OTJ'ers - How Long Did it Take for your cat to go into remission?

Discussion in 'Honeymooners / OTJ' started by Ozzy Pawzbourne, Dec 16, 2016.

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  1. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Hi There- My kitty was just diagnosed with diabetes after being admitted to the hospital with DKA a few weeks ago. It was a frightening experience for all as I am sure you can imagine. He is home now and doing well and we are still trying to figure out his proper insulin dosing. I am still learning at lot about FD, especially from this board, and wanted to get some feedback from those of you who have luckily gotten your kitties into remission.

    Few questions below:
    1. Did your cat ever go into DKA? My vet said it's less likely for a kitty to go into remission if it suffered from DKA, so wondering if any of your cats beat these odds?
    2. What kind of insulin was your cat on? Specifically, did any of your kitties go into remission on Vestulin?
    3. How long did it take for your kitty to go OTJ?
    4. What do you think was the contributing factor(s) that helped kitty get into remission?
    I noticed this part of the forum is not as active and does not have as many posts as other areas. I'm hoping this isn't because there are not a lot of kitties going into remission and it's more because there are a LOT of kitties going into remission and less advice is needed here.

    Thanks for any feedback!
     
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  2. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Hello and first bit of advise I can offer is "every cat is different" what works on one may not on another. Magellan I believe was a diabetic for sometime before it was diagnosed but more diet controlled. What threw him was he ended up with a kidney/bladder infection compiled with the stress of having to find a new home. His insulin started out with Novalin a very fst harsh med that sent him into hypo very quickly and caused him to become hyper sensitive to insulin. With this and against the vet advise I changed him to Lantus and got serious with the sugar dance. It was just over 6 months before he was fully off the juice that with 2 other attempts and failures to go otj. What I believed help Magellan get better was persistence, consistent testing, the wonderful angels here and of course Magellan. I also know that Magellan is still diabetic he will always be diabetic but he is diet controlled and anything can tip him back into needing insulin again.
     
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  3. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Thank you for your response, Julia Rae. Your Magellan looks a lot like my Ozzy. I love the ginger tabbys! :cat:

    Ozzy is on vestulin which I understand is also a fast harsh med. It has only been 16 days for us but after everything I am reading, I am wondering if we should switch to one of the L insulins as well. Good for you for being so proactive for your kitty's health! I asked in one of my earliest posts if anyone has gone against their vets advice, and you are the first person to respond YES.

    You mentioned that Magellan is diet controlled now. Can you tell me more about what you used to feed him and what you feed him now? And how much do you feed him? I know this differs for all cats, but just asking for reference. Also, was he overweight before? My Ozzy was and still needs to lose about 1-2 pounds (he lost about 3-4 lbs with the diabetes/DKA). He was 15.6 lbs when we left the vets 16 days ago. Did Magellan ever go into DKA? I think my kitty also was diabetic for a lot longer than we realized and it was only with the DKA episode that we learned about it. We are doing regular home testing now, too.

    Both my Hubby and I love your kitty's name- Magellan!
     
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  4. MerMor

    MerMor New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2016
    1. I don't know. The vet mentioned ketones but didn't seem super concerned.
    2. ProZinc
    3. 12 days. 14 days OTJ now.
    4. Food. Changed to low-ish carb wet foods immediately and took matters into my own hands as far as dosing. When Merlin wouldn't eat I force fed him. Tried TR at the end and I think that let his pancreas and liver learn the "new" normal fairly quickly.
     
  5. gavroche

    gavroche New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    I am no longer the owner of a diabetic cat, but for those just starting the insulin process, I have some advice that I learned through specialists. My Siamese was seriously ill because of the Science Diet dry food he had always eaten (thought I was doing the right thing). No amount of insulin will help if a cat continues to eat dry food, no matter what it says on the label. My vet didn't have a clue, and my cat's insulin was up to 10 twice a day. I read Dr. Hodgkins' book, YOUR CAT, gave away all dry food, started feeding only the PATE type Friskies canned food, and he started going into remission almost immediately, so it's really important to keep checking his glucose level every other day or so to avoid too much insulin. I used a human meter and strips and found it to work just as accurately as a pet meter. I don't remember what kind of insulin I used, but within a few months, he was in complete remission and needed no insulin for the rest of his life. He lived 6 more years and died at 17! The secret is simply in the food (cut those carbs), and it didn't take an outrageously priced special type. I remember being so frantic and not getting answers, so I'm hoping this will help you. Reminder: Get rid of that dry stuff and never let kitty ever eat it again. I even used only treats that were freeze dried (online), so contained no carbs. Let us know how kitty does at some point! Good luck !
     
