Poe's Numbers- Advice Please -

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by KarensPoe, May 27, 2013.

  1. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
     
  2. Simon'sMommy

    Simon'sMommy Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Although I am not an expert, since he is rising and not falling, I think two hours for the next test is fine unless he seems off to you in any way. Just make sure to NOT give him any insulin and just let him eat the way he normally does. My kitty never scarfs down food either. He kind of grazes and comes back to it every once in a while which can be maddening and make me worry after I give him his shot.

    I am glad that you took my advice and started a new thread. Hang in there and I am here if you need anything and I will try my best to help if I can. As I said, I don't know much about Lantus, but I do know that your numbers are in the safe range but still should be monitored closely.
     
  3. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    No, feed him what he will eat. Let him graze since that is his current eating style. Take the food up the normal 2 hours before the pre-shot. With out extra insulin from a shot, no need to be concerned about a hypo.

    That tells you there is more insulin available to help process the food, he is not starving all the time, his pancreas is healing and he is doing much better.

    Agree, No sense in doing a curve today. Since you did not give any insulin, you would not gather any useful data.

    How are the 5P's today? peeing, pooping, purring, preening and playing?

    Keep an eye out for a bounce later today. We'll go from there.

    Woo-hoo! Poe is feeling better! Yeah!!!!! Go Poe.
     
  4. Simon'sMommy

    Simon'sMommy Well-Known Member

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    May 10, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    thank goodness! Deb is here now so I can rest easy. I was out of my element here but hoping someone who knows something more than newbie me would come on soon. I am glad that Poe is doing so well. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
     
  5. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    His peeing/pooping have significantly reduced from the pre-diagnosis. Bowel movements average once a day...normal looking..solid...and peeing maybe twice a day...puddles smaller than my fist or so. I clean the cat box usually twice a day so I can see whats going on. Looking back, before his asthma attack, he was really filling the litter box...and then started pooping outside of it...now I know why.

    I use minimal dust clumping litter, so we're good there.

    He grooms himself after every meal...meaning after every time he eats...even if its not all of it. He's been very playful and frisky for days now. He purrs alot...the more I pet him the more he purrs.

    When he lays down with me at night to go to bed, he's purring, and pawing at my face for attention.

    He wakes me early to eat...usually by pawing at my face or squeaking at me.
     
  6. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Should I do a AMBG +2 still?
     
  7. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Simon's mommy, You did a wonderful job, especially the suggestion to start a new thread with the 911 icon. Except for the administrators and board supervisors, those 911's buried in a post do not show up for us plain folks unless we read the entire thread.

    Karen, Poe's mommy - Since you are needing to skip so many shots, you need to drop that 1U dose down to no more than 0.5U for the PMPS shot and all future shots for at least a while.

    We want to find a dose that you can give consistently every 12 hours. Thank you so much for home testing. Without being able to see those numbers on your spreadsheet, there is now way I would have been able to tell you what to do. You are doing great with getting some tests in.

    DO NOT shoot tonight if the PMPS is <200. DO NOT feed if the PMPS is < 200. Get the test done, post here and wait for advice. We may need to 'stall' or hold the food and insulin for a bit. We may be ok to shoot and feed. Don't know until the evening and those numbers come.

    So stall, tonight. Would you do that please?

    I have to get ready for work. I'll pop back on to check before I leave. I work in a retail store but may have some time to log on and check today. It all depends on how busy the tiny store is today.

    With the holiday weekend here in the US, things may be quieter than normal on all the forums. Please be patient with us today ok?

    p.s. Thank you so much for that WCR or whole cat report as we call it. The 5 P's plus the appetite tell us how a cat is doing and it sounds like Poe is improving by leaps and bounds. Fantastic!!!
     
  8. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    On the +2 AMBG test, only if you want to.
     
  9. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    No problem on the stalling tonight. I will head over to walmart soon to get more strips...almost out now. Besides the PM test, should I test anytime before that or give him a break?
     
  10. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Go ahead and give Poe a break. Since no insulin this am, you will only see an expected rise, aka bounce, up to higher numbers. I don't think it will add any useful information to the spreadsheet.

    We've already learned that he needs a reduction, because of the frequent skipped doses.

    Someone else may chime in and disagree about no more tests this AM, but that is the great thing about this board, varied opinions and peer review. ;-) We are all always learning something new.

    After PMPS tonight, we'll reevaluate. I think a +2 is very useful information, especially on a dose change. Also, a "before bed test", just before you head off to sleep, to see how Poe is trending is very useful. Many cats drop lower at night.

