Ruben just had bad diarrhea

Newly diagnosed cat just had explosive diarrhea. He's only had a little more than quarter can of wet at 8 last night and about the same 8 this morning. Never had wet in his life. He doesn't feel well, I can tell. Was only diagnosed last night. At 8 will be his 3rd injection at home. Nervous he's not gonna eat if he doesnt feel well. What should I look for? I'm panic stricken since I've found out. Is he Ok? Could that little food go through him that quick? I pulled his dry up at 5 hoping by 8 he would be hungry.

 

Poor boy! It probably is the wet. What kind are you feeding him? He has never had any wet before ever?

You might want to transition him to wet more gradually. Is he still eating?

 

Never had wet before. Vet sent me home with purina dm wet and dry. I'm going on Fri. and am going to talk all wet, but she it is absolutly fine to feed dry it's the carb/ protein content that matters. I'm so confused. She is a specialist but every one here has experiance. Having a hard time trusting my own decision. I only fed a little bit, can't believe it went through his little system that quick. Ugh! just want him to feel better. When I brought him in he was fine!!!! Seems like ever since he's been home he feels crappy. Wish he could tell me.

 

Vet called back said if it continues often through out the night to bring him in, but if it's only 1x-2x more just monitor him. I said is he going to be ok, she said I hope so...Ugh. I know she can't ever say for sure but that makes my mind go crazy. In all aspects of my life I'm a sane individule. My love for Ruben is so deep and so intence, I can't thinl straight. I don't have Karo syrup yet. OMG HE JUST VOMITED NOW and now hes in the litter

 

Vet called back said if it continues often through out the night to bring him in, but if it's only 1x-2x more just monitor him. I said is he going to be ok, she said I hope so...Ugh. I know she can't ever say for sure but that makes my mind go crazy. In all aspects of my life I'm a sane individule. My love for Ruben is so deep and so intence, I can't thinl straight. I don't have Karo syrup yet. OMG HE JUST VOMITED NOW and now hes in the litter. calling them again

 

When did you last shoot the insulin and how much?

His stomach could be really upset cos of the food, or something else.

I am going to look for an experienced user to come across.

We can discuss all the other diabetic stuff (like what to feed and why , and testing etc) once we get this sorted out.

 

Hold on giving the shot for now until we get another experienced user here. I am guessing you arent home testing yet?

 

I'm thinking it shouldn't be just the food that is behind this. It sounds like he's eaten less than a whole can of canned? I understand he's never had canned food in his life, but.... what brand/flavor? Is there any chance it was "bad"? Is there an expire date on the can?

I have a cat, non-diabetic, named Mullet. Last year, he has the same problem, only it was more a diarrhea than a vomiting problem. Is there any way that your cat got into something he shouldn't have gotten into? In Mullet's case, it was semi-sweet chocolate. I was shocked at the effect it had on him, but it's toxic to cats. If he'd eaten more, it could have been deadly. Maybe not chocolate, but can you think of anything he may have eaten or drank since last night that was a potential cause for this?

I would see if you can get him to the vet tonight if possible. If this goes on for long, he could also become dehydrated, which will add to the problems.

I'd also hold off on the insulin if you haven't shot yet. This sounds like the greater crisis right now.

Carl

 

She hasnt gotten back. I think she went to the vet. I am worried it was a hypo and she isnt testing yet so its the best place for her.

 

Also, we determined he's on Lantus, correct? What dose has he been getting?

Carl

 

Yep hes on lantus. I hadnt gotten a response to dose. Plus she ditched the dry last night from what I can tell.

 

Wonder what canned it was....I have a civie here that will do that on anything with tuna in it...most fish he is fine with but tuna it is two exits no waiting.

Also could be hypo so hopefully she is at the vets right now and will update us later <fingers crossed>

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

purina DM...here is her other post http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=87521

 

OMG a huge THANK YOU for all who posted. He had the diarrhea like I said then vomited so much I couldnt describe then ran immedialty into the litter. Rushed him into the e.r. they gave him fluids, meds to help w the nausua and sent me home with metronozanole (spelling?) I just gave him his first dose of that now. He did just have more diarrhea but I assume its ok cause just gave him meds. They say if he's lathargic in the am to bring him back in immediatly and they'll hospitilize him..sigh. He was beyond absoloutly fine when I brought him (which for a colonoscopy) minor blood in stool for 2 yrs wanted piece of mind about it. they tested his sugar and it was 400. so we swwitched gears. ever since he has been rapidly declining. He was free feeding before this newmans organic. since I brought him home yesterday i mixed a little purina dm dry to his regular and only gave a little purina wet before his shot to make sure he ate. total he ate less than a whole can. My other quesion is I have another cat. should I seperate incase she can catch it. Even the vets said they don't know what this could be but that it is unusual.


Again, thank goodness for this forum and everyone here. feel alone and scared. You all help.

 

to bob and carl,
I'm rather confident he didnt get into anything, spent most of the day laying around, ate and drank little.

 

Kinda confused... When did he have the colonoscopy?

What did the vet say about continuing feeding the DM? Or giving the shots?

 

Sorry to be so confusing, just super stressed. He went to have one. They never did it cause they notice his BS was 400 so we had to post pone the procedure to deal with this current situation. This diarrhea and vomiting is now something else. Doctors dont think its related to diabetis. They said pull up his food tonight. tomorrow if he eats (they said just give him what he's used for now) then give him his normal dose (which is low 1mm) but if still larthargic and not eating bring him back they'll have to hospitilize him. It makes me sick to bring him there. He gets soooo stressed. Afraid it makes him worse but have to do the right thing and bring him. wish I could explaine to him why. Oh I'm so concerned. Please pray everyone.

 

I know I just brought him home, but I can tell he still don't feel good. I also know the med takes time to work for the diarrhea but he's been in the litter box 2x and still has the runs but nothing really come out. feels like he has the urge. Could he be allergic to the insulin, Is that even a possibilty?

 

Prayers on there way for Ruben....we will have all our fingers, toes, paws and tails crossed (which the folks here can tell is a lot of paws and tails crossed) here that it was just one of those days and he will be right as rain tomorrow.

A couple of things you can do that will help both you and Ruben greatly is 1) let us teach you to home test and 2) get some Ketostixs so you can test his urine for ketones....both will give you a great peace of mind and keep Ruben safe while on insulin.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

You'll both be in my prayers,

If you have to leave him at the vet, please be sure to leave something with him that'll remind him of you. A pillow case, shirt, sweater, just something he'll be able to smell and it will make him feel safer even if you aren't there.

Carl

Edit to add-
Anything is possible I suppose, but I can't recall reading here where insulin caused diarrhea.

 

On I see. I doubt he is allergic to insulin. He probably is feeling still odd in the tummy but is empty now.. The metronidazole could even be kicking in and clearing him up.

Tiggy had bad diarrhea recently and would run to the box only to do one drop of diarrhea. The metronidazole started working within a day.

Try not to worry, your vet sounds like he is on top of it.. Just make sure he is comfortable and has plenty of water and we will keep our paws crossed for you.

Guys - could this be pancreatitis?