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  6. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    I'm actually the owner of a second diabetic cat now that is not in remission. But I'll answer your questions for Rosa, who did go OTJ and remained there the rest of her life even through other health issues.

    1. No DKA and we never saw a positive test for ketones either, even at initial diagnosis with a reading of 680!
    2. Lantus. It was the only option offered by our vet at the time.
    3. Almost exactly 3 months from diagnosis to her last insulin shot.
    4. I think Rosa's remission was down to more than one factor. We did catch the diabetes early - she had a completely 'clean' blood work in September of 2014, but was diagnosed diabetic with a glucose of 680 in early January 2015 after we noticed that she had lost a significant amount of weight in just a couple of weeks. We will never know what triggered such a sudden onset at such high numbers, but she had been a dry food addict all her life until that point so it might just be that her system reached 'breaking point' with the carbs. We switched to all wet, low carb food within a couple of days. And I regulated her glucose tightly once I got to grips with home testing and knew that I could get a test from her successfully every time. None of it would have been possible without the wonderful people on this board - initially the vet we saw prescribed double the correct dose of insulin for Rosa's weight, didn't want me to home test, wanted her on an rx food that was too high in carbs and didn't want me to regulate her too tightly. The people here talked me through every step of the process, explaining why it was so important for me to make changes to the vet's recommendations until I was confident in managing dose changes, low numbers etc myself.
     
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  7. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016

    WOW! What a great story. Such a shame about the vet. That's awful. I know FD is so common yet I keep hearing story after story of vets who overprescribed the insulin and didn't want folks to home test. Our vet also prescribed Ozzy 2 U of vestulin (was supposed to be 3! but they changed it last minute before we walked out the door). Even 1.25U has been too much for him by lowering his BG dramatically and quickly.

    Good for you for taking control and yes, I absolutely agree that the folks on this board are wonderful; they have been of immeasurable support to me thus far. Thank you for sharing your story. Hope all is well with your other kitty!
     
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  8. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Thank you! Yes, your story is helpful and encouraging. We did switch Ozzy to all wet food the second we got home. It took him a few days after returning from the hospital and suffering DKA for him to start to feel a little better again. We are just starting the sugar dance, so a little overwhelmed with all the info and things to look out for. I really appreciate you sharing your story and hope for my kitty, too. Thank you!
     
  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Just took a peak at Ozzy's SS (he's so handsome....very much like my first kitty, a ginger boy named Tuffy!) It looks like Ozzy is metabolizing the insulin very quickly and by+6 post shot, his BG is well on it's way back up and then he really speeds upward by +8. Some cats can get a decent duration from Vetsulin but most don't. Now that said, part of what you are seeing with those high AMPS/PMPS readings could be some bouncing. Diabetic cats tend to get "comfortable" at higher number so when there is a hefty drop in the BG by +4 post shot, the liver starts panicking and it perceives BG is going too low and pumps out hormones to release glucagon into the system to the BG back up to what it now perceives a normal. That may be part or a significant part of what you are seeing right now.

    It's early days and this sugar dance is a marathon rather than a sprint. As Ozzy gets more accustomed to lower numbers, you may see his AMPS/PMPS settle down a bit. I wouldn't give up on Vetsulin yet unless you are seeing other signs that perhaps Vetsulin is not the right insulin for him. Keep tabs on his energy level, his general demeanour in comparison to his normal, any lethargy, sleeping more etc. All of these other clinical signs are important to monitor. It's not just about the numbers.

