Non-insulin BG levels since switch to wet food

Hello All!

I have switched to 100% wet food and today is really the first complete day. I began four days ago getting once/day random BG levels, to give to the vet next Wednesday when he is scheduled to start Lantus. We decided to reschedule next Wed. after I broke the vial of Lantus.

His BG levels before we stopped dry food was 303 and 297. But since beginning the switch thay have been 250, 263 and 273. Each of those have been about 2 hours after he has eaten.

What are the BG levels that are necessary to not require insulin? I think this is wishful thinking, but I am wondering if he is really going to need insulin? If so, I am afraid I am going to really have to watch his levels when we do start insulin. I have 3 more days of 100% wet food to hometest levels for the vet.

Is it good that hs non-insulin levels are alreadt <300?

dancing_cat

 

For my Twigi, I give a little insulin (like 0.1 or 0.2U) if her BG is above 150. If I don't I find her BG just continues to creep upwards. I think the numbers you posted were taken at home. If so, then with those type number I would start insulin. If there were taken at the vet, they may indicate that no insulin is required since the BG level for many cats is elevated at the vet.

 

It always amazes me how much a change in diet can impact BG...I don't know why that is, all of us here have seen it time and time again.

The current BG's are still in the diabetic range; however, the reduction as a result of the diet change is good. You are right, as most of us have learned, you will have to monitor the BG's carefully once you start insulin.

Be sure and take all your information to the vet. Also, it will be helpful to the vet if you can provide very specific information about the diet (how much, how often, etc.).

 

Great that you are on 100% canned food

Normal bg levels are about 60 to 150 md/dl. It's great that your cat's bgs are lower now on the canned food but they are still diabetic numbers. Your cat does need insulin to lower those numbers some more. Start Lantus at 1 unit twice a day and stick with the dose for at least a week. Lantus needs time to work on your cat's bg levels. Maybe your cat will be on of the lucky ones who only need insulin for a short time before going into remission

 

Congratulations on the switch to wet food!

1. You may be getting a food spike by testing 2 hours after feeding. If you were giving insulin, you would be testing before feeding. So you may want to get some pre-food tests in.

2. 70-120 are non-diabetic numbers. Though 200 is still a diabetic number, many here do not give insulin with this BG (this depends on the protocol worked out with their vet).

 

This is about what happened with Pearl and at about those numbers when we were diagnosed and I tried diet only. I can only say that they began to creep up eventually and I was rather sorry I did not start her on insulin a whole lot sooner. I think she might have become diet controlled if I had, but I let the numbers creep to the mid 300's before I gave in. That was just a really sorry mistake for us.

 

Thank you everyone. I was afraid of that but I will try to get levels before he eats tomorrow We will start the insulin next week.

I will also give the vet the info about what food and how much/when.

Yes I have been testing at home. The vet would always get really high numbers, like you said. Can we say *STRESS*? lol

Again====thank you so much all of your help and so quick! I love this board and sooo glad i found it.

 

Hello again! Three days into all wet food and Webbers BG this evening was 193!!! Now I am wondering if I should wait another week to see if the diet alone can fix him? I am going to call the vet tomorrow and see if she wants to wait a little bit so I can continue testing at home...


I got conflicting posts on what a normal BG range is. One listed that normal bg levels are about 60 to 150 md/dl and another was 70-120 md/dl.

What is a normal non diabetic range?

 

This is looking promising, Paige

Unfortunately the answer to your question is probably that pesty ECID - every cat is different. I think the range could probably be 60 - 150 (these numbers are for cats on insulin). I would prefer to see a cat, who is off insulin, under 80 or so. The 193 you got tonight would not be a number you would probably shoot so early into the game (if you were on insulin). If I were you, I would try the food a little longer - but not too long. You don't want to go past that window when the pancreas can be healed.

Let's see what others say.

 

I am not a Vet & I don't give advice when it comes to medical/science data but will say that I live in the USA & on Baby's Lab report for GLU (Glucose) the Referernce Range is 70-159. Which means to me that a non diabetic kitty would fall into that range, obviously the closer you get to 159 IS on the high end, hopefully this piece of data does not confuse you more, just wanted to throw my mention in laptop_smiley

P.S. VERY happy for your 193 reading!

 

If you continue to see that kind of number, I would say you are safe to wait another week. That is just excellent news! What are you feeding? Keep getting those tests! Try for a couple of times a day. Try for some before feeding.

 

Thank you two!

And yes the reference range on the lab results is for the normal. We are keeping our fingers and paws crossed over here. And yes I am weary about waiting too long. I would like to get at least a full week on just the food and see. Let's see what the vet says tomorrow!

Thank you for the positive comments!!

 

Karen,

I started the first day with Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets. However, the non-diabetic cats seemed to like the Sophisticat better. So I bought a couple of cases of the 13oz cans of Sophisticat Mixed Grill and Turkey and Giblets.

I was a little unsure at the beginnig of feeding the mixed grill because I saw caramel in the ingredients. But I called the customer care number and she told me that the carb percentage was only 0.06%.

