Recently diagnosed, start insulin Tuesday

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Adam Flowers, Sep 23, 2017.

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  1. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    Hello everyone. My name is Adam Flowers and my cat Mogee Pickles was just diagnosed with diabetes.

    Mogee is 6 years old l, weighs 18 lbs. and has been a healthy-spoiled cat his entire life. I noticed about 3 weeks ago that he was peeing and drinking more than usual. After some research, I realized he needed to go to the vet as he most likely has diabetes based on his symptoms.

    Mogee's first vet appointment was Friday, September 1st. His bg was tested and was 396. My vet recommended having Mogee fast and come back in to have his numbers tested again before we decided what to do.

    I brought Mogee back to the vet on Tuesday, August 5th after he fasted overnight. His bg was 306.

    My vet recommended having Mogee start on a diet for a week or two and then have his numbers tested again before deciding what route to go.

    My vet prescribed, and Mogee has been eating since September 13th, Royal Canin Glycobalance. He used to be free fed, now I feed him at 6:40 am and 6:40 pm. He gets, based on his weight, 3/8 cup of dry food mixed with half a can of wet Glycobalance at each meal. He has been eating it and loves it.

    Today, we had our final bg after trying the food for a couple weeks to see what Mogee's numbers would be. He fasted and his bg this morning was 326.

    Based on today's bg, we will meet with our vet tech on Tuesday September 26th and start insulin.

    I believe my vet will be prescribing Prozinc/PZI. Are those the same thing?

    My question to anyone reading this is have you have any experience or have any advice when it comes to the food my vet has recommended? My cat loves it and it seems to be working.

    Also, my cat is very shy and has not been around many people. Anytime anyone does come over, he hides until they leave. I do believe that his anxiety has affected his bg levels when tested at the vet. I do plan on buying a meter and testing at home. I have watched numerous videos and feel I will be able to do it.

    I should also mention Mogee's urine was tested and there were no ketones.

    I am new to all of this as I see many others are too. Mogee is my baby and many tears have been shed thus far. Any advice, help, or recommendations are always welcome. Thank you all and I am glad I am able to be a part of this group.
     

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  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    Welcome! Mogee is beautiful. :cat: According to the American Animal Hospitals Association guidelines, you should feed the lowest carb diet the cat will eat (and high protein) and feeding four times per day is ideal (using an auto feeder, if needed). The Glycobalance is 14% carbs which is really too high. I stay under 5% carbs but the general rule is that you should at least stay under 10%. If you have not seen it yet, there is a cat food database that is extremely helpful when you are determining what food to feed your cat. Catinfo.org provides a lot of information on feline nutrition.

    ProZinc is a Protamine Zinc Insulin (PZI).

    Be sure to ask any questions you have going forward on the Main Health Forum. They will get more attention there rather than here in the introduction forum. It would be helpful if you would go ahead and set up a signature with some basic info so that you do not have to restate the basics every time you post. Also, once you start home testing, you can set up a spreadsheet to track your test results and doses given and put a link to it in your signature. The spreadsheet will be extremely valuable to you and to everyone here when you ask for advice.
     
  3. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Welcome Adam and Mogee. Sorry you find yourselves having to join this group of extra sweet felines and their hoomans but you've come to the right place for help. So glad to hear you are planning on home testing Mogee as that is the best tool we have to keep our kitties safe and get them regulated.

    ProZinc and PZI are two different insulins. The confusion arises because they share the ingredients protamine and zinc and "PZI" tends to get used when referring to either one. ProZinc is a human recombinant insulin formulated for pets whereas PZI is animal based (bovine or porcine).

    If you let us know where you are located, we can help you find some foods that would be a better option than the Glycobalance. The dry Glycobalance is too high in carbs and there are retail brands of food that are much better for Mogee and far easier on your pocketbook.
     
  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Welcome.