    I would encourage you to post over on the Vetsulin forum for more opinions on your best course of action. There was a period of time when there were so few Vetsulin users that a separate forum didn't seem necessary anymore but the numbers are growing again now so we are trying to re-boot the forum. It's a small but very friendly group and all will benefit from having a community of Vetsulin users who can share experiences, observations and learn from one another. :)
     
  10. Julia Rae

    Julia Rae Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    No Magellan was never DKA thanks god! What I fed Magellan is the same I feed now, that is friskies pate's as well as fancy feast pate's. With two cats eating if it was friskies they got a whole can in the morning and evenings. Fancy feast they each got a can both am and pm. Yes Magellan was profoundly over weight he weighed in at 27 lbs, right now he is 18 lbs and I am still working to get more of that fat off of him. His sisters name is bright eyes and his brother (ga) T.C I called him Grumman after the jet interceptor. That is not a surprising discovery as I am positive that Magellan was as well.

    Going against a vet's advise is very hard but do what you believe you need to do. Face it you know your cat far better than the vet!
     
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  11. Owen & Ceci

    Owen & Ceci Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    1. No, luckily he never did, despite of being with 400+ glucose levels for more than 4 months (those months I tried a new dry food by recommendation of the vet, which was Royal Canin Diabetic... expensive and useless, I didn't know by that time about the carbs % and how bad dry food is, and I also tried with glipizide pills, since any of that worked the only choice left was insulin)
    2. He was on Caninsulin (Vetsulin) at first, for 2 weeks, but it didn't work at all. The switched to Lantus for only 2 weeks more, and after that he went into remission
    3. With the switch to a wet low carb food diet + Lantus insulin, he went into remission in 1 week only.
    4. The change to a wet low carb food diet mainly, without a doubt. And of course, Lantus insulin helped to put his pancreas back to work again
    Finally I have to say that this forum and its people saved my kitty Owen. Here is where I learnt about how bad dry food is for a cat, and also knew about which is the most suitable insulin for cats. Those two things, like I mentioned before, wet low carb food diet + proper insulin made possible my cat to go into remission :cat:
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
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  12. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Wow, what an amazing story. I really hope my kitty can go into remission like your Owen. He is so cute BTW!

    Ozzy is on vestulin now and also was switched over to low carb wet food. So we are sugar dancing now and will see how things go!

    Thanks for sharing your story. It gives people like me with newly diabetic cats some hope! ;)
     
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  13. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Cute name for a kitty. I actually work for that company! What a coincidence. :p
     
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  14. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    1. Did your cat ever go into DKA? My vet said it's less likely for a kitty to go into remission if it suffered from DKA, so wondering if any of your cats beat these odds?

    Yes, Alex went into DKA a day after the diabetes diagnosis. She was incredibly sick (she looked to be knocking on death's door), was treated and hospitalized for almost a week, and then we started insulin at home. She went into remission 3 months later.

    2. What kind of insulin was your cat on? Specifically, did any of your kitties go into remission on Vestulin?


    No vetsulin.
    After surviving DKA she was started on Lantus and went into remission 3 months later. She remained diet-controlled for almost 3 years before a simple case of gingivitis put her back on the juice.

    3. How long did it take for your kitty to go OTJ?


    The first time on Lantus - 3 months. Remained OTJ for almost 3 years.
    The second time on Levemir - 2 months. Remained OTJ for 5 months before severe liver disease and an acute renal crisis knocked her out of remission a second time.

    4. What do you think was the contributing factor(s) that helped kitty get into remission?


    a. learning to test her blood sugar at home
    b. testing her urine for ketones at the slightest hint that she wasn't feeling well, feeling "off", and/or decreased appetite
    b. fed a high protein - low carb wet diet exclusively
    c. aggressively treating with insulin
    d. followed a Tight Regulation Protocol

    You can get a good idea of Alex's story from her 2006 - 2014 spreadsheets (linked in my signature). She never developed DKA a second time and over the years, actually did very well diabetes-wise. Liver disease, kidney disease, & pancreatitis took their toll on her as she aged, but it was cancer that took her in the end.

    Think positive! Many kitties survive DKA and go on to live happy lives. Some of them will even go OTJ!
    Good luck!
     
