust you to know your cat. But I have to be upfront with you that not all cats show signs of low numbers.

    My own cat has been in the 20s acting absolutely normal. What concerns me about low numbers like that is we don't have them hooked up to any kind of equipment to see what the low glucose is doing to brain activity and brain cells.

    If you feel you absolutely cannot test anymore, then please leave her in the room with more HC and LC food. If you can get up and check to be sure she has eaten.

    It worries me but you hold the lancet....she is your cat.

    You have the correct information for tomorrow morning. If you have any questions, post. Someone will be around. You can always PM me as well and I'll pop in.
     
  24. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    I just wanted to jump in and say, "Great job with the all the testing tonight, folks!" :thumbup

    Is this your second or third day testing? Either way, baptism by fire! You guys did fantastic! It'll get easier with time and in the future, you won't have to worry about the additional stress of testing because testing won't be stressful anymore for either of you or Nataschia!

    Has anyone provided you with a link to the Secondary Monitoring Tools, yet? If not, it's worth a read-through because it gives some helpful hints when first starting out home-testing when either you and/or Kitty have had enough with the ear poking. ;-)
     
  25. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Those are great general, observational tools but I wouldn't use them to determine whether kitty is low.

    Thanks to everyone who cooperated tonight by watching so we didn't overwhelm Bernadette. Good job!

    Bernadette....you did really well. It gets easier.
     
  26. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    Yes, exactly. That's why we're such huge proponents of home testing around here and why they're secondary to BG monitoring. Don't worry, though. You'll soon discover a rhythm and routine that works best for you and Nataschia. Managing diabetes is often referred to as learning the "Sugar Dance" around here. You start our with two left feet and trying to lead when you should be following (or vis versa). But over time, as you start to learn the steps, you fall into synch and your dancing becomes a unique masterpiece drawn out on the dance floor by you and Nataschia.
     
  27. Jamie & Jupiter

    Jamie & Jupiter Well-Known Member

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    Mar 14, 2013
    Just wanted to say... you did a great job tonight!! Both Bernadette and Marje!! I was following the posts just watching and I must say - you did great testing!! And Marje you did amazing as always helping!

    Ya know,.. I too, at first, did not want to test Jupiter very much.. I felt like I was hurting him... So, call me crazy, but I tested myself... I wanted to see what Jupiter was experiencing... let me tell you - it really doesnt hurt... its the littlest pinch... Dont feel bad for testing, because you are doing it because you love your kitty and want to keep them safe. I think it takes time, but eventually your kitty will probably realize that.

    Jupiter doesnt seem to mind me testing him anymore at all... Infact I think sometimes he enjoys it because he gets a treat and lots of pets and love! We use freeze dried treats and he LOVES them!


    Just keep in mind, that someone is always here to help you whenever you need it. So although you might feel overwhelmed at times, just know you are not alone! You did absolutely amazing tonight taking care of your cat - you should be proud of yourself for keeping her safe
     
  28. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    I have been up with her all night. She ate, she was fine, watched her very carefully. Just tested now - it said "HI" on the meter - did the test TWICE to be sure. Gave HALF a unit insulin. Don't know what to enter on the spreadsheet or if we should be doing anything special? She is calm and hanging out.
    Appreciative, tired mummy
     
  29. Simon'sMommy

    Simon'sMommy Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    In the spot where you put the number, you write the word High. Everyone knows that means over the meter's capacity to measure the number. Just make sure to get a test in soon since your kitty went so low last night and so keep an eye on her!
     
  30. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    thanks - anything else I should be doing?
     
  31. Simon'sMommy

    Simon'sMommy Well-Known Member

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    Just try to make sure she eats since you gave her a shot and watch her. Try to get another test in at the 2 hour mark to see where she is. Someone with more experience should be along by then. I know you must be exhausted at this point, but you did a great job with her. This is scary stuff for sure. I know you must be feeling drained and that your kitty must be tired too, so let her sleep for a while after feeding and then give her a test. Hang in there Mommy!
     
  32. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Thanks for the kind words - I am ready to shoot myself with insulin! Haven't slept in ages and have the shakes - KNOW I need to take care of myself so I can take care of her but it sure isn't easy. She has a vet appt. tomorrow so at least that is secured ....will have to go buy more lancets in a while too.
     
