Numbers dropping rapidly, need some help.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/should-i-give-a-second-shot.162820/

So numbers are going really low on half the dose recommended by the vet.

Shot at just over 250 1/2 unit

Tested 50@ +3
Gave a tiny amount of food with gravy
Tested 15 minutes later @ 74 (4.1)
Tested 30 minutes later @68 (3.8 - given more food)

 

Ok we gotcha! You don't want to fill her up so can you give her a bit of gravy with honey (about a tsp.) mixed in. She is still a few hours away from nadir so we don't want her getting too full and unwilling to eat.

 

Your +4 test came up nicely and is in a low end safe range for the AT2 meter. You didn't have to "fight" to bring the numbers up so that is a good sign that Tempest is not going to do an Olympic dive tonight.

 

Doh I forgot to convert the numbers.. One second,. Bit stressed here and I got blood in my eye.. Oh the joys! Lol

 

Deep breathes. You've got this and we've got your back so no worries.

 

You're doing a great job!

 

I use the same system as you with the mmol/L and I struggled for quite a while when I did post before I had a spreadsheet. Just too many things to think of all at once...brain explosion

 

put some honey on and she won't eat it.. Typical..

Update she wants to play fetch? I don't understand..

 

Oh dang! Your Tempest sounds like my Menace! Won't eat anything sweet even if you put it on a yummy Temptation treat! Ok stick with gravy for now and we'll see where she is shortly. Can you test her again in 10 minutes or so?

 

Yes, she's a bit annoyed with all the tests though but I will do everything possible to get it.

 

Wow! Glad you caught that number. You're doing amazing!

 

Thank you!
Makes me wonder if I missed something like this when I was at work today though. Scary thought I really hope I can get it levelled out.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't that 50 on AT earn a reduction?

 

Off the bat..I would venture to say that Tempest probably did not drop very low during the day today. If anything it might have been a slow, gradual drop through the cycle. Usually if a kitty drops very low, the body's natural defence systems will cause the numbers to rise higher... which is what we refer to as a bounce. It looks like..to me..that Tempest is starting to get "used" to lower healthier numbers.

 

Yes on the AT2 meter it is a definite decrease. I tagged @Sue and Oliver (GA) earlier to see if she could come up with some dosing suggestions or perhaps a sliding scale dosing.

 

Don't fret it! Enjoy it! The play will likely boost her BG!

Yes it does. This girl is strutting her stuff big time!

 

What did you shoot today?

 

Rachel, Tempest got 0.5u both this morning and tonight.

 

I think I'd drop the dose down. Do you think you could shoot 0.25? Not now obviously...for your next shot if over 200. It's possible a sliding scale would work, but I'm not really sure what I would suggest for that at this point. Sue might have some better ideas.

 

Rachel, Tara is using a AT2 meter so we suggested earlier that her no shoot number be raised based on meter difference and history and thought 250 would be a good number. Thoughts?

 

Tara, have you been able to get another reading yet?

 

Sorry folks, I went to try to get a bg and she's one heck of a grumpy cat right now, so,leaving her be for 10 mins before I try again.

 

I think my syringes have a quarter mark on them so yes. They are the prozinc ones.

 

Whoops! I agree 250 in that case.

 

I didn't think any of the U40 syringes had quarter dose markings but I could be wrong. Someone posted some syringes she found in the UK that made it easier but they were not ones she got from the vet. I'll try to find that post and picture.

 

Ok finally after a bit of hissing and spitting. (Don't blame her!) relief 194 and in the blue at nadir.

 

You're doing good. Probably a bunch of people watching.
I've managed to stick myself twice with the needle in the past year. So you're not the only one to make a mistake. I felt like putting up a sign "xyz days since the last accident".

 

Thanks for the update. Tempest seems to be on her way up now, so you can start thinking about sleep.

The big decision is what to dose for the AM shot. We have seen that 1/2 unit can drop her down into too low of greens. Some of the decision will also depend on her preshot number. Need some input from everyone..any idea ??

 

Yeah but that could be partially a stress elevation so I would suggest at least one more test to ensure she is holding steady before calling it a night! Where are we in the cycle now? I estimate about +5 or so....not at nadir yet!