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  15. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Thank you Jill. Wow, I was a little overwhelmed by how many medicines and supplements you had to give Alex. I'm so sorry she is no longer with you. It's obvious how much you loved her and gave her such an amazing kitty life!
     
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  16. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Alex was an amazing cat and quite the fighter.
    She lived every one of her "9 lives" to the fullest!
     
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  17. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    1. No, thankfully.

    2.yep, my kitty was on Vetsulin. I was worried at first because several people on here told me it wasn't the best choice, but it worked out great for us. If you go to the vetsulin forum there is a stickies post with several vetsulin user stories.

    3. 3 months and 3 weeks.

    4. Very low carb diet - little ff or Friskies twice a day, and free fed young again zero carb food. Within a few weeks of starting this diet her numbers improved drastically. Being home over the summer I was able to test frequently, 5-8 times a day. I got to know how she would react to each dose and gradually get her down. The spreadsheet and data made it possible to predict what her responses would be with very few surprises.
     
  18. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    This is very helpful. Thank you. I will check out the vestulin stickies you mentioned and also sneak a peak at your SS. Hope your beautiful gray kitty stays OTJ! Thanks for sharing!
     
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  19. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Janet, I checked out CC's SS and it was so awesome to see her getting well before my eyes. I reviewed your whole SS and all your comments. You are a funny girl, too Janet!!! :woot:

    CC started out with really high numbers, even higher than Ozzy's. I also noticed that you had her on 2-3 U of vestulin. That's what the vet originally prescribed Ozzy but we have never been able to give him more than 1.5U because he crashes fast and hard - sometimes 150-250 points in just the first 2 hours. He is just now starting to get some friendlier safer drops and he also just had his first 2 yellow preshots (crossing fingers for a yellow tonight, too!). I laughed at your "hello first blue" comment.... I hope we see similar success with vestulin and possible remission with Ozzy. Thank you for sharing your story and giving us a little hope! :bighug:
     
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  20. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    I didn't home test the first 6 weeks she was diagnosed. I wish I had, she could have improved even sooner, but I'm so grateful to the folks in this board for encouraging me and teaching me how to do it. So she was quite high for a while. She started on just 1 unit that first 6 weeks. When the vet raised the dose from 1 to 2 u (I did 1.5 at first because I was afraid of such a large increase) I got nervous and started testing.
     
  21. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Shadow took exactly 100 days...
     
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  22. Jamye and Fred

    Jamye and Fred Member

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    Feb 19, 2015
    Fred was on Lantus 4 months. I home tested, still do. We practiced tight regulation protocol ( search the board for it) ... He had a pancreatitis issue in the 4th month which kick started remission. The key for Fred was/ is low carb, high protein canned food ( originally Friskies and Fancy Feast, but now Nulo, which has no carrageenan which is bad and caused him to have inflamed bowel in Oct). I'm about to post re his celebration of 18 months of remission, today!
     
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  23. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    Congrats to Jayme and Fred! This is a great story and is encouraging others!:D:cat:
     
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  24. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    LOVED Shadow's video! Very cool!:joyful:
     
  25. sherrib

    sherrib Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    I am actually here to ask questions about "falling " out of remission. I saw ur post and thought I would tell how long it took us

    One day! Actually within a hour or so once I switched skittles from his dry science diet dry MD his BG dropped so fast I had to rush him to his vet. This happened to us because I did not wean onto canned low carb ( I feed Friskies 99% of the time , because I am feeding two cats and the brand fancy feast is just too small of a can )

    I started skittles on Friakers on Nov 24 and the afternoon of Dec 5 he was in remission and within 2 weeks of remission his neuropathy was gone.

    Skittles is my second cat that's gone into remission with the help of this awesome group and switching to canned low carb food.

    Unfortunately skittles has a infected tooth ( only bad thing about can food, cant keep tartar buildup on teeth ) and his BG has went very high. He is on meds for his tooth, I can not afford to have it pulled right now ) He had to get get his first dose of insulin this morning. He got 1 unit. And within 2 hours his BG dropped to 126 and he has been holding. He didn't need his PM dose and I'm hoping he won't need his AM or any more actually!
     
