Sad and a little scared in Seattle

My cat Buddha was just diagnosed today with resistance diabetes today. He came to me as a stray -three years ago. My neighbor handed him over the fence to my husband. He was wounded and only weighted 7 lbs , plus he needed a tooth to be extracted. He got healthy and then started putting on the lbs - I have five other cats so there is a lot of feeding going on around here. His weight got up to 21 lbs and then back down to the current 16 lbs. I've taken him to the vet 3 times since January to find our what's wrong. They finally did a blood test for diabetes and found out he needs to start insulin shots. The vet told me the diabetes was from the weight gain...ugh I already feel bad enough! I am grateful that is not cancer and is treatable. Any encouragement and advise is welcome. Thank you!

 

Welcome Penelope and Buddha. My Lulu got pretty big -- about the same weight as Buddha, before she lost a lot prior to her dx. I'm giving her insulin and home testing her blood glucose, and it's steadily come down since I joined this board. There are lots of very helpful, experienced folks on here who will provide help, advice, and encouragement. I don't know what I'd do without them. You'll be getting lots of good advice and information pretty soon, I'm sure.

 

Thank you for your kind words and support Lori. Wow I have a lot to learn fast! I like the graph you use...can you send me a link to access my own for Buddha? Can you tell me about the Vit B12 shots? Was this recommended by your vet?
Was Friskies pate recommended by your vet as well? I need to transition Buddha to a new diet - my vet wants to keep him on Hill Weight loss diet - full of fiber. I'm on a learning curve.

 

Hi Penelope and Buddha and welcome. What a beautiful kitty Buddha is! Diabetes isn't a diagnosis any of us would want to hear, but please be assured that it is manageable and Buddha can still have a long and happy life with you helping him by keeping his condition under control.

Please don't feel bad about whether or not Buddha's weight gain caused the diabetes. So many of us here have had cats on what we later found out to be inappropriate diets (and in a number of cases like my Rosa, vet prescribed diets at that)!! It is completely not your fault - your other cats aren't diabetic and the issue isn't as straightforward as being just diet related - it's a combination of some cats' genetics with particular diets. And there's no way you can possibly know whether or not a particular diet may or may not cause problems for a particular cat until it happens.

I'm sure you must be feeling very overwhelmed at the moment and no doubt you have a lot of questions for us, but if you can give us some information too then we can all help with making sure you know what you need to know.

Can you tell us which insulin you've been prescribed for Buddha and what dosage please? There are several different types and between everyone here, I think just about each of them is used by someone so there will certainly be experienced support here for whichever type it is.

Has your vet mentioned a diet change for Buddha? Quite often we find that vets have recommended a prescription diet for diabetic cats which can work out expensive and not all that effective. There are a number of regular brands of food that you can use instead to better effect - not only are they more cost effective but they are suitable for all your cats so you don't have the problem of trying to feed a special diet to one cat and something else to all the others. We also have 6 cats in the house here so I know how much easier it is to find something that all the cats can eat and that is healthy for all of them.

Also, did your vet mention home testing of Buddha's blood glucose levels to you? This is something we recommend to everyone - it's much safer to give insulin when you know the effect it's having on a cat's levels. It's easier than it sounds (I promise) and if it's something you think you might want to do, there is lots of information available and everyone here will help you learn.

 

Hello Manixcat - The vet called me 2 hours ago with the diagnosis - I'm on the way to the vet with Buddha in a few minutes to get a training on how to give injections and diet changes. I've been reading and see that people tend to prefer Levemir is that right? - no sting associated with it? I would like to transition the diet away from Hills - any suggestions? I'll post most when I return from the vet. Oh thanks for helping me relieve and unnecessary guilt! ugh - I need all my good energy to help Buddha!

