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resolution of Roo's vet debacle!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Armish & Roo, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. Armish & Roo

    Armish & Roo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Previous thread:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-interpreting-urine-test-strip.215601/

    Thank you to all who listened to me vent my frustrations about the vet! I got on the phone just now and it was the nicer vet at the same practice who I met with the first time, instead of the crazy one from yesterday morning. She told me the fructosamine results just now, in the 500s so not great, but is wanting to start him on Lantus BEFORE my trip instead of after because of that!

    She just sent the prescription in and I have a vet tech appointment for later today or first thing tomorrow morning to learn how to give him the shot! She wants to do 0.5 units twice a day for now (I'm fine with anything at this point!) and then do a curve to asses how the dosage is doing once I get back from my trip.

    She was still reluctant about the home testing, and said she didn't see much value in it, but told me that I could continue and she was actually interested in comparing the ReliOn to the AT2. The compromise is that I will do my normal daily testing with ReliOn and do a curve to adjust dosing with AT2 - fine with me!

    Spent about an hour talking with her on the phone discussing details and talking about the research I did. I definitely feel heard and validated compared to the vet I saw yesterday who made me feel like I was stupid and crazy. She even let me choose between Lantus and Prozinc instead of deciding for me.

    You guys I can't even tell you how happy and relieved I am that he is going to be starting insulin before the trip! Feels like such a weight has been lifted :D

    TLDR: the vet I saw yesterday was too wild, but the other one at the practice is so nice and wants to help me help my bub!

    :bighug:
     
  2. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Everything rolls along great until she hit that 'home test' brick wall. NEVER ever would I give a powerful hormone like insulin without being sure it's safe to even give! My vet didn't support home testing but I found here and learned. I learned to test on July 27th. On August 12th, a bit less than 3 weeks later, if I hadn't been home testing, I would have shot a full dose of a hard driving insulin into what was already a hypo number (40) and gone about my day....until I found him, likely too late. That was in 2011 - I've only had a 1.5 month break between sugar babies (<--oh that was AWFUL), I NEVER have given a dose if I couldn't test in all those years...

    I like how she actually listened! Feels SO SO good!!!!
     
  3. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Was silently following your story and too upset with your vet to comment. Delighted the tides have turned thanks to the other vet. I can only imagine how relieved you must be to finally be "heard" and able to get Roo on the road to better health! :joyful:
     
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  4. Marianne M

    Marianne M Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Bravo for you standing your ground. Sometimes people just don't click together and it's time to more on. Glad that Roo will be joining the rest of our sugar babies to better health.
     
    Armish & Roo likes this.
  5. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    HOORAY !!!! thank goodness there is some intelligence lurking in that vet clinic ! so happy for you and Roo ! :joyful::bighug::joyful::cat::cat:
     
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  6. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Excellent news. thanks so very much for sharing. Now you can ease your mind a little bit, and go forward with getting little Roo to feeling better. It's a relief to those who have been reading and responding also. Doing a little jig here.
     
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  7. Armish & Roo

    Armish & Roo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Thank you all so much! Guess I can start a new condo in the Lantus forum :nailbiting:

    Before I head over there, quick question - I can pick up the Lantus after work but can't see the vet tech until tomorrow to learn the technicalities of shooting (how to pull the dose, etc). I think I've read enough to attempt it on my own tonight, should I? I think I'll be able to do the dose right, I'm just worried about actually shooting it in him without freaking myself out - any advice? Should I try it or wait til tomorrow? If I do it tonight, I'm going to try to stay up as much as possible to monitor how it affects him.

    What an adventure!
     
  8. TSP

    TSP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Thats awesome news! Good for you:)!! And whether it be you or your cat, never, ever feel stupid or crazy! If an MD of any specialist talks to you in a way that makes you feel that way RUN!! It's not you its them & do yourself a favor & cut bait & move on!!
     
  9. TSP

    TSP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    One thing I can say is my cats fructosamine was like yours with respect to being high & with Lantus the numbers don't take dives like they do on insulin like Vetsulin, so I wouldn't be overly concerned about him having issues--especially with such a low dose.

    Have you ever given an injection to yourself or others? Also, as far as freaking yourself out, you know yourself best :)...the main thing I would want is for both you & Roo to have the best experience as possible. If you don't have a great experience, how quickly will you (&Roo) get over it? If you think it will freak you or Roo out & set you up for being upset the next time, I personally would wait.
     
