? Removed the alert sorry I didn't know I could change it!!

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Bonnie & Oreo Joe, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    Scared I posted wrong as no one has seen this. Spreadsheet is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14KvopXfKGqC_CD0R63O_TC5_eKxajiLx0vlL5Uumxzc/edit#gid=0

    He is staying at 325 didn't move a single point after 1½ U at +2
    Hubby found something we can try for special litter box to check for Ketones, except he isn't peeing!! It is a sheet if ice outside and besides the emergency vet is 3 hours away - that isn't going to help!!
    He had 3 TBL of pate' low carb cat food assisted feeding. What do I do?
    He hasn't drank anything. I am going to find something to give him fluids with.


    Posts since WED http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/oreo-joe-new-tests-diabetic-kitty.188633/#post-2096638
     
  2. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    If he isn't peeing at all my concern would be a blockage in his urinary tract, pancratitis, or ketoacidosis. Does he go in the box and strain to go? How long has it been since he went? You definitly need to get more food and water in him. Assist a feed a few tablespoons every 2 -3 hours until you can get him help. Water down the pate until it's like a thin soup. . Offer him anything he might eat. Try tuna, or putting Parmigiano cheese on top.

    How long has it been since he ate on his own?
    Do his gums feel wet and slippery or kind of dry and sticky? Does his breath smell weird like nail polish remover?
    Are the vets open to you today? I would take him in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Most insulin doesn't start working until 2-3 hours after injection. Test again at +4. Can you add info to your signature? To set up a signature, click on your name at the top right corner and choose signature. Add info such as your pets name, date diagnosed, insulin type and dose, food you're feeding and any other health concerns.
     
  4. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    Sorry you aren't getting much response... It's 4:47 am on the east coast of the US and 1:47 am on the west coast. Most are sleeping right now.
     
  5. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    Urinated between 1AM and 7AM Was a good sized clump. He won't go in his litter box if we can see him. I hear him trying to go now and I have it covered and a container out with peas in it.
    Gums are wet and pink. He just got off my lap for first time since 7:30 and it is 10:45.
    He came out from his hidden litter box and stared until I removed the cover from it as he just looked like I had lost my marbles in trying to get him to pee in peas. I grabbed a ketone stick and while Oreo dug a deep hole he did not urinate. I got 3 cc water in him and of course he is gone now. Out of the room. Probably hiding.

    Oreo was kept in a cage for 2½ years on dry food. I switched him to wet diabetic friendly canned food low carb and high protein. Was on this board I found out about it a few years ago. Mjau is a Swedish brand. He will eat only chicken or turkey pate' and raw chicken for treats. He absolutely will not touch any other food except for a dry treat with 2 cal. He has refused them for 1½ weeks.
    I can't doctor his food up to tempt him as he has never been tempted. He won't even eat cooked chicken. I have a dish down with watered down pate'. The dish is raised up he just shakes his foot and walks away.

    Living in Sweden means that there is probably no other medication for a cat other than ProZinc and Caninsulin. No glucose/ketone monitors - Amazon takes 1 to 2 weeks to arrive and that is from England. Also the emergency vet is 3 hours away and we have more ice than road right now. Also we do not have several hundred dollars. I know if it were my child I would call an ambulance and the bills would be paid for here. We don't worry about cats here. Well a few of us do. Most let their cats with diabetes die or put them down.

    I will go and get him and assist feed him again. Now. But will be by the pc. Only have a 3cc syringe.
    +3½ 280
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Maybe try warming up his food a little to bring out the aroma and tempt him. I have a picky eater too that will eat no people food.

    They don't have ketone strips in the pharmacy for people to use? They are the same ones for cats, so that's surprising.

    Your cat is lucky to have you.

    I'm glad to hear he peed so at least we know it's not a blockage. Glad the gums are wet as well. Just keep doing what you're doing. The important thing is he eat enough to prevent fatty liver from developing, and to stay hydrated. You are doing a great job.
     
  7. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    He didn't pee just dug 12 inches down then left.
    I have the sticks but with no pee I can't test.
    I posted his BS did go down - 280 @3½
    Have him in a death grip got 5 cc water in and 2 tsp food
     
  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Good job. I am again concerned about the possibility of a blockage. They can be very dangerous in male cats in particular. Try stroking his lower abdominal area to see if pressure on his bladder may make him go.
     