    Perscription food is not necessary and no better then store food. Most of us feed fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. Here is a wet food comparison chart. Choose foods under 10 percent in carb.
    http://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pd

    You said you are mixing in dry with it. There are only a handful of dry foods under 10 carb.... And none of the perscription ones are. They are all 14-16% carb. It should be illegal that they market it to diabetic cats. One acceptable food is Young Again Zero carb (1% carb) which can be found at Youngagainpetfood.com. Another is Dr.Elsley's Clean Protein (5%) found on elsley's site or chewy.com. Both companies will you a free sample of the food if you ask.
     
  5. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    I think the confusion is that PZI stands for Protamine Zinc Insulin. ProZinc is a PZI, but there are others, too. ProZinc is a recombinant human PZI insulin. There was an insulin called PZI VET that was a pork/beef PZI but is no longer on the market. Some pharmacies compound a PZI that is bovine and referred to simply as PZI. If your vet prescribes 'ProZinc PZI', that is ProZinc. If they just prescribe 'PZI', you can clarify with them. My understanding is that ProZinc is pretty much the go-to currently, so I would be surprised if the vet prescribed bovine PZI, but you have me curious now, so let us know. ;)
     
  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Welcome to you and your handsome kitty! Love his name. :) We can help you get your boy on track. Post all your questions on the main health forum where more people will see them.
     
  7. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    Thank you all for your responses.

    I live in Lincoln, NE.

    Both of you mentioned that Glycobalance is not a good choice for food. I am lost as to what I need to do then.

    I take Mogee to Companion Care Veterinary Clinic here in Lincoln and Dr. Oxley is very liked here in town. When he diagnosed Mogee, he prescribed the Glycobalance. He also does not recommend "wet" or "canned" food.

    Based on everything I have read the past month, since I've thought Mogee had diabetes, has gone against what my vet seems to recommend.

    I have an appointment this coming Tuesday to speak with them about how to start and administer Mogee's insulin and want to bring these issues up without upsetting my vet or making things worse. I have been considering second opinions from vets here in Lincoln but Oxley had been great with Mogee since he was a baby.

    I guess I am just lost as to what I should do. Thanks again for all the advice
     

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  8. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Feb 18, 2015
    Sometimes we walk a fine line with our vets. Vets get most of their dietary training from the big brand name pet food makers like Royal Canin, Purina and Hills so they are brain washed into thinking it's the best for a multitude of conditions. Truth is, there is nothing therapeutic or prescription about the diets they peddle. So you may just need to tell you vet that Mogee has decided the food is not to his/her liking. I do find it strange that your vet is against wet/canned food. A cat doesn't eat kibble in the wild so how could he possibly think it's a better choice. It's not ideal for any cat but least of all our diabetics.

    If you must feed dry food Janet gave you some more acceptable alternatives in post #4 here. If you have any further questions, please post them HERE in the Health Forum. This is our welcome mat and we like to keep more technical info on the Health Forum where there is more traffic, more responses and more peer review to ensure you get accurate and pertinent information. :)
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I have a great vet who isn't a specialist but has a special interest in feline diabetes. She told me that low carb canned food was the only thing I should be feeding my diabetic kitty. However, as great as she is, the routine I was put on to figure out insulin dose got me nowhere. I was to keep a dose for a week, do a curve at home, send her the results and wait for her dosing advice. Repeat. I did this for months and it was fruitless. I came here to FDMB in August of last year because I knew what I was doing wasn't working. I started the testing routine we recommend here, set up the spreadsheet we use here and from then on I learned a lot about my cat's response to insulin and why a weekly curve was useless.

    All this is to say that even a great vet might not be able to give you the best advice for treating your diabetic cat. Many of us have kept our vet but it's on the understanding that we will be the ones to manage the diabetes. My vet had no problem with me taking a different path. She still looks after my three for all the other health stuff.

    Re food: many of us here feed Friskies or Fancy Feast wet food, the pate varieties only. The sauce/gravy types are too high in carbs. It's best to keep carb content under 10% and those pates fit the bill.
     
  10. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    I don't understand why he would recommend against wet as it's generally lower in carb and gives them more of the water they need.
     
  11. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    All of you have gave me such great advice. As mentioned, I started joining groups and researching as soon as I believed Mogee had diabetes.

    My next question I guess is, since I just changed his diet 2 weeks ago and he had been eating the same food since he was 1, should I change it again this quickly? Will it effect him much? I know this past change in food did upset his stomach a bit and I did my best to gradually introduce it.