ETA DAHHH! I forgot to look at SS. It's +6 now. I'd still get the extra test in just to be extra sure.

 

Oh heck no! What did you do, did you get any insulin in you? *horrified!*

Sorry it took so long.. That was the hardest one ever and really I can't blame her. She needs a lighter day I think to get a break.

Yes what do I do tomorrow?

You are correct I just checked it's only half marks.

 

I'd opt for 0.25u and Rachel recommended that too with no shot at a pre-shot reading under 250.

ETA can you eyeball 0.25u reasonably? a little too little is fine rather than too much!

 

I will do my best to estimate it with these syringes. .. I literally cannot afford anything else at the minute I've no money left... Not for a week or so.

 

I don't want to hijack the thread. It was post injection. Lantus. Stung like heck.
For Tempest, I agree with the other posters on the low dose.

 

I'm glad you were ok!

 

I agree that 1/4 unit as a proposed AM dose with a no shot of 250 should be a safe approach. If you have any readings in the AM that you are not sure of just post on here and someone will be around to help

 

Ok so just to make sure I understand this.

If she's at 250 or under don't give any?
If she's 251 or over give .25

 

That is what the general consensus is. The 1/2 unit took her just a bit too far down so 1/4 unit should be less dramatic, especially since you are not home to test during the whole cycle. Setting 250 as a no shoot gives a bit more room since you are using a pet meter which reads a bit higher than the human meter, which uses 200 as a no shoot number does.

 

I am home now until Monday thankfully. I'd not make it through work tomorrow so it's all good

 

Even with you being home 1/4 unit looks like the safer dose after that low green number tonight. You can do some spot checks tomorrow and see how Tempest responds to the lower dosing.

At least you can catch up on some sleep tomorrow.

 

I'll be around a while longer so I'll check here to see if there is any update.

If at any time you are uncomfortable shooting, then skip or set your no shoot number a little higher, maybe 275 for more of cushion. Some of this is a judgement/comfort call rather than an absolute number carved in stone. If you are not comfortable with the suggestion, then go with what you feel safe doing. I am confident 0.25u will be a better dose for Tempest but if I were you, I would want to be able to monitor her just to be sure after her drama queen actions tonight!

 

Ahh I meant being home and not having to work tomorrow and me staying up tonight being all good
I have to get up at 7 anyway so no lie in for me lol and I've a lot to get done about the house. No rest for the wicked.. Though I'm trying to figure out what I've done

 

If you've a fairly stiff ruler with millimeter or other small markings, you can use that to line up with the syringe. Although it may not be exactly 0.25 units, it will allow you to be consistent.

 

I think you are all right, the quarter dose might work well, I hope it does! I really wanted to start at 1/2 but the vet insisted on 1...
I will have to go a little easier on her tomorrow she's barely speaking to me, which isn't like her. So will do preshot, 4 6 8 probably if Shc cooperates if not then it could be a little past the schedule I've said

 

That's a great idea thank you!
I've a tape-measure, I could make a little mark on the syringe before I remove the caps etc

 

If Tempest is not being cooperative then get (of course) the preshot and +3 to start. The +3 gives you a good picture where the rest of the cycle is heading and how much you might need to test.

 

Just to add. You did a fine job dealing with your first low number. Even though the numbers didn't fall into a critical range it was low enough that it required close monitoring. The first time my first FD kitty hit a blue number I was in total panic so you are miles ahead of where I was

 

She's full of food, this is the most she's eaten for days. So even the chicken isn't tempting enough to bribe her with. But also because I'm sticking her a lot over the Last few days, bless her!

Ok will do the pre, +3 +6 and + 9 minimum tomorrow. That should hopefully space it out a bit and make it easier on her.

 

Sounds like a plan!

 

Thank you but the thing is, i didn't panic just as much because you were all here. (Not saying I didn't panic at all!) So it's thanks to you all who responded that I didn't reach defcon 1 .. Probably got to about 3, however tonight is the first night I didn't end up in tears. Lol I'm such a wimp...

 

I'm not going to post how many times I cried the first month when I started this whole FD experience, but I now have shares in the Kleenex company.