  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  10. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    He went into the box again but nothing, I followed him and while I doubt he would ever go on the floor ( he went without food and water and no peeing or bm for 3 days in spring 2013 when we brought him home and couldn't find him for 3½ days. Still don't know where he hid. ) I rubbed his abdomen and he purred and left for the other room. Hear him in the box again. Just a small B.M. - I can't feel a lump where his bladder should be but then I have only checked adults for distended bladders. I have to leave the pc for a bit, am going to see if I can get him to cuddle in a non feeding or watering area.
    He hasn't had dry food in 4½ years so no crystals from dry food.
     
  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You said you changed his litter to peas? Maybe offer his old litter. The change may be preventing him from going.
     
  12. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Jul 6, 2017
    This is what I was thinking as I read this. Maybe he does not want anything to do with the 'weird' litter. I would make a box available with his normal litter.
     
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  13. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    When I saw he wouldn't even step in the pea's box I uncovered the litter box and the one time he dug and didn't go and the second time he dug and had a small bm. But he hasn't had water from his fountain since I started to watch 6 hours ago. Hubby is bringing him in to me for a BS and assisted feed and water now. +5 215
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  14. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry you're having such a hard time under difficult weather conditions. I have nothing much to add that hasn't been said. Cats with a blockage or cystitis will often try to pee repeatedly in many non litter box locations - bathtub, sink, on clothing or bedding, etc. There's often blood with or without mucus in it when they manage to squeeze out a few drops. They tend to vocalize with the pain.

    Syringe feeding pureed food and water is the right thing to do, along with giving insulin. I can't see your spreadsheet BTW. You need to click on the "share" icon then allow access to all of us who have the link. The BG at +5 isn't that bad all things considered.
     
  15. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    I click on share but it wants an address is it just the group email?
    Just got 6 cc water and small amount of pate' finger fed. He went to litter box and nothing.

    He refuses to pee anywhere other than the litter box. Like I said he went over 3 days when we brought him home and he didn't eat, drink or use the litter box he was busy hiding when we were up or knocking things over to break when we were sleeping When he finally got desperate he came out and did his business and then hid under the bed for 6 weeks. The water will go down without a fuss should I begin with that and get 12 cc in then assist feed and hope for a 2 or 3 T of food down him? Is that enough? I can give water more often but don't want to make him explode.
     
  16. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    When I click on the share icon, a menu drops down. I can click on "anyone with link can view" and then "done". Not sure I can be more helpful because I'm not very techie.

    I don't know what else to suggest other than carefully palpating his bladder region when you can. A full bladder should feel like a distended balloon.
     
  17. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    Ok can you see it now? No distended balloon.
    We have a good snowfall coming down now! Tuesday and vet back or at least the clinic is open again. IF we make it. I am letting myself get stressed. All of Jan. money is gone and I am into Feb - we paid for 2 vet visits 306 dollars and have 3 that we haven't gotten billed for. Now this yikes. Hubby to sick to drive anywhere even if we could. So glad you are willing to help me. Mostly worried about peeing but if he is going down in glucose he has had so little water that he can't have much in his bladder. He is really stressed out over all of this and I know he won't hate me because deep down he knows I love him and help him but unless told differently I will give water ( only have 3cc syringe) every hour. It is not for feeding so have a tiny place the needle should fit on. I aim it into his cheek and slowly dribble in as I see him swallow.
     
  18. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    I can see your SS now! I don't have any suggestions beyond what you've gotten already but wanted to give you some support! Keep us posted. :bighug::bighug:
     
  19. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Just finished a fruitless bladder massage with nothing happening. He is in and out of the litter box but can't go. I got 7 cc of water down at 3:40 pm and a bit of food. I wore water and food more than he did. He fights and pushes and pulls. I went in by hubby and told him that Oreo would die a painful horrid death and it was killing me. He said we will take him to the vet on Tuesday and have him put to sleep if you can't handle it. He knows we have no money for all this stuff and he has a point and there are no shelters that won't kill and besides he lived in a foster home for years in a cage! We ill have had him 5 years in April and it is just the last 6 months that I could pick him up or that he wanted to be held up against my shoulder and loved.
    If he doesn't urinate what do I expect? Everything that ever happened with my kids or pets has happened over a long holiday weekend here. I will skip some of my meds to pay for a vet visit on Tuesday but until then I have no place to go. Oh great I am a whiny old lady with a bad attitude and a migraine.
     
