Skinky update. Tooth issues.

Hi All,
I have a Skinky update. We went to a new vet today who found what looks like a very inflamed, possibly infected upper tooth on the side of her face which is swollen. I'm sure this is contributing to her discomfort and why she isn't eating. I bought a cat dental cleaning set, but of course it's too painful for her. Does anyone have any suggestions for dental vets in the NYC area? I"m getting ridiculous costs just for cleaning and exam. Humane Society does not do dental xrays.

She still might have a tumor of some sort. Blood work will come back and hopefully give an indication of how treatable this is, but in the meantime, as you know, I"ve been hoping to at least get her to eat. Anti-nausea and app stims aren't working, probably because of the pain.

I think I might have to travel a bit to find something affordable for her, and am willing to do that, if I can. I think the nearest Vet School is in Philadelphia, not sure what their prices are. So any feedback input would be appreciated...!

She's still kicking. Sweet. Weak.

 

Where I am, the two place I would recommend are equal distances from me, and one is the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine and also Red Bank Veterinary Hospital in Tinton Falls NJ. J.D. went to both. I thought the UPenn Hospital Stay that J.D. had when he went into DKA was very reasonable cost wise. I chose the Red Bank Veterinary Hospital for his second Dental as he was 18 at the time and I wanted the best and got it, but paid for it too.

Did the new vet offer or give her anything for the pain? You don't want Metacam.

 

Did a web search of low cost vet's in NYC and here is the link to the list I got off YELP don't know your area well enough to know what is close to you but at least it's a place to start calling around http://www.yelp.com/search?find_des...ew York, NY#start=0&cflt=vet&attrs=ActiveDeal

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Hi Laura,

Very relieved to hear from you. Also very relieved about new vet. It sounds like you're finally getting the veterinary support that you and Skinky need.

Sending extra prayers for appetite and strength.

((((((((Laura and Skinky))))))))

 

Just what estimates did you get for exam and cleaning?

 

Does anyone know about whether a vet might be able to prescribe pain meds to help Skinky to eat? (I've no experience with dental problems in cats.)

 

Thanks everyone.. . Mel, I'll check out those links. This vet was very affordable. But very few vets have the dental xrays, seems like it is the larger places...

She got pain meds, injectable - thank goodness! Buprene I think? Ringers and they put potassium in it. I gave her toradol? something like that for pain the last couple nights. but it makes her foam at the mouth and that frightens the heck out of me. so i'm grateful for the injectable pain med.

Prices i've gotten so far...689 for cleaning and exam at a private vet. I think they said 50-75 on top of that for xray plus anesthesia. so that place isn't going to happen. ASPCA is 300 for the exam and cleaning...not counting xrays. or extractions. but i got a little gung ho and I keep forgetting about the anesthesia issue. no one really seems eager to administer anesthesia to a sick, frail, old, anorexic cat. I don't know why? (sarcasm). I cleaned out the gum area pretty well tonight with a bunch of q tips. seemed like it hurt her a lot during the first go around, and then less so w/ every subsequent wipe...so maybe clearing out some of the blood and gunk helped her pain? or she is just giving up. but I"m happy that i got some of that out. and I syringed water into the area, as much as i could access it anyhow. i'm going to go back to the cat sure, as the Hills ad is more likely to be gunky and get into her gumline. i got a little toothbrush and paste too, will try later tonight after i give her the pain meds. but the q tips seemed more effective...

tomorrow will get blood work results and take it from there...

 

Hi Laura,
I'm very glad that you found a new vet and that Skinky's tooth may be the major problem.
I hope that it can be extracted so that Skinky will heal and be able to eat again. Sending many vines and healing thoughts. Sorry, but I don't know of a dental vet in the area. Dental services are expensive. Some vet clinics have a dental specialist who comes to the clinic on a rotational schedule or when needed. Most vet offices don't have animal dental x-ray equipment.
Did the vet you saw today discuss diabetes with you?
Please post the blood work results when you get them tomorrow. There are many on this board who are very knowledgeable about interpreting blood work.

for you and scritches for Skinky,

Ella & Rusty

 

I'm glad that Skinky got something for pain. Are you able to continue giving it at home, Laura? (BTW is it called buprenex? If yes, then the drug is buprenorphine, an opiate pain medication.)