 

How is he doing today? If you go to the vet , ask about pancreatitis just in case.

let us know
Wendy

 

Thank you all and thank goodness for this forum. The vet gave him fluids last night and some anti nausea med. They sent me home with med for the diarrhea (metronozanole) < I'm a horrible speller and dont have the med in front of me-sorry anyway, Got up this morning, only gave him his reg newmans organic food (dry) incase it was the DM wet or dry that made him ill last night. I measured 1/4 cup and he ate very very little. Called vets (OSVS-RI) and they said try some fancy feast wet, just to get him to eat. went to store grabbed that, Karo syup, non clumping litter and ketostix. Gave him half the fancy feast can and again ate a little less than 1/4 can. I then gave him his 1unit dose. He does seem better than yesterday but can tell he is off. Vet said if does not eat tonight to bring him in. I feel like he's a big experiment right now. Changing eating habits, changing food, not positive the dosage of insulin. I am new to all this and have no confidence in my judgement. I have called the vets litterally about 10x this morning. They are all nice but how do I know what is right. We are both resting now. I set out different litter box with the new litter if I notice him pee I am going to try to get a reading with the stick, but again have no Idea what that will tell me but I do know it will at least let me know about ketones. I also am learning that it s not a go by for the insulin but until I can learn to home test this is all the action steps I think I can take. I am also looking to switch specialists at my vets. I know the vet now is competant but her and I are not having the relationship I need to care for ruben the best. I admit I am not the easiest mom to deal with but she doesn't seem to think home testing is required and I know it is. She seems a little over confident and when I question her its the attitude on you have to trust me or not. Where I need that reassurance. I am going to see her Fri to check Ruben's BS but am hoping to switch to someone else soon, but want to continue to go to her than not go at all. I am understanding that there is a learning curve for both Ruben and myself til we get him regulated, but it is sooo hard to stay calm and in controll. I am a basket case. I go from crying to being okay then back to hysteria in seconds. I am 38 w no children and have become a vegan, solely based on this special relationship with little Ruben. I have had animals my whole life but none have touched me or connected with me like him. So I feel like my whole world (which is him) is falling out from under me. I know I need to be okay because he will sence it off me, but having a hard time controlling my emotions. I love him soooo much and so deeply.
Thank you all for responding. I know I would be worse with out this place. Please continue to pray for us.

 

I just tried to do a Ketostix reading. I put a little of tidy cat non clumping long lasting odor controll litter multi cat < thats all the non clumping litter they had at the market. I dipped the stick in the litter and it read normal, which is fantastic but it was in the litter. I put less in this time to try again. Could the litter alter the reading significantly or should I feel confident and good the it read normal or is it completely unreliable based on the type of litter? oh so confused. going in crazy circle in my head. Also I didn't have timer but I did count for 15 seconds. but I'm so crazy stressed who knows if it was acurate enough. Oh I'm becoming a looney tune. lol

 

A way to check if the litter will affect the reading is to take a little bit, wet it with plain water and stick a ketostick in it....if it still reads normal then the litter isn't going to affect the reading and you can feel safe in knowing that you got a true reading off Ruben.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Deep breaths! :smile:

FOOD - Its good if he will take fancy feast ( as long as its the classic pates) as they are low carb and great for diabetic cats. If he ate 1/4 can then thats good.. just keep offering it to him. I have added extra ideas for things to tempt him with to get him eating (see way below).

DIARRHEA - Any diarrhea today? It might take a few days for him to feel better - I am sure you know how it is and have had it yourself!

TESTING
1. Well done on getting the karo syrup and ketostix. Those are very important. As is home testing as you know - sooner we start on that the better but lets worry about that in a couple of days once he is feeling better and you are calmer!
2. Litter testing - you did the test on clean litter to start right? You need to get it wet though. So take a tablespoon of clean litter and mix with a tablespoon of water . Mix well and then dip in the strip. It should be clear. Then you know you are good to go with the cat pee. Best to use a timer though because if you wait a little too long you can get a false positive,

VET - If you like we can ask around to see if there is a better diabetic vet in your area? What state and city are you in?

Dont worry there are a lot of people here with tons of expertise in this.. they really can help as much as you let them. I am here, waiting and watching on your posts.

Wendy

IDEAS TO GET A CAT TO EAT

 

This forum is all my good karma coming back to me. I called the vet to ask about the litter before I checked here. They said I shouldn't do any testing as of now that their going to go over all that with me Fri. Ugh, it's frustrating that they are using a guessing game with him, but they assure me that they are the experts that I will begin testing, but to just hang in there for now. I picked up his food for now with hopes he'll eat all his food around 9 tonight before his next dose. He's always been super healthy so this is harder for me to except. I am also holistic and am always hesitant to western medicine. I do know he needs insulin and am going to follow all instructions. I just like to be more on the conservitive side. Fingers crossed he will eat tonight. Thank you for the idea's on how to intise him. Like I said before I am a vegan and handling or buying other food animals for me is very difficult, but I will do anything for Ruben. Anything. I'd even go hunting for him...lol If you all knew how much I love all animals you would all be rolling at that statement. lol He seems much better today than yesterday. though I haven't noticed him drink yet, but I've been exhausted and might have missed it.
I am curruntly out of work due to a neurological disorder. What a blessing it is. lol thought I'd never say that. but at least I'm home with him for hopefully the next 2 weeks. Bad thing is stress makes my condition worse and puts me at high risk for stroke. I'm not overly worried about a stroke though, cause I KNOW I have to be okay for him. A whole new reason to focus on getting better myself. I am not the issue here though, just letting you all know you could be saving 2 lives. I checked the litter water test and it seems like it was normal, (the litter did turn black and kinda stuck to the stick but it didn't look like it changed color) For now I guess I'm not gonna test, let my poor other cat out of the room and let them be as natural as they can be. Minus the free feeding their used to. He seems better than yesterday. He hasn't pooped yet, but thats cause he hardly ate. Not overly worried about that. 9pm will be the real test. Til then I think I'm gonna try to hang tight and stress free. (hahaha- yeah right..lol) but I am gonna try. Open to any input about how to handle the rest of the day. Do you all think its okay to not keto test? I do not have a glucometor yet. I can't tell how much the vets are urging against testing 2x a day. they also said I need to get the ketostix either in the stream or in pure urine? WHAT? with a cat how is that possible, anyway they say their gonna teach me Fri. I'm stuck with that other vet til the one I was reccomended get back from a seminar. I did leave him a voicemail with my concerns. Hope to hear form him soon. Til then gonna stick with Dr. Kessler, better to keep him under care. I am in RI and am at Ocean State Vet specialist. They are a 24/7 e.r. and do not do regular vet appoinments. They will however keep him under regular care with Ruben til we regulate him. I love the practice and am sure Kessler is compitant, just not as warm as I need her to be for me. I am open to all reccomendation to vets after OSVS get him regulated.
Again THANK YOU ALL!!!!!!! Can't even put into words what your knidness has menat to me. again you all could be saving two lives.

 

Try not to stress too much - he will be fine once you both get over this hump.

TESTING:
They are going to go over testing with you? a few things..
1.if they try to sell you on a cat glucometer to measure his blood, you dont need it. Human ones are cheaper and just as reliable.
2. if they tell you not to blood test at home, then you really do need a new vet or be prepared to ignore them!
3. if they want to keep your cat for a day and run a "curve" then say no too - its expensive and inaccurate and you are better doing it at home yourself. Anyway listen to what they tell you but come home to "think about it" first and lets discuss!

KETONES:
Its definately good to test for ketones. i think most people here check once a week, more often if the cat is prone too them or if the blood sugar gets over 360. http://www.felinediabetes.com/ketones.htm Pure urine is better - some people shove a soup ladle under the cats rear end while they pee to collect it. Others replace the litter with fish tank gravel ( not absorbent) temporarily and collect the pee. I use a wet pee patch in the same way as you used the dry (grab a tablespoon of wet pee and mix with a little water).

Rest of the day? Read this : http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=33671 and then grab a glass of wine (or tea or something relaxing) and relax with your kitty. Follow him to the litter box and do a ketone test if you can. I would continue to free feed- not sure why you took away his food.

Wendy

Wendy

 

I took his food away in the hopes 1. he will be hungry tonight and 2. to get him used to the two times a day feeding? Think I should do different?

 

I agree with #1, because he's more likely to eat at shot time if hungry.