  33. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

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    Nov 22, 2012
    Good morning Nataschia,
    I've been following your post--you did a great job! When was the last time you fed here?
     
  34. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Put food down after test & insulin. Haven't been up to see IF she's eaten yet - wanted her to stay calm and do it by herself. Have 2 cats but I put 2 bowls down so there will be plenty for her. She was sunning herself on the hammock, seemed just fine and she KNOWS I put food down. Trying to give her some space. I am radiating stress to her - I was going to check in a little while after she's had a chance to eat
     
  35. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Oh, I see you are in Ohio - me too - wanna come over & help? :!:
     
  36. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

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    I would be more than happy to help you if we aren't too far from each other. If you want, send me a PM as to where your approximate location is; you do not have to name the exact city if you aren't comfortable with that...
     
  37. Cleo & Jane (GA)

    Cleo & Jane (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Apr 6, 2013
    Hi Bernadette,

    Just wanted to let you know that you and your hubby did a great job last night! I am jealous that your hubby helps, as mine won't do anything with any of the "sharp" things. He does help with LB (litterbox) clean up though.

    All I can tell you is "it does get better," and you will never feel alone due to this site. This is such a devoted group of people, who know more about Feline Diabetes (FD), than almost any vet. They have helped more cats become regulated, and get completely off of insulin, (OTJ - off the juice), and stay that way through diet alone. There is so much to learn, but one step at a time.

    I would check with the experts on this site before I make any changes that the vet suggests. These guys really know more about FD, cause that is their "Specialty." :razz:

    BTW, your kitty is adorable!!!
     
  38. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Jane, thanks for the words or encouragement! Really appreciated. Don't get too jealous of my husband as he is totally spoiled in all other areas and needed to "step up" ........ I was (am) such a wreak that I've been getting shaky (lack of food & sleep maybe) so I asked him to do it just until I calm down! Wonder when that will be? She has aged me 10 years this week - I may steal some of her allowance for a massage at a spa ...... since she is lounging and sunning herself on her window hammock without a care in the world! Tashie's Avatar makes her look much bigger than she is - she's a little 5 pounder and has big blue eyes, may baby girl!

    Have a great rest of the day, and thank you!
    Bernadette
     
  39. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Good morning! I am on my third :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

    When you are out shopping for lancets you should pick up some of those ketone urine strips too.

    She is probably high for 2 reasons this morning

    1. all the syrup last night. Make sure thats all taken away now
    2. She bounced off the low - explanation of bounce below - but basically this means she will come down to better numbers soon so dont panic about the high. If you can do a +6 test today (that means six hours after her morning shot which is mid cycle) that would be great but if not, thats ok. And make sure you give her a nice low carb treat after every test - whether successful or not!

     
  40. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Thanks Wendy! You are a pal! Tashie is resting very comfortably and her eyes are nice & bright - not so much last night. Is there something I can put IN the litter box to test for ketones? Not sure how to do this part - will try to read up, can you suggest a page? I think you've sent it to me before but with all that has been going on - can't remember! I will keep her fed and happy today - vet appt. tomorrow @ 11:15. Glad I have that "in the wings" also pulled out the ER info last night just in case we needed it! What a night! And, on top of all that, it was freezing cold! Burrr!
    BTW, see you are from Glasgow - I was born in England!
    DH going shopping soon - he looks like he's been through the war! Men! I haven't slept in DAYS! Oh, and I have noted that I haven't seen any MEN yest on this board :lol:

    Time to switch from coffee to coke! Here's to a CALM day!

    xx
     
  41. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nope but you essentially dip the stick into the pee - here are some tips https://docs.google.com/document/d/1quta5WLEjdO0Y_t2dAYSwN84h-LNZWxOdtVsJDKZ16A/pub

    I would stick the ER stuff to the fridge. And make sure your hypo kit is all ready- you never know when you might need it.- see below

    You are right its mainly women, but there are some great guys on here too. And maybe many guys lurking who dont want to admit it ;)

    N CASE OF EMERGENCY - YOUR HYPO KIT
    Put together NOW the following items and put in an easily accessible place!
    Phone number of your vet
    Phone number, address and map/directions to your nearest emergency vet (or phone number of the cab company and some cash/credit card)
    Karo syrup, honey or corn syrup
    High carb canned food with gravy – 2-3 cans
    Some favourite treats
    Spare pack of 25 blood glucose strips
    Coffee for you ;)
     
  42. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2010
    Good morning, Bernadette

    I wondered how your night went. I'm not surprised she is high....it is most likely a bounce as Wendy stated. As well, the decreased dose drained her depot a bit. The activity from last night was likely due to the depot from a higher dose and shooting a dropping number ;-) you did great!