Re Toradol, that's a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). It's from the same class as ibuprofen. Maybe it might have upset Skinky's tum?

I can't put into words how relieved I am that you've found a vet who is really helping you to help Skinky, Laura. Prayers for strength, appetite, veterinary help, and healing continue.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
.

 

Ella, unfortunately I don't think her dental issue is the MAIN problem....but certainly a contributing one. Conventional thought seems to be cancer. Hopefully the blood panels, etc taken today maybe will shed light if it is a type of cancer which is responsive to treatment or not. Once again, direction was given to a CT scan, which just isn't going to happen. but one day at a time. Aine - boy I butcher these drug names, don't I? I think I have a talent for it. Yes, it is Buprenex, and I can inject it into her "hide", the way I do with the sub Q's. Haven't done it yet, they suggested this evening, so I'll do it before we sleep. she is exhausted, sleeping. I'm glad. she seems more comfortable right now sleeping than I've seen her in a while. her whiskers are twitching. I'm sure she's thinking about chasing imaginary objects.

 

every dental I've had to do involved extractions and the price tag always manages to be $1200 if not more.

I hope you find some one.....

still praying for you two....

 

Awww ... I'm beyond glad that the bupe is helping Skinky. I'm also delighted that the vet gave you a supply to administer at home. A thought: when Saoirse had both cyproheptadine and bupe in her system together, it did make her a bit drowsy/lethargic, but the drowsiness wore off after a while. Just thought I'd mention it in case Skinky might do similar.

Wishing Skinky some very, very sweet and restorative kitty dreams. Keeping you both in my prayers.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
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Hi Laura,

Just brainstorming here. When you see the vet today, maybe you could ask about whether a vitamin B12 injection might help Skinky? It has anti-inflammatory properties and I think it may help digestion, too.

Also, perhaps the vet might know where you could get some of the Royal Canin Convalescence Support powdered food recommended by Sarah (phlika29).

Keeping you both in my prayers.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
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EDITED TO ADD:

According to this article, vitamin B12 can also help with fatigue and weakness.
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Another complete liquid diet that I know is available in the US is Rebound by Vitbac it is designed to be used either for syringe or e-tube feeding. If your vet doesn't have it, it can be ordered online from Chewy.com

I've used it with great results for kitties that weren't eating on their own after dentals and when my one guy sliced his tongue on a piece of paper.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Had you considered setting up a Go Fund Me or Fund Razr account and getting permission to post the link here to help some with costs?

 

More info on B12 for you, Laura ...

TAMU - Cobalamin: Diagnostic Use and Therapeutic Considerations

From the above article:

(Emphasis mine.)

B12 definitely helped Saoirse when her inappetence was at its worst.
.

 

I ordered some Rebound by Vitbac - 3 of them..... "they" said it would take two days.....
who knows..... but it did look like something liquid-y enough to syringe feed.

I ordered one for me too to have in my cabinet for that day when Shadow won't eat anything....

 

You should really ask, Laura. Check with the webmaster.

 

Laura, my Alex had cancer in the upper jawbone. A bad tooth was how we found out about the cancer.

Prior to finding out about the tooth or the cancer, she wasn't eating well. I happened upon a method of feeding her which seemed to help. I blended her food (no added liquids) until the consistency was almost like a smooth & heavy whip cream. When you don't add liquids to the mixture it won't run all over the place. In other words, it wasn't messy (Alex hated that) and it was easy for her to lick up rather than have to chew anything. Initially I carefully syringed the mixture into her mouth, but then I found she was happier licking small amounts at a time off the back of my hand or off a saucer I held (tilted for her to lick easily).

Two 5.5oz cans of food blended (no liquid added) made about twenty-four 10mL syringes. My goal was to get 3 ten mL syringes of blended food into her 4 times each day. Those 12 daily syringes are the equivalent of one 5.5oz can daily. I also tried to get at least 5 mL of water into her between feeding each 10 mL syringe (15 mL total of water x 4 meals a day).