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  10. Armish & Roo

    Armish & Roo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    I haven't ever given anyone an injection, but I have been testing blood daily for a while now which I NEVER thought I would be comfortable doing (I hate blood and pokey things) - I think because I know its for him vs me I can power through and be confident. I think going to re-watch a bunch of videos on drawing and shooting, load up on my anxiety meds and go through the motions of doing a shot tonight. If I feel confident about the process I'll go ahead and try it, but if not, I'll wait til tomorrow's vet tech appointment!

    Do you have any tips on shooting, or videos/reading about shooting that you found particular helpful? Trying to be a sponge right now :bookworm:
     
  11. Tracey&Jones (GA)

    Tracey&Jones (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2016
    Glad you found a vet that is willing to work with you. Mine is like that and I think it ends up providing the best care for the furkid.

    I am also shocked to hear the vet didn't like the human meter. Mine vet told me to go pick one up, didn't care what brand from my local pharmacy and gave me a human meter to use till that was done. She loved Jones' spreadsheet and was good with human numbers.
     
  12. TSP

    TSP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Good plan re: if you feel confident....confidence will help Roo :) because they pick up on our emotions for sure! I had a cat years ago who had my #!!

    My 1st shot was easy because he had no idea of what was happening....by the 2nd shot he was on to me! I just tented below his should blades & did it. Key is don't hesitate. Be confident, think of a song, whatever calms you down. With the insulin & the BGs my guy does NOT like a ton of attention before they are done. He's a "don't freeze the kicker" guy, so he doesn't want a lot of love & pets before while other cats (& I had one like them) love the "spa" time. With that being said, I do give him a couple of rubs vs just sticking the poor man unexpectedly. Now he waits for me & knows its time. Others want all the attention & love in the world before & after the injection! That part is trial & error & you will figure out what Roo prefers quickly. Most also give some sort of treat after as well & my guy likes that! He will come looking for me if he didn't get his treat!

    I do draw my insulin about 20 minutes or so before in order to warm it up which is supposed to make it feel less painful. Pharmacist & vet said cold insulin can sting. I also recently changed from 29G to 31G syringes (finer needle) & also a shorter length of needle (8mm vs 1/2") but some like the longer needle to avoid a fur shot but I don't have that issue with him so I went shorter.

    T flinched a little, but not every time, with the larger needle but doesn't flinch at all with the current one.

    I'm not sure how much that helps, but its just things I've learned with T & from a previous cat we had who needed injections & subQ fluids.

    I'll be sending positive injection vibes your way! YOU'VE GOT THIS!!!! :):cat:
     
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  13. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    100 years ago I was a nursing student and they had us practice giving injections using an orange, before we started sticking people. You can repeat using a single syringe, since even as the needle degrades with each injection, it's not going to hurt that orange. (We don't use any previously used syringes for actual injections). Try drawing up some colored water so you can see what it looks like in the barrel. There is a section on drawing insulin in the Lantus forum yellow tagged stickies, and lots of videos out there.
    Using the orange you won't be able to roll or tent the skin on Roo to be sure it's going into the skin and not the muscle, but it might help a bit with actually poking that needle into something. You can practice rolling or tenting the skin before you inject. Take your time, don't be nervous.
    I hope you are getting an Rx for the pens, not the vial. You can use the pen as a min-vial using the syringes.
    It's very hard to use up the insulin in the vial before it begins losing effect with cats, unless they are high dose kitties, and I don't anticipate Roo will be. Proper storage is key, middle shelf in the fridge, and with pens you can use the insulin to the last drop, before needing to go to the next pen.
    My vet and vet tech told me to roll the Lantus bottle when we were there, wrong! Read the stickies Armish, so you can start out on the right foot. I am hoping you will be able to be in contact with the board while you are away so you can ask questions and get answers.
     
