Poncho diagnosed diabetic 1/15

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by christoph, Feb 5, 2015.

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  1. christoph

    christoph Member

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    I'm not that skilled with the computer....I have some pics on my laptop so will try to post one.
     
  2. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Even though he's been eating a minimal amount Poncho was straining again. The clinic on Friday said the Hills ad and fluids would move things along and I gave him some Miralax Fri and Sat. I gave him 1/8 teaspoon each time in food and he passed a small piece Fri. Should I give a bigger dose (how much) tonight and just syringe feed the dose in water? He might be impacted due to previous dehydration. He's having such a bad time it's one thing after another. I'll probably have to take him to the vet tomorrow.
     
  3. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Thank you!
     
  4. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    With all that's going on at the moment, Chris, I think that's a very wise plan.
    .
     
  5. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    While you wait, you might read up on this web site Feline Constipation. Great overview of the feline GI tract and options for constipation.
    Putting the small amount of the Miralax in the food with water would be good. Might make the syringe feeding easier to get in by diluting it a bit, too.
     
  6. christoph

    christoph Member

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    What would be an adequate dose for a cat.....I think I read somewhere 1/8 teaspoon, or 1/4?
     
  7. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    1/8 teaspoon should be safe. When you see the vet, you can clarify the daily dose.
     
  8. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Thanks BJM for the link and advice. That is the problem....
     
  9. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    The concern about pushing too much through from the mouth end is that a blockage can cause tearing if not moved gently.
     
  10. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris

    Do you have a +4 for us yet?

    I used to give remi 1/8 per day and sometimes twice a day. Without much food I wouldn't panic about not seeing much come out. Ofcourse always best to check with a vet.
     
  11. christoph

    christoph Member

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    BG @ +4 329
     
  12. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we may have a bounce from those blues.
     
  13. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Hi Sarah,
    I posted the +4 BG in the reply box but I guess I forgot to click Post Reply. I was surprised to see 329. Poncho is constipated and maybe that's why.....I'll be taking him into the vet 1st thing this morning when they open. Next shot is 5am.....3 hrs from now.
     
  14. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Okay. So maybe that is a bounce from yesterday. You are only giving the critical care food aren't you?
     
  15. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    We all posted at the same time. It did get posted. Me and @Elizabeth and Bertie both mentioned a bounce and yes if he is constipated it might also influence it. You mention he is straining? Trying to go? Then yes take him to the vet. A different vet than before? If so ask for the ondansetron or cerenia again.

    When remi was constipated the vet put a liquid up there that made him go within minutes. It was quite stressful for him though.
     
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  16. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Some of the problem might be that he doesn't have the energy to push. I noticed this when remi had lost energy and potassium levels when diagnosed with diabetes. If so the miralax will help keep it softer and therefore easier to push out.
     
  17. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Yes he's been eating the Hills ad critical care. He ate a decent amount yesterday so until I get him unclogged should I hold off on the force feeding and hit it as soon as we get home? I just gave his antibiotics and more fluids and should I test @+6 or wait for pre shot @ +8? Am I strictly following the every 8 hrs dosing given the high bounce number.....do I give a shot an hr early if number is high? I need to get the upper resp. illness and this new digestive issue out of the way.....I think they're barriers to his stabilizing.
     
  18. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    I think the general consensus was to stick with the 8 hour schedule and ride out the bounce. Ideally I would take a +6 so we can track what is happening. The bounce might start to clear and we can then compare the +6 with the +8.

    Re the food I think it is still important to get those calories into him. When will you be seeing the vet? if its in a couple of hours I would hold off but much longer I think you should continue, you don't want those ketones getting higher again.

    Does that make sense?
     
  19. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Yes....makes sense. BG @+6 428 He must be very uncomfortable. We're going to head for the vet in 3 1/2 hrs....+8 shot in 1 1/2 hrs I'll call my old vet in St Louis and ask for the cerenia if the clinic wont give it. I'll also need more fluids soon. I should never have told them I resumed the insulin.
     
  20. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes that is higher. I don't know enough about the insulin to advise about giving it early. Perhaps take a +7 and by then some one might be about to advise.

    If he's eaten well then that might influence the numbers and so could the bounce.
     
  21. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Last meal was just prior to last shot. He's in a constant state of stress until I can get a vet to unclog him. If I feed him I'll drive the number up even higher....catch 22 here. Next shot 1 hr....then feed?
     
  22. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Tricky one.
    Although the blood glucose is high at this point I would feel uncomfortable suggesting you shoot much sooner than +8.
    We don't know what's causing the high numbers. And that previous unit is still in the system, even though it is not showing an effect (in terms of dropping blood glucose). My concern is that the doses may 'stack up in the system' and then suddenly come into effect. However, I am probably known here for being more cautious than most.
    It would be good if someone with Prozinc experience could chime in here.
     
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  23. christoph

    christoph Member

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    I feel like waiting until his shot is due....50 minutes and get the +8 preshot BG, shoot then syringe feed. What do you all think? Once he gets unclogged his appetite should come back which was getting better until Friday.
     