    Almost all cats bounce; every cat is different (ECID) so some bounce only a short time and some bounce much, much longer. If you scroll back up to TheBowHuntress post (Kat and Gobbles) and click on Gobbles' spreadsheet (SS), you will see he was very bouncy....and now is almost in remission :D

    There are different ways to test ketones but the easiest is to put a small ladle under her bottom as she squats to pee. My Gracie is also a little girl so I make little trays out of foil and put them under her bottom ...you only need to collect a small amount of urine. Be sure you get the Ketostix and not the glucose sticks. You also don't need the diastix....they test glucose and ketones and you are already testing blood glucose so save the money. You should check her urine every day for a while. You dip the test tip of the stick in the urine, hold exactly 15 mins, then check against the color chart on the bottle. We want to see "negative". If you see anything other than that, let us know immediately.

    Strong word of advice...no matter what else you have going on, sleep while her numbers are high. Lay off the testing for a bit and take care of yourself.

    Husbands are trainable....mine does everything I do with Gracie and he even posts on the board on my work days. Carl is another member you will see on Health and he also helps us out in the Lantus TR ISG when it's busy. He's fabulous..calm, funny, and smart. There are actually several male members....men love their cats, too :D

    When you have rested, it's always good to go back through the thread and reread everything so you will be prepared for next time......there will be one ;-) but we will be here for you :D

    Have a great day.
     
  43. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Thank you Marje. Sorry if I zoned out last night, it just got all too much. Going to take a nice hot shower as it's freezing here - one top of all that was going on, had to put sheets on my plants for frost protection - now I have 40+ sheets to wash & fold - WHY do I do this :roll:

    I was just kidding about the guys - hey, I NEED Jim to do his part right now! Soon, I will be taking over but need to CALM down first!

    Have a nice rest of the day and prey that there are no more posts from ME!

    Thanks for all your help! Really!

    B
     
  44. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Well it works both ways - he can train you how to test!
     
  45. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    :eek: really? Ha! Just took a hot shower - boy, did that feel good! Drinking raspberry yogurt to get some protein in me!
     
  46. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Tash JUST ate a LOT - she is due for 1/2 time testing in 15 minutes -should I wait a bit longer????
     
  47. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nope - I would go ahead and test anyway. She is getting low carb food and it wont kick in for a wee while anyway.
     
  48. Simon'sMommy

    Simon'sMommy Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    This is exhausting and you are doing a great job. They are our children these kitties and we do what we have to do to keep them safe. Pat yourself on the back and get some rest. You earned it! :thumbup
     
  49. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Thanks! I'll test on schedule and post ASAP. You guys are fab!
     
  50. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Just re tested EXACTLY 6 hours from the "HIGH" reading at 7:30 AM. She was doesed with .05U at that time. She is now at 157. Please advise.

    Her little ears are looking horrible, ah.
     
  51. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Put a dab of neosporin on them. Make sure you apply pressure to the wound for a good few seconds after the poke too. New lancets will help as well.

    She is coming down from her bounce. You might want to get some sleep now.. ;)

    Hows your lancet and blood strip stash? what about the ketone strips?
    Did Jim go shopping yet?

    Wendy
     
  52. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Jim just left - waited until after this test. Also having him get a stash of GRAVY lovers FF as well, I was just lucky to have had that tin last night - it was a buying error that I hid in the back of the cupboard. Meant to be! And, something must be getting through to me as I did put some Neosporin w/pain on that little lovely ear!
     
  53. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Great! Are you remembering the low carb treats after each test?
     
  54. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Honey, she is not a treaty kind of girl - she is getting LOTS of "good girl" "pretty girl" and I just laid out another feast for them. Boris is kinda likin' this new feeding schedule and is relieved that , for a change, he isn't the one getting med's. But he's keeping a keen eye on what's going on!
     
  55. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Should take the SS to the vet w/ me tomorrow huh?
     
  56. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    That 157 at +6 is a good number. Somewhere between +5 and +7 is a usual nadir or low spot for most kitties.