 

Hi Penelope,
There's a section on the forum entitled "Suggestions, Tech Support and Testing Area", with instructions on setting up the Spreadsheet; here's the link http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/.
I had a full blood panel done on Lulu because I was concerned about her rapid weight loss and excessive drinking and peeing. Along with high blood glucose, the test indicated mild pancreatitis, so the vet prescribed weekly B12 shots for her. The vet did not mention home BG testing, I found out about that on this fabulous website, and have been guided along by the experienced members here. I told my vet that I would be home testing, and she's supportive. My vet also prescribed a lower carb dry food for Lulu (she had been on a higher carb dry food). What I have learned on this site is that canned food or a raw diet is best. I really have come to trust the members of this site, many of whom helped me through the maze of info on kitty diabetes. For instance....never switch a cat from dry food diet to wet food without regular blood glucose testing. Food affects BG levels, and food changes along with insulin, can bring the levels down dangerously.
I'm still a newbie, but there are many experienced and knowledgeable people on this site who can provide you with answers to your questions, guidance, and will stay online with you if you're experiencing problems. You'll be hearing from them shortly, people are so very welcoming on this site.
P.S. I love my vet and Lulu will continue to be her patient, but this is my go-to site for kitty diabetes help.

 

The 4 insulins that I think most people prefer to go with as they last longest in a cat's system are Levemir, Lantus, ProZinc and PZI. I believe Levemir is less likely to sting at high doses, but Rosa was prescribed Lantus and I didn't notice any problems with that for her.

I would definitely ditch the Hills - it's expensive and really not necessary. I feed Friskies pate varieties - there's a good choice of flavors and they're not over-priced. A lot of people here also get good results with Fancy Feast classic pates. It's quite possible that your vet will try to push a prescription "diabetic management" diet for Buddha - the prescription diets are higher in carbs than either the Friskies or the Fancy Feast so not actually as good for a diabetic cat!! If your vet insists that you must try the prescription food, just buy a couple of cans then return it (you can get your money back) and say Buddha won't eat it.

There is, of course, a lot more information available but it will be easier to get you headed in the right direction once you know what insulin you're going to be using. And of course I'm trying not to overload you with too much information all at once - it's a lot to take in on top of a new diagnosis.

 

I'm with everything April just said, I use Lantus which is working quite well, got rid of that pricey prescription food I had in the cupboard, and go with Friskies and Fancy Feast. I was wanting to transition to raw food, but Lulu, Otis and Coco are not impressed with it at all.

 

Ok...this has been a bit of a stressful day. First the "NEWS" then the vet visit for instructions on how to "do it". Then the first .2 Lantus shot. My cat is not very happy...lots of extra meows and pacing. He is hungry! Looks like I do my "Curve" a week from today. I would love to put my cat on Fancy feast - he likes it - but the vets kind trash fancy feast as junk food. I've read that Fancy Feast and Friskies have come out with high protein - low carb special diet food, right? If you ladies know the names - I'd love to give it a try. Thank you for holding my hand though my first day!!

 

It is stressful to begin with - we've all been there and everyone here does understand. It does get easier, it really does. The Fancy Feast and Friskies that are low carb and high protein are just the classic pates - you should be able to pick them up in any of the bigger stores. So many of us use them and get really good results from them, though a lot of vets do think they're junk food. They're really not - they're exactly what cats need and so much better for them than the prescription diets that vets prescribe. It might be one of those situations where you just have to smile, nod and then do what you were planning to do in the first place!

When you say .2 Lantus injection, do you mean 2 units or 0.2 of a unit? Oh, and if Buddha is hungry, right now I'd feed him whatever he will eat. Unregulated diabetics can't get proper use out of their food so, no matter how much they eat, they're hungry because they're not getting proper nutrition from their food.

 

I'm in overwhelm...so I am not up on all the terms quite yet.
Buddha's blood test showed 531
Until we do the curve in a week the vet wants me give him a small amount of Lantus.
On the syringe I count 2 lines or 2cc
Thanks for the tip about feeding Buddha - I gave him Fancy feast and he is very content right now.
Any help with the specific name of Fancy Feast and Friskies that is more diet focused would be great!
Thanks so much!