Once I figured this out she ate very well, all things considered. Perhaps this might work for Skinky???

 

Hi BJM, I have a youcaring.com/skinky site...I didn't get permission to post before, not sure if that would change now...

My update at this moment...just got back w/ additional meds, specifically dexa something. steroid. and darn it I forgot to ask for copies of the freaking blood work. I know she said her calcium was high, which could be indicative of cancer, could also be indicative of the fungal infection. conventional thought seems to be she has a cancerous tumor.

Aine/ Critter Mom! As for the B12, I requested it yesterday and she got a shot. She's gotten the B12 3 times now. Helped the most the first time. I asked about getting individual syringes of it today but she said it would last two weeks...got more pain med for her too. Her SubQs have potassium, I think the doc said her potassium was w/i normal range but low. I want to see what happens with the steroid. She said I should know fairly soon (within three days) if it's going to have any effect. I'm working up the courage now to inject her. I'm just afraid she's going to have a seizure or something...she is so tiny. Doc said her sugars were elevated, but I didn't get the number....as was her urine, which I can tell has sugar in it because she's peeing all over the floor and it's very sticky. Been using the baby nose bulb and trying to get what I can from her nose.

I think my main "strategy" has been to get her to eat....after the steroid, i'm not sure what my next step will be...providing she survives the steroid. I'm very afraid of injecting it. just waiting a little bit coz i already gave her the subq's, although the doc said I could give her all three at once (pain med, steroid, and subQs) I think I feel more comfortable spacing it out at least a half hour.

 

Hi Aine, how often did you give it to Saoirse? Skinks has gotten it three times, including yesterday. i asked for more today, but doc said it would last two weeks...? She had a great boost from it the first time...didn't see too much of a boost the last two times, but then again, she's probably worse now.

 

Hi Mel! how does Rebound compare to CatSure?
Oh...slicing his tongue...ouch!

 

I just re-read my post.... I wasn't clear.

you have 3 boxes of Rebound by Vitbac coming to your house..... who knows how long the post will take....

 

I can't get that much into her. She does this awful gurling/gas noise. I don't know where it's coming from. esophagus? stomach? her nose? maybe all three, honestly it seems to emanate from more than one place. and i feel like it's hurting her. there have been times when that has gone away though, i think the more she has food in her stomach. i also don't know how much stress plays into this gurgling noise - it's not just the noise, it seems to be painful for her. so it's really difficult to get enough food into her. If I can get half a can of food and a syringe or two of either cat sure or liver shake, i'm usually pretty pleased. i vary things up and after seeing all the gunk in her gums from the Hills AD am back to catsure only for a little bit. what she did seem to like before was a little fage yogurt. I just don't know anymore how this will factor into whatever she might have going on in her stomach. I will also say that today i'm hearing less gurgling. so again, i don't how much stress and an empty stomach are playing into this. I try to give her HALF a syringe every 30 minutes if I can. sometimes one whole syringe is just too much for her....this way i'm also keeping a little something in her belly almost constantly and I think that is helping to reduce the gurgling/acid, whatever is causing that noise.

 

Aw Rhiannon - THANK YOU! You guys are SO good to us!!

 

who is the official webmaster?

 

Hi Laura,
That is a lot to keep track of! I hope you will be able to give the meds without any problems arising, and that you'll be able to get more food into Skinky. What did the vet say about giving insulin? If Skinky's blood sugar is so high that her pee is sticky and she has such volume of pee that she can't get to the litterbox, she may need to start insulin again.

We are thinking of you and your girl and hoping for a good, comfortable night for you both.



Ella & Rusty

P.s. the webmaster is Robert and Echo

 

HI Ella! It's not *that* bad...
lots of kitty saunas and now cleaning with baby bulb, anything I can get out..1/2 dose of sub q's per day, two shots of pain meds a day and now one shot of the 'roid.
I don't think her numbers have been THAT high, considering she's not regulated...low to mid 300's when at doctors, i've gotten 225 - 300 when i was home monitoring. the insulin is totally on the shelf now. still, i really am kicking myself that I forgot to get the blood work. meant to ask for it when I picked up the drugs.