#2, though. He doesn't need to eat just twice a day. You want him to eat at shot times, but he can eat other times too. Like human diabetics are told to eat multiple small meals per day, same with cats. You just want to withhold food in the two hours or so before his shots, because when you test him then, you'll want a BG number that is not boosted by eating, like a fasting BG.

What's important now is to get him back to having a good appetite. Once that happens, you can figure out a feeding schedule that works well for him and for you.

Carl

 

Did the vet advise you to limit him to 2 meals a day? Most cats around here often eat numerous small meals throughout the day as it leads to a "softer" blood-glucose curve: more of a gently sloping hill than a steep mountain peak (which can make Kitty feel crummy). If you're testing (or once you start testing), it is suggested to remove food two hours before testing/shot time as it can skew the pre-shot BG values.

Are you still having trouble transitioning him to wet food? Not sure if I missed it and someone else already provided it for you, but here is a great website with tons of information about the obligatory carnivore's diet and help transitioning finicky cats from dry to wet food. It also has a food list with all the nutritional values of available commercial cat food (most cats need less than 10% carbs).

 

Based on posts sin this forum I do not agree with your statement "Most cats around here often eat numerous small meals throughout the day "

 

It's partially from this discussion as well as frequent posts by others regarding their feeding regimens. ECID, which is why I said most cats. Since her cat is used to grazing, this might work out better for her.

 

Honestly I'm so confused. I'm out of work at the moment. But when I return I work 7:30-12 then 2:30-7 So I'm thinking he will be on a 7 and 7 schedule. I'm not liking the specialist I have now. How do I find a good vet in my area. I dont just need one to care for ruben but for me as well too. Kinda overly sensitive when dealing with little ruben. As far as feeding goes, I'm just so concerned he eats before I give him his shot. I have not started testing and this new vet is adimitt about NOT home testing. He was diagnosed Mon. 21st going back this Fri. He hasn't drank much at all today, should I be worried. Who am I kidding, I haven't stopped worring. lol. Well he seems much better than the episode he had yesterday. Going to give him his shot at 9. So just trying to be calm and wait til then.
Again Thank you all!!! it's nice to be embraced in a community especially one that loves their aniaml like I do mine

 

We are all cat ladies.. Including the guys

How much lantus is he getting? It's important to give him the shot every 12hours.. Give or take 15minutes. So if you shot at 8am you want to shoot at 8pm. Once you return to work we can gradually move his shot by 15minutes each time until he is at 7 and 7.

Post a new thread with subject "recommended vets in Rhode Island?" And see if you get some responses.

I disagree strongly about home testing as would most people here. It's the only way to keep your cat safe.. And it doesn't hurt the cat so I don't know why your vet wouldn't agree to it! My vet recommended it to me and it has saved my cats lives a few times when they almost had a hypo.

If he is eating wet food he might not need to drink as much but you could try and tempt him with water from the tuna can (water not brine) or chicken broth(no onions).

As regards feeding, for now I would stick to his usual feeding schedule, once you start testing you will know how he reacts to food and if you need to change that!

Let us know how much lantus he gets each shot,
Thanks
Wendy

 

Ugh, the more I read the more I know I need to test. I bought the wrong stix apparently. Just ketostix not he ketodiastix. Good news is it is way easier to get a pee sample then I thought. Just put a cooking spoon under him and whala, fresh pee. bad news is wrong stix. but he did test normal. I am giving him 1unit of lantus, but am not testing. I'm going on Fri. Shoudl I get a glucometer test before that? keep in mind I have no idea how to or what to look for, but that's why I have all of you. I am def switching vets but staying with her til I find one. She is an internist and specialist. I am still learning as I have no idea ranges and know that a test doesnt' accuratly represent how the insulin is working overall. but at least if I test I'll know wether he's in danger, or am i wrong? so clueless. Need step by step instructions on how and when to feed, test, and what to feed. I'm curruntly swithcing to from an all dry food to fancy feast wet 2x a day? If you read this post from the begining, you'll know he had a bad episode last night. (don't think it was diabetis related) worried about diarrhea again but he is on metronoznal.
(side note, please excuse my lack of spelling and any attention to grammer-just more concerned with getting all this out of my head and into here than worring about the details)

 

He's getting 1unit of Lantus every 12hrs. Also I'm vegan so have no animal products in my house at all (minus rubens food) So I do not have chix stock or tuna. I will get some tomorrow (hopefully) Never thought I woudl say that...lol funny what we will do for family.

 

Ehh,, forget the grammar. I am typing on my iPad and it autocorrects pretty well, most of the time so I am ok!

Those strips are good for ketones so you are fine, the ketodiastix also test urine glucose but it doesn't matter so much especially if you are home testing blood glucose - which you will be soon hopefully!!!.Great news there are no ketones.

Would be good if you could get a glucometer before the vets, it would help them know what's going on too,, plus you could take it to the vet to see how much yours varies from theirs! (There will be a difference and its good to know)
The Walmart relion range Is popular here because they are cheap and reliable. Or the arkay. The relion prime seems to be cheapest for glucometer and strips but it needs more blood that the relion confirm so it can be harder to use if your cat isn't a bleeder. Are his ears generally warm or cool to touch? If warm you might have a bleeder let me know if you are going shopping and I will provide a shopping list

What weight is he? Would you say he was over or under weight?

As I said above, personally I would feed him the same way you do normally for now. And transitioning to fancy feast classic pâtés is a great idea. Let me know what weight he should be and I can give you an idea of how many calories he should get a day.

We can help with when to test and what to do .. Especially if you are willing to set up a spreadsheet (we can tell you how) and post on a regular basis.


Wendy

 

Personally I would get a glucometer as soon as possible and start learning to test at home...It has saved both of my diabetics on numerous occassions even with all the years of experience I have with feline diabetes. In fact with Maxwell it is probably the reason he is still with me, you see I adopted him as a diabetic, so I had no clue what normal behavior was for him. He spent 2 weeks in foster care while transport was arranged to get him from Boston Mass. to me in Hastings Nebr. He was started on 1u twice a day and at the same time had his diet changed from dry kibble to all low carb canned. Well I gave him 2 shots total on insulin one shot at 1u and the second at .5u and he started testing in normal range and has been in remission and off insulin now for 2 years as of this last November 1st. If I had continued to shoot him blind I could have very easily sent him into hypo or even killed him.

There has also been more than once that Autumn has been crying at me for food, I always test her before I feed her, on several of those times she has tested in the 20s without any outward signs of hypo. Plus by testing her at home I have been able to reduce her dose from 1.5u to the mere .5u she is on today, and with any luck at all She will let me know when she needs to go down in dose again and hopefully one day she too will be in remission and diet controlled like Maxwell.

You do not need your vet's permission to test at home, you don't even have to tell her that you are. But as someone that has diabetes in her family I can tell you no human diabetic would inject insulin without testing themselves first, so why should it be any different with a cat?

As far as what to look for any human glucometer will do as long as it takes a small sample of blood and the test strips fit your budget as they are the most expensive part. A very popular brand around here is the Walmart house brand called the Relion of which there are 3 models that are used around here, the confirm, the micro or the new prime. In fact I have the Relion Micro as my back up meter for Autumn it was originally Maxwell's. I also have a Bayer Contour that is Autumn primary meter since she is a DCIN (Diabetic Cats in Need) sponsored cat and they supply her test strips.

The other things that you would need to get started on home testing are the lancets (28-29 gauge to start with)
A lancing device to fit the lancets.
Something to back the ear for poking ( I use a folded up paper towel)
A rice sock (a thinnish cotton sock with about 1/4 c of plain uncooked white rice in the toe and knotted) or some other way to warm the ear.
Low carb treats for Ruben for each test regardless if you get blood or not. He will quickly figure out that a small poke in the ear is worth the yummy treat and the extra one on one time with mom. Autumn actually comes hunting for me if I'm running late on a test time or she will beat me to her test spot and be waiting.