  20. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ugh I am so sorry. If he's in and out of the box he could have a crystal blockage. Serious in male cats especially. Do you have any organic apple cider vinegar?
     
  21. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    I think so do I give that in water and how much? Can he get crystals without having been fed dry food he hasn't had that in years.
    First one I found on Google was for cystitis 1 cap full vinegar to 1 quart water and I got 3 cc's in with much foaming of the mouth and dirty looks. Doubt it was organic but couldn't see the label said anything bad. I see on here it says 1/4 tsp to a bit of food so I under dosed him?
    I looked up crystals in male cat on the board and I only found the references to MY posts. lol

    Off to begin a meal. Will check back when I can in the next hour to see if I should make it stronger.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    Reason for edit: vinegar
  22. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you have any cosequine or dosaquin for arthritis that sometimes helps with inflammation.
     
  24. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I was able to cure one of my cats with a minor uti with acv.... Although I still think k it's important your cat see a vet as soon as possible if there's a complete blockage.
     
  25. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

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    May 30, 2010
    If he peed a large amount this morning, he’s not likely blocked. I have a cat who only pees once a day. Do you know how often he normally pees?

    I would definitely give him his old litter back and see what he does (unless you did and I missed it). And you said he won’t use the box if you are watching? So there’s no way he would let you slip a large spoon under his bottom as he squats?

    And just to be sure....even though the vet clinics are closed, there is not one “on call”? When we lived in Germany (and I know this is also true in France because a friend lives there now), if you call the clinic when it is closed, you can leave a message for an on call vet to call you back.

    It’s going to be difficult to get enough food in him with only a 3ml syringe. Is it possible the pharmacy might have larger syringes without needles or perhaps even your own doctor?

    If there is any possibility he has ketones, you have to get a lot of food and water in him. I’ll leave the insulin dosing to the PZ Members as I haven’t used that insulin.

    How about baby food....do they have it in the stores with just the meat and the meat broth (no vegetable broth).
     
  26. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017

    We hit pay dirt in the litter box. I heard the litter and rushed in by the box and grabbed the lumping kitty litter broke it open and shoved the Ketone stick in and squeezed it. Of course the litter made it look bad but as far as I can tell after wiping it off the first blue green one was the same . Of course the rush to his litter box helped me burn ½ of the meal. I had to eat that or have another sandwich! I will be testing and shooting in about 1 hour. Testing will go fast at 7:30 but then I must feed and water. That is the hard part. Maybe he will be better tomorrow and eating!! I will stay up until 1 AM to keep giving water and some food. HUGS and Thank you for babysitting me today.
     
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  27. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad he peed and isn't blocked! So no ketones?
     
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  28. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Try warming the food or adding warm water to the food to see if it entices him.
     
  29. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    YAY for peeing! I know that's a HUGE load off your mind. Maybe try to grab a nap sometime before 1AM...you are probably exhausted from today!
     
  30. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Sweden doesn't believe in feeding food until 1 year and then any food is mixed with everything else. No just meat or just chicken etc. I am having culture shock after 30 years of living here. posted reply wrong. I typed in after question. need to scroll back.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    Reason for edit: posted reply wrong
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  31. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    We are down to 181.8 can I still shoot 1½ ProZinc? I have been trying to feed for 30 min. I am not getting anything down him a tsp or 2
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    Reason for edit: Shooting and he won't let me assist feed
  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No, I wouldn't do that. You don't have a big enough collection of data to predict what he might do. You can stall for 20 minutes without feeding and retest. If his BG is rising shooting the full dose might be OK. You can repeat these 20 min stalls up to an hour total. If he gets above 200 post for advice. Another option is to shoot a reduced dose - maybe 1 unit?

    It would be very helpful to us if set up your "signature". That's the light grey text you see under out posts. Go to the upper right corner of this page and click on your name. In the menu that drops down click on "signature". A text box will open where you can put in the following:
    • kitty's name, age, date of diagnosis
    • insulin you use
    • glucose meter you use
    • what he eats
    • any other meds/health issues he has
    • link to your spreadsheet (open your SS, copy the URL from the top of its page and past it into the text box with the other signature info).
     