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  26. Ozzy Pawzbourne

    Ozzy Pawzbourne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2016
    @sherrib Wow. What a great story! Hope skittles high BG will back down and he'll stay OTJ permanently. Good luck! Thanks for sharing!
     
  27. sherrib

    sherrib Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2015
    You are welcome! He got 1 unit this morning and didn't need his PM dose
     
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  28. HereKittyKittyKitty

    HereKittyKittyKitty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2016
    1. No DKA that I know of. But my cat's blood glucose when diagnosed was 450 if I remember right.

    2 and 3. I was using the (relatively) cheap N from Walmart. We didn't even get through one vial before the cat went into remission (Thank You Jesus). I think it took about 3 weeks after I switched to the super low carb 9 Lives non-fish pates (Chicken, Turkey, Liver/Beef (now discontinued), and Liver/Bacon. It was actually quicker, but there has to be 2 weeks without insulin for it to be "official." It wasn't on purpose... the vet said the cat had to eat at least 2 tablespoons of food before that cat could get his insulin, but he wouldn't eat that much at one time so I couldn't give him his insulin. The vet wanted me to shoot 2 units 2 x a day blind, and then go back to the vet after a couple of months... he recommended against monitoring because he had only had one client successfully do it, but because my Godfather died from complications of diabetes I knew how important it was. While looking online to find out how to do it, I found this site (thank you sooooooo much for being here).

    4. The cat went into remission because of the food change (Thank You, Jesus!)
     
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  29. ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer

    ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    1. Did your cat ever go into DKA? My vet said it's less likely for a kitty to go into remission if it suffered from DKA, so wondering if any of your cats beat these odds?...NO
    2. What kind of insulin was your cat on? Specifically, did any of your kitties go into remission on Vestulin? Elliott began on NPH per DVM ordsr..After much consultation and researchm he started LANTUS 4 weeks after diagnosis. I am not familiar with Vetsulin.
    3. How long did it take for your kitty to go OTJ?.... 4 months
    4. What do you think was the contributing factor(s) that helped kitty get into remission? LANTUS and FDMB members absolutely. NPH action was fast but half-life very short. NPH was not consistent and the short action did not allow a sustained period for Elliott's body (pancreas) to rest or heal. It is my belief that the more ups and downs of insulin vs glucose just disrupts the body's ability to sustain a healing process. For me, there is no doubt that Lantus and the wonderful FDMB members helped Elliott succeed into Remission!!!
     
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  30. Sam and Billy

    Sam and Billy New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    What does OTJ stand for?
     
  31. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Off the juice.
     
  32. Sam and Billy

    Sam and Billy New Member

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    Jan 31, 2017
    Thank you!
     
  33. SweetAngel

    SweetAngel Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2014
    1. no
    2. caninsulin (vetinsulin) from end of May 2014-16th July 2014. Prozinc from 16 July 2014 until first remission. Last dose 12th Sept 2014. Prozinc 5th Nov 2016 until 2nd remission, last dose 10th December.
    3. first time 3.5 months. Remained in remission for over 2 years then went for dental surgery and bg was up. However he was back in remission in 5 weeks so don't lose hope!
    4. did see an improvement in numbers on caninsulin though better with prozinc. Fed (and continue to feed) only very low carb food, nothing above about 7% carbs.
    Angel's details, meant to put this on top but was already formatted
     
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  34. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    1. No
    2. Began with Novolin...used it for 2 months and switched to Lantus.
    3. 8 months...
    4. She would've gone into remission sooner if I had switched her to all canned food. Learned how to home test right away. Started her on Lantus. Found this group and manxcat419!! And used tight regulation. Once I did all of that??? It took her two months! :) She's been in remission for 16 months! :)
     
  35. Lillie

    Lillie Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2017
    No DKA
    Prozinc- at vets dosage was 2U then 2 1/4U. At home I reduced to 1.5U after home testing
    2-3 weeks
    eliminated all dry food before curve done at vets. weight loss was needed so I believe him losing weight also helped. Fed canned grain free single ingredient pate only.
    Specialist feels it may have been a transient diabetes but still need to check weekly for levels and water consumption.
     
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