I'm not sure what the deal is with the litterbox. if she hates the bathroom so much (where the saunas and syringing usually take place) that she is urinating in the kitchen because of that? or if it's that her legs are weak (she will not always squat when she pees now). doc felt it was weakness from not eating.

I still have some odanestron left and a bottle of peptic and the ceph a something app stim. those are the things i'm holding back on, as I don't want to much in my little 5.5 pound bundle of toughness. she got a shot of cerenia yesterday too. but at one point if she starts to show ANY interest in food, or if the gurgling subsides more, I might try to introduce some/all of the above back into her little system...

 

The rebound is a complete diet for an adult cat that can't eat or won't eat on their own, the Catsure is more a milk replacement and really I think is meant more for orphan kittens a lot like KMR. The Rebound is actually chicken flavored so once she starts feeling better she can drink it on her own as well. When Autumn broke off one of her fangs and it impaled the roof of her mouth she wouldn't eat even soupy canned food but she would lick up the Rebound like it was manna from heaven.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Thank you Mel. Geez, you have quite the stories....! Chicken flavor would be good for her. I might make another batch of the liver shake for her too...

 

Hi Laura,

Saoirse had 1 B12 injection every week for several weeks. To the best of my understanding it takes time for the body to build up its store again, especially when a cat isn't getting enough nutrients.

I would suggest that you test very regularly for ketones, Laura. Saoirse has not had any steroid treatment since she was diagnosed, but my understanding from many, many posts I have read here is that steroids can elevate blood glucose levels. Perhaps more experienced members could confirm this, please?
.

 

PS...

Again I say how relieved I am that you are finally getting the veterinary support you and Skinky need.

Keeping up the prayers for you both here,

((((Laura and Skinky))))
.

 

I would second a suggestion for a gofundme page or at least a link to the current funding site. I know I would like to help and you have so many people here pulling for you and Skinky. The prayer circle for your situation is bigger than you know.

 

Laura

I know you are struggling to find a vet willing to do a dental on her since she is so weak and frail right now, but if you find one that you can afford perhaps telling them that you are aware of the risks for putting her under in her current state, so you would be willing to sign a waive stating that, and should something happen to her while she is under you would not hold them liable. Because right now it sounds like you are kind of in a catch 22, they don't want to put her under to pull the tooth because she is so weak, and the tooth is what maybe is at least playing a major part of why she isn't eating so getting food into her is difficult to get her to regain enough strength to get the tooth pulled. Just throwing out ideas.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Thank you RobinCat! I did what Robert suggested, it's under my profile avatar...Not sure though how many people would think to click on that to see?

But it's youcaring.com/skinky

Thank you! and keep those prayers coming....

 

So here's my update for today...
I think the dexa steroid did help. Her eye was a little less swollen this morning...and she didn't pee on the bed. she made it to the floor in the kitchen! (slight sarcasm). She even had a small, but normal bowel movement last night. I was so happy.

However...she seemed a little weird late morning, hind legs were REALLY giving out on her. Took her BG and it was 497. she got two small watered down syringes of hills' AD into her before i took the BG. i gave her i believe .25 of insulin, latnus. (the first small line after the first big line on the needle...?). tooke her BG a little while later it was 380. I was very afraid coz i had a doctors appt that i couldn't cancel. anyhow, just took it now and it is 286. i tried syringing friskies salmon pate, something w/ flavor for a change, she will have none of it. she still seems a little out of it. i have a call into the vet to check on what he suggests for insulin, given the meds she is on. i'm almost tempted to give her a little .25 now. my main concern is and has been giving her insulin where she is barely eating... or drinking

as for the dentist, i go back and forth. looked at her tooth again, i think it looks better, but i think she needs the xray, i can't tell if there's something going on w/ the gumline adjacent to the canine tooth, so i think just pulling it isn't going to resolve things. i do notice that she isn't licking anymore. even if i put a drop of fage yogurt on her mouth, she'll just walk around with it on her mouth. i put a bit of vaseline on her lips, (for constipation), she'll just walk around with it on her mouth. could that be indicative of something going on orally? all the vets keep pushing is a ct scan, a ct scan, a ct scan. this vet thought that maybe tumors have grown in her throat, and that's why she doesn't like to swallow. but she was doing pretty good last night swallowing the syringed food.

she's 5.5 lbs now.