That is pretty much it...you can google Testing a diabetic cat and come up with tons of videos to watch. It takes some practice but once you find your groove you can do it in your sleep and many of us have...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

I am going to expand a little on Mels list

- Meter ie Walmart Relion
- Matching strips
- Cotton balls
- A lancing device to fit the lancets. You may find it easier without the device but try it with first.
- Lancets - Best choice to start are 28 or 29 gauge lancets.
- Something to back the ear for poking. Mel uses a folded up paper towel, I use a small USB mini torch i got on ebay so I can see the veins too.
- A rice sock (a thinnish cotton sock with about 1/4 c of plain uncooked white rice in the toe and knotted) or some other way to warm the ear.
- Low carb treats for Ruben for each test regardless if you get blood or not. I like freeze dried chicken for this. You can get it in petsmart and a lot of pet stores.
- Neosporin ointment - for healing the little wound and helping the blood to bead up.

Wendy

 

He is about 11-12lbs. Looks great. I am so nervous now about giving this shot at 9:30 without testing. But I do not have test so I'm gonna feed him 1/2 can of wet give 1 unit put down his normal dry for him to graze, then pick it up around 12am to make sure he eat in the morning. Sound good? I am going to go shopping at walmart tomorrow. A list would be awsome (If that is the list in the above post then I will use that, Just not sure if that is everything.) I am a smart girl but when it comes to ruben I forget everything I was just told. So a really detailed stupid proof list is appreciated. How can I repay all of you for your help. I vow that when I become as confident as you all are I will give back to this site. Oh I feel so much better than I did on Monday. Really bad with stress and anxiety. My mom had to have a tlk with me. Lol I have a neurological disorder at the moment and it puts me at high risk for stroke and when I was at the er with Ruben yesterday, my speech and vision was getting funky. I can't help it no matter how much I know I have to be calm for him and myself, my love and concern get the best of me. You all here have helped so much. Though I am really nervous about giving him his shot later. I know is only 1unit but wihtout testing who knows what will happen.

 

I'm getting stressed now its food and needle time and I keep reading to much insulin will kill him and I cant test. Is 1unit dangerous if I notice he eats?

 

Do you have any fancy feast gravy lovers or any high carb wet? Otherwise maybe just leave out the dry to nibble on and that will keep him ok all night.

 

If you don't feel safe doing the shot, there's nothing wrong with skipping it until you have a meter. I agree with the saying that "shooting without testing is like driving down the freeway with a bag over your head". The thing we value most highly is safety for the kitties.
A day without insulin is safer than shooting blind, in my opinion.

Carl

 

Here is a calculation for calories he will need when he is on wet...
Required calories per day = [13.6 X ideal weight in lbs] + 70
Get the calories in food from here http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Food Chart Public 9-22-12.pdf

Ok here is a better list

- Meter ie Walmart Relion (cheap but needs more blood than the confirm) or relion confirm (less blood needed but strips more expensive)
- Matching strips (make sure they are designed for the meter you choose)
- Cotton balls
- A lancing device
- Lancets - Best choice to start are 28 or 29 gauge lancets, to fit the device
- freeze dried chicken treats (pure bites or similar)
- Neosporin ointment
- 3 cans fancy feast gravy lovers
- 1 can chicken broth, low salt no onions

Have a look on Walmart.com right now, search for "relion" and you can start to see what's available and what you are looking for and pricing and so on.
Wendy

 

So he ate almost a half a can of fancy feast classic and I'm leaving out his dry for a few hours. I went ahead and gave him what the vet said 1unit. Should I just sit back and relax should I watch him like a hawk. Whats the happy medium. How long before any reaction would happen? If I'm right, I think 1unit is a low enough dose that it should be safe, didn't want to adjust or skip being so new to all this. He was 200 at the er last night, but who knows what that represents today. I do know that , that does mean he needs insulin. Actually the only thing I'm positive of is I know nothing for sure.

 

While watching him like a hawk you might want to read this...if anyone ever needed it, its those of us just starting out on this journey.

Message from your cat

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Lantus kicks in generally two hours after the shot, and reaches its peak at 5-7hours. Does he sleep with you so you can keep an eye on him?

If it was me, i would make sure he eats some every couple of hours.. at least one tablespoon of dry... and it would allow me to check on him. He will probably be fine... but its much better to be safe than sorry. Tomorrow once you have the meter you can start testing and move to wet only.

Here is information on hypos and how to treat them:http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1122
If you see any symptoms listed in the above link feed, give karo syrup and rush to emergency vet.

Get the emergency vets phone and address sorted out now and stick on your fridge for future reference.

I will be up at 2am and 6am, and will keep an eye out for you if you have issues or questions, but if there is an issue don't wait on me.l Go to the vet and bring the syrup for the car ride!

Again, he will probably be fine on the dry food.. We are just playing it safe here.

Wendy

 

Wendy & Tiggy, can you just come stay with me until I ge this figured out...lol Thank you for that list. Going to Wallmart tomorrow. I'll start posting levels tomorrow. How frequent should I tes, when and is there a way I should chart. That calorie chart is way confusing, so is the formular. lol never good in math. He did eat some so trying to relax, but would be lying if I said I was doing good at it.

 

My advice is for you to skip the shot in the morning, go get the meter and supplies, and then work on learning the "how-to" for home testing.

Carl

 

I am with Carl on that one. Let's work on the rest of the stuff tomorrow. Go get your supplies, and your fancy feasts and we can go from there.

 

he does sleep with me for the most part. My concern is when I brought him to the vet on Mon for that colonoscopy(which he didnt have b/c of this) his reading was 400+ and he seemed absolutly fine. I have his dry out now but he is napping. Should I leave his food out all night? what if he's not hungry in the morning for his nex shot? or should I leave it down til around 12am then pull it up? Also what if he doesn't eat anymore? Is he okay? Can't believe the vet is like just give him 1unit in the morning and the evening and bring back in a week or so, I asked to bring him in this fri. CRAZY, don't they know this is Ruben...lol Can't believe vets can be so carefree about this. Should I just have a stiff drink and just calm down...lol Again there are not enought thank you's in the world for all you guys. especially you wendy & tiggy

 

I use the Walmart Relion Confirm. I like it because it requires the smallest amount of blood to get a reading. The other Relion meters are a little cheaper (especially the strips) but you need a larger drop of blood to get a reading.

Also, be aware that once you buy any diabetic supplies they cannot be returned, even if they are unopened. It's against the law (at least in my state, and I think it's a federal law) because of the possibility of contamination. I found this out the hard way!!

Good luck with Ruben! You're a great kitty mommy!

 

Yes. Leave his food out all night. Let him eat all he wants, and don't worry about pulling it up. It doesn't matter what his BG is at the time for his morning shot, because you shouldn't give him a shot until after you test his BG with your brand new meter.
Your vet was wrong. "Just give him a shot in the morning and at night and bring him back next week" is irresponsible advice. Ask your vet, when they again tell you not to worry about testing this question:
"If your infant child had diabetes, and his pediatrician told you to just give him his insulin every day and bring him back in next week for a checkup, would you do it?".
If the vet's answer to that question is "yes", then tell him he'd better pray his infant child never gets diabetes.

Carl

 

I'm nervous about skipping the shot all together, is it real bad if I give it to him, I know he does need insulin based on he few readings he had. I have a neurologist appointment tomorrow and will be out of the house from around 11:30-4:30. So confused. Vets say def give you say don't I wont be here, I think I should give it to him. Oh I don't know, Want to keep him consistant, especially for the readings. My mom agree's with the testing but says def do not skip shot. Says he does need it based on the 2 readings at the vet. Oh god please show me the right way

 

Again I agree with Carl. Leave the dry out, check on him every few hours, try and see if he will eat some. Don't give him the shot tomorrow morning, go get the supplies.