    We will probably have you hold this reduced 0.5 dose for a minimum of 6 cycles or 3 days. Maybe a bit longer if the bounce lasts longer, like a typical 72 hours. We need the bounce to clear before we know how well a dose change is working.

    A number under 50 always breaks the rule of holding for 3 days.

    Gotta go. Work calls.
     
  11. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Since you didn't give him insulin, how about taking only 2 tests before PM. You decide what time you want to test.

    Regarding food consumption - when Maui started this dance, she could eat 2-3 cans of Fancy Feast at one time. As her BG's leveled out, her need for food dropped to 1 - 2 cans at a time and sometimes only one can.

    So, if he isn't eating as much as he did in the beginning, that is a good thing, it means his body doesn't need it and he is starting to level out. All good things!
     
  12. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Perfect ! Thank you all so much...we are both getting a vacation day today..lol I'm off to Walmart for the strips.

    I'll be keeping this board open all day.

    Thanks again :)
     
  13. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    more fun this morning, sorry I missed it! I expected Poe to go back up last night so am surprised he is green. Wonder what today will bring.

    I know you have been following your vets advice. you certainly will have a LOT to tell her tomorrow! ie 1 unit is too much and it looks like its lasting up to 24hours in his system. I like Debs idea of trying 0.5IU to see if that means you can dose more consistently. Will be interesting to see what the vet has to suggest about dose.

    Wendy
     
  14. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I was expecting him to be in the pink too...so at half asleep when I did the first test and it came in at 87...I was like..ummm nooo way...wake up and do it again...

    So I got a fresh strip...poked him...poor guy..he jerked this time...might have been from my uneasiness and clumsiness...and ugh he really bled..but the test read 98.

    So I fed him...and it took him about 3+ hours to eat it all. My next test will be at AMBG +7...and then another at AMGB +10.

    Hes playful...having a catnap kinda day...purring at the slightest touch lol

    I have a can of Albacore tuna...its tuna, water, and salt with pyrophosphate...good til Aug 2014. I hate tuna...is it safe for him as a treat now and then?

    Thanks
     
  15. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Maybe get a +6 instead of a +7 since thats a blank column on your sheet and it will help to fill in the data.
     
  16. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    oh and can you remove the 911 from the first post. crisis is passed.
     
  17. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    ok a little past a +6 about 10 min passed is 133 Just tested
     
  18. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    He is on his way back up. He will probably bounce high due to the low numbers he just had. Don't panic, He will come back down.

    Tonite remember - no food for two hours prior to shot.
    Then:
    If he is over 200, give the 0.5IU that was discussed yesterday.
    If he is under 200, do not feed, do not shoot. Come back here and post and then retest in 30 mins.

    Wendy
     
  19. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Anymore testing prior to the PMBG?
     
  20. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Up to you.
     
  21. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Just did a AMBG +10...came out at 125. I had given him a couple of tblspns of food about 2 hours ago
     
  22. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Ok looks like you might be heading for a low PMPS. Get a test at +11 so we can prepare and look for support.

    how are is your strip/lancet stock? And do you have gravy cat food and syrup?

    Some pre reading if you havent read already: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=147

    Wendy
     
  23. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Im fully stock on strips and lancets. I have honey...and Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken Feast...3 cans of it

    I was excited ..now I'm scared...are we looking at a hypo?
     
  24. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Not at all.. what we might be looking at is "101 -learning to shoot at low numbers" and "beginners guide to feeding the curve". If she is under or near 200 at PMPS we will be asking an experienced member to stay up with you and test tonite. You might not get a lot of sleep - or at least broken sleep with intermittent testing.. are you up for it?

    You have had to skip a few times because numbers were low but I suspect you will need to learn how to shoot at lower numbers so you can keep momentum - her numbers are so good I think the more we can shoot consistently the better!! I have hopes for her!

    Wendy
     
  25. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I can do what needs to be done tonight....been about 20 years since I had to be up and down at night for anyone lol

    Am I still looking at the 1/2 unit of what I was doing initially?
     
  26. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Thanks, Simon's Mommy. You did great! :thumbup

    As Wendy said, no need to be scared. We're just making sure you're fully stocked on supplies in case he is below 200 at PMPS tonight and you decide to shoot the .5u. It might be a completely uneventful night, but because we don't have the data to tell us that for sure, it's better to be prepared than scared. ;-)
     
  27. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    1/2 at the most. I am almost thinking 1/4. And only if he is over 200. I am going to ask an experinced person to come have a look.