    By the way. Fantastic job on supporting Tash last night with the tests and foods.

    Marje is one of the best advisors here, and lives in AZ and seems to be a night owl so stays up with folks to walk them through those low numbers.
     
  57. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    I have a cat like that but I managed to find a treat she would like - freeze dried chicken, or even better plain grilled chicken bits.

    yes take the SS tomorrow! You will probably have to explain it to them but it should be very useful for them to see. Also bring your meter and some strips so they can compare it to theirs.

    Wendy
     
  58. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Deb ;-) :D

    Bernadette....that's a pretty significant dive she has going on today. She bounced up and now she's "clearing the bounce" and I wouldn't be surprised if she throws you another dropping number below 200 at PMPS. When cats clear bounces, they often do it with a dramatic flair....that is, they come back down fast. Coming down fast can also trigger another bounce.

    In addition, a higher dose can affect up to six subsequent cycles. It's not like that for every cat but we don't know, yet, for Tashie....some of this could still be her depot.

    To try and stop that drop, can you please give her just a couple tsps of that gravy lovers food and see if we can slow her down a bit?

    I'd really like for you to be able to safely get some Insulin her tonight but I want you to stick with the 200 "no shoot" number here for tonight. If we can slow her a bit, it might also flatten her out above 200 and allow you to shoot.
     
  59. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Jim is out now buying GRAVY Lovers. How soon before her next BG test should she get it? ...... if she is BELOW 200 at +12 I will post & wait to see what you advise. If she is over 200, will give dose 0.05U. what if she is like 210? Is there a range or just stick with the 200?
     
  60. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2010
    Stick with 200.

    Ok...so you don't have any of the food left over from last night from the one tin? How about just feeding her a few tsp of what she normally eats (canned) for now ? It usually takes 30 mins after you feed before we see it show the effect show on the meter. So once you feed her, give her at least 30 mins and see if it slowed her down.

    On her ears....I always hold a cool, wet baby washcloth to Gracies ear after I test so it stops the bleeding and keeps it from bruising. Also, I put a tiny dab of Neosporin Ointment (not cream) with pain relief on her ear after every test. Then I rub it off before the next one but I alternate ears. Some people only test one ear because usually one bleeds better than the other one. Some test one ear for a week, then switch....you will have to figure out what works best for Tashie.

    Here are some Testing and Shooting Tips that might help you. One thing that really helps is making sure the bevel on the lancet and the syringe are facing up so the sharpest point enters first.

    I'd really like it if you can feed her, wait 30 mins, and grab a test no later than +8 (3:30EST). Possible?
     
  61. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    It's 2:40 and he's not back yet. No food left over as I tried to get her to pig out last night. There are 2 bowls of Fancy Feasts Classics down right now - put them down after testing. Not sure if she has eaten, I will check.
     
  62. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    SOME food is gone - she has moved from where she was but not sure WHO ate it. MEN! Just called him on his phone to find it ringing in the kitchen - he didn't take it! I'm off to lay down for a bit - will let you know when he returns! Any point to doing the test at 5:30? IF he's back?
     
  63. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    I'd like you to test as soon as you can. I don't want you to suddenly find her at 80.
     
  64. BorisV

    BorisV Member

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    May 23, 2013
    Marje, he is still not home. I have no food / no testing supplies. When he left he was under the assumption that we would just test again at 7:30.

    SOME NEW QUESTIONS:
    what if we do find her at 80? Maybe the 0.05 dose is all she needs, along with the low carb food? Isn't 80 good? Yes, that means we can't shoot her but maybe she doesn't "need" it?

    what is the purpose of giving her the gravy food and "spiking" her up? Just to give her a shot to bring it down - and, if she was off the charts this morning and 0.05 U dose brings her this far down - isn't that a good thing? What could it do to her is she is only say, at 210 and the 0.05 U brings her WAY WAY down?

    IF he gets back, I can put GRAVY FF down for her, say at 5:30 and wait to test at normal 7:30 time? Wouldn't that work? What am I missing here? Sorry if I'm being a bit thick. Starting to get a bit wound up again........
     
  65. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Sorry, Bernadette....was outside watering plants.