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  14. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I have seen a lot of different videos on you tube about giving the shot. Just google giving cat an insulin shot and some will come up, look at all of them. My cat was good with the shot right from the very beginning. I just pet him for awhile and he just sits there, then grab his scruff feel for the tent and just inject. If I don't like the tent I feel I just grab it again. Sometimes when I poke him to see what his BG is before I feed
    Him he is fast asleep and doesn't even wake up. You can do it. Just take a look at the videos again. Good luck, let us know how it goes
     
  15. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi I'm Diane, Tyler's mom and I was just reading your vet told you to roll the Lantus bottle and you said wrong, Tyler is on Vetsulin and my vet told me to roll it. Is it just for just Lantus you do not roll or is it for all Insulin, like Vetsulin. I'm wondering if I should not be rolling it @Idjit's mom
     
  16. TSP

    TSP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Hi. My cat was on Vetsulin up until a week ago & you actually "Shake" that vial..yes..shake it. It was pulled from the market a few years ago & when it returned the main change was the percentage of short acting to longer acting part in it & directions in the PI to shake it so that the different parts of it are evenly distributed. Lantus & historically, you don't roll, & definitely don't shake insulin.

    Here is the package insert for Vetsulin: "SHAKE the vial thoroughly...."

    https://www.vetsulin.com/pdfs/Vetsulin-Package-Insert.pdf

    And here's the news article from when the drug was re released & the changes Merck made including the need to shake it

    https://news.vin.com/vinnews.aspx?articleId=27027
     
  17. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Really so if your cat is on Vetsulin I should be shaking it
     
  18. TSP

    TSP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Yes. I edited my comment so check it for the link to the package insert & news story
     
  19. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Just reading it , so when you shake it it says it should have a milky color, sorry I'm sort of new
     
  20. TSP

    TSP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Exactly! It will have a milky color which helps with seeing your dosing :). My lantus is thicker & clear...SO much harder to see.
     
  21. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I'm glad I saw this , thanks so much
     
  22. TSP

    TSP Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    There are 2 suspensions of insulin so they need to be mixed well. Happy I can help! I was a bit angry when I saw that after using it for awhile. I was rolling it but that certainly is much different than SHAKING:mad:
     
  23. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    I don't think my vet or the vet tech was that familiar with Lantus, and you don't shake or roll Lantus. I think they just kind of transferred previous knowledge of the Vetsulin and misinformed me.

    Always read the insert with whatever you are using and be sure to read the stickies at the top of the specific insulin support group that applies. There is specific information for handling each insulin properly.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
    Reason for edit: Delete comments
  24. Marianne M

    Marianne M Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Wow I was suppose to be SHAKING the Vetsulin. My vet specifically made sure to tell me to roll it not shake it. We've been switched to Prozinc now. Maybe we didn't need to change?
     
  25. Armish & Roo

    Armish & Roo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Update: after a long day of meetings and working late, just got home with a Lantus pen and ReliOn syringes with half unit markings! Gonna give myself a few minutes to breathe and then will test feed, and maybe shoot? Will update everyone if its successful!
     
    CandyH & Catcat likes this.
  26. Idjit's mom

    Idjit's mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2018
    Yay!!! You will do well. You are taking good care of Roo, you picked your battles, you persisted and here you are!

    FYI, if you think you have given a fur shot (not actually injecting all the insulin in) don't inject again. You don't really know how much might have gone under the skin. And don't feel bad if that happens, even the members that have been doing this for a long time have it happen. Just mark it on the spreadsheet as a FS (fur shot).
     
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  27. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    reading my current Vetsulin insert:

    Shake the vial thoroughly until a homogeneous, uniformly milky suspension is obtained. Foam on the surface of the suspension formed during shaking should be allowed to disperse before the product is used, and, if required, the product should be gently mixed to maintain a homogeneous, uniformly milky suspension before use.

    okay -- well -- the vet showed me how to shake it as vigorously as the paint store shakes the cans before use (or the ballplayers shake the champagne before popping the corks)

    that produced a LOT of foam in the vial, and it didn't want to disperse, not nohow -- not even after an hour

    I do shake my vial, but it's more of a firmly vigorous tipping back and forth and up and down and around -- kind of like a Tilt-A-Whirl/Octopus at the carnival
    or I'm imagining I'm an aerobatic pilot doing an airshow

    that produces bubbles, not foam, and tapping the vial tends to let the bubbles rejoin the rest of the liquid -- it's certainly uniformly milky with no flakes or suspensions within
     
  28. Armish & Roo

    Armish & Roo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019

    Attempted my first shot! Probably a FS, darn his beautiful and luxurious and long coat. Might have the vet tech shave a patch for me tomorrow just to make it easier in the first days? Posted on the Lantus form here, if anyone wants to follow along!
     

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