Simba OTJ trial Day 1 BG 78

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Jennifer R., Jan 3, 2020.

  1. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    So Simba is on the OTJ trial, officially starting today because yesterday was hectic. Will update his spreadsheet once I post this,
     
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  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Keeping our paws crossed for a successful OTJ trial. Here's hoping that now that insulin depot with using lantus is drained and Simba keeps getting those 'greens' on all the preshot tests for the next 14 days.

    Remember, you'll need to test again if the pre-shot test is in the blue range or higher on your SS (spreadsheet).

    Not this morning though. That BG of 78 is wonderful!
     
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  3. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    Test again without feeding or after feeding?
     
  4. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    So for the PMBG (evening blood glucose) test this evening, no food for 2 hours before.

    Yes, Simba can and should eat after the PMBG (and the AMBG in the morning). Feed normally.

    For any additional tests after that in the same 12 hour cycle (period), doesn't matter if you have fed. We want to see whatever the BG reading is at that point in time.

    Seeing a +3 BG reading can let us see if his body is producing some insulin on it's own. You'll only need to do those additional tests at the +3 IF the AMBG/PMBG falls above the green numbers on the SS. (In the blue, yellow, red, black colors).

    Here are some old notes I have on doing an OTJ trial. It's been many years since I did this for Wink, but instructions are still good. If on Lantus or Levimir, depot has to drain first before trial starts.

    Here are the instructions for an OTJ trial:
    1. Test at your normal AMPS and PMPS times. Feed multiple small meals throughout the day as much as possible (smal meals are less likely to overwhelm a newly functioning pancreas). The morning test is now called the AMBG. The evening test is now called the PMBG.
    2. If your cat is green (0-99 mg/L human meter, 0-130 mg/L pet meter, 0-5.5 mmoL) at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time, just feed small meals and go about your day.
    3. If the numbers are blue or higher (100-199 human meter, 130-230 pet meter, 5.5-11 mmoL), feed a small meal and test again after about 3 hours. Food raises BG's. So if the number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!
    4. After 2 weeks, if everything is looking good, we have a party! And boy, do we party hearty.[​IMG]
    Sometimes, the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support by starting the cat with a tiny dose of insulin again. I had to do that with Wink. We simply start the cat back on a tiny dose of insulin to support the pancreas with healing for a bit longer. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to be safe now then sorry later that you rushed it. With just a little more time we will probably get that strong remission we are looking for.
     
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  5. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Happy Day 1
    Go Simba!:D:D:D
     
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  6. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    Thanks!
     

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  7. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Didn't see a post for Simba today, so went and checked his SS. That 91 this morning 1/4/2020 was good!

    Did you get a BG test last evening? Did not see a number in the PMPS column for 1/3/2020.

    We like to see a test both AM and PM, because the BG readings can vary so much day and night. Even during an OTJ trial. Or especially during an OTJ trial to see if the numbers stay in that normal range.
     
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  8. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    I updated it, also realized that it was 93, not 91 (unless I noted it wrong in the logbook).
     
  9. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    Just to be clear I only test at the AM/PM shot times, before I feed him, unless he tests over 99 at those times, correct?
     
  10. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes. That is correct.

    All good numbers so far. OTJ trial is looking good. 1/5/2020 will be day 3 of the OTJ trial. Keep in those greens Simba!
     
  11. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    Would a single can of Fancy Feast qualify as a small meal, when he's 12.6 pounds and thus needs about 4 cans per day? I have been feeding him 1 can at his Pre-shot time, 1 can at +3, one can around +8, and another at his PM pre-shot time.
     
  12. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    I would not call 3 oz a small meal. 1.5 oz, yes I'd call that a small meal.

    Wondering where you come up with the 4 cans of FF (Fancy Feast) or 12 ounces of food a day?
    Does he not want to eat more than 3 oz of food at a time?
    Would you say his current weight is his ideal weight? (for most cats it's around 10-12 pounds)
    You've probably seen a chart like this at your vet's office, for assessing a cat's weight and condition

    [​IMG]

    ECID. (Every Cat is Different) When my Wink first came into my home, he would eat up to 12 ounces a day. But that amount of food gradually reduced to about 5.5 to 6.5 ounces a day. He was still unregulated in the beginning so was always starving. He lost weight on the canned food diet during the first couple of months (a bit too fast of a weight loss) so then he gained some back over the subsequent couple of months when he went into remission.

    Your cat may need more or less food to maintain weight. If Simba is too thin, then a bit more food for a while would be good. If he starts to gain too much weight, less food. Good idea to check his weight once a week at home. You probably have a scale at home, so hold him in your arms, step on the scale, note number, let Simba get down, and see what your weight is. Subtract to get difference. Not as precise as the scale at the vets office, but close enough to see a general trend. It's what I do with my CKD kitty.

    After remission, I wanted to keep a close eye on his food intake and weight, so I developed and kept a spreadsheet for each month to track him on an ongoing basis. Wanted to never have the neuropathy happen again, as that is so, so painful. Find what works for you.
     
  13. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    I was going by the feeding guide on the can, which said 1 can per 3 to 3 1/2 pounds of body weight, and he is 12 pounds 5 ounces. Was that incorrect?
    He begs for food a lot even with that much. When I talked to the staff at the shelter where we found him, she said he had been seized by the city from a hoarder, so I can imagine the diabetes along with that situation probably combined to habituate him to begging.
     
  14. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    The vet said his weight was in the ideal range, by the way. His hips and ribs are fairly easy to feel but don't stick out
     
  15. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    I thought the begging had got much better

    Are you adding some water to his food ? That will help fill him up.
    I feed my cats (neither is diabetic) at breakfast, lunch, dinner and bedtime. They get a raw diet and I weigh them periodically as I don’t want them to get overweight.
    I’m sure part of Simba behaviour is because of his past, poor baby.

    Cat food companies often overstate the amount of food needed. Let Simba’s weight be your guide. My Harry is heavier than Clover but she needs more food to maintain her weight than Harry who puts weight on easily.

    Do you think it would help if you gave some smaller meals (mixed with small amount water) more often? Then he mightn’t feel the need to beg. I’d also give him some of the allocation at night.
     
  16. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    His begging was better, then got worse again, but still isn't as bad as it was. It doesn't help that my husband seems to think he's starving. I will try adding water. I tried it for a bit and it didn't seem to help, but I could try again. Should I get a scale to weigh him?
     
  17. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Do you have human scales? I weigh the cats by holding them and weighing us then weighing myself and subtracting that from the weight of both of us.
     
  18. Jennifer R.

    Jennifer R. Member

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    Dec 20, 2019
    I used to do that with dogs, but is it accurate down to the ounce? Mine is digital, but I think it only has pounds.
     
  19. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 21, 2015
    Mine has grams and is accurate. Main thing is it doesn’t change.
     

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