    Wendy
     
  28. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Aw, come on Wendy and give yourself some credit. You're pretty darned experienced. :lol:
     
  29. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I'm trying to understand this...so if he is at 200 or less, I am going to be advise to shoot him anyway (.5)?

    In my "new to kitty diabetes" mind...my thinking is that we are "helping" HIS insulin take over from the man made by shooting him anyway?...I am reading the link you posted...I think my mind is spinning a bit now...but I'll keep reading.
     
  30. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    If he is at 200 or less pre-shot, don't feed, don't shoot, but post here first for advice.

    Depending on how comfortable you are with testing and how late you might be able to stay up tonight and/or how late you might be able to shoot tomorrow's dose, we'll either have you stall his shot a half hour or so to see if he tops 200 or have you give a shot of either .5u or .25u. Again, this depends on your level of comfort since you're the one holding the syringe.

    For cats who are heading toward remission or have a sputtering pancreas (which very well might be the case here), I've found it easier to think of the insulin acting almost like using the choke on a motorcycle: you're give their body a little extra "fuel" (aka insulin) to jump-start their pancreas when it's having trouble doing it on its own.
     
  31. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    ok next test in about 20 min which will be AMBG +11....wow...this feels like critical countdown...so glad to have you all here with me...I am prepared to do what it takes..I have plenty of coffee if necessary.

    Im also fortunate that my job is flexible..so no issues about testing through out the night.
     
  32. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Deep breaths!

    Possibly - thats where the experienced member comes in to help. Many of us do it all the time - I regularly shoot at 50 - but I have enough data to know how my cat will behave and his trends so I know when to worry and how to handle things.

    Over time your kitty will get into normal numbers. To maintain momentum you will need to learn to shoot at these lower numbers. And learn what to expect when you do shoot and how to handle it. Gradually we reduce your "do not shoot" number.

    For now - dont feed for two hours before his shot time. Lets get that +11.

    Then at shot time, test but dont feed and dont shoot if he is under 200. Post here for advice and test again in 30minutes.

    Wendy
     
  33. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    AMGB +11 is 131
     
  34. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Ok, just to confirm, when did you last feed? We don't want food in this equation yet.

    Wendy
     
  35. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Okay, at shot time, he'll most likely be around that or only slightly higher. I don't think he's going to make it to 200 in an hour. ;-)

    At this point, it is up to you to decide if you want to stall till he reaches 200 (which might be a couple of hours, might be more). Since he has a "rising number" and you'll be able to stay up all night if need be, I would personally give at least .25u (probably even .5u) to see how he does. Remember, this is the first time you'll be "shooting low," so it's up to you what you feel comfortable doing. I'll be here off-and-on throughout the day and night (I'm on Pacific time, so that means really late at night for you :lol: ) so you don't have to worry about going it alone. Plus, I'm sure there will be others about as well to help you and check in on you if you need it.
     
  36. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Kay, I am getting Marje or someone over here to advise. Given his numbers I don't feel comfortable having her shoot unless they chip in.

    Wendy
     
  37. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Does stalling help him become less dependent on the insulin? If that's the case, then absolutely..I'm all for it...I can pull the all nighter..the worst part will be listening to him scream at me to eat :lol:

    So..next test at PMPS (or BG at this point) right?
     
  38. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Last food consumption was about about 3 hours ago now...only a couple of tblspns
     
  39. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    We would rather stall and shoot, than not shoot at all because the more we can give insulin, the more support his pancreas gets. Saying that we don't want to shoot if he is too low, or looks like he will go too low.

    Next test is PMBG(or maybe PMPS- u got it right!) but just test and let us know. No feeding or shooting. I asked Marje to take a look and advise and also posted on the tight regulation forum where all the experienced guys live. Someone should be here soon to help out.

    FYI those last two numbers are pretty much the same given meter variance.

    Wendy
     
  40. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    OK....I am sitting here...he's next to me..we are both excited I think...or scared...I dunno :mrgreen:

    About 40 min til next test...I'll keep refreshing board for new replies

    Thanks
     
  41. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Yes, next test at PMBG (at this point).