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  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't. It's hard to give dosing advice without seeing numbers. Do you write them on paper? Could you post your log?
     
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  34. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Janet, there's a link to the SS in the first post at the top of this thread.
     
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  35. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes. Ty I forgot. You are the experienced ProZinc user so I will defer to your expertise. If I knew we were writing at the same time I would have stayed quiet but didn't want her to shoot too much.
     
  36. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    If he won't eat much giving a full dose of insulin isn't safe. A small token dose could work. Not eating + dehydration (maybe) + not enough insulin = increased risk of ketones. Do your best to get as much food syringed into him as you can.
     
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  37. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    Posted SS he is up to 192.6. I can stay awake 4 more hours so thinking 1 U give a try at feeding at least some every 2 hours and glucose ck. Water as much as I can get him to take more often.
     
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  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a workable plan.

    Thanks for setting up your signature and putting a link to your SS there. :)
     
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  39. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    Thank you! Now I can put my head back and see if that headache leaves before his next feeding!!
     
  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Migraines are awful - I get them too. :(

    Just keep trying to get a little food into him at regular intervals.
     
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  41. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Put an ice pack on the back of your back and a heating pad on your Feet. It helps migraines.
     
  42. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to try that. I know an ice pack on my head helps me.
     
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  43. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    The heat on the feet draws the blood down and stops some of the pounding. A few excedrin with it and coffee.
     
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  44. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm well aquainted with the Excedrin/coffee remedy! :)
     
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  45. srk4cats

    srk4cats Member

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    Jan 19, 2017
    I know that when Chloe was dehydrated, it was very difficult to draw blood from her ear.
     
  46. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    I used to make a way to strong coffee with caffeine of course, and that helped. It worked for cluster headaches too. Now I get sick from coffee and the neuropathy in my feet is so bad that heat can make them sting for hours, so can cold. But I can try coke and ice!
    The boy is up to 214 and got 2½ tsp in and 6 cc of water the blood pops out before he knows I have his ear in my hand.
    Thanks all!!
     
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  47. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    A little luck with food and water but not much. Glucose is up to 255.6.
     
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  48. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad BG at all.
     
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  49. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Do you take b12 methylcobalamin for yourself? It may help with the foot pain.
     
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  50. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    Sweden doesn't have that I tried to get it several times. Sure would be nice!!
     
  51. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    At midnight Oreo got away from a feeding and went to the fountain and drank several long drinks. As you see on spread sheet he had gone from 181 to 256 before I went to bed. This morning at AMPS he is 356.4. Yesterday when he was so high I gave 1½U and he was a mess. The vet had said at his weight 14 pounds 15 ounces 1½ was his dose. I read about bouncing by changing amounts to fast but at 356.4 do I still only give 1U? I want to try 1½ - Feeding will be easier I found if I puree the food long enough I can draw it up in my only 3 cc syringe. I am going to assist again, testing and then will check back in a few minutes.

    Checked again and It was up to 379.8 so gave him 1½. If this was wrong I will know for future use.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
    Reason for edit: shot given glucose rising
  52. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Really? That's surprising. You can buy vitamins anywhere here. Pharmacies, online, grocery stores, even stores with just vitamins. Can you ask your dr to perscribe them and get it that way? Or order from Canada?
     
  53. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Yes, based on the numbers on your spreadsheet, 1.5u should be fine. As Janet said, B12 can be ordered from Amazon if it isn't available near you, though I believe B12 was available at Pharmacy when I was in Uppsala a few years back so you may just need to contact your primary care doctor or the pharmacist to find out how you can access the methylcobalamin version near wherever you live.
     
  54. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    When I asked the health store they said no and then I asked the Dr and he said that wasn't used and the next time I took my cat in I asked the vet. Nothing, but Djamila said there was and I found 2 places that have it. Swedish online vitamins - They come in lemon tablets to suck and the other is swallow. I should remember to check for things after a time. This quest for them was a few years back. Thanks.
     