I split the 13.3oz can between all four twice a day.

 

Paige -

Wow, how nice to see this posting and see Webber's numbers decreasing without insulin. Really, that is great news and I hope the trend continues! I know you'll keep us updated.

 

Hi there, glad to hear you have been successful with the diet change. I hope I'm not making things to confusing here but I wanted to address the apparent variations in the given reference ranges for "normal" blood glucose levels.

There is going to be a discrepancy in given normal ranges for almost every laboratory value. Ranges vary among individual labs dependant on the test method used the units used and the conditions of the test sample. Generally speaking a reference range is the interval of values that 95% of a given population falls into. The use of the term "normal values" should be avoided as it suggests that a value outside this range is abnormal, hence 5% of the population fall outside this range and considered "healthy" just as a value within the reference range does not (in most cases) rule a condition out, a value outside the range does not confirm a definite disorder (hence the saying "it's only 1 number")

The reference range for blood glucose in mammals is approximately between 65mg/dl (3,6 mmol/l) and 105mg/dl (5,8 mmol/l). The mean normal BG level for humans is about 90mg/dl and is tightly regulated by metabolic homeostasis.

Typical reference ranges for home blood glucose meters with respect to the calibration of the meter are:

60mg/dl - 110mg/dl Whole-blood calibrated
70 mg/dl - 120mg/dl Plasma-equivalent calibrated

Other factors can change the reference range for BG, health conditions, age/sex, time of day, and consumption of food or medications.

A range of 72 to 126 mg/dl is considered "normal" fasting BG (pre-meal=4-6 hours fasting) *plasma-equivalent
a BG of <180 mg/dl 2 hours after eating is considered normal (although typically depending on carbohydrate content BG rarely is >140 mg/dl)
after a 12 hour fast BG should be between 70-100mg/dl, continuous levels above 100 mg/dl are indicative of prediabetes.

Now we need to consider the device we are using to measure BG.....The above reference ranges are for a serum chemistry analyzer in a typical laboratory that is calibrated for the specific species. *Notice reference ranges are basically the same for all mammals, however the way the sample is analyzed varies slightly (due to differences in blood cell size and distribution of the concentration of molecules between blood cells and plasma).

Most of us are using a glucose meter standardized for human use, so there is a slight variation in the values. Typically a human meter underestimates the BG when used on a cat, so the reference range can be somewhat lower, exactly how much is questionable however I would personally consider a pre-meal BG over 120 mg/dl above the reference range. A 2-hour post prandial (after meal) of >140 mg/dl abnormal, particularly in a cat who's diet contains very low carbohydrates.

As I said before no single value is evidence of anything, but repeated measurements outside the reference ranges are significant. I suggest you take this information and consider it in the context of your measurements and decide what you think you need to do (either begin insulin or continue to try making dietary changes and get more measurements).

If you decide to use insulin you are ahead of the game in that you are already able to test and have made diet changes, I wish you luck whichever road you take!

Edited for typos, spelling and other errors, geez!

 

Well guys yesterdays low reading may have been a fluke. Or at least making some sort of progress slowly. This morning his pre breakfast BG was 271 and this evening before dinner it was 250.

I am going to go ahead and take him in tomorrow with my spreadsheet of values, my glucometer, insulin pens, syringes, food, etc. you name it.

I was crying pretty hard earlier because I was too hopeful that diet alone would help him. Who knows......I just feel so helpless and of course blame myself somehow for what he is going through. Maybe if he had not been on Lactulose for so long....

No one has to say anything to make me feel better. It is just nice to share my feelings with others that understand exactly what I am going through.

I just feel like it isn't fair to Webber. He has already had three orthopedic surgeries in his 4 years of life. Anyone who knows me well, knows that my four cats are my children and there is nothing that I would not do for them.

Funny thing though......over the 17 years that my husband and I have been together, I have turned him into a TRUE animal lover.

 

Paige, I know you don't need someone to make you feel better... but I really need to say that you should not lose hope. Sure, it appears that he needs insulin at this time... but the sooner you start that - starting low and going slow - the sooner you are giving his pancreas a chance to heal. He may only need to be on insulin for a short time. He may need insulin for longer... but you will see how much better he feels in a week or two and you too will feel better and know that you have done so much to make that happen.

Having switched his food and knowing to test his blood is amazing at this stage in the dance... Do what you need to do and let that bond happen... You and Webber will be closer than ever after all of this.

Please keep us posted.

 

I am going to start Baby on Insulin tomorrow - our kitties were diagnosed around the same time (mine a little sooner)
& after an all canned diet - both of our kitties are running about the same #s too (so I am keeping an eye on your posts)
Best of luck to us both, but most importanly all of our kitties on FDMB. flip_cat dancing_cat

 

Thank you for those kinds words of sopport Victoria.

Wow-I will certainly keep you posted about Webber's #'s. Good luck to baby, I hope we all come out of this well.

 

I hope so too, thank you!
Please let us know how it goes at the Vet today - anxiously awaiting to hear! :smile: