Oreo Joe new tests = diabetic kitty

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Bonnie & Oreo Joe, Dec 27, 2017.

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  1. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Hello,
    Back in the beginning of October I came on here acting like an idiot even after having had a diabetic cat on this board for years. Then after much discussion and people trying to make me understand about insulin etc I finally understood what you all meant about cost and dosage I found out Oreo Joe wasn't diabetic. Home BS tests were around normal and our Vet did Hypothyroid tests and he was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. Put on medication and started to get better. Had a 6 week check with blood work at 8:30 AM and 2:30 PM and they showed he was doing better. Around the 18th of December he stopped eating his most loved treat of raw chicken breast and then stopped asking for his little crunchy treat and on Friday 22nd he didn't eat much. He refused food Sat thru today at 4pm. Trying to get him to take any food from me, including popping small amounts in his mouth didn't work. 1st appointment today was 1:45. Physical done, he laid there like a black puddle. Normal temp but blood work showed a really high BS now and long term.

    I don't know or really understand metric even though I have lived in Sweden 30 years. As a nurse in America way back when, I didn't learn metric. My cat Cessan that was diabetic here went off insulin the day I started her on the correct food and she never needed it again.

    I am not sure how to write out what the blood work was So I will put US and then Metric umol/L
    Glucose 372.6 ..... 20.7
    ALP 62.3 ..... 3.46
    T4 1476 ..... 82
    GPT 86.6 ..... 4.81
    Cre 2682.0 ..... 149
    Long term FRA 7974.0 ..... 443

    Oreo was given a shot to calm stomach and make him hungry at about 2:30 and while he has been to the water fountain several times in the hour we have been home he looks in his food dish, licks his lips and shakes his foot and walks away. Dr. said that starting his insulin as soon as he ate something and then decided 8pm would be good so I wasn't up at 5 AM to give insulin. I know I will need to get food in him before the shot but how much do I need to "shovel in?" He is a big cat he was almost 16 pounds ( he has battled weight since we adopted him.) Had lost some but started to gain in the fall. At the vets today he was 14 pounds.
    The vet ordered Prozinc 1½ Units every 12 hours. Now I remember I am to test, food and shot correct? She said if his BS was low I had to get food on board first, I knew that but I am not sure when not to shoot or do I see food is on board then give anyway. In the past years I have forgotten more than I remember from this board. I have a chronic illness and it makes it hard to always understand what to do or remember things.
    She told me to do a curve in 3 days. Seemed soon but I said ok.

    I remember back before we had a cat insulin cats were on Lantus and it started at ½ unit. She assured me that with ProZinc 1½ units was the correct dosage. I like her and trust her and unlike a few years back she knew what food he should have etc. Before I went through 5 vets who wanted to put her down, leave her go until she had to be put down or ordered 6½ units caninsulin on this skinny little female cat of maybe 5 pounds saying that it was just for pets and very very weak. Darn near killed her. I really need to know I am not screwing up. Oreo is 6½ to 7 years old fed dry food for 2½ years and lived in a cage for 2 years of that time. He has been on a diabetic diet since Spring of 2013 when we brought him home.

    He is laying on the floor on a rug with the water fountain and food dish of his chicken pate', but his back is to them both. Like he wants to be near them in case he gets hungry but can't stand looking at it now.
    Any advice on what I need to think of would help. I will be asking for help with the spread sheet as I can't even find them! Thank you all for being here. Once I get in a routine I should do ok. Just need to get pushed in the right direction.
    His Thyroid med has been stopped.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
    Reason for edit: FOR NOW HYPOTHYROID MED STOPPED
  2. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Welcome back-- I'm sorry you got this diagnosis for Oreo now, hopefully we can help. I'll keep this first note brief so as not to overwhelm you with more info right now, just hitting the highlights:

    1). Oreo is showing classic signs of nausea, and that's probably why he doesn't want to eat. The appetite stimulant that he got won't help if he is nauseated and there's nothing to counteract that-- do you know the name of the medication he was given? There are good anti-nauseas for cats you could ask your vet about, such as ondasetron, but it might depend on what meds he's already on. It definitely sounds like he needs something, though. In the meantime, try raising the food and water a few inches so that he doesn't have to duck his head to eat-- that can sometimes help with mild nausea.

    2) Spreadsheet instructions are here: FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS. Just holler if you need help setting things up-- we have some tech gurus who can help. I assume that this means you are home-testing, or planning to? That's fantastic and really the very best thing you can do for Oreo's care!

    3) ProZinc is a good insulin for cats, but I have no experience with it myself so I will defer to others who do regarding the starting dose. It does sound a bit high to me, especially with him not eating, although he is a big cat. I would definitely recommend getting some tests in during the day before the "curve day" set by the vet-- if that dose is too large for him, you'll be able to catch it before any major problems. If you've shot already today, try getting a test 3 or 4 hours after the shot (in our notation, we'd call that +3, +4-- we're all in different time zones, so "clock time" is tough to interpret, much like the metric numbers for those of us, me definitely included, raised on non-metric ;)).

    I think those are the big highlights for now. The most important is to get him eating, so please do call the vet to talk about anti-nausea treatment (others may weigh in here with more specific suggestions for meds, etc.).

    Welcome!
     
  3. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Hi Amber,
    The vet said it was given to cats for nausea and car sickness and she talked about some cortisone this morning but I don't think she did that. I had already thought about that 1½ U and that just feels wrong. I did find ProZinc page here, and the recommended start is ½ U and since she gave me pre drawn up syringes with 1½ so I could start right away. I can't let him be so sick another full 12 hours as our insulin won't be delivered to the pharmacy until after 4 tomorrow. Maybe just give a partial shot, like that will be easy! I can squirt a bit out. I don't want to go with the karo syrup routine my first evening. I am going to start putting finger tips of food in his mouth and then give him his first shot of hopefully ½ unit but certainly it will be less than 1½! Tomorrow Roger will pick up the insulin and then he can buy Pepcid AC - I know I have a bottle full here but it won't show up until next year December. My other cat was nauseated from her kidney failure and she got pepcid AC but need to find the dosage.
    Does this sound right? I know how at times the pain I am in messes with how I think out things. I suppose I should have put the first post on the ProZinc page? Since I never used insulin on Cessan after the first couple of days I wasn't used to finding the forum for the insulin! Hugs, Bonnie
     
  4. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bonnie,

    Just on a fly-past at the moment so this post is a bit brief but if you haven't already done so can I recommend you pop out to Walmart or a pharmacy to pick up some urine test strips (e.g. Keto-diastix or similar) and test your boy as soon as possible to see whether there are any ketones in his urine. I suggest this because he's showing classic signs of nausea and lurking near the food & water bowls. It's far safer to do the quick spot check for ketones to make sure they're negative than run the risk of DKA becoming an issue.

    Nan is spot-on about anti-nausea meds as well as the appy stimulant. If your boy is approaching the food bowl it shows he is hungry and wants to eat but he's showing classic symptoms of a nauseated cat. Treat the nausea and he may need little or no support from an appy stimulant going forward.

    Sorry I haven't time to write more.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
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  5. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Barring input from some of the ProZinc members (it's slow around here during the holidays, unfortunately), I think 1/2U is a good plan. One of the nice things about ProZinc that I do know is that it's an "in and out" insulin, meaning you can adjust doses a lot day-to-day without messing things up.

    The Pepcid will help if the problem is stomach acid, but it's not a general anti-nausea medicine. If he already has an anti-nausea "on board", though (did you catch the name?), maybe this will help by working on a different problem so it might be worth a try (make sure it's just plain famotidine).

    Is there any chance he might be constipated? Sometimes when they are "backed up" it can cause nausea, so if he hasn't pooped in a while it's something to ask your vet about as well.

    Totally agree about testing for ketones. Even if he was clear when he was at the vet, they can develop very very quickly in the current situation (diabetic not eating) so you'll want to keep a sharp eye out for that. The thing about ketones is that they are much easier (and less expensive!) to treat in early stages, before it gets to full-blown DKA.
     
  6. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Let me qualify this a bit: if there's any hint or history of ketones, you don't want to under-dose insulin, so that might change this assessment.

    Let's hope Oreo can keep things simple for us, though!
     
  7. donnalea

    donnalea Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Prozinc is a good insulin to start with. It is a slow acting gentle insulin that's made just for cats. 11/2 units does seem high for a starting dose. I would give my cat 1/2u. It's better to be too high than too low.

    Welcome back.
     
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  8. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Answering all at one time. The last thing I thought of was diabetes since I had tested but I think that he got worse fairly fast. The vet didn't test him for ketones. But I didn't have a diabetic thought in my head!! Even if I had ketones wouldn't have been there. All the years of nursing from VNA, hospital and family practice I had 1 diabetic patient! One of you suggested I run to Walmart. I must laugh as just this morning I said to Hubby, wish I could run to Walmart and get the equate allergy pills etc. We live in Sweden and the only thing we have open before 9 AM and after 5 or 6 pm are some grocery stores that open at 7 and close at 10. We can't even buy Tylenol or aspirin outside of the pharmacy. We don't have ANY of the cold tablets here even with a prescription. There is no anti-nausea medication for cats except car sickness pills which "sometimes" will help. So hubby came in to see if I had gotten a BS 322 by the way. I told him about Walmart and he said sure, give me all your spending money and a list and I will catch a plane but please remember I want to look around!!
    I got a bit over a TBL of food down him then the ½ U and he is now on my lap sound asleep with his head allergy, lungs clear, making him snore. So I type one handed with the keyboard on the arm of the chair. Good way to watch him!

    Can anyone tell me how to find out what all the stuff across the top of the spreadsheet means?
     
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  9. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
  10. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Strange things here and I am a bit lost. I gave Oreo his first ProZinc ½ U at 8 pm yesterday. I am still working out the spread sheet thing. He had been 372.6 at the vets. Since he hadn't eaten since Friday afternoon I was to offer food if he wouldn't eat wait until Close to insulin time test and it was 322. Then I managed to fingertip feed him about 1 tablespoon of food. Using that as the first entry? ½ U and +2½ 270. Day 12-28 262 I got ½ tsp food down him and used 1U +2 194.4 +7 199.8 Still hadn't eaten by self. Fingertip fed and got 2 tsp maybe 3 in him. He did have to lick off the food he squished on his chest. The feeding is making him hide out. I called the vet. My vet is off for the week, the one I had yesterday is off until next Friday so I got another one. She said that 144 or under skip the shot, get him to eat check the blood sugar again and if he was up like to 10 give him ½ U. If he was still up like at +7 give 1 U after I got food into him. But since the assisted feedings upset him so I should try just the feeding at 8 and 8 with the shots. She said I could try 1 in between mid morning and mid afternoon. Well he hid until 7:30 pm. I did trick him onto my lap and he doesn't mind me rubbing his ear. +11½ 144!! He is so upset being burrito wrapped that he got 3 tsp in and was fighting and pulling so that he was choking so I stopped. I am getting so little food in him that I worry about what I should do. Got the first bottle of ProZinc 10 ML - 97 dollars. How often should I attempt to feed him? The Vet said that as his Blood sugar goes down he will eat. I am afraid he has been traumatized out of eating being sick so many days. I was an idiot not to start feeding right away. He has slowed up his drinking, but that can be because he hid all day. I am so sorry writing War and Peace here! Thanks for checking.
     
  11. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Check for signs of nausea:

    Nausea & inappetence - symptoms and treatments

    If present then get hold of the vet ASAP to get an Rx for anti-nausea and appy stimulant meds (e.g. ondansetron and cyproheptadine - check with vet that liver is OK for cypro). They're human meds so if your vet doesn't have them you could get a written Rx and fill it at a regular pharmacy. Also ask about a course of B12 injections.

    Dehydration won't help with any nausea/appetite problems. Could you syringe some water (not ideal but it can help a lot). Be sure to go slowly and syringe from side to side across the tongue to prevent risk of aspirating fluid.

    Also with the poor thirst drive be sure to check urine ASAP to make sure ketones are still negative.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
    Reason for edit: Neglected to add link in original post: edited to add hyperlink.
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  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    PS: Is Oreo-Joe pooping regularly? Constipation can cause nausea and inappetence and a very short course of metoclopramide (Reglan) can help in this case but be sure to get a vet exam to make sure there's no GI obstruction or impacted faeces.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
  13. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Good advice from Mogs. A cat that isn't eating is scary, so basically you want to try anything and everything you can, and make sure you have a full arsenal of appropriate meds to use on this. Definitely best to be proactive about it before the holiday weekend, especially since, where you are living right now, you don't have a lot of quick access to supplies. It's a pain that you can't work with your regular vet, and it sounds like the substitute vet may not be taking this as seriously as you would like, but be persistent-- you are Oreo's advocate, and you know him best. It really seems like he's not feeling well right now and needs something to help him get back to eating.

    Sometimes it's just one little piece of the puzzle that is missing-- nausea is a very common reason for not eating, so a few tricks to address that could turn the little guy right around.
     
  14. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Here's a valuable document to use for discussions with vets:

    IDEXX Pancreatitis Guidelines

    While it may be focused on pancreatitis treatment, it gives details of which drugs are suitable for treatment of nausea and poor/no appetite which are applicable in general for cats with these clinical signs. IDEXX is about as authoritative a source as you can get for treatment recommendations.


    Mogs
    .
     
  15. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Sweden has no anti nausea meds other than for motion sickness for children. The closest vet is an emergency clinic 3 hours drive from here. We have virtually no OTC meds available, and no pharmacy service after hours. My husband was sick today but said no matter what he will go to the pharmacy at 9 when it opens. We live in the county. The vet said she was ordering a human pill that could stimulate the appetite and help with nausea. He will also get the ketone sticks although since he will not use a litter box that has not really filled, or if we can see him, or if there is anything like plastic wrap in it. We had to move the litter box from the bathroom to behind my bed. He checks to see we are not wandering around. Leaps in digs down 12 to 14 inches goes and almost before he is done leaps out and races out of the room. He goes through the bedroom, dining room and into the kitchen where I sweep up the litter that was still stuck to his paws. We can get a small litter box and set it in his large one and pour some dried peas but they are only sold in 2 cup size boxes and I doubt he will go if it is not deep. He is a cat with phobias. I talked to the vet regarding ketones and she said with his blood sugar down there was no worry. I know that most people either just let the cat die or put them down saying it is to much to do for them. I will go add more water to the fountain since he gets interested then. His gums are pink and damp, he is calmly laying on my lap and I am going to test again. Liver test was fine +13 158.4
     
  16. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    The fact that he has energy enough to zip from room to room and out-maneuver you on the litter box is actually a good sign! Cats who have elevated ketones usually feel pretty yucky and lethargic, so this makes me hopeful that it's not currently a problem (and, hopefully, not on the horizon, either!). That (very positive) note aside, it's not actually true that ketones require elevated numbers, so yes, please be vigilant until he gets back on his feet fully. The "recipe" for ketones/DKA is: not enough food + not enough insulin + some kind of infection/inflammation trigger, it's not really about BG numbers (though it's definitely more commonly seen alongside elevated BG).

    It's also very good that his gums are showing decent health and that his liver tests were good. Now we just have to get him eating again. You are a great caregiver for helping him through this! Once you can get him over this bout of inappetance, FD treatment really is very manageable.

    It's very frustrating that there aren't a lot of veterinary resources on offer for you. Did you happen to catch the names of the meds that are available? The link Mogs gave above has some low-tech tricks you can try-- elevating food and water so he doesn't have to duck his head is a good one.
     
  17. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    ... or other systemic stressor.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  18. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    It might be worth considering getting a blood ketone meter (e.g. on Amazon). You use it in the same way as a glucometer. They're incredibly helpful for monitoring ketones when urine testing is difficult/impossible.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  19. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    12-29-2017 127.8 got 3 Tbls of food in at 11 pm last night and barely 2 tsp full this morning. Oreo is drinking again, it was how his fountain was putting out water. Where he wanted to drink no water was flowing over that part! I cleaned it and put it back with cold water and he was amazed to find it working. He isn't slurping it down like a cat that crossed the desert but drank what I would expect a well cat to drink. He hasn't gotten any insulin. He is so good when I take his glucose test but he hates the assisted feeding. So he is hiding. I have found him sitting or laying an a small stool in the kitchen by the refrigerator. I did take a tiny piece of raw chicken out for him but while he looks he won't touch it.
    Just how often should I assist him with his food?
    The medication the vet ordered is Mirtazapin Alternova 15 mg 1/4 tablet every other day. So 48 hours between giving the pill. not to be given for longer than 10 days.

    The only litter box available in our little town could be used better as a dish pan. I am pretty sure he won't fit in the box to urinate in it. I am basically housebound and I go with Oreo to the vet and to doctor appointments only. I had to send a note explaining what I wanted and when the little red dish pan showed up I smiled and said, "Perfect!"
    Am off to find my baby and drop a 1/4 tab in his mouth and see if he starts to eat. If not will feed in 2 hours, maybe 3. But I would like a note on how often I should be assisting him. I don't believe the vet I spoke to yesterday really has much experience with diabetic felines. she told me it would help for me to bring him in to be hospitalized for 2 days and they would get him set up on a good diet and regulated. I said No there is no money for hospitals. We are living on 65% of what our pension should have been because we had to go on disability pension because of illnesses that didn't allow us to work. So we are paying it back! I said to her that Oreo Joe was on the perfect diabetic diet since spring of 2013. She said but while Mjau is ok I have a better one here. I said yeah Hills Science Diabetic dry food. Gave her a short lesson in being an obligate carnivore and we were already worried about dehydration. lol Some of what you all taught me years ago stuck and is sneaking out again.

    So # of feedings I should do per day. I guess if I get 3 tablespoons full in at one feeding the next doesn't have to be so soon. But I am thinking of the 2 tsp full I so often get. Will go pop his pill in. If only I could kneel and hold him with my knees but I can't kneel.
    Thanks all! Think I will lift him in the dishpan and see how stuck he gets.
     
  20. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bonnie,

    When you get a moment could you please post a list of all the medications you now have at home (anti-nausea, appetite stimulant, pain relief) and also the dose amounts (tablet size, amount of tablet to give at each dose) and how often you're supposed to give them (as prescribed by your vet).

    Also, can you give us a rough idea of how much food you're getting into Oreo Joe per day (total weight of food in each can plus the approx number of cans/partial cans per day he's managing to eat).

    It will help us to get a better idea of what is available if we can get all this info in one place on the thread.

    Sending more :bighug::bighug::bighug: for you and fusses for Oreo Joe.


    Mogs
    .
     
  21. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    1 can of food is 21 ounces - 600 grams not even 1 can since last week Friday.

    Mirtazapin Alternova 15 mg tab 1/4 tab every 48 hours for max of 10 days.

    Cerenia 16mg and broken to 1/4 tab once a day until he starts to eat.

    Buprenorphine I got 10 oral syringes that I am to give 3 a day 10 - 4- 10

    Oreo sees us and runs and hides. Neither of us can get on our knees and and he hides in the furthest corners under things we can't move. He has missed 2 feedings this evening. We couldn't find him anywhere. I can lock him in my room, there is no door so I had a friend make a screen door for my room. People are amazed as there is no such thing in Sweden.
    But he is so sad that I worry that would hurt him more. When we are in the living room, if he figures there are no syringes with food around he cuddles on my lap and never stops purring.

    The 2 tablets he gets I wonder if he gets any? I popped the Cerenia in followed by some water. I held his head and petted and cuddles but kept his mouth shut. I stroked his throat and he purred and when I let go he spit and foamed and saliva did the tablet go down or totally lost. The Mirtazapin I crushed and put in just enough water to melt it and then syringed it in but the same thing happened as with the Cerneia. How do you give it so it stays in.
    The Morphine she really fights but I put the syringe farther back in his throat and she does salivate a lot.
    When I walked in the LR and found him on the sofa I caught him and I placed him in front of his food dish with a bit of regular food with a dab of water like I have always given him. He put his nose down to the food and when I dipped my fingertip in and touched his nose he licked it and put his nose down to the food again. He looked so close to eating but them laid down as if he was the one exhausted from carrying me around. Is this a good sign??

    I keep thinking of the Vet telling me this morning that since he wasn't getting enough food and has gone so long without eating that his prognosis was not good.

    Please how do I get more food in him. He fights something fierce IF I can even find him.
    Thanks for any advice. his glucose is 66.6 I guess they are low as he isn't getting enough food.
     
  22. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Here's a good video showing how to pill a cat (vet explains the technique for opening the kitty's mouth really well):




    Wrapping Oreo Joe in a towel (kitty burrito) might help you keep him a little more controlled when you're trying to syringe food. Here's a very good video about how to assist feed:



    More hints and tips on assisted feeding in this forum post:

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/syringe-assisted-feeding-video-and-tips.144367/

    Sending more hugs.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
  23. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I always use the burrito wrap. He is still heavy for me and my muscles in my arms are so sore. I have pilled cats for years etc. What I mean was What do I do to stop the foaming and saliva running down over everything. My hands are covered in slime, the blanket is covered and it leaks down between the wrap and him and he has saliva down his white bib.
    Ok with the food I do the same but Oreo panics and again with my entire body of screaming muscles he wiggles, kicks in the wrap and throws his head back and forth like he is in the Exorcist. I get the 12 cc down but I know he needs more. So do I feed him every 30 min or do I feed 24 cc at a hourly feeding. I give him the feeding slowly so he will be swallowing and not fighting as much. It takes about 15 minutes to do that. But if he gets to wild I go faster.
    I will see the video's again anyway. I just want to know if your cats all foam and stuff so is he still getting the pills? If he were a kid I would put it in applesauce! Thanks.
     
  24. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Ok I got the answer in the feeding on how much. Not every hour but 4 times a day and 40 cc at a time. Our cat food while a pate' has grainy pieces in and no matter how long I blend it clogs up the syringe so I do add a bit of water. If I left Oreo's feet able to be loose he would be on the next plane from Stockholm. I tuck the feet in also and have to hold him on my lap. I feed him slowly like I said. Guess I need some more syringes. I have 3 and there is no way I can stop holding him and refill one. The entire time I feed him I cuddle, rub him in between the sips of food with 40 cc I can see I will be taking almost an hour to feed him. I am willing to take the 3½ or so hours a day to feed him. He will no way agree. I pray for him to decide standing by his dish and thinking about it will hit him that he should try it. I hold, cuddle kiss him and softly speak to him about what a good boy he is, what a big boy he is, how beautiful he is, when we are done he can sing to me etc. This will begin in the morning as it is 1:30 AM here and Oreo is gone. The pilling is the same as the feeding. I don't hold his head back as far as somewhere along the years of owning cats a vet maybe told me to take a tiny bit of food or water in my mouth then tip my head way back and try to swallow. I can't. It is harder for cats too. I do when I put it in and as soon as I close the mouth I lower the head to a good swallow position. IF he didn't foam and drool like he does I wouldn't be upset. He needs these pills. Good Night.
     
  25. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Some bitter-tasting tablets can make some kitties drool. This is what works for me:

    1. If space at home allows, choose a place that's going to be a 'pilling station' and only use that location for pill administration. This will make the kitty feel safer everywhere else and should reduce overall stress.

    2. Have the pill ready to go at your side, e.g. pop it onto a plate or into a small dish where you can pick it up easily.

    3. Have a syringe filled with water - about 5ccs - ready at your side so that you can wash down the pill.

    4. Get the kitty settled ready for giving the pill (wrapped in a towel if needed). Give calm fusses and praises but try to be confident and a little 'business-like' in your manner. This can be reassuring to the kitty: "Mama's on the case, and it's going to be OK!"

    5. With the pilling, tilting the kitty's head back enough is key to getting the pill to land at the back of the tongue so that it will go down quickly and the cat will be less likely to taste it and start drooling/frothing in response to any bitter taste. (Think about how a human has to really tilt the head back to gargle in the throat.)

    6. With the head in the right position and the jaws gently prised open looking down from above with a little bit of practice you can pop/drop the pill onto the back of the tongue.

    7. Immediately the pill is in gently hold the kitty's muzzle in the closed position with the chin slightly upwards. Gently massage the throat to encourage swallowing. Puffing a little breath onto the kitty's nose can also trigger swallowing.

    8. Straight away syringe about 5ccs of water into the kitty's cheek pocket to help the pill slide down into the stomach (and hopefully this might help with the drooling).

    9. Check around the area to make sure the pill isn't on your lap/on the floor before releasing the cat.

    10. Move the kitty away from the 'pilling area' and give kitty oodles of praise and fusses.

    Hope some of the above might give you a helpful idea or two.

    Keep an eye on colour of gums and whites of eyes. If you spot any yellowing call the vet for advice as soon as possible.

    :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
    Bonnie & Oreo Joe likes this.
  26. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    WRT hiding, try to use boxes/storage containers to temporarily block off potential hidey-holes.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  27. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Critter Mom likes this.
  28. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    OK I told you I didn't think this 2nd one was on top our vet cks it out and even studies it overnight and calls the next day. He has not gotten any in what she ordered as she told me to call a day after he got the pill and she said to hold off on it. I will wait until the 3rd day. He got it at 2 pm yesterday. I shave off a piece and lose 1 dose every tablet. no way to cut in 1/4th and the pill cutter crushes 2 doses!! Thank you So much for catching this. I must start looking up and questioning everything I am told to do!!
     
  29. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    What I would do is to crush a pill and then divide the resulting powder in 8 piles of the same amount
     
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