Prozinc users...Who feeds smaller, more frequent meals?

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by JOJI and Kit, Feb 3, 2020.

  1. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/spreadsheet-magic.224823/#post-2520012 We've been posting over in the ProZinc forum and "Deb and Wink" has been super helpful, but she says I may get even more help here in the main forum. I've attached the link from that forum to help with what's been going on with our girl. We are getting discouraged for sure, but trying to stay the course with our Vet's input and the amazing resources we found here. If there's anyone that is practiced with ProZinc, I'd so appreciate your input on our SS.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  2. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
    I'm a ProZinc user, but I'm not a pro. I just switched to ProZinc about a month and half ago. I know those high numbers, especially blacks, are hard to see. Been there, done that. But I wanted to say that it does take time, and you're not going to see results immediately. It's possible you'll have to increase your dose several times before you can start decreasing again. I'm not saying that will be true in your case, but it's a possibility. So if that does happen for you, don't freak out. As long as you're able to test, you'll be able to monitor and know when it's time to increase/decrease.

    You had some lower doses, skipped shots, and you're transitioning food, so it's not unlikely that Kit will take some time to even out from the bounce and food change. It takes some time for the body to adjust.

    You're doing great!
     
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  3. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Thank you Amy. I'm going to go look at your SS (if I haven't already! ---I've been trying to take everything in. this is quite an experience!)
    Also, changed my post title from "pro" to user.. To me, everyone is a pro though! super newbie here
     
  4. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
    Something I would suggest (I don't know your feeding schedule, so this may or may not be relevant) is to get a timed feeder so you can get in more meals/snacks. I was feeding 3 times a day previously. 6am/pm and 9pm. I saw that a lot of people feed smaller meals more often and it's supposed to be better to keep their pancreas from being overwhelmed by large meals. It's also helpful for during the day/evening when you're away or sleeping to help keep the levels more stable and avoid large drops in bg levels.

    I got a timed feeder since I work during the day and can't leave food out since I have 4 cats, and Socks (my diabetic) would literally eat it all at once anyway. I was concerned the feeder would be a waste of money, because he's a very aggresive eater. He gets fed in a separate room from the other three so he won't eat their food as well as his own. So far, he's pushed the feeder around the room, clawed it, gnawed on it, and knocked it around, but he hasn't broken in or broken it, so there is hope (for those with "crazy" cats like mine! :) ). He had some issues last week, which was the same time the feeder arrived, so I don't know if it was the feeder, his "other issues" or a combo of the two, but he's been doing much better the past few days and already had two reductions. Might not be because of the feeder, but it definitely won't hurt! He now eats 6 times a day. 6am/pm, 9am/pm, and 12am/pm.

    This is definitely a huge learning experience for everyone at the beginning. I've learned more than I ever cared to know about diabetes and other cat health issues. And there are things that I would have done different in the beginning if I knew the things I do now, but that's the past, so I don't dwell on it. We're all learning and doing the best we can with what we have/know.
     
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  5. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    This is super helpful. Did you get agreement with your vet on the multiple feedings a day or did you go it alone? We've been instructed to do 2x day feeding right before insulin. The overwhelm of the pancreas idea makes a lot of sense to me. Kit often gets so frantic by her hunger before feeding time that she will try to eat almost anything. (post it pads, dustballs, specks of whatever on the floor) It's so sad to see! I can't imagine the panic that goes on inside these little bodied beings. I can see how multiple meals could help smooth things out. Right now we're trying to integrate new food while sticking to a constant insulin amount, so probably more changes right this minute is not wise.

    Sometimes I wish the time would go faster so we could get through this intense period. I didn't think I could love her any more than I already did but this has made that happen!
    I looked at your early SS days and I'm sorry to say that I was a little lifted to see your black numbers. It gives me hope.

    Also, I see you've done a few food switches. Did you do it all at once or gradually? I see you've settled on Tiki. I fed Kit Tiki after Dx and before insulin began. I wish I had stuck with it instead of gone with the prescription.
    Thank you Amy and give Socks a smooch from Kit :kiss:
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  6. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Is there a particular reason you're sticking with the prescription foods? Fundamentally, there is nothing "prescription" about them. (The FDA has been challenging the pet food manufacturers since the notion of a prescription food is misleading.) The ingredients are by no means as good as many of the commercial canned foods. Your reference to the Tiki line of foods is one example of a much higher quality canned cat food than the prescription stuff.