 

I'm glad you gave her some insulin. The last thing she needs is ketones. Do you have test strips to check for ketones? I think you could just dip them in the pee on the kitchen floor if it was fresh.
Lantus works best when given every 12 hours. If you gave her the insulin at the first small line after the first big line, it sounds like you gave her 0.50 units.
I would encourage you to keep syringing food into her, even it's a bit every half hour.
I've heard that you can try increasing the syringe food slowly.
Good Luck with your Skinky. I'm glad her eye looks a little less swollen.

 

Maybe put the link in your signature.

Editing your Signature

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name,
cat's name,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.

 

Hi Everyone - I am freaking out a bit over the steroids/insulin issue.
Her numbers today:
(gave her steroid last night)
497 at 9:50 am
(administered small amt of lantus - I think .25 -- the very first small line after the big line. )
380 at 10:14 am
286 at 1:04 pm
321 at 8:00 pm

I just administered her steroid again and I am freaking out...because she doesn't eat and I suspect her sugar is going to be up again. i'm trying to get some catsure into her, but not sure how much of this cat sure to get into her before i give her the insulin shot tonight at 10 pm. plus, she won't have a lot of food in her stomach before the insulin shot.

lastly, i can't emphasize enough how much I suck at taking her BG. She is very difficult and if I don't get a good reading right away, she starts to freak w/ subsequent tries. I do the warm rice ball, try for the 'sweet spot' etc. any other suggestions would be welcomed..

 

Are you using the lancing device or free handing it with just the lancet? I have a big strong guy that is difficult to test, thankful he's in remission now, but I still test him like I did when he was on insulin just to keep him in practice..lol But I've nicknamed him the 8 second ride, because if I don't get a test in 8 seconds it's going to be a 30 minute chase and conquer. But with him, I can't use the device because he hates the click, so I free hand it. To free hand you want to go in at about a 45 degree angle, and slide the lancet in like you're trying to pick out a splinter.

Also some cats bleed better on one ear over the other, Autumn only really bleeds well on her right ear, her left ear has scar tissue so it is harder to get to bleed, so we just use her right ear.

Try different spots on the edge of the ear, some bleed better in one spot than another. Autumn it's the tip, Cassanova the side towards his head and Maxwell who has big bat wing ears it is right above the little double fold triangle of skin on the outside of his ear.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

free hand, with an ultra fine lancet..

 

With the steroid on board, it is likely to be safe to continue giving her the 0.25 units of insulin, if not 0.5 units, even if she doesn't eat, because the glucose is elevated. The insulin will help bring the glucose down and may trigger hunger, too.

 

Thinking of you and Skinky tonight, Laura. I hope you will have a good night. Check in with you tomorrow. I'm trying to figure out your financial-help page. They say they use PayPal, but there is no PayPal box to check.
Hugs and scritches,

Ella & Rusty

 

Hi Laura,

Following on from BJ's post, the little bit of insulin will help Skinky to better use the nutrients she is managing to get down - another positive.

On testing, the ultra-fine lancet could be your bugbear. Especially when cats ears are new to testing, thicker gauge lancets (lower number = thicker) can make getting a sample droplet easier. I'm sorry that I don't know what gauge numbers to recommend, but I have seen people here recommend lancets that are marked as suitable for human 'alternative site' testing. (Please could more experienced members confirm whether this is correct.)

Skinky's ears haven't been tested much so far. As you keep testing, more capillaries will grow at the test sites on each ear and that will make getting samples much easier.

When you get a chance, Laura, if you post details of the type of syringes you're using, experienced members here should be able to confirm to you the dose that you're measuring.

Keeping you both in my prayers.

((((Laura and Skinky))))
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