 

It's OK - I completely understand you're overwhelmed. There just is a fairly big difference between 2 units (which is what you're giving) and 0.2 so I had to check - everyone here will help you get through this and work out all the different terms we use for things. The 2 units seems about right as a starting dose for his weight which is good.

I feed Friskies Classic pates. The flavors I have here at the moment are Poultry Platter, Liver and Chicken, Turkey and Giblets, Mariners Catch, Ocean Whitefish and Tuna and Sea Captain's Choice, but any of the Classic Pate flavors are fine except for the Mixed Grill (that one is 11% carbs and diabetic cats really need under 10% - I buy the Mixed Grill occasionally, but Rosa isn't all that carb sensitive so I can get away with it once in a while). The Special Diet pates are also fine - I always buy some of those as well as we have a CKD kitty as well as Rosa being diabetic and the Special Diet are lower in phosphorus. I think both come in at around 46 cents for a 5.5 oz can (I buy them at Walmart - if you can get one of the boxes of 32 cans of mixed flavors those are a little cheaper, but please make sure they are the pates as the other option is the food in gravy which is high carb). Again with Fancy Feast, the Classic Pates are the ones you want - those are a little more expensive especially with 6 cats in the house though as they're smaller cans at 3oz. A good number of the 9 Lives pates are also OK if budget is an issue - I've fed them on occasion and had no problems with them. There is a list where you can compare all the different foods, but let's start with the ones you should be able to get easily - there's time for looking through the full list later on when things don't seem quite so overwhelming. And until you can get the right food, feed him what you have that he'll eat - it's important that he eats something even if it's not the ideal food.

I would suggest that if you're going to switch Buddha over to low carb food that you try to home test him - switching food to low carb can reduce a cat's glucose levels significantly and with insulin on top, you really want to make sure the combination isn't going to take him too low. Most of us here use human glucometers - again, your vet might try to convince you that an Alphatrak pet glucometer is the only way to go, but the human ones work just as well and are significantly cheaper both to buy the meter and to buy test strips for. The ReliOn brand at Walmart is good - reasonably priced and easy to use - I think the 3 that a lot of people use are the Confirm (I use that one), the Micro and the Prime. Choosing between the 3 is really down to personal preference (and if your Walmart is anything like our local one, which one they have in stock when you go to buy it).

 

Oh, and if it helps, I'm only about half an hour out of Seattle (in Covington) so if you need help learning home testing or anything, let me know - I can arrange to come and show you.

 

Hello Penelope and extra-sweet Buddha, and welcome to FDMB

(Your Buddha looks so much like my Bertie; they could be twins!)

As others have said, diabetes is entirely treatable. And, with a dedicated caregiver and a little bit of luck, a diabetic cat can live as long and as happily as a non-diabetic cat. (Bertie has been an insulin-dependent diabetic for 8 years).

Some cats will be on insulin for life. But some cats will go into remission from their diabetes (ie become diet-controlled), either temporarily or permanently.

Reducing the carb content of the diet can reduce the blood glucose quite a bit in some cats. And because of that we generally recommend that - for cats already on insulin - the diet is only changed if the caregiver can test the cat's blood glucose at home and can monitor the effect of the diet change. It may be that the insulin dosage needs to be reduced once the diet is switched to lower carb food. Too much insulin can cause hypoglycemia.

Hometesting (testing your cat's blood glucose at home) isn't hard to learn. It essentially involves pricking the outer edge of the kitty's ear to get a tiny blood droplet; transferring that blood droplet to a test strip in a glucose meter; and waiting for the meter to count down and give the result. There are very few nerve endings in the edge of the kitty's ear, so this should not hurt at all. And, if you reward kitty with a treat for each test, or attempted test, they can very soon come to look forward to test times.