    It looks to me like the transition over to low carb food will help. I would not hold the dose for more than 3 days given how high Kit's numbers have been ranging.
     
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  7. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Joanne has "negotiated" with her vet to start feeding the DM Savory Selects. Vet would not go for switching directly to Fancy Feast. Joanne's cat Kit has had struvite crystals in the past.

    Jo still wants to have a good relationship with her vet. Hence, the compromise from feeding canned Royal Canin Glycobalance to canned Purina DM Savory Selects.

    High BG numbers started happening with the slow switch to lower carb foods. Kit is still in the middle of the food transition. A bit less of the glycobalance, a bit more of the savory selects. She is also adding some Fancy Feast to the mix of foods.

    Which Fancy Feast foods are you feeding? You mentioned that you had some FF Roasted Chicken Flavor. Any other ones you are feeding?
    upload_2020-2-3_20-32-0.jpeg

    So Sienne & Gabby, you'd suggest upping the dose in the middle of the food transition?
     
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  8. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
    I decided on the food myself. My vet didn't tell me I had to do any particular feeding schedule, but I also didn't ask them about it. I just went with what I thought was best based on what I've researched. Socks is the same way- he'll eat anything he sees on the floor without checking to see if it's food first! With Kit's diabetes not regulated, it's likely she's extra hungry because they can't process all the food they're eating, so it's possible she needs more food than usual until she gets more regulated.


    It's hard, but you definitely have to be patient. If you rush things, you could just end up going backwards and take even longer. But it's so HARD!! I'm glad Socks' black numbers turned out to be "good" for something at least! Haha


    I did the switch to Fancy Feast gradually, then went back to DM (that's what my vet originally recommended) when I got some bad numbers since I wasn't sure if that was related, although looking back, I think it was just a coincidence. The switch from DM to Tiki wasn't so gradual. I was working on switching him over, then he had a bad day where he wouldn't eat much (which is SUPER weird for him- he always wants food, any food). He didn't want any DM and he finally started eating some Tiki, and I haven't fed him anything else since.
     
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  9. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Deb, That's the one!
     
  10. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Hey Joji and Kit! I'm a less experienced member, as you know. I can tell you my experience with Billy, and you can form your own opinions. Remember every cat is different. While less than 10% carb from food is recommended for all diabetic cats, for example, some cats do well on very low carb, and some do better with carbs closer to 10%. So with each individual cat, there's trial and error, and a lot of patience required.

    My vet told us to feed twice a day, sold us a high carb dry food, said nothing about home testing, and started us at 2units of ProZinc twice a day every day, no matter what.

    I didn't do any of that.

    Lots of diabetics in my family. I was briefly diabetic just over a year ago before I kicked it to the curb. I personally thought feeding only twice a day for any sort of diabetic was crazy. Big meals twice a day is the opposite of what I did to kick my diabetes to the curb. I also took one look at the ingredients list on that prescription food, and said, I'm not feeding any cat of mine this crap. It's made of grains. No thank you.

    My fiance Brian tried to argue with me for a hot minute-- in his defense, we are used to trusting this vet, he's a good guy. Then we started our own research and luckily found this site. Brian got right on board with the program, and we did our own thing. That very first night, it was time to inject the insulin, and I couldn't do it. I can give a cat a shot. I've done it tons of times. I couldn't do it without testing his blood. I've got diabetics in my family. I know very well how dangerous insulin is if you don't know exactly what that BGL is. So I pulled out my old meter, and we've been testing ever since. This testing is what saved Billy's life on day five.

    Billy loves wet food, so we switched him to all wet from day one. The first few days, (after he started eating again, he was so very sick at first.) we fed a combination of Fancy Feast Classic Pates and Fancy Feast bits in gravy, so we didn't drop carbs too fast. Then we went totally to FF under 10% carbs. We feed every 3-4 hours, day and night. We just made sure we pull up any uneaten food 2 hours before shot time. Small meals, many times a day. About day 13, we went very low carb. Flavors under 4% calories from carbs. This is what does not work for all cats. For Bill, it worked. We started seeing blues and greens, and had to quickly reduce and stop the dose all together.