  24. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    You must be close to the +8 by now so I would just wait and give the 1 unit then. Yes feed just after but if you feel he is uncomfortable then perhaps just give a little until you get back from the vets.

    If he is really blocked up then you will want the vet to give him something that makes him go soon. As i said before my vet gave remi something up his bottom that made him go within a few minutes. Don't know whether that is what others would recommend but it certainly helped.
     
  25. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree. Don't forget his ketones will make him feel crappy but getting him unblocked will help too.
     
  26. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    I always got the blood test done 10 minutes before the next dose was due to make sure I didn't run late with the insulin
     
  27. christoph

    christoph Member

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    OK I'll test in 20 minutes.
     
  28. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Pre-shot BG @ +8 461 1 unit
     
  29. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Just another thought....Was there talk of getting different syringes that could give more accurate measurements in case you need to give a .25 or .75 ? If so maybe see if the vet has some.
     
  30. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Good idea, Sarah.
    It's much easier to measure small doses of U40 insulin in U100 syringes (using a conversion chart). And easiest if you can get U100 syringes with half-unit markings.

    Edit: The link to the conversion chart is here:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm
    .
     
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  31. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Yes, I think it would help also. Poor Poncho....I read where antibiotics can cause constipation in cats....on top of dehydration. Thanks for the conversion chart link, Elizabeth.
     
  32. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    The miralax will help compensate for that as long as he is getting fluids as well.
     
  33. christoph

    christoph Member

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    I'm leaving soon for the vet's. I should be back to do a +4 BG.
     
  34. christoph

    christoph Member

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    I'll start using it. I hope they can fix Poncho as easy as your vet helped Remi.
     
  35. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    I thought you were using Miralax? Hopefully the increased fluid and food will also help things along. Yes I would add at least 1/8 of a teaspoon to his food per day.

    Good luck at the vets. remi must have something like this -not sure if it was this exact product though but it worked in a similar way. The vet will be able to assess what is the best way to help poncho

    MICROLAX® – Another micro-enema, made by Pharmacia & Upjohn, MICROLAX® contains sodium citrate dihydrate, sodium lauryl sulfoacetate, glycerin, sorbitol, sorbic acid, and distilled water. Each little enema provides 5 ml of liquid. While not strictly a veterinary product, it is sometimes used in veterinary medicine. Remember that some of the action is triggered by irritation of the mucous membranes. These are not remedies which should be used frequently.
    http://www.felineconstipation.org/acutetreatment.html#Enemas
     
  36. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Good luck at the vet's Chris. :bighug:
     
  37. dirtybirdsoaps

    dirtybirdsoaps Member

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    I dont have any advice here, I just wanted to chime in and say great work and thank you for not giving up hope. I know it can be stressful and sometimes hope is hard to find, but all I can ever think of is "would you give up on your child?"

    All I ever think of is when I was a child, I had a friend who had to be rushed to the ER in the middle of the night and was diagnosed diabetic, she was only 10 or 11. It's not a death sentence, just a lot of patience, love, and dedication...which you clearly have. Keep up the great work, and keep posting! There are great people here that can help you through the difficult times (as you clearly can see!)
     
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  38. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    Sending prayers for a good vet visit today and hope they can give him something for the constipation.
     
  39. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris

    How did the vet visit go? Have you taken another reading?
     
  40. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Chris, are you OK?
    Keeping fingers crossed here that things went OK at the vets.
     
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  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Wondering how things are here, too.

    :bighug:
     
  42. christoph

    christoph Member

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    I'm back but Poncho had to stay. Had to go to a new vet because the clinic wouldn't fit us in despite Poncho's condition....which was worse than I thought. The new vet has to run tests today and said after she gets him stable wants to test for Cushings. He definitely was clogged and was only 6.6 lbs where as he was over 10 lbs 2 months ago. The diabetes could be secondary but he is wasting proteins away. I'll know much more later today when I pick him up but he's got a ways to go. I've had maybe 4 hrs sleep since waking up Friday. I'll update later but I want to thank you all here for being truly good folks and guiding us along this darkening path. I'm really nodding out here. More later. God Bless You.
     
  43. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hugs, thoughts and prayers for both of you Christoph...
     
  44. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    More hugs and prayers coming from here. I'm glad that you've found some decent veterinary support. I know you'll be worrying about Poncho while he stays at the vet, but I say from personal experience grab this respite with both hands and get as much rest as you can manage now so that you'll be better able to mind Poncho when he comes home. When you visit him, please give him some scritches from me.

    (((Chris and Poncho)))
    .
     
  45. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Hugs and prayers from me too.
    What a difficult day you've had, Chris.
    I hope you get some good rest. And I'm praying Poncho's condition improves soon.

    xxx
     
  46. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Am thinking of you and poncho. You have done such a good job with him. If they do keep him please make sure they will syringe feed him as much as you have been doing.
     
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  47. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    {{hugs}}
    There is medication for Cushings; I believe it is trilostane.
     