    All stalling does is make sure it's safe for you to shoot. We prefer new members to not shoot under 200 when first starting out until you know how your cat will react. After a couple of weeks of consistent dosing every 12 hours where the cat doesn't drop too low on the dose (i.e. below 50 on a human meter) and/or a few skipped shots due to pre-shot numbers below 200 but above 150, we usually recommend dropping the "no shoot" number to 190. Then, eventually to 180 and then 170, etc.... That's where the "Shooting low numbers" Sticky comes into play.

    In your case, you've been giving 1u every other day. This is too high a dose since you can't give it consistently twice a day. Since you haven't given any shot now since Yesterday's AMS (the Lantus depot is empty) and you're going to be giving a reduced dose (either .5u or .25u), you might not see much of an impact. Because he's newly diagnosed, however, you might also see a steep drop again. Since even when you were shooting the 1u it was taking a while before you'd see the impact on his numbers, I have a feeling it'll probably be an uneventful night, but it might be a busy day tomorrow because he might be below 200 at his AMPS again, even on the reduced dose.

    Basically, 131 is a nice number, if a little higher than we prefer for for cats with no insulin on board. We don't want him jumping to the 300s again and giving a token dose of insulin should hopefully prevent that from happening. The more time we can get Poe to spend in lower numbers, the higher the chance his pancreas has of healing and producing the proper amount of insulin on its own again.

    Remind me again about the food: he's completely off dry and on only low carb at this point or are you in the process of transitioning him? (It's been a busy few days for me and my memory is shot :lol: )
     
  42. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Ok so I spoke to Marje and she isn't available. But she said the most would be 0.25IU, and we would definately need to get a +1 and +2 and then be watchful after that. Which means you would have to come here often, test and pay close attention to instructions right? Lots of coffee ;)

    Anyway let's see if anyone else pops up and then it's up to you. I will be here and we should have more people around later if we need help. Kay, can you be around tonite too?

    For now, let's see where he is at Preshot time and we can go from there.

    Wendy
     
  43. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    He's off dry....almost 2 weeks now, before I started any insulin. The emergency clinic visit with asthma discovered the diabetes...and I started researching it right away. He tested in the 480's at the emergency clinic...the next day was his last of dry food...so as of May 14. May 18 was his first visit to a regular vet, and his BG came back at about 100 less.

    I started the insulin on the morning of May 23.

    He gets Friskies Special Diet...or any of the ones on that list that he will eat...but only the Friskies so far, and mostly just the Special Diet.
     
  44. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I have no idea how I am going to dose .25.... .50 I could eyeball almost ok...but less will be very hard...the markings just aren't on the syringe...the first marking is for 1 unit.
     
  45. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Ok next shopping trip.. Syringes with 1/2 unit markings. Ie For U-100 syringes (Lantus, Levemir), get 3/10 cc, half-unit marked, short needle, 30-31 gauge ie Relion 3/10cc 30 & 31 gauge short, BD Ultra fine 3/10cc short, Terumo Thinpro Insulin Syringe 31G 3/10cc.

    While we wait on the next test, go get a syringe and some food coloring in water. Practice pulling it to half a unit and twist and press plunger to see how many drops you get out, maybe onto a white plate or paper towel. Then you can estimate how many drops half a unit is and expel the amount that you don't need... to get 1/4unit.

    Wendy
     
  46. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    ok ...didnt have food coloring, so I used iced tea :p

    Its such a tiny amount, but I think I can do it....if I go above the .25 am I putting him in danger?

    To be honest, if any of this has to be perfect, I don't know if I can do...mostly meaning the dosage amount...that really scares me
     
  47. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Yeah I am starting to think things aren't lining up for us tonite. How long till PMBG test?
     
  48. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    About 5 minutes
     
  49. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Well you might as well do it now, 5 minutes won't make a huge difference.
     
  50. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Just test right.No shoot or feed yet.
     
  51. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    its at 131 now PMPS

    No food no dose
     
  52. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

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    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Poe hasn't eaten for about 4 hours now, right?
     
  53. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Ok I am calling it, skip this one.

    She is still flat and given you don't have the 1/2unit syringes (which you are picking up tomorrow right?lol) and we don't have an experienced dosing member here, I think you should skip tonite. Go ahead and give her din dins.

    Let's see where she is tomorrow morning. No food for two hours before shot, then at shot time If she is over 200 try and give her close to 0.25 as u can. And get a +2. I am in the office tomorrow so won't be around as much. If she is under 200 I would skip again.

    U are going to vet tomorrow right?