    All cats are different. Billy was very sick, but his pancreas healed rapidly. It takes however long it takes. I personally think the proper food, and the many small meals were the key. The testing kept Billy safe. I'm not kidding about losing him on the fifth day. If we had strictly followed the vet's advice, we would have given Bill 2 units when his BGL was only 52. So thankful we did not do that.

    We're trying to use this as a teaching moment for the vet. The vet actually seems much more receptive than the vet techs, who have scolded us on more than one occasion. Don't care. Billy's my baby boy and I love him. I'll stare down every vet in the universe if that's what it takes. It's clear our vet office doesn't know feline diabetes well. That's okay. I know more about it every day, and the vet is good at other things.
     
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  11. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Thank you Juls and Billy! You have such a lucky Billy to have such a Mama Bear like you. We would have done things SO differently if we had known at day one what we were doing. Sounds a little like life. ; ) Anyway, I am so happy you chimed in. I know every cat is different, but still there seems to be a general consensus theme of treatment on this board, and having stories like yours fleshed out really helps. I'm off to work but I've shared your story with my SO. We have had our share of quibbles about whether or not to trust every word the vet (who we really really like!) says when it comes to this disease and our Kit. It's exactly how I feel about my own health. I go to doctors but I do my own research. At the end of the day we are responsible. Thanks again! I love looking at your SS and seeing such a great story! This board is so amazing.
     
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  12. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Amy, Do you think the switch to Tiki is what's helped regulate Socks? I fed the succulent chicken to her for the days before starting insulin and she really loved it (and her BG dropped a bit). I wish I'd stuck with the Tiki for awhile instead of going to prescription.
     
  13. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
    I don't think I can really say if the food switch made a difference or not. The switch happened when he wasn't feeling well and he wasn't very interested in food. He didn't want to eat the DM and then when I tried the Tiki later, he ate it, so I just gave him that from then on. I also wasn't testing much then (only AMPS and PMPS), and I didn't understand much about the numbers and how reductions worked, so I missed some reductions I should have taken at that time. With all those variables at the same time, it's impossible to know what was going on for sure. I think the Tiki food is better than the DM, but with the information I have, I can't say the food should get all the credit.
     
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  14. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Amy, Thank you for your fast reply! I have to say, the Tiki looked good enough to be human food! :cat:
     
  15. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Our vet said to feed 2X a day, timing with insulin. Some of you feed more frequent and smaller meals. The rationale for this method seems so obvious and smart. If you are using ProZinc and found this frequent feeding schedule to be helpful, could you chime in? I know that Amy and Socks and Juls and Billy do this and just wondering if there more of you out there. Thanks!
     
  16. Sarah&Soph

    Sarah&Soph Member

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    Jun 18, 2019
    My cat started on Prozinc and I fed multiple smaller meals. All her vets also insisted she only have 2 meals but I said absolutely not, even before joining this board and knowing what I do now, because she has always been a scarf and barf cat. Not to mention that there are published protocols that also recommend this. From the AAHA 2018 guidelines:

    “... the Task Force recommends that the daily ration be divided into multiple meals. The use of timed feeders may be helpful in this scenario”
     
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  17. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    As you know, Billy went from free feeding dry to multiple wet small meals. Our vet said two big meals a day. I'm not good at blindly listening.
     
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  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Some of the vet reasoning behind the "only feed your diabetic cat 2 meals a day" is because of some of the older insulins like NPH (Novolin N or Humulin N). Also true a bit with the Vetsulin/Caninsulin used in cats. Those insulins can drop the blood glucose readings very quickly, very rapid steep drops. From 300 to <100 in less than 1 hour. With no food in your cats system to counteract that rapid onset of insulin, the chance of a hypoglycemic episode are much greater. "Cat must eat first." That is what vets are thinking with the "ONLY 2 meals a day" guidance they give to pet owners.

    It's why the protocols for NPH and Caninsulin/Vetsulin we use here are a bit different. The more rapid onset of those types of insulins make it more important to make sure there is food on board, the cat isn't going to vomit it back up, the food has time to be digested and get into the bloodstream, make sure there is some wait time between feeding and insulin shot. Little nuances that make the difference between a living breathing happy cat and brain damaged cat or no living cat at all.

    I still see people coming on the message board that use Lantus or Levimir and their vets tell them to "shake it" to mix it. Jazmin was one person recently where the vet had told her to do that. Hello vets!!! Lantus is not a suspension type insulin. There is nothing to mix. Only the "cloudy" type insulins like Prozinc, NPH, Vetsulin/Caninsulin need mixing to suspend the particles of insulin back into solution.