 

Good job tonight Tara! You put me shame on my first low reading too!

 

I did a lot of crying in the beginning too! You did a great job tonight!!!! Tempest is safe because of you.

 

Thank goodness for stickies! And your help! I've read and read those stickies so many times, made a plan in my head. And after being told how and what (your explaination last night) as to how the numbers are with regards to what's safe and when to take action I had a better grasp on what I should b doing so you need to give yourselves a massive pat on the back and (if it's your cup of tea) an extra large glass of wine!

 

We've all cried plenty of times! You did a great job.

 

Thank you! But not just because of me - because of you too!

Don't you all realise (yes I see the world a bit differently) that every time you help someone on here to come through this stuff, that in your own way 'you' are helping to save the cats lives too! Not just the Newbie like me who really has only half a clue what they are doing.

 

We are all just paying it forward, the same way others did when we first came on the forum. People on here get to love all the "virtual" kitties that we will never see in person, just as much as we love our own kitties. Welcome to the Crazy Cat Lady/Gentleman's site.





One day you will be doing the same thing!

 

Lol it's a pleasure to be here! Here's a pic of my old boy at 26 and tempest at 14 he was groomed as much as was comfortable for him. He always loved a good brush but last year he didn't and it was not his favourite thing but he was never tatty.

 

They are both gorgeous!! And they both look so fluffy and cuddly. It makes you just want to scoop them up and hug them .

 

I'd give so much for another Crunchie cuddle! He used to lie over my shoulder and get carried about or held on his back in my arms for a hot potato he loved that! Lol

Righty Tempest is beside me for the rest of the night so going to grab a couple of hours sleep. Then test her - all being well, if not it will have to be her amps...

Thank you everyone! nighty night

 

He looks amazing for 26! A testament to your good care and love!

 

Wow, 26 years old. That is just amazing. He does look pretty good in that pic.

 

Even the vets (new ones) had a hard time believing it lol esp as his blood tests came back as though he were a younger cat. he was amazing.

Ok so didn't get another test in last night! This mornings one much easier to get so think she's forgiven me! It is similar to yesterday am @353 so will go ahead with the plan and shoot .25 this morning.

 

Will be interesting to see how she does today!

I recently lost my DJ, who was 24. He was a barn cat and had lived outside all his life until the last few years when I brought him in(against his wishes!) he was in perfect health all his life.

 

That is amazing that people have had their kitties live so long. What a testament to good genes and good care.

I have not been blessed with a kitty that has survived past 15. My two, brother and sister, both diabetic will be 16 in October, so I am hoping they will be with me for a lot more years (anti-jinx)

 

In DJ's case it was definitely the genes. His brother made it to 22, again with no illnesses. Others in his family live well into their late teens. They came from a group of cats that lived down the street from the barn where I was boarding my horse. The elderly couple just let them breed, so we started grabbing and fixing everyone they'd let us. We kept a few, placed a few and let them keep the rest. When the couple moved away, they left the cats and the cats came to the barn on their own.

 

Tara

Just checked out your spreadsheet. It looks like Tempest is doing a bounce today which is totally normal after the lower numbers she got to last night. Nothing to be concerned about at this time. The higher number bounce can take a day or two to clear.

 

How wonderful that you stepped in to fix all those kitties. Too many people with unfixed kitties and it ends up with overpopulation problems....so sad.

I really think genes play a big part in longevity. Just like with some people who smoke, drink, eat wrong and don't exercise and they live to be 100. Another person fit as a fiddle in all ways passes at 50.

 

I'm so sorry for your loss, I'm still raw, before Tempest got the FD I thought I might be ready but I can't look at kittens or cats as I just cry at the thought - I have put that out of the picture now anyway - too much to cope with on top of everything else.
He sounds amazing Sharon. I'm sure he knows you brought him in because you loved him so much!

15 is still a fantastic age for a kitty! a 15 year old cat is about 80 in human years.
your two look gorgeous! I can see how well cared and loved they are! There's no reason they won't make it to their 20's

My +3 is up. Tiny drop. But one quarter is like a few drops. Tempest is still angry and now thinking about hiding - not where I wanted to go with this. I wish/ hope someday she might be as good as the ones you see in all the videos.