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  55. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    How is your kitty this AM? Eating? Peeing? If you don't mind, removing the red 911 from your thread title is a good idea. We all have a panic attack when we see those. You now have a good discussion going here with people to help. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
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  56. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    A few years back I tried everywhere as I posted to Djamila but I see now that I should check again after not finding it. I sure hope it helps me! I had neuropathy 2½ years before I became diabetic.
    You will never believe this but I just gave Oreo 15 cc of pureed food and he came to lay on my lap and sat staring at his treat container. I put 2 down in front of him and he ATE both. His Glucose has dropped ½ from this AM - he is 190.8!!!!!
    It seems when I go back to 1 at bedtime he is so high in the morning. Of course the glucose sticks are running out I ordered them on Wed afternoon and the holiday means maybe Tue or Wed. But I will test at 7:30 pm and if low feed till it goes up so I can give him 1½ units.
    I guess that any posts about insulin I put here and any other problems go on the General health forum.
    Hope I see you there!! TY
     
  57. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    I'm glad to hear his appetite is starting to wake up! Come on Oreo!
     
  58. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

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    Oct 9, 2017
    He is still refusing food and is getting good at twisting his head back and forth at warp speed.
    Of course his old lady is getting worn out. He has eaten 3 tiny crunch treats the size of temptations. He waits by the refig for raw chicken and has even moved the teeny pieces I give him but not eaten. I just checked him and he is 122.4. I get 8 to 12 cc of pureed food and water down him and try and hit every hour ½ or 2 hours. He gets stressed but I keep thinking he will eat on his own. He has lost 2.2 pounds since Wed!! I just pureed a small piece of chicken and while he stared at it he didn't go for it. I pureed it for one last time and hopefully it will fit in the syringe. Come Tuesday I will get some feeding syringes from the pharmacy so I will never be using old ones that the rubber in the plunger wants to stick. If I feed him until his glucose is up do I give 1 unit if 200?
     
  59. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Jun 8, 2016
    If the 200 number is elevated only because of food then no. Preshot readings should not be food influenced or the cat could go too low when the food wears off. Your cats bg isn't high so I wouldn't worry about that at the moment. Just get food into him. Call your vet and see if he will ok a perscription for a food stimulant or nausea medicine such as cerenia. Then you could either just pick it up at the vet order it and have It mailed to you. Try any foods to get his appetite going... Even gravy food. Any food is better then no food. We want him eating on his own.
     
  60. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm so glad to hear you were able to find some B12! I hope it helps you! Hang in there on the feedings. I'm sure it's exhausting to both you and Oreo, but you know how important it is, so we send you encouraging thoughts! Have you tried cheese? Some cats really like parmesan, but you could try whatever you have on hand and see if he'll take a nibble. Janet is right - anything you can get him to eat right now is fine. Even if it's higher carb. Once he's eating better on his own you can get him back to healthier foods. :bighug: Hugs to you and Oreo!
     
  61. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I posted the only medication that we have in Sweden,according to the vet and she lied! a prescription, 1/4 tablet every 48 hours it was Friday morning that I gave it. I posted the name and I can't find those earlier posts. My back is so bad that I can't walk to the kitchen to check the name. I can barely move my head from the way I have to bend my head to hit his mouth and see the puree is going in. We have that one and what is awful is it is mostly for motion sickness and maybe help the appetite it is for kids. I googled it and it seems 4 tablets are available but not at the pharmacy in town but any pharmacy can mail it out and we can get it in the mail by Wed. Since they aren't used to ordering this what dose do I give? I can't get meds sent to me before Tues the pharmacy's are closed. I thought my guy would love his chicken but he acted like it was lemon juice! Time to feed again. I will hang in as long as I can and feed even 3 cc every ½ hour which seems like I can do that without a fight. I changed his weight in the signature area. Happy New Year's.
    Cerenia® Tablett 16mg Blister, 1x 4tabletter
    116:50 (15 dollars )



    I don't see that it helped.
    Wow you can tell that I never had a human diabetic pt and certainly never learned about giving insulin from my other non insulin diabetic cat. I don't take insulin. Thank God you answered.
     
  62. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Cerenia is for nausea and you give 1/4 tablet. I'm confused is your cat already taking it? You give it daily up to 5 days I believe. Perhaps an appetite stimulants would help. Two common ones are cyproheptadine, and mirtazapine.
     