    If she is at 80, skip the shot. See where she is in the morning. It's possible that she won't need insulin but typically we take it a shot at a time. As the depot entirely drains, you might see that she will need a small dose of insulin. We just did this with another cat....had her shoot 0.1u when he was above 250. However,nonce the depot drained, his numbers went way up so we had her increase the dose to .25u bid (twice/day).

    Lantus works so that every shot you give builds upon the previous one so you get a cumulative effect.

    I didn't want to spike her up; I wanted to slow her down. I don't know that .5u is bringing her down this far. It could either by the depot (remember she was on 1u and that can affect up to six subsequent cycles especially since her depot was pretty full as evidenced by how she dropped in earlier cycles). Also, when they clear bounces like this, they often get a pretty good drop going fast. But it might not be indicative of how they would look when they flatten out on a dose more.

    You don't want to feed her two hours before her shot and, at this point, the only thing I'd give her before +10 is LC.

    You aren't being thick...you asked very good, very reasonable questions. I'm glad you asked and are thinking this through.

    Think of lantus dosing as steering a cruise ship. You can turn the wheel but it takes time to see the course change.
     
  66. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Okay then. in 28 (+10) minutes I will give her some LC (Low carb) food. Oh, but wait - she has some down now - if not eaten in 28 minutes, take it AWAY? Or give her another 1/2 hour? She's chillin and I don't want her to get worked up. Seems to me that I've noticed that the calmer she is, the better the results and she perks up. On a "normal" day I often had to do "Tashie checks" as she likes her dark places and I always like to do head checks! Right now she is going crazy with us looking in - I think that up's her stress. I went out two days last week for 4 hours a time (I was brave) and she was SO much better when I got home. I think she may not be sleeping as much since she is on guard?
    If you will just confirm the above.

    RECAP: TEST at +12 - if BELOW 200 do nothing = but update SS and post here. Anything else?
     
  67. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Are you able to test her now? If you can, it would give us some idea of where she is headed before PMPS.

    If she has had food down, just leave it for now but be sure you pull it up before +10.

    I think she probably slept less with everything last night.
     
  68. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    he;s not home! If he doesn't get here soon I am sending a search party - can't yell though as it's an ikky day here and he THOUGHT we weren't testing until 7:30 and it's only 5:15. He went to get testing supplies along w/ food
     
  69. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    And you can't test her alone yet, right? Can you try?

    The reason we like late cycle tests like this is so we know if she's headed up, down, or just flat. It helps us plan the next step.

    Sorry...yes....if you test at +12 and she is below 200, do not shoot. Post here.

    Just to throw out for your thoughts...if she is below 200 but not much, would you be interested in stalling for a bit, retesting, and when she's above 200, shooting? Keep in mind that if you do stall and shoot, you will have to shoot 12 hours from that time. So if you stall one hour and shoot at 8:30, you will shoot at 8:30 tomorrow morning and then we slowly get you back on track.

    What do you think?
     
  70. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Marje, not sure. Jim leaves for work at 7:45 and I have not yet done shots / testing - I am not ready to start NOW :YMSIGH: .....She does have a vet appt at 11:15 though. just took food away. Be back in an hour and 45! Fingers crossed!
     
  71. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Ok. See you then.
     
  72. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Quick question ..... REGARDLESS of what her numbers are, can I feed her after the test?
     
  73. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    If she is above 200 and you are going to shoot, then feed her when you shoot. If she is below 200 and you aren't going to shoot, feed her :D
     
  74. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Whoo Hoo!!! (I think) 322! Gave 0.05 U. Fed .......... tell me this is a good thing! Not that I WANT her to be 322 but that she got insulin! Yeah?!!!!!!
     
  75. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Good job! Please feed her and then get a +2 test so we can see what her evening plans are.

    :D :D
     
  76. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Marje, I really don't want to jab her again - please! She is going to the vet tomorrow and I just can't poke her again - okay?
     
  77. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Bernadette....I'm just trying to help you keep her safe. I have seen cats go from 300 at PS to 40 mid cycle to 300 at the next PS. The way she came down today tells me she can work this dose right now.

    At the very least, I would recommend you check her once.....before you go to bed. But it's your call...I do understand and I hope you understand that my experience tells me that she could go either way....way up or way down.
     
  78. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    I appreciate that, really, I do. So, if we do the 2+ test - can we be done with the prods for the night? Really, it's getting to be nerve wracking for all. Deal? I will test at 2+ which will be in exactly an hour, I will post, wait for a reply and then, unless we are in dire straights, TRY to go to bed? I feel I am becoming ill over this - seriously, I can't eat and when I force myself to, it's just going through me.
     