    Today, we have auto feeders and can leave some food out for our cats when we are away, even in a multi-cat household. There are even auto feeders that work off a micro-chip to keep the other cats out of the feeder.

    More than 75% of people decide to euthanize a diabetic pet on learning of the diagnosis. Remember, not many cat owners are willing to home test. Vets are giving their best general advice to the majority of their cat owner clients. That includes the "2 meals a day" advice." Generic advice, but it works for most of their clients.

    We here, all go a step beyond. Actually we go far beyond what many people are willing to do. Good for us. Good for all those people we are trying to help negotiate this difficult journey with feline diabetes and their cat.

    p.s. Deb has written yet another short story. Juls, do you think anyone would publish it?
     
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  19. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Lol, you should totally write a book about feline diabetes.

    I agree that many vets are trying to keep it as simple as they can in order to help keep people from putting their diabetic kitties to sleep. I totally get that. I can understand that and still wish they would at least let people know there are better protocols out there, if the owner wants to explore them. And also perhaps not argue with the cat owners who are actively using those better protocols and achieving good results with them. I can see what they are doing and still want them to do better.
     
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  20. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    With Prozinc we're supposed to "roll" the bottle. Now I'm wondering if I'm rolling it enough! One source said to roll it 20 times. Oy. So many things can go wrong!!!
     
  21. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    ProZinc can settle, and it's too fragile to shake, according to my vet. So yes, roll gently as long as it takes. But you can totally see if it's settled. Hold it in the light. Does it look brighter white or otherwise more concentrated at the bottom? Then roll some more. Everything look the same color top to bottom? Then you should be good to go.
     
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  22. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    I wish the vet had talked about this. They referred to the rolling as warming it up, not mixing. Thank you so much. Again! :banghead:
     
  23. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    All those little details your vet never told you, and you didn't know enough to ask about.
     
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  24. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Our vet told us the importance of rolling, but not exactly why, or what it should look like. I noticed the settling and looked it up. We never stop learning!
     
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  25. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    food nutritional composition chart question

    https://catinfo.org/docs/SortableCatFoodChartCatinfo.org2-22-13.htm

    https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

    hi, looking at the html version vs the pdf version and seeing different protein, fat, carb, mg phosphorus per kcal values for what i think is the same food.
    e.g.
    htm reads
    https://catinfo.org/docs/SortableCatFoodChartCatinfo.org2-22-13.htm
    Brand ▾ Group Flavor P F C mg Phos/ 100 kcals P F C Phos DM kCal
    Fancy Feast Roasted Chicken Feast 61 27 12 419 55 9 10 1.20 80

    while pdf reads
    https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf
    Brand Caloric Distribution PROTEIN % FAT % CARB % mg PHOSPHORUS/ 100 kcals CALORIES per 5.5 oz unless otherwise noted
    FANCY FEAST Roasted/Flaked/Chunky Roasted Chicken Feast 54 40 6 284 80

    is the html older information or the pdf the most up-to-date?

    I wrote to Purina and have not heard back. I selected the roasted version since it was lower phosphorous.
    sigh!
     
  26. Sarah&Soph

    Sarah&Soph Member

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    Jun 18, 2019
    It looks like the chart in the first link is from 2012 and the second one is from 2017
     
  27. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Yes, 2012 vs 2017 but want to be certain what is correct. They have such different data and Purina has not responded since I reached out a week ago to verify. Frustrated!
     
  28. Sarah&Soph

    Sarah&Soph Member

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    Jun 18, 2019
    The newer one would be the most accurate :cat: Some companies change their formulas which is definitely frustrating for us!
     
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  29. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Hi Deb, I chose this FF variety because most of the classics are high phosphorous and since she has had urinary issues I went with <300. Her numbers have been high and flat as we work on diet changes. I think I am going to start investigating Tiki again.
     
  30. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    FF Roasted chicken looks good.
     
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  31. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Thanks Deb. The only thing that bothers me is that it has wheat gluten. No low phosphorous low carb options with FF Classic except for Salmon Feast.
     