    Wendy
     
  54. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    yes..according the board time, I gave him food at 12:35 pm
     
  55. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

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    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Wait...ok..let me get this straight...lol

    Feed him normally...
    No dosing at all
    Test him again at AMPS (no food 2 hours prior, not an issue, I'll be sleeping)
    I can stop tomorrow after work and get the syringes
    I will do the +2 after AMPS or BG...no doses if under 200 at all

    I got that all right?
     
  56. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Sorry I meant him. I don't know why I keep thinking Poe is a girl!

    Wait...ok..let me get this straight...lol

    Feed him normally... Yes! His normal low carb wet canned.
    No dosing at all.. Correct
    Test him again at AMPS (no food 2 hours prior, not an issue, I'll be sleeping). Yep
    I can stop tomorrow after work and get the syringes.. Cool
    I will do the +2 after AMPS or BG...no doses if under 200 at all .. Yep. And post if you see any drops you don't like after giving insulin (if u give any)

    Vet tomorrow?
    Wendy
     
  57. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I will be talking to the vet tomorrow, not a visit that I know of unless she wants me to come in. I think she starts late tomorrow...like about 3 pm my time (CST)
     
  58. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Actually, instead of just skipping, I'd rather we did a "food test" to see if his pancreas is working.

    So, no shot, but go ahead and feed. Test again in an hour (he should be higher from the food) and then again in 2 hours (the food should have cleared his system by then). If his number from 2 hours is around 130 still, then we know he's got some insulin his body is producing. If his number is significantly lower than 130, then we know his pancreas is producing quite a bit of insulin, which is a fantastic thing and a sign he's trying to go into remission.
     
  59. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please


    OK...feeding him now...will test at +1 and post...then again at +2 and post

    Whew...my heart started beating again..thank you all *hugs*
     
  60. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I'm sorry, I thought I posted but it dissappeared. I too think skipping tonight is best because Poe has gone for a day and a half with no insulin and has pretty close to normal non diabetic numbers. I don't think you have enough data yet, to shoot this low.

    Boy, I almost lost this post too.. you guys type fast. ;-)
     
  61. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Lol! Thanks for popping by Dyana.
    What do you think about tomorrows dose?
     
  62. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    PMBG +1 is 182
     
  63. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Okay, that's the "food spike." Now let's see if it goes down in an hour. :mrgreen:

    When was the last time you gave him steroids and is he still on his inhaler?
     
  64. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    He had his inhaled steroid dose at about 9:45 this morning

    He is supposed to get one puff every 12 hours, but I think the vet is getting ready to end that
     
  65. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    That was 2 hours after his shot, right? And he's due another one in a little bit here?
     
  66. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    The morning steroid inhaler dose was about 4 hours after his AMGB. The latest is PMBG +1 at 182
     
  67. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Okay, still get that +2 so we can see if his numbers go down after eating without insulin.

    I would be curious as to how the steroids are affecting his BGs, so if you can, try to get a test (+4?) before you give him tonight's steroids. Then, if possible, try to grab another test or two an hour or so after the steroid treatment.
     
  68. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Depending how often he needs steroids, in the future, you might need to increase his dose and/or start insulin again at a small amount while this is going on. Basically, you treat the steroid-induced hyperglycemia as needed. If he doesn't spike too high from the steroids, you might not even need to do that much.

    Getting these tests now gives us a better picture of what we might be dealing with here. ;-)
     
  69. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    He's been on the inhaled steroid for 2 weeks as of tomorrow. I was giving him albuterol too, but the vet had me stop that last Tuesday.
     
  70. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Usually steroids spike blood sugar which is what Kay is trying to see. The inhaled might not be having an effect but I wonder if taking him off the albutetrol is why the sugar is coming down.
     
  71. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    PMBG +2 is 176
     
  72. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    With meter variance, that's about the same. Don't worry because it might just be his own natural insulin hasn't fully kicked in yet. It's usually around two hours and his might just be taking a little longer.

    Try to get a +4 (before you give steroids) and we'll see if his numbers have come down even further.

    (Yes, I'll be here in 2 hours. It'll only be 7:30 PM for me. ;-) )
     
  73. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    ok see you in 2 hours...ugh his poor ears...he's a bleeder for sure :YMSIGH:
     
  74. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Kay - can this "steroid" experiment wait till another day to give the poor kitty a break? Its not like we have to worry about a hypo or anything. Plus Karen could probably do with a good night sleep.

    Karen - put some neosporin on them.. and give Poe a treat!
     