Missing one shot wont kill him, high blood sugar hurts over time, not short term. But low blood sugar can kill within hours or less.

Better to be safe than sorry, skip it tomorrow morning. Especially since you won't be home to watch. It will be fine.

Come back home tomorrow evening, and start testing and then you can shoot.

Wendy

 

Ruben's Mom,

I'm going to be blunt.

A cat can go hypoglycemic from too much insulin. There is absolutely no way to know, without a BG test, what Ruben's BG is right now. There won't be a way to know that it is safe to give him insulin until you can test his BG yourself at home.

Hypoglycemia can kill. I have seen several people post here that their cats have died from hypoglycemia, in the year and a half that I have been a board member. In some of those cases, the caregivers were NOT testing, mostly due to complacency. They'd been giving the same dose for a long time, and had never seen low numbers at shot time. They shot without testing, and came home later to find their cats having seizures, and their cats didn't survive.

Ruben can have BGs over 500 between now and tomorrow night's shot time, and he won't die from that. However, if his BG tomorrow morning is low and you give him a shot, it could be harmful to him.

Please do not give him another shot of insulin until you are able to test his BG at home.

Carl

 

I'm with Carl...Ruben is far safer to skip the shots until you are testing at home and KNOW he is high enough to give insulin too. He will survive another 24 hours without, he didn't become a diabetic overnight.

My very first diabetic was a lovely himalayan girl named Muse and I will always carry with me the guilt that I killed her trying to help her. She was diagnoised right before Easter Sunday, she was extremely high at the vet's when they last checked her before I brought her home, so I went ahead and gave her insulin I wasn't home testing yet back then (everything was closed for the holiday & I couldn't get a meter)..I even cut her dose in half to be on the safe side...the next morning I found her gone...she had hypoed overnight and passed away.

Now on the flipside of that....Autumn whom I adopted as a diabetic was allowed to go 10+ months without any treatment whatsoever after they found out she was a diabetic before I adopted her...she is still here and purring away on my lap...yes she was in rough shape when she got to me, but she was and still is alive. Now because she was allowed to go so long without treatment I have no idea if I will ever get her in remission and off insulin, but I do know because I test her at home that she will live out her golden years in a loving home even if that means I will always be poking her little ears and giving her insulin.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

I have to agree with Carl 150%. Is it possible for you to go out tonight and get a meter from Walmart?

You can watch some diabetic cats until you are blue in the face and you won't be able to tell if they are at 20 or 200 and since you have no data on Ruben, you won't know if he is one that will let you know if he's running low or if he will be like my girl who can be at 20 and never act any different.

The thing that concerns me is that you could have shot a low number and dry food takes a while to kick in. I'm not trying to be over reactionary or scare you, but I think Carl did not overstate the importance of testing before you shoot.

 

So my vet jus called to check on him, which I appriciated. I told her I was going to home test. She said that's fine if you want to do that, she's just worried about how it might efect ruben and mine relationship. I also told her I was going to skip this mornings dose til I got the glucometer. She said. Samantha IWould at least give him 1/2 a dose (which is 1/2 unit very little) she said you could come home and find him at 600 if he misses one and you still might end up in the er. She said"medically i would at least give him 1/2 dose to keep him regular injections. she said a 1/2 unit is smaqll enough to not kill him. SO confused. she is a vet. but I agree with everyone here. Its a half a unit should I still skip? Wish I had some of your numbers?
Once I start testing I also heard you have to calabrate the meters? whats that about and also I dont know what a cats bg should be. Last time I brought him in he was 200 and it had been 12hr since his last shot. what do think guys, still skip or give 1/2 unit, what about if I give a little less than half (though I dont think I can even measure that its so little) she says its the consistancy that is going to help?

 

Also i read that artical on how to switch from dry to wet, but I need instructions. I want to get him on the fancy feast wet, I think that is a good one, you all agree? but he's been a dry free feeder all his life, should I just do the 2 meals a day or wet in the morning and night and graze throughout the day, want him to be hungry enough for one I do give him his shot that he will eat his wet. Also what do you all think is a good dry for him, if I should feed him any at all? leaving in a little over an hour, he was due for his shot now.

 

I'm still with skipping. 600 doesn't mean an automatic trip to the vet. Sorry, I disagree with your vet. What if his bg is 50 right now?
And you can use the meter right out of the box. If you are getting a Relion, there no calibration needed.

Carl

 

Mind made up, Im skipping, love you guys, thank you. Rahter have him alive when I get home and be at 600 then dead with no chance to save him.
wish us luck, any validity to her saying home testing might change our relationship. I'm okay if it does, just curious if any of you guys had that problem?

 

A cat can go extremely low and even hypo on 0.1u of insulin. We've seen it on this forum. While lantus is a gentle insulin, it is not hypo proof. I'm glad you skipped this morning. Normal BGs for a cat are 50-120.

Most of the meters these days either only needed to be coded once (before you use it the first time) or some of the newer ones don't even require coding. But it's a very simple procedure and takes only a few seconds. The instructions will be with the meter.

Hometesting will not adversely affect your relationship. Some kitties don't understand at first and might hide but most of them get used to it quickly and many of them will come when called for testing. I am very, very bonded with my Gracie and it's never caused any disruption to our relationship...even in the early days. She still sleeps snuggled in my arms every night and she even purrs her head off when I test her. Some people will say it increases the bond with their cat. Again....next time your vet questions home testing, ask her if she had a diabetic child, would she give it insulin without first testing it's BG?

I do understand why your vet wants you to give "some" insulin. Diabetic cats who have infection "can" possibly develop ketones if they do not have enough insulin, food, and water. When they develop ketones, it can rapidly progress to diabetic ketoacidosis. That is why we
have you checking his ketones and why it is important that you continue to do so and let us know if you even see a "trace" of them. I think one skipped shot so you can get a meter and strips is ok because your cat has not previously had DKA. But he does have something going
on since she has him on metronidazole so you want to be sure you do not skip more than one shot.....and since we don't want you shooting "blind", you must get that meter and strips today. And please get at least 100 strips. You don't want his BG to start coming down in the middle of the night and you have no strips to test him.

I'm not sure anyone has told you how lantus works. It is not an "in and out" insulin like Humulin or Novolin. It is a long duration insulin. But, more importantly, it is a depot insulin. The first shots given to a cat go to filling this depot. Once the depot is full, the cat starts to use the insulin you give him with each shot. If the dose is too high and you overfill the depot (think of it as a bucket), then numbers come down...and sometimes quickly. A dose you give can affect several subsequent cycles due to the depot. If he was at 200 and it had been 12 hours since his last shot, it's possible he is getting low on you midcycle. But we won't know if you don't test.

Let me give you a real life example that just happened here last week. A new member's vet had him shooting 3u twice a day without testing. The member was concerned about that amount and dropped it to 1u. Then he started testing. On his first test, he got a 76...and he gave the 1u dose. Then he found us because he wondered if he perhaps shouldn't have shot. His intuition was good because we would have advised him to skip that shot. I asked him to get a test one hour after he shot, and the cat's BG was 33. I asked him to get the cat to the ER immediately and he did. Thankfully, his cat is fine and his cat also is now in remission. But he would have never known that without testing and his cat could have easily died that night.

I never fed dry food and so I'll leave the transition from dry to wet to to others. But it is another reason why it is imperative for you to test. We've seen, in some cats, the need to drastically reduce a dose when the change is completed. Personally, I would not change Ruben from dry to wet until you are testing.

 

Ideally you don't feed dry at all, especially if you want a chance of remission. Fancy feast is a good choice but make sure you choose low carb ones under 10% (see my PDF link in a previous post above). The classic pâtés are good.