  79. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Deal. I appreciate it. Just to tell you what I'm looking for with that +2.

    If it is much higher than the PS, it's likely to be an inactive cycle. Sleep is in your near future.
    If its similar to the PS, it's likely to be a normal, active lantus.
    If its much less, then you should be prepared that she might have a very active cycle.

    I'll keep my paws crossed for higher :D

    I'm sorry you have this anxiety. I think we all experienced it so I am empathetic. I know you love your baby very much.

    See you shortly.
     
  80. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    And she's actually just jumped on the bed w me to snuggle - good sign! And I need this!
     
  81. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    553 - it was a nightmare getting her ears to bleed - had to do like 8 times and use 3 strips. bed time?
     
  82. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    PS. there HAD to be a bit of stress involved here for her - so maybe it's not quite THAT high!
     
  83. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    PPS. Also she had just jumped off the bed to eat - she seems to "know" to eat when she goes higher.... can I give her more LC food now?
     
  84. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Yikes. Are you warming her ears?

    My rule of thumb is, when you know they are not below 50, is give it three tries. Then walk away and leave her for about 15 minutes. Breathe, talk softly, love on her. Then try again. I promise her ears will learn to bleed. I barely touch the tip of the lancet to Gracies and they bleed.

    Are you using a meter that only requires a tiny bit of blood?

    Get some sleep.....if Jim is up at +10/+11, a test would be good so you don't get any shockers at AMPS.

    hug that baby for me :D

    PS...absolutely.....when she's high and you are not within the +10to +12 time, let her eat. You might want to read this sometime soon...a good discussion on Feed Kitty as Much as they Want.
     
  85. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    THANK YOU for being here - think I need to get my blood pressure tested! Yikes! So, I am off to feed & kiss her and BED! See ya in the mornin'!
     
  86. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    :lol: not me, girlfriend.....I'll be I-) I-) I-) I-) at your AMPS ;-) I'm the nocturnal one. ;-)

    Sleep well.
     
  87. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Are we clear on dose etc for tomorrow morning?
     
  88. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Below 200, no shoot.

    I actually have a pretty strong feeling she went low today....thus the high numbers tonight.
     
  89. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Above 200, shoot 0.5?
     
  90. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Oops...yes...above 200, shoot 0.5u.
     
  91. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    I keep seeing that mom cat is typing ".05" just to clarify, does she mean a .50 shot ? I never heard of a .05 shot- it would mean, what, about a drop?
     
  92. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Mom cat is a stressed out momma! She needs to learn how to PROPERLY chart 1/2 of 1.0U! ........trust me, the eyes have a hard time doing that - how would you draw 0.05?!!! Bear with me - I'll learn! Doing this under duress @-)
     
  93. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Tash read HIGH on the meter this morning. The water bowl was almost empty. Received her 0.5 U shot and fed LC food. We go to the vet this morning and I was wondering if anyone out there could help me explain exactly what we are up to - why were are going it in very simple terms. I think she (vet) will be fine with it but I don't want to insult her as I still "need" her.

    Oh, and FYI - if looking at my SS I have 0.05U it should be 0.5U - SS won't let me change the value.
     
  94. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    1. 1u was too much of a starting dose for such a tiny kitty.
    2. dose reduced to 0.5U because of hypo.
    3. home testing started to keep your kitty safe
    3a. testing before every shot to make sure the BG is high enough to dose (200 for now)
    3b. testing at other times to find the nadir or low. lantus dosing changes are made based on the nadirs.
    4. HI numbers the last few days because a kitty can bounce for up to 72 hours from those low numbers.
    5. feeding low carb canned food now to help keep the numbers low

    I think that about covers it. If not let me know what else you need to talk to the vet about.


    ETA: Where do you live? East coast? Would you be willing to change your user control panel, profile, edit profile and update the location field to indicate what state/province you live in? Sure would be a useful bit of information.
     
  95. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Thanks Deb! Gosh, I must be starting to "get it" :idea: as this is what I sort of came up with too but wanted to make sure! A lot to absorb in just a few days but I think some of it may be sinking in ..... ? Seems I am not a great under stress as I thought I was - I'd be better if this was a human and not my baby! .......I started the SS not knowing what the heck ANY of it was - just filled out the columns and that was that - now I KNOW what they mean - duh!
    You guys are fabulous for always being there! Pat yourselves on the back! twice!