  75. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I put neosporin on his ears every time lately...I think he's getting kinda sensitive now..but he still takes it...and gave him treats too..he's sleeping sound in the same place I have been testing him
     
  76. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    The albuterol isn't the steroid...but it still might have impacted his numbers. I don't know. The vet did say that the inhaled steroid has less effect on BG than the liquid would.
     
  77. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Well whatever it is, the numbers are looking good so far! Did you add the +2 to the SS?
     
  78. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I just did...forgot earlier :mrgreen:
     
  79. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Should I still do the PMBG +4?
     
  80. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    As with anything, it's up to you. Haven't heard back from Kay..
     
  81. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    If you feel up for it. I'd like to see if he's lower by then.

    Don't worry about the ears. The first two weeks are the worst, but eventually, their bodies create new capillaries and they don't get as sore any more and the bruising decreases. You can't even tell I test Michelangelo and I test him almost exclusively in his right ear at least 4 times a day or more.
     
  82. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    PMBG +4 is 199
     
  83. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Still roughly the same. I'm thinking tomorrow he'll be well over 200. So, the plan is to shoot only .25u tomorrow if he is over 200.
     
  84. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I'll do my best with the .25 My syringes dont have 1/2 markings..so I have to eyeball

    Another thing is that if I dose him that low...do I need to be here all day to watch?
     
  85. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    You want to dose him only if he's over 200, which is not that low. The .25u is a small enough dose that you're giving him some insulin so we can get his numbers lower but not too much that he drops into the 40s again or you have to keep skipping doses. The lowest you've shot was 1u and you both did fine for the most part. This is .75u less so I think Poe will be fine on this as well.
     
  86. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    OK him and I are headed off to bed...I'm going to try really hard to get that .25..and I did eyeball outside the syringe...so I think I have a pretty good idea.

    thanks :razz:
     
  87. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Have a great night and good luck in the morning! I'll still be sleeping I-) but there will be others about so don't hesitate to post first if you have any questions.
     
  88. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    His AMPS is 317

    Do I still only give .25?
     
  89. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Yes
     
  90. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I am on my way into the office so sorry for short response. U only want to give 0.25 because the pink today is likely a direct result of the lows yesterday and he should come down from that "bounce" soon.
     
  91. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    For future reference, You need to go back to the very FIRST post in your topic ,click on the little edit icon over towards the right hand side in the post, and change the radio button to the 911 icon. That will make it show up better on the board.

    By putting the 911 icon in the new post in your existing topic, the 911 is buried and not so easily visible. People will not see it until they open your topic and scroll all the way down towards the end.
     
  92. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    OK...I know I need to remember to set the 911 and then remove it when crisis has passed.

    I gave him the .25 about 15 min after his AMPS...had to leave for work...won't be able to test til I get home in another 6-7 hours and hopefully will be talking with vet about that time too.

    Thanks
     
  93. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    AMPS +8 is at 164

    I stopped at Wal Mart and the syringes they showed me did not look like they had the 1/2 unit markings. They were closing for lunch (nice huh?) and told me that if I wanted them I had to have a prescription anyway. So, even if they DID have them, I'd have to get a hold of my vet to get them and I don't think she will be in the office for at least another hour.
     
  94. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Not bad at all! This means it'll most likely be safe to shoot him again tonight, which is the goal we're after with Lantus: the smallest amount that is safe to give twice in a 24-hour period.

    As to syringes, the laws vary by state, but for Illinois, you should be able to purchase up to 20 syringes without prescription. Again, it depends on the pharmacist, because even here in California (we're allowed up to 30 syringes without a prescription), there are a few pharmacies that still won't sell me any. :roll:
     
  95. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I'm not going to worry about it. I did ok using the syringes I have with the .25 unit. I gave him a couple of tblspns of his regular low carb food, but his next shot is not due for another 3 hours...just enough to keep him from howling at me (he seen me eating :p)

    So...I think I'm getting the hang of it...and am still prayerful that he will go into total remission. I pulled the syringe to the 1/2 and expelled 1/2 of that and it was a drop literally..so now I know how to handle the .25
     
  96. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    PMPS is 112 feed him normal and give him .25 unit right?
     
  97. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I would wait 30 mins do not feed or shoot and test again.
     
  98. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    are we looking for him to go lower?
     
  99. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    I think he'll just go lower if you stall. Come on Poe, prove me wrong.
     
  100. KarensPoe

    KarensPoe Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Re: Poe's Numbers - Advice Please

    Is it good for him to go lower at this time?
     

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