  48. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    I'm glad you got him to the vet. I hope they will be able to balance his conditions and give you a realistic idea of what to expect. He does need to be under a veterinarian's care. ((((hugs))))
     
  49. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    Chris

    Will there be continuing giving him the prozinc and syringe feeding the same food? It will be worthwhile checking if you aren't sure. Hopefully they will also be able to address any low potassium levels,etc.
     
  50. julie & punkin (ga)

    julie & punkin (ga) Well-Known Member

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    I'm really glad you got him to the vet's. He sounds very sick - we're all cheering you on and hoping for the best. We've had other kitties here with Cushing's, if that ends up being the diagnosis.

    Get some rest - you've earned it.

    :bighug:
     
  51. sophie

    sophie Member

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    Hugs and prayers for both of you. Sleep helps so much!
    All my best, Sophie
     
  52. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Christoph,
    This thread is getting WAY too long to find anything. When you wake up and have your head back on your shoulders again, how about starting a new thread entitled something like

    2/9 Poncho Updates

    HUGS
     
  53. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    More prayers for Poncho. You deserve the rest, Chris. We will all be here.
     
  54. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    I'm coming here late and hoping that Poncho is doing much better. :bighug:
     
  55. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Hi everyone. To each one of you I say much thanks. Poncho is resting......I got 9 hrs sleep, got up and did the feeding/fluids and meds routine and now just waiting for the next feeding. I was given appetite stimulant, tubed potassium, another antibiotic for digestive tract, and correct feeding instructions/syringe, and needle placement for fluids. Apparently needle should go in the side, not between the shoulder blades, and now I can feed him easier with a larger syringe with bigger diameter exit hole. The new vet checked his BG late afternoon and it was 177.....last shot was 1 unit @ 5am so at this point no more insulin but check urine for sugar. No ketones in the blood detected He thinks he had pancreatitis and will know if he still has it when test results come back today. What he probably had was transient diabetes from that but since his diagnosis was based on a BG of 379, it deserved further scrutiny to determine if ANY insulin was appropriate. They also should have made sure I was properly instructed in force feeding and given the right syringe and the prescribed food. I'm extremely disappointed in the SPCA clinic and I will try to go to the top there to voice that. They did a lot of good things but dropped the ball on a few crucial things that had a strong bearing on success, then threw in the towel. They actually made his condition worse and he is far from being out of the woods.....it's up to God and me now.....with the new vets guidance. He weighed 10+lbs in the Fall and now weighs 6.6lbs. Two weeks ago 8+ lbs and at time of diagnosis 7+lbs. I will update later. Prayers still needed.....thanks.
     
  56. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad you and Poncho are still hanging in.
    I did read recently that if hyperglycemia lasts more than 2 days, that insulin therapy is recommended until the situation is resolved (if transient) due to the effects of glucose toxicity.
     
  57. Elizabeth and Bertie

    Elizabeth and Bertie Well-Known Member

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    Prayers and positive thoughts coming your way from across the pond, Chris. (And extra chin scritches for Poncho too).

    Huge hug to you,
    Eliz

    PS. "No ketones": That is good to hear.
     
  58. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Yay for no ketones! :D

    Chris, you did an amazing job to get Poncho through the weekend. I'm so glad to read that you and Poncho have now got proper, competent and caring veterinary support. I see you've been given an appy stimulant. That's good. Going forward, if Poncho still struggles to eat on his own, then ask your good vet about a prescription for anti-nausea treatment (e.g. generic ondansetron). If the underlying problem is pancreatitis, some anti-nausea support for a while may help Poncho a great deal with eating.

    I'm glad that you managed to get a really good sleep.

    Sending more prayers for you both.

    (((Chris and Poncho)))
    .
     
  59. phlika29

    phlika29 Well-Known Member

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    I am so glad that both of you are doing okay :). I know that you will keep up with the fluid and food. It will be so much easier now you have the right info and equipment.

    Please keep testing both poncho blood glucose as BJM pointed out if it remains high then it is better to support the pancreas by administering insulin. You do not want to allow a situation that encourages ketones again. On that note please keep testing for ketones as well.
     
  60. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Today the new vet got the test results for pancreatitis and he does have a severe case of it. She said if he starts to vomit she'll put him on IV treatment and I think I'll ask for a 3 day pain shot and some cerenia or ondansetron tomorrow. I'm going to get some BG urine strips tonight and she said I' welcome to borrow a cat specific meter since it is essential at this point to be as accurate as possible if there is an issue with BG. She showed me the comparison with the clinic comparison and mine and it was going up to 100 points off their number up or down. I might have bought a defective Relion. Ok....time for feeding. Thanks for hugs and support. chris
     
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  61. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'm so thankful to hear an update Christoph. Altho' it's awful, I'm glad it's pancreatitis and not something worse. Yes that's bad enough but it can be managed with the right tools which you now have.

    I'm thankful you got a good sleep too...you've been way too long without it.

    HUGS and thoughts and prayers continue from here...
     
  62. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

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    Yay for no ketones! :)
     
  63. christoph

    christoph Member

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    Good idea....thanks
     
  64. christoph

    christoph Member

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    New thread folks: "2/10 Poncho updates"
     
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