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  63. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Oreo has refused all foods except chicken and turkey pate' or raw chicken breast. He hates any other food. Weird cat! My last diabetic cat was food controlled and she loved milk and cooked salmon and cheese and on and on. You would think this boy was born in a 5 star eating exactly what he wanted instead of being left in the woods to die at the end of the summer and then spent the next 2 years living on dry food in a cage in a barn loft. I tried to order the B12 but I clicked I was done with the order and it wouldn't go through but we have storms around. Thanks and Happy New Year's!!
     
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  64. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Haven't tried Cerenia and sure hope that he is eating before Wed or Thursday. I looked up the stimulants but it seems when they show it is available they are sent in requiring no prescription from another country and they want to know if I want Viagra too. I will call the vet on Tuesday morning and ask for cerenia and about the other 2 meds. The cyproheptadine is listed as Peractin and doesn't list for cats or appetite stimulant.
     
  65. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Happy New Year to you too! I hope the storms settle for you soon!
     
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  66. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I will look I think I can walk now. Oreo has had 5cc of chicken or cat food every 30 min and we are both done in. Will check the name of the med and post tomorrow. I know it was 1/4th tab every 48 hours no more than 5 doses. Hugs, Bonnie
     
  67. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    I am awake after such a sort time in bed. I heard Oreo choking but found nothing. I have been so totally zoomed in to Oreo that I thought it was Saturday yesterday!!The med from Vet was Mirtazapin Alternova 15 mg 1/4th tablet every 48 hours. That should have been done on Sunday which was yesterday for me!! Says it is to be used as an anti emetic and appetite. I am not sure Oreo is urinating but he did have one good sized lump in litter, I am just remembering the huge lumps he has always had. Broke the plastic litter scoop once. He didn't touch either of his food dishes so every 20 minutes I am giving him 3cc's. That way he won't get so stressed and doesn't have time to scream NO and fight and I am wiping his face and kissing him and telling him what a big boy he is. I can send Roger to the pharmacy for feeding syringes tomorrow!! My 5cc one just won't squirt any more.
    Purring but made he marched off my lap and was gone! So last feed was 5 AM Hubby carried him into me, I can't lift him today- Glucose is 145.8 no shot. Haven't seen him drink but he gets water in puree. +3½ He hasn't moved from my lap since 7:45 AM. He hates his feedings but hasn't moved to go to box or anything. I decided to test and see if his glucose had shot up. It has barely moved - + 3½ is 147.6
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
    Reason for edit: added glucose
  68. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Hopefully the larger syringes will help make this a bit easier for you and Oreo. The amount of pee goes way down when they get into better numbers. Happy New Year to you all!
     
  69. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Kris, I can't find where the hypo is I have to mark it. So worn out I can't walk. Is 3.7 something to give him syrup? found it but no numbers are given. help!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  70. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Did you give insulin this AM? Your SS isn't showing a dose in the box for dose. If you haven't given insulin you don't have to worry. How long after normal dose time did you measure the 3.7?
     
  71. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    No I put a 0 in the space he was 122.4
    or normal from what I remember. He was 122.4 at 7:30 at AMPS +7½ now Guess I didn't like the numbers 66.6
     
  72. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Bonnie,

    My heart went out to you reading this thread because I've been through similar. I can fully appreciate how exhausting things must be for you, both physically and emotionally. Oreo Joe is blessed to have such a loving and dedicated mama. You are doing an outstanding job of getting food into him under such difficult circumstances.

    :bighug:

    Reading through your posts above it really sounds as though Oreo is experiencing real problems with nausea. Also I note the following from your other thread in Feline Health:

    In addition to nausea and inappetence, hypothermia can be a symptom of feline pancreatitis (per FDMB Primer on Pancreatitis). I recommend letting your vet know about these clinical signs. If pancreatitis is suspected then Oreo Joe may also need pain relief (buprenorphine) to help him to start eating again. Note: a Spec fPL blood test can be run to help diagnose whether pancreatitis is the problem.

    Cyproheptadine (Periactin) is a human medication that can be used for appetite stimulation in cats. It may not have a licence for use in pets in Sweden. It doesn't have a veterinary licence in the UK but vets here can prescribe it under UK drug cascade rules if other licensed veterinary medication(s) don't work or if the cat has an adverse reaction to the other medication(s). Maybe a similar system exists in Sweden?