I worked out you can feed three cans of fancy feast a day. You can adjust if he gains or loses weight.

Since you free feed dry you might want to do the same with wet. With my boys I put a pile out in the morning and then refresh it with fresh stuff at night if there is any left. Some cats won't eat wet that sits out too long so if he is one of those you could buy a timed feeder and put frozen wet food in it.


Wendy

 

As far as home testing changing your relationship with Ruben...absolutely it will...it will strengthen the bond you two have. He will associate your love and care and yes the pokes to the ear and the sticks from the shots with him feeling better. You will learn more about your cat than you ever knew before. Little things that you took for granted as Ruben just being a cat will have more meaning to you.

One of the best decisions I ever made was adopting my 3 diabetics which sadly I lost one to a vet not catching that she was in fact anemic rather than simply DKA and not treating her for the anemia until it was too late to save her. While I have 12 other cats that I love dearly we don't have the bond that my diabetics and I have together. And when my herd thins some their places in this house will be replaced with other special needs cats. I wouldn't trade my connection with my diabetics for the world.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

.

I can tell you how it changed my relationship with Bob.
Before diabetes, Bob was "Momma's boy". Had been for his entire life. He had a sister named Lillian who was "my cat", but Bob had very little use for me. Never sat in my lap, or looked for any attention from me, only my wife. If she wasn't home, he kept to himself.
When he was diagnosed, my wife was going to have him put to sleep. Three months prior, my Lillian had died. I couldn't accept putting Bob down, so I decided I would use my savings, and try to treat him. It was my decision, and I assumed all the responsibility for testing, feeding, shots, vet visits, the whole ball of wax.
Something miraculous happened during the weeks that followed. Bottom line - Bob ditched his Mom and I became his person. It was me he greeted at the door every day. When given a choice of two laps, it was mine he chose. He came to me looking for dinner, for treats, or for comfort.
After a couple of weeks of testing, he started coming to me at test time instead of me having to find him. He learned that tests meant treats, that shots meant feeling better. Diabetes created a bond between us that I have never experienced before with a cat, and I have had at least twenty of them in my life over the years.

Bob has been off insulin for 18 months. He might get tested once a month these days. If I walk over to the cabinet where his "supplies" are stored right now and took out his meter....as soon as he hears the zipper on the case open, he will run from wherever he is in the house. He'll lay down at my feet and purr and stay there until I poke his ear and he hears the meter beep. Then he'll start doing his "shrimp dance", because he'd know a shrimp is his reward for testing.

No matter how strong you believe your bond with Ruben is, I fully expect that it will become even greater as you go down this diabetes treatment path. So I wouldn't worry about thinking it will have any negative impact on your relatioship with him.

Carl

 

Yes, this definitely changed mine and Mikey's relationship...for the better! It strengthened our bond because we were now tackling this diabetes diagnosis together. Yes, the first couple of weeks were really tough, not going to lie, but once I got the testing figured out, it's become so routine that Mikey seeks out testing if I haven't tested him for a while and he even purrs most of the time when I'm testing him. Now, with the new kitten in the house, testing has become our "special time" where he knows I won't let Henry bother him or interfere and he gets all the loving and attention he wants from me. This means he's been going over to his testing spot a lot more often lately.... :?

It also helped him create a bond with my brother, tenuous though it is. I was going to be gone for a work trip, so I trained my brother up to be able to care for Mikey. Michelangelo has always been skittish and would basically run and hide when anyone who wasn't me was around. After my brother started testing Mikey, he wouldn't run when he saw my brother and started playing with him for once!

Don't get me wrong; it's not always sunshine and roses. Something worth knowing is that a cat's ears are less sensitive than your own fingertips, so it's more of an annoyance to them than actually painful. Whenever Mikey gets in one of his moods and starts growling or crying at test time (usually his AM pre-shot test), I know it's because I'm simply inconveniencing him or disrupting him from his play or his food and I'm not actually hurting him, especially if he starts doing this before I've even poked him! It reminds me of my niece when she was little how she used to scream when my sister would try to brush her hair, even when my sister hadn't even started yet. This is when I roll my eyes :roll: and tell Michelangelo to stop being so melodramatic because it isn't fooling anyone. The least he can do is save me the emotional and financial toll a DKA or hypo would cost by letting me bother him a few times a day for a simple blood test where he gets petted and fawned over before he's fed or given treats.

 

For the dry, I believe there are a couple of lower carb dry food options, like Evo or Young Again, but depending on how picky he is, changing his regular dry food to another dry food might be just as difficult as switching him from dry to wet. If this is the case, I wouldn't worry too much about this unless it takes much longer than a week or two to get Ruben fully switched over to wet.

I might be able to offer a few suggestions from when I transitioned Michelangelo.

• First, and most importantly, don't switch from dry to wet until you start testing as this can lower their BG by possibly 100 points or more.
• If you have more than one cat, I would suggest you switch them all over to wet food since it will be easier than worrying if Ruben gets into their food. And healthier for them too!
• There are a lot of different varieties of low carb, wet food (anything under 10 in the "C" column). What I did was buy a few different brands and tried them out to see which ones he seemed more interested in. There's a reason people around here call Fancy Feast "Kitty Crack." This is the first one that finally appealed to Michelangelo more than his dry food and he would actually eat around the dry kibble I mixed with it, making his transition much easier and faster than I expected.
• Don't try to force Ruben to eat wet food. This is a transition, so eating mostly dry food at the beginning is to be expected. I started out soaking Mikey's kibble in tuna juice. He would only eat it when it was "fresh," but once it started getting soggy, he wouldn't touch it. I then tried some leftover KMR (Mikey is a kitten still, so this might not work for Ruben) and this worked even better. He would munch on the soggy, KMR-soaked pieces all day long. Then, that night, I added KMR and dry kibble to some wet cat food and he ate all the dry kibble and about half the wet. That's when we started making progress!
• The next day, I added less KMR, same amount of kibble, and a bit more wet. And so on, and so forth. So, once you find a food that Ruben is particular to, start by mixing more dry than wet and slowly increase the wet-to-dry with each day until all that is left is wet.
• Stop leaving out dry food for him to graze on. Since I mostly free-feed Mikey, what I left out instead was the dry/wet mixture of the day. So, if he was hungry and it wasn't a proper mealtime, he'd have to give in and eat some of the wet.
• Add warm water to the wet and mash up so it's almost like a liquidy stew or a chunky milkshake. This helps release the smell of the food to entice Ruben plus the extra water seems to give it a better consistency and texture (at least for my cats). Sometimes I add too much water and they look at me like I'm an idiot trying to feed them flavored water. Sometimes I add too little and extra food ends up stuck to the sides of the bowl and dries out or they smack their lips excessively after eating. You'll eventually find the right ratio of water-to-food that works for both you and Ruben, so don't stress on this.
• You don't want to make the switch overnight as this can sometimes lead to diarrhea and/or vomiting (but this may still happen anyway). Once you no longer have to coerce him into eating some of the wet, it should take about a week to fully transition Ruben to exclusively eating wet, although there might still be an occasional upchuck in the first couple of weeks. I blamed this on how fast Mikey would chow down on the wet food before he learned that eating it slower than dry would help him keep it down. He still sometimes gets overly excited and literally inhales it, but this will just cause a momentary coughing fit till he slows down again.
• If not even the Kitty Crack entices Ruben, try sprinkling a little bit of Parmesan on top. It works so well that I actually use this trick whenever I want to manipulate my cats with food. For example, I just got a new kitten and I wanted to get them eating next to each other so they'd associate "food" with "new cat smell." I just sprinkled a bit of Parmesan on their food and they were eating side-by-side by the second day of meeting each other.
• If the Parmesan doesn't work, there's also fortiflora, which is what makes dry cat food taste so good. I've never used it, so I don't know much about this option.