Here is the link to the FDMB page of hometesting info, tips and tricks, and example videos:
Hometesting Links and Tips

And DO consider taking up April's offer of a demonstration. It can be very helpful to have someone show you how to test (and it's also nice to meet up with other FDMB'ers )

Eliz

 

Measurement of insulin:
Insulin is measured in units. The concentration is usually U-100, or 100 units per milliliter (mL) or U-40, 40 units per mL. Lantus and Levemir are U-100 insulins. ProZinc is u-40. BCP PZI can come as either U-100 or U-40 (and even U-50).
The doses we use in most cats are pretty small, so the syringes we use are generally 3/10 ml. Ideally, you want the syringes which are marked in half units, as dose adjustments for cats are small, so we don't bypass the optimal dose.
One place to order syringes online is ADW and they help support the board with any purchases there.

 

Hi Penelope,
I see that some more experienced members have joined in, the people on here are extremely helpful. Just a month ago, I was totally overwhelmed, scared, afraid of hurting my kitty and alienating her forever. Today I can get blood glucose tests no problem, and am feeling so much more comfortable. I still need some hand-holding, but people are more than willing to help out, such as April offering to come demo home testing. I, too, had a person in my city offer to come over and show me how to ear-poke. As you can see, BJM and Elizabeth are also a wealth of information
I now mostly post in the Lantus (Glargine)/Levemire (Detemir) forum. Seems that a lot more eyes are on that part of the forum and oodles of experienced help.
Hope you and Buddha have a fabulous day!

 

I have so many ladies to thank for helping me already. I am literally Sleepless in Seattle! The vet did not have any blood test kits, so I worried about my first shot last night, (I forgot to roll the meds) causing too low of a level because Buddha did act differently - much calmer - especially after I gave him more to eat. I kept checking his breathing since he was so still throughout the night. I thought I'm gonna kill my cat! My current assessment is I think the first shot must have helped him feel better. I just have been so used to him being uncomfortable and moving around a lot, so when he relaxed so much I worried he was loosing his life energy and was ready to rush to an emergency room.
I don't like not knowing what his levels are now that I have the power of a needle in my hand. I'm getting a test kit today!

 

Oops! Forgive me, Penelope, I got your name wrong in my last posting. Just fixed it. What a drag it is getting old...
I find home testing to be so much better than taking Lulu to the vet weekly for tests $$$$ And things can change quickly within a few hours, so I feel I have so much more control now.

 

I'ms glad Buddha's first shot went well. It is possible to see a difference in a cat's behavior quickly even if there isn't a big reduction in their numbers straight away. You didn't do anything wrong - my vet also told me to roll the Lantus, but it's neither necessary nor recommended by the manufacturer. Rolling insulin is only needed for some types and Lantus isn't one of those. I'm sorry you were so worried about him all night but very happy to hear that all went well in the end.

I couldn't agree more on the home testing - my vet said is wasn't necessary, but giving insulin without being able to monitor what it was doing made me much more nervous than actually getting a drop of blood to test did!

 

Bjm....thanks for the link to order syringes. A couple basic questions...
Pet grade, right? They have 2 gauge choices 29 and 31 - I'm guessing 29 because that means smaller needle, correct? Thanks so much for the newbie help.

 

It doesn't matter too much if they're pet or human grade syringes - but you do want to make sure that you buy U100 not U40. That classification is based on the type of insulin (the number of units in one ml to be precise). All the human insulins including Lantus are U100

Needles are an odd measurement and actually backwards from what you'd expect - the higher the number, the smaller the needle is. That said, both 29 and 31 gauge are very small needles - a lot of cats won't notice a shot being given with either size.

 

I love the saying "Dogs have owners, but cats have staff" That's happening to me - for sure!
Thanks Manxcat, Lori/Lulu, Elizabeth and BJM for getting me through the first day.