 

I was wondering about that! Thank you.

 

In between tests, try taking her to the test spot and just cuddle and give a treat, no test.

 

I have been doing that from the start but she's now not relaxing after the quick succession last night. Bless her.

 

GREAT suggestion!!

 

The other thing with making the test area more comfortable is finding the right "treat" for each particular kitty. My Tuxie is VERY food oriented so the association with the test area and testing is highly influenced by food..he goes to the test are on his own when he wants food/treats. My Maxie is NOT food oriented, but she loves her cuddles and brushings, so that is her "treat". Whatever makes them happy.

 

I've been considering moving to a different vets with her. Not sure yet though. But I know I can't exactly go back and tell my current one I didn't do as I was told. I'm not very good at not telling the truth either lol

 

Her favourite food is plain chicken, she would live on that and nothing else if I let her lol actually she practically has been living on it the last few days! She will eat a bit of the om nom nom and macs but she's not wowed by it like I was hoping. I know she likes jelly so might try to see if they do either of those brands in pouches with jelly.

 

Have you showed your vet the SS? My vet was quite impressed by it. I told him about this site and showed him a copy of the protocol and he was good with it.

 

I will message you

 

If your current vet is good he will look at the spreadsheet and see the trends in how the dosing is working with Tempest. Some vets have limited experience in dealing with feline diabetes and do not understand how the insulins really work. Since diabetic dogs are more "common" than diabetic kitty some vets think it works the same for both, but kitties are much different. If you like your vet but they don't approve of how you are handling Tempest's dosing, you can just do "your own thing", not tell them and just nod your head when they give dosing instructions. Later when you have positive results you can tell them what you have done. My current vet (changed from the one I first started with) has told me she learned a lot about FD from me, even though she keeps up to date with new studies. She isn't a big fan of testing and didn't think a kitty could have a hypo from the longer acting insulins like Lantus, Levemir and Prozinc. When I told her about the number of kitties on this forum that have had hypos and it was only caught by regular testing it certainly surprised her. Vets are like GP doctor... they know a little about a lot of diseases and conditions, but they are not specialists in any one.

 

He's a good vet, new to me but seems to know his stuff about diabetic dogs. I will pm you

 

I just got caught up to your night last night and good job handling you first lower number! And wow!!!about you 26 year old civvie cat. Just Amazing!

 

Thank you
He was an absolute star! Now he's amongst them! He just looks like Garfield lol miss him lots and lots!

 

+6 and going up. high numbers but at least she came down slowly - peaked at nadir (+6) and now going up gently I know it's far from perfect but to me it's good even if high.

 

This is a perfect example of a bounce because of the low numbers last night. At least you don't need to do any more testing until the PMPS time.

ETA Actually the preshot, +3 and +5 test are basically the same because of allowable meter variances. This is a flat cycle, so you will see how the evening cycle goes. It could also be flat or Tempest could decide to do some dropping through the evening cycle

 

Ahh.. :/ lol I can't wait to get stability to see what's what. I'm concerned as when this coming weeks over I have less time to be here for a couple of weeks due to other stuff I can't get out of. But will still be able to pop home and get a +6.

 

You still have time to see how the current dose will work. If there are ever time that you are unable to test during the day, you can always shoot a smaller dose if there are any concerns about dropping. Sometimes people have to adjust the dosing based on their life schedules. The main thing is to always make sure that our kitties will be safe.

 

I definitely need those u100 syringes so as soon as I can I will get them.
Thanks again. I'm going to take a break and spend a bit of time with tempest and get some lunch and what not am extra tired today

 

The U100 syringes will make it so much easier to do smaller dosing.

Take advantage of the bounce and relax and get some rest.

 

Just catching up here (dang computer giving me a headache!) Tempest is giving you a break today so hope you both get a well earned rest!

Love the pic of your furkids! I can only hope my 18yr. holds on for a few more years but I can definitely see him aging more now and that is tough when you remember them in their feisty prime. But for his age he's doing well.....still able to jump up on my high bed and the back of the sofa where he likes to nap in the sun and he's still a supreme cuddler so he's doing all right.