  32. Sarah&Soph

    Sarah&Soph Member

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    Jun 18, 2019
    Have you looked into Weruva? I believe they have several options that are low carb and low phosphorus, and I think it’s a bit cheaper than tiki cat
     
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  33. alex7 & Bigboy feral cat

    alex7 & Bigboy feral cat New Member

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    Dec 29, 2019
    Hi JOJl and Kit, This is my first post. I am using prozinc with an alphatrak 2 meter. I feed purina dm every 3 to 4 hours. I feed this to keep the variables at a minimum. Bigboy showed up last summer at one of my outbuildings. He was hanging out with some of my feral ranch cats. He was having difficulty eating, so I trapped him to take to my vet. Long story short, he had multiple fractured teeth and severe stomatitis. His fasting glucose when I first took him in was 146 mg/dl.
    I have been trying to follow the advice on this forum. I hope I have set up my SS right, and that you can see his progress. Let me know if it is helpful.
     
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  34. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Hi again Amy and Socks,

    So I went and got a bunch of Tiki (mostly Puka Puka) and was calculating calories for Kit. FYI for you and anyone else using Tiki...I noticed that the calorie count on the Tiki can does not match up with the Catinfo.org food chart data! The 6 oz can says 147 cals while the Catinfo chart says 221!

    I'm also wondering if you find problems with Socks' digestion since this food has no fiber.

    Joanne and Kit
     
  35. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    "The data used to calculate the values on this chart are from Typical Nutrient Analysis (TNA) data - not the Guaranteed Analysis (GA) data which is listed on the product’s package (can/pouch/bag). GA values are reported as minimums and maximums and are, by definition, inaccurate since there is no ceiling or floor, respectively."

    From the foodchart, page 2. Near the top.
    Like comparing apples go oranges. Both fruits, but different.
     
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  36. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Deb, Thanks, and OMG can this all get any more confusing!? Frustrated and exhausted...
     
  37. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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  38. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Wow Alex7 you sure do have your hands full! I learned that on this forum from Deb that if you are wanting any feedback on your work with Bigboy you should post in this forum under a new post heading. I only wish for a BG number that low for Kit! Good luck with your kitty. He's lucky to have you!! It seems that lots of people feed smaller more frequent meals. We're trying to integrate that with Kit but it's hard since she's so hungry at feeding time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  39. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi @alex7 & Bigboy feral cat

    If you start your own thread here on the Feline Health Welcome & Main Forum, we can give you individualized help.
    Are you up for that? Know how to do that?

    Go to the top right hand corner of the screen. Click on "Post New Thread" Put in a title, starting it with NEW MEMBER and your question.
    Enter the text in the text box, hit the "Post Reply " icon. That's it!

    Did you get your welcome email ok? Lot's of good links in that email.
     
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  40. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    Deb, You've helped us so much! It's so funny, but around the house we are saying "Deb said", or "Juls said", or "Amy said", just like we're all longtime friends. SO grateful!:bighug:
     
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  41. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
    I buy the 10 oz cans, and they're not listed on the chart, so I hadn't noticed. We did calculate calories to feed at the beginning, but we've been keeping track of his weight and use that to make adjustments if he's losing/gaining now.

    I haven't noticed any problems. I don't know if cats really need fiber since they're obligate carnivores?
     
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  42. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Often, getting more moisture in their diet from the canned food is all a kitty needs to be regular, even if they are on the zero carb foods. If folks have trouble with their cat's being regular, they might add something like a little psyllium husk into the diet. If a fiber supplement is required, look up the particular method and dosage for the fiber. Psyllium husk, for example, usually needs a little extra water added when it's mixed with canned food, so it doesn't get too thick and gummy, which can cause choking.
     
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  43. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

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    Dec 19, 2019
    I also noticed that you're using PlaqueOff. I never knew this existed. Have you found it's helping Socks? We may go broke with this Kit! :joyful:
     
  44. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
    I saw it mentioned on here and decided to give it a try, but I really have no idea if it helps or not.

    I don't even want to think about how much money I've spent on Socks.....!!! I told the receptionist at the vet that I was going to make him get a job to pay for himself!
     
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  45. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    :joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful::joyful:

    Joanne, we may never meet in person, but everyone here is part of our family. Our FDMB family. :bighug:
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
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  46. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

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    Dec 28, 2019
    Brian and I give our pets precious metal status. For example, Billy has been upgraded from our gold level to platinum cat status. :)
     
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  47. Amy and Socks

    Amy and Socks Member

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    Sep 30, 2019
    Haha! Socks is definitely platinum level. He’s trying real hard to get to rhodium!
     