Day 2 - I am facing three challenges - not sure of the priority, but here goes...
1: I struggled with choosing the "start" time for insulin shots last night because it appears to "lock" you in to this time with very little leeway in changing the time in the future, if needed- in the end I went with 8pm and 8am. This is a schedule I can mostly live with - except this Sunday I will not be home until 11pm - ugh...I should have put more thought into the start time knowing this was date was looming. Any suggestions?
2: I have 5 other cats, so to make life easier I need to start feeding everyone the same wet food. I've learned that friskies classic and some fancy feast is good for diabetic cats - so will they also work great with healthy cats as well? According to the vets warnings - it's this type of food that can health problems - so I buy Hill's at $45 a case - it is is far too much!
3: Yes, you are right....the vet is pushing the AlphaTracker for monitoring - they said it is more accurate than one's made for people. Is this true? The AlphaTracker costs $79 and the strips are $75 for 100. I believe this is on the high side, right?
I'll do what is best for Buddha - just wanting to ask you wise-women.
Thanks again!

 

Thanks Manxcat - I know what syringes to order now That helps a lot!

 

If 8 and 8 works for you most of the time for insulin shots, then I'd go with that. There are always going to be days here and there where things have to be changed - you do have options with those. If your schedule is reasonably flexible, you can cover a late shot by doing 2 shots 18 hours apart instead of 12. Or if you can shoot at 11 again the following morning, you can work the time back gradually to 8 by 15 minutes per shot. The other option is to skip Sunday night's shot entirely. A lot depends on your schedule over the following few days, but a lot of us have had to skip an occasional shot due to prior arrangements and most cats get back on track after that really quickly.

You can absolutely feed all the cats the same food - it is definitely healthy for all of them. Time to debunk a few food myths I think!! Most vets are not dietitians. So they're as prone to falling for the hard-sell from the prescription food companies as anyone else. My vet said they were going to ask "their" dietitian about food for Rosa and then recommended the Hills diabetic diet. When I questioned them a bit further, I found out that "their" dietitian is actually the dietitian at Hills Science - I think this is a common problem. What else were they going to recommend except their ridiculously priced (and too high in carbs) prescription food? People, including vets (and on this I think they should know better) are often put off by there being meat by-products and organ meat in the commercial cat food. But that's our "icky" factor kicking in - cats are designed to eat the whole of their prey - fur, skin, bones, organs...the whole lot. So finding there is organ meat or skin in a commercial cat food might be off-putting to us but it is exactly what a cat needs! And that goes for all cats, not just diabetic cats. We switched all of our cats over (apart from our housemate's 2 - he refuses to switch away from dry food and I can't really control that) to Friskies. That included taking our CKD kitty off her prescription food (which she hated anyway - she'd steal anything she could rather than eat it) as well. They're all doing really well on it - more energy, better fur condition. And our CKD kitty's recent bloodwork came back better than ever!! There are some people on here I think who use the prescription diets, but most of us don't - they're too expensive and they just don't work any better (and maybe not even as well) as the commercial food as long as you buy the low carb versions.

The Alphatrak is a crazy price and isn't going to do a better job than one of the cheaper human glucometers. There is a difference in the readings from the 2 (the human glucometer will read a bit lower), but it's like comparing Celsius and Fahrenheit - both are right, you just have to know which one you're working with! You, as so many of us have, will do just as well with one of the ReliOn meters or similar. My ReliOn Confirm cost around $16 and the test strips come in around $40 for 100 - and you can buy them at a discount online from ADW too. If I remember right, the ReliOn Prime costs about $1 more for the meter, but the strips are cheaper so you might want to see what your local Walmart has and work out which one you think you want to use.

I'm glad you've been able to figure out which syringes to buy - it's not always easy to know, so please keep asking questions whenever there's anything you're not sure about!

