Questions

I have a 19 year old Maine Coon who has been doing very well with his insulin, etc. However, recently I believe he had been having some tooth issues and I was prescribed an antibiotic. He has gotten his strength back, however he is refusing to eat. This causes me stress and concern because I do not have a test for his blood sugar and am unsure if I should give him any insulin at all. Can someone give some advice??

Thanks

Rudey's mom. cat(2)_steam

 

Hi there

unfortunately, you should be testing his BG.
Have a look at these home testing links, honestly, it does get easier, takes a little practice and patience at first, but home testing is a valuable tool when treating diabetes.
Ask yourself this: if you had to give yourself or your child a shot of insulin, would you check yur BG first before shooting to know if it were safe?
Home Testing Links

If you're in the U.S - your best and least expensive bet may be the Relion meter from Walmart, strips of 50 are about $20, the meter itself is abut $9-$12.

What kind of tooth issues? You'll prob want to have that taken care of as it can affect BG levels, once tooth issues are good to go - you'd be surprised at the way some kitties drop in BG. Again another reason to home test before shooting.

What kind of insulin are you on?
What diet is your kitty on?

If he's not eating well, could be the teeth issues, some suggest baby food (no onion/garlic thou) parmassean cheese, tuna + tuna juice.
Others will be along to help you out, check back often! You've found the best site for feline diabetes!

 

Check the listed side effects for the antibiotic; a number of them can cause stomach upset. If the absx you're using is one of those, you might consider giving something like Pepcid A/C (*not* Pepcid Complete), 1/4 tablet twice a day.

ETC: Pepcid A/D to Pepcid A/C ... oops!

And I'd swear there's another reason abx can affect appetite but, for some reason, my brain's not giving it up so I'll leave it for someone else to comment on ....

 

If he has tooth issues, then he may need to have a dental. Is there any reason why they cannot do a dental exam, cleaning, etc on him? Maybe see a dental specialist to get the tooth issue addressed.

I know it's pricey and scary to put them under anesthesia, but a good dentist knows what they are doing and with precaution and preparation it is a safe procedure.

Just a thought.

 

Thanks everyone for the replies...

He has had a dental exam; however, due to having kidney issues, diabetes, a heart murmur and extreme arthritis, the Dr. felt based on his health and his age, the risk factors would be too great.

Currently, he is on Clavamox (sp?) for the tooth issue. He has an appointment on Tuesday as he has been grinding his teeth while eating, although if he does not start eating by tonight, I am calling to have him admitted tomorrow morning.

Rudey is on Vetsulin - 2.5 units twice per day. However, because he is not eating, I had not given him insulin. The doctor had said that I should give him a reduced dose, yet I'm not a Dr. so I would not know what that dose should be. Because he was drinking tuna juice, I reduced his dose and he seemed well afterwards. I did not know that Wal*Mart sold the glucose meters... can you use a human glucose meter for cats? Or do you need a special one? My mom has a lancet set here that could be used, yet I would feel better having a vet show me how to do it rather than just go into it amateurly.

As for food, he was getting Fancy Feast soft food and also hard food specially for his urine crystals. He has drank Tuna Juice, however, refused to eat the tuna. He ate one piece of hamburger but I could tell that his teeth hurt him. I also gave him a small piece of corn muffin and he ate that.

He has been sleeping a lot as well and I know that the Clavamox has caused drowsiness in the past. Dependent what is found during his appt, I may need to just take the chance of having his teeth taken care of... it's just a very scary situation because diabetes is not his only factor.


EM

 

Yes you can use a human meter! many of us do.

If you'd like to state your location (city/state) there may be someone from this board in your area that may be able to help you with home testing.

You may also want to ask your vet about an alternative insulin, as there has been a recall on Vetsulin (Dec 09) here is the link
Vetsulin Recall Warning

 

Thanks all for the help.

I will definately be getting a home test... especially since I now know you can use the human kind. Would you read it the same?

I'm in Upstate New York, about 30 miles west of Albany, NY.

EM

 

Hi and welcome.