Patience + Persistence = Progress

And if you still need help, feel free to ask since there are a lot of us who went through transitioning our cats from dry to wet.

 

How's it going? Did you get the testing supplies? How did it go? It can be difficult at first but both of you get used to it.

Let us know, we are thinking about you guys..

 

If i make it up late enought to see responces, what should I do about food tonight. He's had about 3/4 can of wet fancy feast tonight, Def want him hungry in the am so I'm sure he eats before his shot. Should I leave anything out. also my other cat is an eater, should I put her away to moniter what he's eating? I have no clue how much he eats on daily basis since he grazes. but he's always at a good weight so figured he knew best now I have to moniter and not sure.
One last thing anything I should say or ask my vet tomorrow?

Gratitude is the hardest emotion to convay, especially when its deep~thank you all

 

Nice to see you back... we were worried about you!

Are you planning to shoot tonite? What about testing?did you get the supplies today?

 

omg just noticed my other post did get posted..ugh
well here's the condenced version
got everything on the list except treats-i'll get them tomorrow
did not give shot in the morning.
came home and watched two videos on bg testing a kitty then practiced on me, then my mom and took a deep breath and tried Ruben. The pen thingy didn't work good so just used the lancet by hand, went through his little ear right into my hand but we both were okay. he really didn't seem that annoyed. thank goodness
He read 383 gave him his new wet fancy feast which he ate a little less than 1/2 can and I gave him his one unit shot I dont know much about levels yet but no that is high. tried nto to over react, he was 400 in the er on mon and he survived
then I got a urine sample (go me) and his ketones wher normal, but glucose over 2000 ( assuming that corolates with the 383 reading, not sure tho)
Tried to hand feed him a little more and he ate a wee more than half a can.
we are both resting now. not only did i bg test, gave him shot but he is metronozdol <spelling? too. If he dont hate me after this he never will.
the above posts help put my mind to ease about that as well, thankyou
I am going to vet tomorrow. I am going to ask her about ranges and when to or not shoot and about if he doesn't eat before or how much is enought to shoot.
any other things I should ask. Also will if anyone has a chart of redings and ranges for bg on cats would be apprciate. curious to compare the vets.
Anything I need to do tonight for Ruben. Is okay to try to relax? I havn't ate or slept really since Mon. In a constant state of panic and anxiety. Oh I love him so. my whole world. He's that one, anyone who has had that "one" come through their life will understand what I mean.
couldn't have made it this for without you guys. can't tell you how grateful I am for here and all of you. I will sqeeze ruben for everypost on here. Giving him virtual hugs from all of you. Please give all yours one from me.
cant believe i did a bg and got a urine sample form a kitty ( Yay ruben and I)

 

In the beginning you don't want to shoot if he is below 200, this will change as you gather more data but we can cross that bridge when we get to it...Baby steps...for now WELCOME TO THE VAMPIRE CLUB!!!!! Bet you never thought you would hear that one..lol

Normal range for a cat on a human meter is between 40-120

With Lantus there are 4 key test you want to get in...before each shot, mid point between on either the am or pm cycle (cycle is the 12 hour period between the shots) and again what I refer to as the "Lights Out" test...I usually test right before I'm ready to turn in for the night which around here is at about +3 which with Autumn is perfect as that is about when her insulin starts kicking in, so that tells me is she is going to drop too fast or not and if I need to stay up to monitor here...after those 4 anything other spot checks you can get in are just more data to fill in the picture of how the insulin is working.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

Way to go on testing!!!! You will get better. Sometimes it helps to have something behind the ear to press against, then you might not go right through. And don't forget the treat after!

Remember he didnt get a shot this morning so it makes sense he would be high. You can relax. If you can do a test before bed that would be good, otherwise If you can set the alarm and get up in 5-7hours to do a test that would be as good. Just to see what he does tonite.

Tomorrow morning, don't feed for two hours before the shot, then test, shoot and feed. (If he is under 200, don't shoot, don't feed, and contact us for advice.)

We will be watching for your numbers so let us know when you get them and what they are!

You are doing great!!

Wendy

 

You test 4x a day? Is that the average for people here? Also whats does you (everyone think about that 383) He hadn't had a shot in about 20 hours so I was assuming it was that high b/c of that. and didn't eat a whole.
I'm don't want to test again today, we've both had a rough day but if you all think I should I'll try. he seems okay, def not his normal 100% self but he hasn't since I brought him home on Mon. he hates the vets very stressful on him,
Also mid cycle is around the 6hr mark, correc?
Im not sure if every one has read but at the moment i'm out of work but am returning in about 2 weeks. I leave my house at 7:10 return from 12:30-1:30 then back to work from 2-7 so I he's gonna have to be every 12hrs to 12 1/2hrs
The food thing my other cat , Maple < cause she's so sweet, keeps eating ruben food (both free feeders) how shoudl I handle this, think Ideally a can in the a.m. 1/2 in the afternoon and a can a night each? I hate putting lil maple away but dont want to leave food out with her out cause then I cant moniter ruben.

 

just went in did a test before bed. He is 135 now (11pm) gave him his shot around 7ish. I know thats in the good range but shoudl I panic he's dropping to fast (have no idea) i over analyze everything. Took 4 pokes to get him. (ugh) dont want to have to do it again tonight. too much for both of us, but I will if I should.

 

Actually your work schedule sounds perfect to get tests in...test before you give him a shot in the morning, then when you run home for lunch, then again before his evening shot and then right before bed...easy peasey.

Feeding time at least at my house is pretty funny to watch, because even though I am home with mine all day I have a couple that will hoover up everyone's food so here at least I have two large carriers that Sophia and Patches eat in, then a large dog kennel that my little Duvessa gets her meals in right now since she is wearing the dreaded "Cone of Shame" after sneaking outside and tangling with something unfriendly (probably a dog and getting bit in the face) then Maxwell, Lady Jane Grey and Arabella eat in the bedroom because they are the slowest eaters, and the rest are fed in the kitchen 8 of which share 4 big dishes, but Autumn refuses to share a dish so she gets her owm little dish. Mine have set feeding times so I don't have to worry about leaving food down for them and the word Leftover is not known in this house. :lol:

I do know that some folks use timed feeders and if there are more than one cat in the household they put them in different parts of the house so that each cat runs to their spot where their feeder is when it is time for it to open. Others will leave out a frozen hockey puck of food and then top that with fresh food so the cats can eat right away and then nibble on the frozen as it thaws.

As far as the 383 that isn't too shabby for him not having a shot this morning.

With Lantus the nadir (lowest point in the cycle) is normally around +6 but here is where you will start hearing the phase...ECID Every Cat Is Different...some will have a nadir that is earlier, some will be later but that is what all those spot checks in the beginning tell you...Every cat will have their own unique pattern and testing is how you figure out Ruben's pattern. After having 4 diabetic cats over the last 2 1/2 years I can tell you no two cats are the same.

We call this the Sugar Dance, My Maxwell was like most men and decided quickly he didn't want to dance(he was OTJ off the juice in 2 weeks)...lol, My Musette was the quick-step and Mz Autumn well she's been a nice easy waltz...Ruben will show you too how he wants to dance because he is the only one that can hear the music you two are about to start dancing to.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

So he was 135 at +4 not bad at all...if you are worried about him dropping too fast just see if he will eat a little snack before you turn in.

Since we have folks all over the world the easiest way to tell us when test numbers are taken is like this.

AMPS (morning preshot test)
+1
+2 The plus numbers are how many hours after the shot is given
+3
PMPS (evening preshot test)

That way we all know we are on the same page.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

He has dropped quite a lot in four hours 383 down to 135! its a very good thing you tested again.Try and feed him some fancy feast and test again in an hour.