    B
     
  96. TheBowHuntress

    TheBowHuntress Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    I feel your pain! I was so totally freaking out when Gobbles' was dx'd that I think I was driving everyone bonkers....and it didn't let up for a few months :shock: I do know about the eye thing.... Are you using half-unit syringes? They are marked with half unit increments so it is a lot easier to try to do a dose like .50 . What I finally figured out to do was put a pair of reading glasses over my regular glasses (or contacts, if I was wearing them)....It really helped a lot. I also would draw the needle/insulin in our bathroom which has a lot of lights over the mirror. Maybe try something like that? And I do know how hard it is to not stress out, believe me :D Maybe try some deep breathing exercises? You are doing a superb job; it will get easier, really--just hang in there cat_pet_icon
     
  97. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Deb: updated user control panel . Let me know if you need any more info.

    The Bow Huntress: Yes, we have the half unit syringes. Originally using the pen needles but changed ove about 4 days ago. Trust me - there are reading glasses WITH the syringes, flashlights with the lancets, and I "pre tray" all for PS testing - have ALL supplies needed along with clean food bowls, change of water, food, neosporin, rice sock ready for warming .....the whole deal! I make it up WAY ahead - it's becoming a new routine.

    I am sure MY stress level will go down once we get this a bit more regulated. I also think I may have a little bug or something but we'll deal with me later - actually got SOME sleep last night so things are looking up!
     
  98. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Sorry Bernadette, I think I'm a little brain dead this morning. I do remember you saying you were from Ohio. But my excuse is that 4 pages of posts is a lot and information can get lost in the shuffle. ohmygod_smile

    When you have time, you may want to go back and read through those 4 pages and make a list of questions. We were throwing a lot of information at you pretty fast and want to make sure you understand the whys and wherefores.

    I equate this to a crash course, college masters degree level, in learning to manage a diabetic cat. Yes, the stress can be unbelievable. :shock:

    Please remember to take some time for yourself to recharge and refresh yourself. We tell people to breath, just breath. Take a deep breath, let it out slowly, take another deep breath, let it out slowly, repeat as necessary. It really does help.

    This is a physically, mentally, emotionally draining process. It does get better and easier. The first 2 weeks are the hardest I think. After a month it gets a bit easier. After two months, you'll feel like you have been here for years.

    You'll be an old pro in no time and letting other new members know it can be done and support them along the way with what you have learned. Those words of encouragement from another recent new member are as important, maybe more important, than the words from the oldtimers.

    ETA: more info on the user control panel? Your name is nice, any complicating conditions your cat Tash may have like IBD or CRF, Tash's weight, what food you are feeding.
     
  99. BorisV

    BorisV Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    will do! THANKS!
     
  100. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Good morning ladies!

    Good summary by Deb on what to discuss with the vet. Be aware that vets like to run fructosamine tests. This provides you with an average BG over the last few weeks. Most of us do not pay for this as we are getting real time data by hometesting and that data is much better and a more accurate view of what's going on. The fruc tests don't show you the highs and lows.

    I have to be quite honest here and then I'm going to zip it and go back to Lantus Land (LL) I think Tashie is getting low on you somewhere in the cycle. I have no idea how low because the liver will release those counterregulatory hormones and glucagon even on numbers in the 100-200 range or when the BG drops fast like yesterday. BUT, popping up into the 500s worries me that she is going lower than we would like.

    It's going to be difficult to zero in on a good dose for her without a bit more testing. I know we need to be careful with her but at least a midcycle test during the day and, if possible, somewhere around +4 or +5 at night. That puts it closer to midcycle but also puts it in the 11:30-12:30 time range for you so it's not TOO late and you don't have to get up at +6 or +7. The +4/+5 are not ideal tests but work as a "before bed" test.

    Anytime you are getting dropping numbers into the low 100s, anywhere in the cycle, you need to grab another test and see where she stops.

    Ok...you are in great hands here. When you are ready (more comfy), we would love to see you in the Lantus TR ISG. On the main FDMB page, just scroll down to Insulin Support Groups and click on Lantus TR ISG.

    Good luck at the vet. :D
     

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