You can use a human glucometer, I'm using the Walmart brand Relion Ultima, I just switched to it from the Accu Check Aviva. I like the Accu Check, the One Touch Ultra, and a few others, but the Relion has the best price that I've seen for test strips. However, the AccuCheck Aviva, in my opinion, sips the blood the fastest and may be easier for those just starting out.

Diabetics do tend to have bad teeth, the sugar in the body makes the gums a breeding ground for bacteria. I completely understand your being hesistant to do a dental on a cat of his age, I'm don't think I would either. But, quality of life is important. If you think there is any pain associated with the bad teeth, ask the vet about pain control, maybe Buprenex, I'd stay away from Metacam with the kidney issues you have. But, I'm no expert or vet, this is just my own experience with my kitties.

I'd want to check the blood sugar as soon as possible, with the ABs on board the sugar could be high. So get those ketone sticks also from Walmart. Ketodiastix?? If the BGs are too high we should be thinking about Ketones and if the BGs are too low we need to think about Hypoglycemia. In any event, the glucose monitor will be your safest and fastest way to take care of your little one.

You want to get some food into him, we don't fatty liver to happen. Do you have a needleless syringe? Warm up some of the Fancy Feast with some water and if you have the needleless syringe, force feed him a little bit.

 

Welcome! You have already gotten lots of good info, on the Vetsulin recall, and possible easy foods for him to eat. Agree that hometesting will help you see the whole picture. It is a double trouble - they won't eat, so you are nervous about giving insulin. But not giving insulin with high numbers can cause other problems.

Here are two sites that will help you with hometesting. This one has lots of beginning info: http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm and this is a video showing how to do it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

 

I took the baby food advice and I did get him to eat about a 1/3 of a jar. He was annoyed with me for bothering him when he was sleeping. I have a call in to his vet to admit him tomorrow for more tests, etc. I have read that no insulin is better than too much insulin? Would you agree? Or would you agree if he is eating some food (even if it is baby food) that a reduced dose be given?

Emily

 

This is a really delicate balance, Emily. You don't want him to be without insulin and go way high. That's a very dangerous situation. But you have to be very careful giving a cat a regular dose when he is not eating because that can cause a hypo situation.

As others have said, the two things that would help you and us figure this out would be ketone and blood glucose testing. The earlier posts gave you info on both. Have you been able to get a ketone reading and/ or a blood glucose reading? To figure out whether or not to give insulin in this situation without that information is really shooting blindly.

To be honest, he is in a precarious situation. If he were my cat, I would work on getting a ketone test and a blood glucose test asap. Did you give your city and state? If you want to change your topic to include that and ask for help, there is a chance that someone could help you today.

 

I'm in Delmar, just outside of Albany. Be happy to give you an in-person insulin inservice -- in case you're interested. ha ha, couldn't inhibit myself.

I'm out of town Mon-Wed. and work banker's hours.

 

I understand the concerns about getting a dental done with his different health issues. I would like to suggest that if you have a board certified dentist in your area, that you may want to have a consult. I only suggest this as I recently did dentals on two of my cats, Maui and Sydney. Sydney has early kidney issues (no heart murmur or FD) and I was very concerned about protecting her and doing this so she wouldn't hurt. They kept Sydney overnight and gave her IV fluids as a protection for the kidneys. After her dental, she was given more fluids.

It's just something to consider, while a consult will cost you some money, you will get more information and be in a better position to decide yes or no. And who knows, the dentist may even say your cat is not a candidate and have other ideas you can try to help the teeth.

By any chance is your cat allergic amoxicillin? You mentioned the eating issue and it made me think if he is is allergic or sensitive to amoxicillin, clavamox contains amoxicillin and that could be a concern.

 

Hillary, you are way braver than I am :mrgreen: The eldest kitty I had a dental done with was Henry at age 16 and only because he could not eat food and his mouth was in such pain that his quality of life was poor. When I adopted him a week before the dental was done the previous caretakers said he "forgets to eat his food and has to be reminded." Once we pulled all his teeth the little man ate like crazy and went from 6 pounds up to 9 pounds. He went through surgery with no problems, thankfully.

I'd be nervous about doing a dental on a 19 yr old, however I do understand that bad teeth can lead to heart issues and higher BGs.