    Also, I just home tested for the first time. I bought the relion confirm and watched numerous videos on how to do it. Mogee did not seem to mind too much. He was purring as I was trying to poke. He tested at 290. I am new to this so am not sure too much what that means but I do know it is high. He ate at 6:30 this morning. Any help understanding this number is appreciated.

    I will meet with the vet and start insulin Tuesday.

    Thanks again for all the advice and help. You all are amazing.
     

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  12. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    Thanks for the extra photo. I love Mogee. You can just give him to me, and I will take care of everything! :smuggrin: Seriously though.. It is shocking how little a lot of vets seem to know about feline nutrition and/or feline diabetes. The vet clinic I took Mia to when she was diagnosed is a very reputable clinic, very highly rated/respected, BUT I found that they did NOT have the expertise needed for this. As soon as I came home after the diagnosis, I started researching to learn as much as I could. I then spoke with the vet about food (she had sent me home with Hill's m/d dry and a can of wet, only because I asked for some wet) and told her what I had learned. She called me the next day and apologized for giving me in correct information. She did her own research and found that I was correct, low-carb wet is the best way to go. (She got points for admitting her initial ignorance.) The m/d foods, like the glycobalance, are too high in carbs. So, I switched. I still have some of the m/d dry food and have used it on a couple of occasions when Mia's numbers were getting a little low, and I wanted to steer them up a little. I have seen the direct impact the carbs in that 'prescription' food have on her glucose level, so I would never feed her that as her regular diet. I ended up dropping that vet (when she recommended AGAINST home testing, that was the final straw). I ended up parting ways with a second vet, too. That one did not want me to have a 'no-shoot' number. She wanted me to shoot a full dose of insulin even if Mia's glucose was as low as 100 (and I use a pet meter, AlphaTRAK). She did not want me to have any say in the dosing, said I 'did not value her expertise'. I FINALLY found a great vet; he is an internal medicine specialist. I felt so relieved after my first visit with him. Everything he said was in line with what I have learned. In other words, he actually knows his stuff!

    Regarding making another food change, I would make it, but it is up to you whether it is gradual or not. You know your cat. I chose to completely take up my cats old dry food the day Mia was diagnosed, and it worked out for us. I gave them the dry food from the vet at first, but since I quickly learned that was not the best choice, they did not get it for long. They had a bit of a hard time transitioning from dry to wet since they had eaten dry their entire lives, so I gave them Young Again Zero Mature dry food during the transition. My other cat, Willow, ended up having to have some dental extractions and could not eat dry for 10 days. That was a perfect time for me to take up the dry completely, and we have been 100% wet ever since.

    290 is high but not horribly so. (I realize you are using a people meter so that higher than it would be on my pet meter where 250 is the beginning of what is considered high glucose.) That is with no insulin, too. I would be curious to see what a switch to a low-carb wet food would do to his numbers. It would be nice if you could switch him and see before you start the insulin. If you do start insulin and then switch, be careful. You will want to monitor very closely to make sure he does not start going too low. Hopefully, your starting insulin dose will be low if his numbers without insulin are around 290.
     
  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    290 is high, but lower than many cats with diabetes but not on insulin. Normal on a human meter is 50-120
     
  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Great job getting that first test!!
     
  15. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    Thank you for that information. I knew it was high but like you mentioned, didn't think it was too extremely high for a cat not on insulin yet.

    That is part of the reason we have not started yet. My vet wanted to get Mogee's diet changed first to see what it would do to his numbers before we decided to start insulin.
     
  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Most cats just diagnosed are in the 350-450 area. Some higher some lower.
     
  17. Adam Flowers

    Adam Flowers Member

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    Sep 23, 2017
    Mogee, when I first noticed he was peeing and drinking more, tested at 396 at our first vet visit for diabetes. He then was at 306 and then 326 after fasting overnight both times. Now today he was a 290. I do believe that he has higher numbers when we go to the vet as I know he hates going and gets very nervous.
     
  18. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Yeah stress raises it a lot
     
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