 

Haha slept for like 5 hours! Will sleep tonight too, my body is craving it.

He looks fab! I do like black cats - they are just like mini panthers sounds like he's in good shape too if he's able to do all that.

Word of warning for those of us with older kitties. I always let my pets sleep on my bed. But when they can't jump so well the door gets closed. Sounds mean but I almost lost an eye. My ginger boy always slept on top of my head on the pillow. To get onto to bed he would climb up using his claws, one morning he did that while I was fast asleep and pulled himself up with his claws in my face right where my eye duct was on the inside.. ( not his fault! As I was sleeping close to the side of the bed he was getting on) millimetres closer and well... ) I ended up with a black face down that side and a bloodshot eye for a couple of weeks lol both the dog and the cat have a box to climb onto (a step) to get up although Temoest only uses that if the dog wants up and then sits there haha


Would these be suitable? http://www.vetuk.co.uk/insulin-syri...nsulin-syringe-with-needle-box-of-100-p-11337

 

Glad you got some rest!!! I like black cats too, have 8 of them! I also have stairs next to my bed and the sofa for the old ones to use. I can't imagine having the claws to the face It's bad enough when they jump up and land on my stomach knocking the wind out of me...

 

Glad you didn't lose the eye from kitty climbing up. How unfortunate. We have steps for both beds. Maybe we'll use them too someday

You're doing the right treatment, and getting great advice. What a lucky kitty Tempest is.

 

Wow! 8 black kitties! Lol that must be very lucky! Here black cats are considered good luck to many people.
Yeah I'd definitely not recommend it on the face! Haha

The steps are a great idea, I made mine it's just a box though.

Today seems similar to yesterday, high numbers. Is this still a bounce?

 

It very well could be. Bounces can take 3 days to clear. I may have asked before, but do y ou have u100 needles? They can be used with our conversion chart for micro dosing. That would help fine tune the dose at these low amounts...if needed.

 

Might be time to adjust dose. Continue with .25 on the 250 yellow and below but increase to 0.5 on the pink pre shots in the 3oo+ range.

What do you think?

 

I can't afford more needles until next week. (already behind with my rent as it is) so eyeballing with the u40s

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/insulin-syri...nsulin-syringe-with-needle-box-of-100-p-11337

Would these do the job?

She's getting 0.25 but she crashed at the 1/2 unit as she went low on the 1u the vet wants me to give her.

do you mean the .25 at 250 and 1/2 at 300+?

 

Tara, yes I'm sure Sue meant 0.25u and 0.5u....a typo no doubt.

Thanks for the warning about kitties trying to climb rather than jump up on the bed. My sugar (avatar) is one of my young ones....she's just heading toward her 6th birthday. Here's a pic of my 18yr.old although this pic is from a year or two ago.


I'm fairly sure those are the right syringes but I am going to tag Alexi to confirm.
@Alexi can you confirm if these are the syringes you use to be able to micro dose with u40 insulin? Thanks!

 

Oh my! What an absolutely stunning kitty!! Is she a Maine coone? I'm drooling lol

Alexi gave me some brilliant links that's at the same site the u40 syringes she recommended me.

Ok I just wanted to be sure about the dosing as well, maybe, I was wrong.

 

Sorry - thanks for the correction. I'll change the post.

 

No he's a "Heinz 57" varieties although he may have some Maine Coone in his lineage somewhere! He's a big guy but not huge!

 

@TempestsMum - the link I gave you is the 0.5 ml, u40 0.5 unit marked syringes which I use and it is possible to eyeball 0.25 units http://www.vetuk.co.uk/insulin-syri...nsulin-syringe-with-needle-box-of-100-p-11335

You need the 0.5ml syringes not the 1 ml - unfortunately they don't do a 0.3ml syringe which would make it easier. If you need even smaller doses the bd microfine are a decent brand but they are u100 so you would need to do a conversion. https://www.amazon.co.uk/MicroFine-0-3ml-Insulin-Syringes-U100/dp/B00K86ZO20/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1471197327&sr=8-1&keywords=bd microfine 0.3ml insulin syringes u100 demi box of 100