 

Welcome Penelope and handsome Buddha,
Despite what your vet says, you really don't need to use the AlphaTrak meter. The test strips are outrageously expensive, literally about $1.00 each. I've switched to a human meter because of that. @BJM has a signature link on Glucometer Notes that should be very helpful. Generally, the range for human meters is about 30-40% less than the range for a pet meter. I did about 50 tests with both meters and my human meter averages 32% less than my AlphaTrak. It's kind of like comparing Fahrenheit to Celsius - both systems are correct, you just need to know which you're using.

http://catinfo.org/ is a great site for feline nutrition info. Basically, you want to pay attention to amount of carbs, lower is better. There are many members on this site who will be better at explaining how to figure that out than me, but there are also several helpful food lists around. I believe there are links on the Catinfo site.

When I first joined in January, I learned a lot just by reading questions other people posted and if you scroll thru other 'Introduction' posts you'll find a lot of great information. The community is here is incredibly knowledgeable and helpful.

Joan

 

I am owned by two other cats besides sugar Lulu, one being a kitten (8 months old) and they`re all on wet food now. The only difference is Coco the kitten eats more than the other two, as growing kittens need more food. They are all just as happy and spunky, maybe more so, as they were on dry. And Coco is just as mischievous and full of beans as ever, as kittens are wont to be.

My vet actually recommended the Accu Chek Aviva monitor -- I got it for free when I bought 100 testing strips. Check with your pharmacy, they may offer the same deal as it is a manufacturer`s promotion (I saw it on Accu Chek`s website: https://www.accu-chek.ca/ca/circleo...rce=klick&utm_medium=sem&utm_campaign=opt1114. I didn`t want to wait for the coupon to arrive in the mail, so asked my pharmacist at Costco and he gave me the meter free when I bought the 100 strips. Mind you, the test strips are not cheap. Others on here may have some good suggestions for reasonably priced meters and strips.

btw I feed Friskies and FF pates and feel comfortable with these cat foods. I keep some of the gravy blends on hand just in case Lulu`s BG level goes too low and needs something to boost. But I don`t feed gravy blends as meals, I only feed pates.

 

Ack, I sent you the link to the Canadian Accu Chek website, I`m sure the U.S. has the same deal...but if not, you might want to pop across the border and pick one up (assuming you choose to get an Accu Chek) -- and you`ll get it cheaper than I did because your $ is worth more up here.

 

My Glucometer Notes are in my signature, as mentioned above. The numbers come in part from international feline diabetes expert Dr Rand of the University of Queensland.
Also check out the Secondary Monitoring Tools for additional assessments you can make to assess your cat.

 

Day 3 - Yesterday was a difficult day- new diagnosis, learning curve, getting supplies, plus sadly I picked up the remains of Kwamie -a neighbor's dog whom I've come to love.
I can honestly say with all the highs and lows with our animal friends - my life would not have nearly as much meaning or purpose without them! <3

I'm giving my 4th injection today - I worry each time if the needle actually went through his thick skin - I can't feel anything wet - not that 2 units is detectible. I can't wait to get the 3/10 syringes so I can actually see the the 2 units on the syringe!

I got both Friskies and FF Classic - slowly adding it to their current dry food to avoid upset tummies - except my kitties are gobbing up the Friskies - saying, "Finally some food I like!"

I am going to be brave and start switching Buddha over too - before I do the first "Curve" with the vet. I want the reading to be based off of the long-term food he will be eating. Any thoughts?

Yes, April - I'd love your help - I need to get comfortable with testing.

 

It really sounds as though you're making great progress already. And if your kitties like the wet food, that's a major hurdle overcome - so many dry food addicts take a long time to be persuaded that wet food is a good thing!

You'll find that 2 units would actually cause a wet spot in Buddha's fur so if you're not feeling anything wet, he's getting the shots. And yes, I'm more than happy to help. The only days I can't do are today (one of the cars is in the shop and my husband needs the other one for work) and Sunday because we're out of town - unfortunately it's a slightly busier week than usual for us. Other than that, name your day (doesn't have to be this week at all if you're busy) and we'll work out a time we can both do. The testing is really very easy once you get used to it but having someone show you how does make a difference - there's only so much a video can do to teach you what works on your cat.