You need to test at least before every shot.Many people test more because it helps to get them regulated and towards remission - and thatswhat you want! I agree with Mel, your work schedule is perfect!!
7am test , shoot and feed
12pm test and feed
7pm test , shoot and feed
10pm test and feed
If you are off by 15-30 minutes that s ok.

I worked out Ruben needs 3 cans of fancy feast to himself a day. Let Maple eat the food too - just put enough out for both of them! (= 6 cans a day total if she is the same weight)

Wendy

 

Another trick that works here for those that want to eat everything in sight is instead of using a bowl use a plate and add water to the food so that it will spread over the plate or even turn a small bowl upside down in the middle of the plate that way they have to work their way around the plate to eat and it is large enough that they can't shoulder the other one out of the way and hog the dish. I actually use ceramic pie plates to feed mine, nice edge to keep the food on the dish and wide enough so nobody can hog it.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang

 

I am concerned about the drop and he is just at +4. That is a very fast drop. Likely, he will bounce back up but we have no data.

Please retest at +5 and I hope you did feed after that last test as was suggested. Please post his +5 test here.

Since we all are in different time zones, we use a system of "hours after his last shot". So one hour after his shot is +1; six hours is +6, etc.

Also, normal numbers err not 40-120; it's 50-120.

 

She sent me a PM. I have asked her to post here only. He ate 1/2can of fancy feast. I have asked her to test in five minutes (1 hour from last test)

Wendy

 

oh I cant say it enough THANK GOD for all of you. my er vet would have a restraining order on me cause I would be calling every 2min
I did give him food, he ate about a lil less than 1/2 can. I am going to check in an hour and post. pray!! I don't have the treats reccomended yet but will tomorrow

 

No.. Not in an hour. We need you to test now...

 

got it, going to test now, be back, pray.

 

Good...I was about to tell you the same thing

 

194 thats good right? I mean not good overall but at least not dropping. he did eat a little too.
Moving forward for tonight. leave do not leave food out. want him hungry for am shot
and test or not test again
I'm really getting the worst of it lol
putting the cotton ball behind is bulkie and awkward. plus if im poking him and he's not complaining then a little of my own blood shed is okay by me.
One last question, sleep or not sleep lol I havent in 3 days lol

 

You could fold a small paper towel behind. It will become easier anyway when you get used to it.. And it looks like Ruben has his own plans here for what he wants to do! I am so so glad you started testing.

I will let Marje respond on whether she wants more tests tonite, and feeding schedule.

 

thank you for he words of encouragement. they mean a lot to me. I am beyond exstatic that I started testing, feel so much more in control. Couldn't ge the idea of shooting blind out of my head, I know nothing about this disease and I innately knew that you should test, can't believe my vet. Gonna work with her tomorrow and brign my tester to compare to theirs.
you guys are the best. Oh how grateful I am

 

I think Marje must have gone off for a coffee ; or more likely she is dealing with another issue. She is likely to ask for another test at 1am just to make sure he is still rising, is that ok?

Who am I kidding.. You are probably too freaked to sleep anyway right now!

 

Great! Sorry...helping someone else, too..busy night

I don't use a cotton ball or tissue. I get a much better poke with barely touching her ear by holding something more firm ad Wendy does. Wendy uses a small flashlight. I got the little round lid from my extra contact lens case...I place the inside of her ear against it and its a good support platform.

Ok...so you are doing great with testing...very proud of you! While a +7 test would be nice tonight, I think you are ok to sleep now if you need to. I think he's probably going to bounce up.

Remember that you must get a test before every shot. If he gives you a number at 200 or below, do not feed him, post here and ask for help, ok?

If you can also start entering numbers on the SS..if you need help setting it up, please let us know.

Good job!!

Edited to add: you can feed him whenever he wants it as long as he had no food between +10 and +12.

 

1am is a +6 not +7.. She is at PMPS +5.5 right now and it's been 15mins since last test.

 

1am it is. yup def not sleeping, side note he is, like a bb...lol will you be on....lol need someone to run the reading by or i'll go nutty. I'm a neophite to this and only 50-120 is good. dont know anything else so this flux is a new thing for me don't know what is good or not? again if under 200 dont shoot in the am? what if i go to my vet and they want to shoot at 11am? she called thsi morn and I told her I didnt want to shoot without testing and she strongly, medically advised I at least shoot half a unit. I didn't tell her one way or the other cause I dont want her to drop me, I do think she is my best chance as most other vets are no specialist and she recently saved my aunts dog who had diabetis and if it wasnt for her I would have neverknown about ruben and he coldl have died.
he went in for a colonoscopy (that another story, but this is taking precident) and had his blood checked about 3 weeks prior (how I'm pretty sure we caught this early) but they were slightly elevated. Dr. Kessler to be on the safe side ran them again and found out he was 400 so we switched gears and here I am today. Little cat is making me go bankrupt....maybe very litterally...lol. He's really a healthy cat...lol or so he seemed
anyway, need to be prepared for all situation when going in there tomorrow or i am at her mercy.

 

I will be here at 1am and Marje is likely to pop back in too.

If he is under 200 in the morning I wouldn't shoot.(remember not to feed for two hours before shot)

If the vet wants to shoot at 11am I would say no cos it will throw u off schedule too much. And wait till night. She won't drop you.. She wants your money! She works for you remember!!

Take these numbers from tonite with you to show her what went on. I think she will be happy.

Wendy

 

Couple things, I'm a technilogical dinasaur. so def need help with spread sheet. also you all have info about your kitties testing equipment and food. Can you point me in the right direction of how to do that too. My bf is probably gonna leave b/c of this....lol don't think I've heard a word he's said or even noticed him in 4 days....lol been here and looking at ruben.
been with him 14ys about 3yrs ago there was a fire alarm in my condo at 2am, and you know when your reacting and not making choices........well I got up got ruben and ran downstairs and outside, 5 min later the bf comes outside and said what where you not gonna get me and the other cat. I didn't mean anything bad by it, I just reacted. thought he would get maple and himself. oops.. hahaha luckily there was no fire. from that night on he learned his place..oh im bad jkjk
ok, going to do test. fingers, tails and paws crossed

 

one thing b4 i test, what if he is 200 or 201 or 210,220 wha tis the cut off. I know im outof control but afraid im gonna kill him if i dont do the right thing and i dont know what that is. remeber im not a big fan of western medicine and it is probably a bit more scary to me than most, thats why i feel i my be hyper managing this.


I meant if he is 200 exactly or 201 in the mornign....duh forgot to put that, sorry in crazy mode

kk off i go to tes

 

Actually, I wanted a +7 not a +6 because he went up so much. I didn't want him to have to be poked again so soon since he's just starting out. But...if you need to get to bed and you want to test and go to bed if he's up more, that's fine.

please note I didn't say don't shoot if he's under 200. Just to be clear, if he gives you a 200 or below at AMPS, don't feed him, and post here or ...if no one is here...post on the lantus forum..and ask for help. In fact, in order that you won't have to stall waiting for an answer if he's 200 or less, why don't you test at +11.5. See where he is and if he's high, you can shoot within 15 minutes of your normal time. If he's 200, post and ask for help.

The reason I'd like you to do that is so someone can walk you through it and the options. Yes..we want to get insulin in him but there is a safe way to do it.

Sound like a good plan?

 

shoot, missed that post about the +7
it 194 @ 1:05

 

Ok cool.. He is steady. If you want to stay up for another hour and test again you can but I think he should be ok now though and... Marje said previously its fine too.. So you can go get a good nights sleep for a change!

I am signing off too now, if you do stay up Marje might be around... You could PM her.

Up to you
Talk to you tomorrow

Wendy