    We've seen here that a not-insignificant number of vets will insist that there is no need to prescribe additional anti-nausea medication when they prescribe mirtazapine. For a seriously nauseated cat, any anti-nausea effect that mirtazapine may exert is typically insufficient to help the cat overcome its eating difficulties. (It's certainly typical of what we see here in pancreatitis and DKA cats.) Let your vet know that the mirtazapine on its own doesn't appear to be helping Oreo Joe and that you are assist feeding round the clock to keep him eating.

    It can sometimes take a bit of persistence with the vet (or sometimes consultation with another vet) in order to secure additional, dedicated anti-nausea treatment. If a cat can't get any food down it is a life-threatening situation so if the cat still shows symptoms of nausea on mirtazapine alone don't delay going back to the vet to secure an Rx for specific anti-nausea meds. If the vet insists that mirtazapine alone has worked for all his other patients try to be as clear and firm as you can that it's not working for your cat, that you don't want your cat to develop fatty liver problems, and that your cat needs more help. The IDEXX document linked below may be very helpful in supporting your case in such circumstances.

    IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

    The above document gives very clear information on effective treatments for feline nausea (Cerenia, ondansetron) and inappetence (mirtazapine, cyproheptadine). Whether or not pancreatitis is the cause of Oreo Joe's eating difficulties, the treatments referenced in the IDEXX document for nausea and poor appetite should be generally applicable for these ailments even if the cause of the nausea is something else. (They are also used for cats with ketosis/DKA or CKD, for example.) A notable exception is where the cat is constipated. This, too, can cause nausea and put a cat off eating and the constipation needs to be resolved before normal anti-nausea and appetite stimulant meds will work properly. If your kitty has gone more than 2-3 days without pooping then a physical exam at the vets is needed to make sure that there's no GI obstruction or impacted faeces. Assuming no blockages, a few doses of metoclopramide (Reglan) can help normalise gut motility and with a consequent reduction in nausea symptoms. Thereafter the other meds should be effective. (NB: Check out the IDEXX document for reasons why Reglan is not suitable for general, intermediate to longer term nausea management in cats.)

    The above is general advice, Bonnie. I'm not sure whether there might be special circumstances in Sweden. I hope your vet will be able to help: if the right supporting treatments are in place it can make the world of difference to help get a kitty eating properly again and on the road to recovery.

    Keep doing what you can to monitor ketones in the meantime. More info here.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  73. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
  74. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Everyone has been so incredibly kind and helpful Thank You so much. Roger is headed for the Vets now to get the buprenorphine, then to the pharmacy in the opposite direction to get the medication for nausea. He is absolutely hating even the syringe feedings and I am going to wait with feeding until I get the pain med in him. It is not sold through even the animal pharmacy but the vet will draw up several syringes ( for oral feeding) as that is the only way we can get it.
    The vet said that since he hadn't eaten since the afternoon of Dec 29th and basically he is getting way to little food in himself that the prognosis is very poor of him pulling through.
    I am going to lose my baby! I feel like crying except that would give me more of a headache than I always have anyway. Hate permanent headaches and hate adding to them.
    I will post after I find out if the meds help. Thank you again.
     
  75. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Give it some time to see if the meds help before you panic. (I know that's easier said than done). The bupe should help if he's in pain and the nausea meds should help him feel better...I know this is scary, but one thing at a time. Let's see how the meds do and go from there...and we're here for you if you need to vent/cry/scream or whatever. We've all done it and we're happy to lend a shoulder! Hoping the meds help your baby... :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  76. Bonnie & Oreo Joe

    Bonnie & Oreo Joe Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2017
    Well will have to see how good the medication works for nausea will probably be another 24 hours. I popped the 1/4 tab down throat followed by water chaser and stroked him and held his mouth shut he purred and loved the scratching. 2 minutes later I kissed his head and told him I would see him later and he said ok see ya and spit a mouth full of foam, slippery saliva and lots of disgust and marched off. He is no longer curled in a ball on the bed he lays normal but he does enjoy cuddling. Except now he thinks I am a sneaky poop. The cleaning lady just arrived, brings all her own supplies! Is working in my room and vacuuming and I found out Oreo can run.
    The puree is 2/3 pate' 1/3 water He gets 12 cc every hour. Is this enough or to much?
    You all give good hugs.
     

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