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  48. Callie & Patches

    Callie & Patches Well-Known Member

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    Jun 18, 2016
    My vet said to roll the Vetsulin because" insulin molicules are fragile and they needed to be mixed up gently."
     
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  49. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    The Vetsulin manufacturer says to :"Before administering, all insulin should be shaken thoroughly until a homogeneous, uniformly milky suspension is obtained. Any foam formed during shaking should be allowed to disperse before the product is used.".
    https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/vetsulin/about-vetsulin#Vetsulin_Storage_Handling
     
  50. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2019
    IMG_0684.jpg

    Here's our Kit after BG. She's so good for these tests it breaks my heart. She actually purrs!
     
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  51. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Burrito wrapped before or after the BG tests?

    Vetsulin is "shaken" thoroughly.
    Prozinc is "stirred" or rolled thoroughly.

    "Yes, Mr Bond, would you like your martini shaken or stirred?"
     
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  52. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2019
    Deb,
    That's Burrito Kit after BG. Sometimes she just wants to hang out there! Best kitty I've ever had with second place going to Putty when I was in grade school. (Apologies to Hallie and Shash who scared me too often with their attacking ways)
     
  53. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Kit is adorable!
     
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  54. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2019
    We feel like we've been making slow progress this week after integrating Tiki. We have ever so slowly been reducing from the 14% carb Glycobalance, then the 10% DM, to the 6% FF, and now integrating the 0% Tiki Puka Puka. @Deb & Wink would SO appreciate your input, comments and observations if you can take a peek at our SS! Thanks in advance!!:kiss:
    PS We could open a catfood shop. ; )

    HA. Spoke too soon. 604 PMPS :banghead:
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020 at 5:37 PM
  55. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi Jo.

    It may be hard to think in + time hours for the BG tests, but you also need to think in + time hours for the food notes. Saying you fed at 8:20 or 9:40 doesn't mean anything to me. Listing the food fed in the + hours format would put it into context for me. It would tell us if you are feeding after the mid-point of the 12 hour dosing cycle.

    Right now, I can't determine that. Do you think you could change the SS notes to reflect the + hours instead of local time? Include any snacks too, or if you are using an auto feeder, the + times that the auto feeder opens.

    Kit had that 119 at +4 today, 2/12/20, so I'm a bit leery to have you increase the dose.

    Kit skyrockets back up at +7 to +8. What is happening at that time? Any ideas from you?
    What is happening in the AM cycle between +7 and the PMPS pre-shot time?
    Last 3-4 days.
     
  56. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2019
    Hi Deb,

    Gotcha. We are beginning to try to split up her meals so she doesn't get one big meal all at once. We are not using a timer feeder but we have one and may start that up soon.
    I will fill in those times as you recommend. That makes a lot of sense.

    Right! We can't figure out why she skyrockets at the end of the AM cycle. We don't feed any meals after + 6 except for the teeniest chicken bit treat if we do a BG.
    The only thing I've come up with is that the ProZinc may not be holding her for the whole cycle and a different insulin might be better if this trend continues?

    We're not thinking to increase her dose yet. Trying to hold steady.

    Thanks for your insights, they are helpful!
     
  57. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    + hours are counted from the time you give the shot of insulin.

    I may have told you incorrectly that the + hours was from the time of the pre-shot test.

    Apologies for messing things up for you and Kit.
     
  58. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2019
    No worries. You didn't mess up. We're on the same page!
     
  59. JOJI and Kit

    JOJI and Kit Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2019
    Kind of unrelated, but we are seeing dandruff on Kit. She's never had this problem before. We do have one of her beds with a low temperature pet safe heater under it, she's had this option in the cold months for over a year and she does love it. It's certainly not a dry winter (rain, rain, rainllll) and we don't overheat our home. :(
     
  60. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Dry skin and dandruff is often a symptom of the diabetes. Billy has always had some dandruff, but it got much worse around when he was diagnosed. Hopefully it will improve as Kit gets better regulated.
     
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  61. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Brush Kit with a natural bristle brush.to distribute the oils in her fur.
    Dandruff is one symptom of the diabetes.

    Linking an old post on DRY SKIN for you to read.
    dry skin?
     
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